The liberals' official hostility to religion takes a strange new turn

[Liability]

If congress members want to send out Christmas cards to people, they have the exact freedom to do so that I have. Namely, they can buy the cards with their own money and pay for the stamps with their own money.

That's freedom, baby.

They're just not free to use MY taxpayer money to do so.

The same is true for Congress regarding every other religious holiday for every other religion, isn't it? No religion is getting preferential treatment, and no religion is being unduly denied what another religion is permitted.

NEXT!

Another trite twit coming up with the bogus "Christmas Card" "example." Pathetic.

We aren't talking about Christmas Cards.

Try to smarten up.

We have been talking about the usual run of the mill Congress-critters' mailings to their constituencies. We have been talking about the sign-off at the end of such letters (sent under the franking privilege).

Dear Constituent:

I, your humble servant, have been HARD at work trying to prevent the liberal Democrat Administration from undermining your liberties and freedoms. Further, I have been hard working with the GOP majority in the House to thwart the efforts of the liberal Democrat Senate majority to cram the Marxist agenda. I have voted for ___ blah blah and blah. I co-authored a bill on yakkity yak. I co-sponsored several bills to attend to ___ this that and the other thing!

Yay me!

As the year draws to a close, much work remains to be done. Please contact me at ___congressional e-mail address ----. Tell me what concerns you. Tell me how I'm doing. Bear in mind my job is to try, where possible, to deