The liberals' official hostility to religion takes a strange new turn

[Foxfyre]

Unless the exclusion of all holidays was done just because it had to be in order to be able to shut out Christmas.

Except that no other holiday is excluded. Just Christmas. And only Christmas in the House. The Senators can wish their constituents a Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or whatever the heck they wish to wish. That's what makes it so nuts.

Look at what the article quoted:

Members are unable at the current time to use official resources to record holiday greetings, post on social media/website, or send to constituents in franked mail or e-communications.

Member’s Congressional Handbook: GREETINGS-

Expenses related to the purchase or distribution of greetings, including holiday celebrations, condolences, and congratulations for personal distinctions (wedding anniversaries, birthdays, etc.), are not reimbursable.”

Franking Manual:

4(a). Example of Nonfrankable Items
-Birthday, anniversary, wedding, birth, retirement or condolence messages and holiday greetings are prohibited.”

You may make reference to the season as a whole using language along the lines of 'Have a safe and happy holiday season.' It may only be incidental to the piece rather than the primary purpose of the communication."

It doesn't single out Christmas, it applies to all holidays. In fact, if you go read the manual directly, you'll notice this isn't a new thing, but the first time they prohibited it was back in the '70s. Also, the reason it applies to the House and not the Senate is because each body appoints its own committee members and operates how it chooses to.

I'm just going by what the guys in Congress were saying about it this morning. They are not allowed to include Merry Christmas on their routine message, either snail mailed or emailed. But they can include a routine mailing with Happy New Year. The ruling does require, and I have no problem with this, that they can't send personal condolences or greetings to people on the Taxpayers dime. We are talking about their regular communication to all their constituents in this context.

Now if the Congressman I was listening to this morning was wrong about that, so be it. But he seems to be pretty much up on the rules for franking privileges.

 

[Liability]

You'd think 'hostility to religion' would mean something like government ordered burnings of religious texts, the seizing of the money and land belonging to religious organizations, religious leaders being jailed. You know, actual hostility. Not crying over a government official not being allowed to use a specific religious holiday greeting.

Jesus died, not for your sins, but so you can whine like a spoiled brat when people don't bend over for your preferred religion.

YOU would think if only you could. Sadly, you can't.

Hostility to religion isn't some limited little concept.

It can manifest itself in a whole variety of ways.

Forbidding Congress-critters from even intoning a harmless sign-off in a constituent letter because it is loosely associated with "religion" is an example of that whether YOU happen to agree or not, Wojahowitz.

First amendment, first amendment, first amendment. Christmas is still a Christian holiday despite the general secularization of it, and we do have people in this country who don't celebrate it.

Christians believe that Jesus came to die for our sins. MY religion is hardly the point, you ignorant nitwit. I'm not even particularly religious. But noting the irrationality of liberals' general hostility to religion doesn't constitute "whining," you tool.

It is simply an observation that the irrational hostility keeps manifesting itself AS irrational time and time again in new and increasingly petty ways.

You can keep calling hostility, but that doesn't make it so. I'm not sure how not allowing specific holiday greetings, but allowing happy holidays is irrational hostility towards religion, so much as making sure everyone is included and acknowledging that not everyone celebrates the same holiday you do.

I'm pretty sure there are people of various faiths the world over who see more hostility daily than a simple change in a card from their representative.

You sound old, senile and daft. 1st amendment is Free Speech and freedom of religion (which is both personal right and government prohibition). Repeating "first amendment" as you do is just gibberish.

We all already know that Christmas is a Christian holiday, nimrod. Irrelevant. Wishing a constituent a "Merry Christmas" STILL has no relationship to the state establishing any religion or prohibiting anybody from the free exercise of their respective religions.

Me calling it "hostility" doesn't make it so. No shit, stupid. YOUR idiotic and dishonest denial doesn't make it any less true, either, dimwit. It is hostility not because I say so but because that's what it is.

Who honestly gives a flying fuck if a Congress-critter wishes me or you or anybody else a Merry Christmas? Only those assholes like Dummbell and Raving Dipshit who preach their dislike of the religion or religious expression. Get over your stupid selves.

And your final "point" is also trite and useless. Yes yes. Lots of folks have received much more overt displays of hostility to religion. So what? This isn't a relativity contest, moron. That folks in some lands have been tortured and killed over religion is not evidence that there isn't a liberal hostility to religion or religious expression here and now. It aint as dramatic, but that doesn't mean it isn't hostility.

Wojahowitz, you need to snap out of your coma old man.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Use your fingers for something other than picking your nose. Turn the pages of a history book.

This new wingnut tactic of never backing up anything they say is rather annoying.

Do you know how to use the search function in your browser?

I just did, and now you look stupid. Just sayin........................

If you want to prove that New Year's Day is celebrated as a Christian holiday in the US, by all means, let's hear it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Sounds to me that it's not a problem with Christmas it's a problem with wishing them a happy holiday, no matter what the holiday.

Seriously the fact that New Year's is included means that this has shit to do with religion.

Unless the exclusion of all holidays was done just because it had to be in order to be able to shut out Christmas.

Except that no other holiday is excluded. Just Christmas. And only Christmas in the House. The Senators can wish their constituents a Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or whatever the heck they wish to wish. That's what makes it so nuts.

That is false. You're an idiot.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Unless the exclusion of all holidays was done just because it had to be in order to be able to shut out Christmas.

Now we're just guessing their intentions.

As are you.

If they are concerned (and they are) about the use of tax dollars when the a government representative dares to use a term or phrase that touches on religion, then there ought to be no fucking reason to worry about a Congressman wishing a constituent a Happy New Year. And yet, the Franking Committee "forbids" that too on pain of not getting the paid-for mailing?

Please. That's just a moronic interference with free speech if they can point to no "reason" for it. Accordingly, logic dictates that they MUST have some kind of "reason" for it. And it's clear. They want to include that as a thin pretext to "cover" their true agenda. No reference to religion.

Which takes us back to the real issue. If a Representative's statement doesn't risk any establishment of any State religion and it doesn't risk the interference of any person's free exercise of his or her own religion, then there is no valid basis to be concerned with a "violation" of the First Amendment.

They can't use it to wish someone happy birthday either.

This has nothing to do with religion. Anyone who thinks it does is an imbecile.

 

[Cervantes22]

Unless the exclusion of all holidays was done just because it had to be in order to be able to shut out Christmas.

Now we're just guessing their intentions.

As are you.

If they are concerned (and they are) about the use of tax dollars when the a government representative dares to use a term or phrase that touches on religion, then there ought to be no fucking reason to worry about a Congressman wishing a constituent a Happy New Year. And yet, the Franking Committee "forbids" that too on pain of not getting the paid-for mailing?

They never mentioned religion as their motivation that was you taking a wild guess. I would think the fact that they include non religious holidays as evidence they aren't doing this because of religion.

Please. That's just a moronic interference with free speech if they can point to no "reason" for it.

They're free to send the letters, they're not free to use taxpayer money to send them. Free speech does not guarantee the right to free mail.

Accordingly, logic dictates that they MUST have some kind of "reason" for it. And it's clear.

They're completely pointless when it comes to running the state, so the state shouldn't pay for them.

 

[Jarhead]

Throwing this out there for debate. Please dont make it an Obama thing for it is not. It is, in my eyes, an issue of hypocricy in government as it pertains to the whole "Merry Christmas" thing.

Last night I watched on HGTV a special regarding the decorating of the White House for the holidays.

Every room is decorated with a Christmas theme based on the colors of the room and based on the view seen from each rooms windows. To be frank, they do an outstanding job. A Christmas Tree in every room; decorations all around. It appears to be quite expensive...but my complaint isnt the money.

I have no doubt the President does not pay for this himself and I would not expect him to.

But why is it OK to spend tax payer dollars on Christmas decorations for the white house but not OK to spend tax payer dollars on postage and letterhead with the words "Merry Christmas" in the correspondence?

I think it is a good debate and something tells me that if we all put pur partisan glasses aside, we may actually have some agreement here.

Thoughts?

 

[Steelplate]

If only the Left could carry out the 'Christian Holocaust' they've fantasized about for so many years. America would be a Utopia. Just kidding,obviously i'm exaggerating...Or am I?

Fuck you. You aren't a Christian... not even close asshole. Not with shit like that.

 

[Care4all]

Looks like the PC police have threatened members of the House of Representatives against wishing constituents a "Merry Christmas," if they want to do so in a mailing paid for with tax dollars.

Members who submit official mailings for review by the congressional franking commission that reviews all congressional mail to determine if it can be "franked," or paid for with tax dollars, are being told that no holiday greetings, including "Merry Christmas," can be sent in official mail.

"I called the commission to ask for clarification and was told no 'Merry Christmas.' Also told cannot say 'Happy New Year' but can say 'have a happy new year' – referencing the time period of a new year, but not the holiday," said a Hill staffer who requested anonymity.

* * * *

Congressmen can't say 'Merry Christmas' in mail | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

At this point, I'd ask "are you fucking kidding me?" But why bother? I already know they're serious.

Seriously absurd.

actually, in these times of limited tax monies, and with our huge deficits, I don't think congress should be spending our tax dollars on Holiday specific cards.....we just can't afford it and us tax payers should NOT have to pay for their Christmas etc cards....they should use their own campaign funds to send their own cards out.....

people....citizens are really hurting right now while we ponder taking away the help we are able to give them and spend that money on Christmas cards?????????? sheesh...GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT people!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Sounds to me that it's not a problem with Christmas it's a problem with wishing them a happy holiday, no matter what the holiday.

Seriously the fact that New Year's is included means that this has shit to do with religion.

Unless the exclusion of all holidays was done just because it had to be in order to be able to shut out Christmas.

Except that no other holiday is excluded. Just Christmas. And only Christmas in the House. The Senators can wish their constituents a Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or whatever the heck they wish to wish. That's what makes it so nuts.

So according to your understanding of this,

the Republican controlled House can't say Merry Christmas, but the Democratic controlled Senate can?

So how are the liberals getting blamed for this? Other than because the OP is an idiot...

 

[Liability]

Looks like the PC police have threatened members of the House of Representatives against wishing constituents a "Merry Christmas," if they want to do so in a mailing paid for with tax dollars.

Members who submit official mailings for review by the congressional franking commission that reviews all congressional mail to determine if it can be "franked," or paid for with tax dollars, are being told that no holiday greetings, including "Merry Christmas," can be sent in official mail.

"I called the commission to ask for clarification and was told no 'Merry Christmas.' Also told cannot say 'Happy New Year' but can say 'have a happy new year' – referencing the time period of a new year, but not the holiday," said a Hill staffer who requested anonymity.

* * * *

Congressmen can't say 'Merry Christmas' in mail | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

At this point, I'd ask "are you fucking kidding me?" But why bother? I already know they're serious.

Seriously absurd.

actually, in these times of limited tax monies, and with our huge deficits, I don't think congress should be spending our tax dollars on Holiday specific cards.....we just can't afford it and us tax payers should NOT have to pay for their Christmas etc cards....they should use their own campaign funds to send their own cards out.....

people....citizens are really hurting right now while we ponder taking away the help we are able to give them and spend that money on Christmas cards?????????? sheesh...GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT people!

For God's sake. How many times does it have to get repeated? We ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT sending Christmas cards.

We are talking about the usual run-of-the-fucking-mill Congress-critters letters to their constituents.

There are separate issues here. (1) Do we really like the fact that Congress-critters can send what amounts to campaign literature on our tax dime? It's a real question, but not the one in this thread. This thread accepts (for now) the Congressional franking privilege.

(2) GIVEN the Congressional franking privilege exists for sending "important" and "official" news from a Congress-critter to his/her constituents, and GIVEN that we all fucking agree that this should not be used for the sending of Christmas cards or individual birthday cards or the like, SHOULD there be a Franking Committee "rule" that somehow prevents a Congress-critter from sending a standard run-of-the-mill letter to his/her constituents IF that letter includes a sign-off wishing the constituents a Merry Christmas?

The Franking Committee has an actual legitimate set of rules for a rational coherent valid reason. We really don't want our Congress-critters using their franking privilege for personal reasons. Thus, they shouldn't send out Christmas cards and they shouldn't send out birthday cards or send a payment to the phone company on the public dime. THAT'S why the Franking Committee rules exist.

Where the fucking Franking Committee has crossed a line is when they decide that a SIGN-OFF in a Congressperson's letter to his/her constituents wishing a "Merrry Christsmas" is somehow verboten! Fuck them and fuck their notions of "proper" censorship. Such a wish is not their concern. It's between the Congress-critter and his/her constituents. If I am displeased with a letter from my Congressional Representative, I know how to address the matter. And I do vote.

 

[Woyzeck]

Except that no other holiday is excluded. Just Christmas. And only Christmas in the House. The Senators can wish their constituents a Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or whatever the heck they wish to wish. That's what makes it so nuts.

Look at what the article quoted:

Members are unable at the current time to use official resources to record holiday greetings, post on social media/website, or send to constituents in franked mail or e-communications.

Member’s Congressional Handbook: GREETINGS-

Expenses related to the purchase or distribution of greetings, including holiday celebrations, condolences, and congratulations for personal distinctions (wedding anniversaries, birthdays, etc.), are not reimbursable.”

Franking Manual:

4(a). Example of Nonfrankable Items
-Birthday, anniversary, wedding, birth, retirement or condolence messages and holiday greetings are prohibited.”

You may make reference to the season as a whole using language along the lines of 'Have a safe and happy holiday season.' It may only be incidental to the piece rather than the primary purpose of the communication."

It doesn't single out Christmas, it applies to all holidays. In fact, if you go read the manual directly, you'll notice this isn't a new thing, but the first time they prohibited it was back in the '70s. Also, the reason it applies to the House and not the Senate is because each body appoints its own committee members and operates how it chooses to.

I'm just going by what the guys in Congress were saying about it this morning. They are not allowed to include Merry Christmas on their routine message, either snail mailed or emailed. But they can include a routine mailing with Happy New Year. The ruling does require, and I have no problem with this, that they can't send personal condolences or greetings to people on the Taxpayers dime. We are talking about their regular communication to all their constituents in this context.

Now if the Congressman I was listening to this morning was wrong about that, so be it. But he seems to be pretty much up on the rules for franking privileges.

The Congressmen would be incorrect, as you plainly see from the article the OP posted. Christmas isn't singled out.

 

[Katzndogz]

They cannot say Happy New Year either, but they can say Happy January 1st to December 31st 2012.

One references a forbidden holiday, the other a period of time.

They are just so stupid it defies description.

The Congress should fight back by saying Happy December 25, 2010.

 

[Jarhead]

Yet the White House spends thousands of dollars of tax payer money to decorate each room for the Christmas Holiday.

I dont get it.

 

[Woyzeck]

YOU would think if only you could. Sadly, you can't.

Hostility to religion isn't some limited little concept.

It can manifest itself in a whole variety of ways.

Forbidding Congress-critters from even intoning a harmless sign-off in a constituent letter because it is loosely associated with "religion" is an example of that whether YOU happen to agree or not, Wojahowitz.

First amendment, first amendment, first amendment. Christmas is still a Christian holiday despite the general secularization of it, and we do have people in this country who don't celebrate it.

Christians believe that Jesus came to die for our sins. MY religion is hardly the point, you ignorant nitwit. I'm not even particularly religious. But noting the irrationality of liberals' general hostility to religion doesn't constitute "whining," you tool.

It is simply an observation that the irrational hostility keeps manifesting itself AS irrational time and time again in new and increasingly petty ways.

You can keep calling hostility, but that doesn't make it so. I'm not sure how not allowing specific holiday greetings, but allowing happy holidays is irrational hostility towards religion, so much as making sure everyone is included and acknowledging that not everyone celebrates the same holiday you do.

I'm pretty sure there are people of various faiths the world over who see more hostility daily than a simple change in a card from their representative.

You sound old, senile and daft. 1st amendment is Free Speech and freedom of religion (which is both personal right and government prohibition). Repeating "first amendment" as you do is just gibberish.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." That means prohibiting a religion, or favoring one.

We all already know that Christmas is a Christian holiday, nimrod. Irrelevant. Wishing a constituent a "Merry Christmas" STILL has no relationship to the state establishing any religion or prohibiting anybody from the free exercise of their respective religions.

It shows preference to one, and putting it in a bulk letter to your constituents is ignoring those who don't celebrate Christmas or aren't Christian. They'd be in the same kind of wrong if they sent one that only said Happy Hanukkah or Happy Kwanzaa.

Me calling it "hostility" doesn't make it so. No shit, stupid. YOUR idiotic and dishonest denial doesn't make it any less true, either, dimwit. It is hostility not because I say so but because that's what it is.

Which is insulting to people across the globe who actually suffer for their beliefs and not some imagined snub from a Congressional holiday letter.

Who honestly gives a flying fuck if a Congress-critter wishes me or you or anybody else a Merry Christmas? Only those assholes like Dummbell and Raving Dipshit who preach their dislike of the religion or religious expression. Get over your stupid selves.

First amendment, first amendment, first amendment. It's called respecting the Constitution where I come from.

And your final "point" is also trite and useless. Yes yes. Lots of folks have received much more overt displays of hostility to religion. So what? This isn't a relativity contest, moron. That folks in some lands have been tortured and killed over religion is not evidence that there isn't a liberal hostility to religion or religious expression here and now. It aint as dramatic, but that doesn't mean it isn't hostility.

Wojahowitz, you need to snap out of your coma old man.

Hrm, what would those religious folks say to you equating their hostility to not being able to say your specific holiday greeting? I imagine it's not going to be very suitable for polite conversation. I think they call this a 'first world problem' these days.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Yet the White House spends thousands of dollars of tax payer money to decorate each room for the Christmas Holiday.

I dont get it.

....until the anti-American ACLU dogs figure how to rip it away........Christmas is still an official national holdiay......

 

[paulitician]

Is this ancient Rome now? Feed all the Christians to the Lions? The Left has created a pretty hostile and hateful environment for American Christians these days. It really is beginning to resemble ancient Rome's hate for Christians. This is not what America is about. It's pretty disturbing.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Is this ancient Rome now? Feed all the Christians to the Lions? The Left has created a pretty hostile and hateful environment for American Christians these days. It really is beginning to resemble ancient Rome's hate for Christians. This is not what America is about. It's pretty disturbing.

Tell ya what........the first Christian that gets fed to a lion, THEN you can bitch about this place being like Rome.

Until then?

 

[paulitician]

Is this ancient Rome now? Feed all the Christians to the Lions? The Left has created a pretty hostile and hateful environment for American Christians these days. It really is beginning to resemble ancient Rome's hate for Christians. This is not what America is about. It's pretty disturbing.

Tell ya what........the first Christian that gets fed to a lion, THEN you can bitch about this place being like Rome.

Until then?

Beginning to resemble ancient Rome. The Left is getting there. Give em time. Gotta get those bad ole Christians.

 

[Sunshine]

Is this ancient Rome now? Feed all the Christians to the Lions? The Left has created a pretty hostile and hateful environment for American Christians these days. It really is beginning to resemble ancient Rome's hate for Christians. This is not what America is about. It's pretty disturbing.

They will get their comeuppance when the muslims whom they will assist every step of the way take over!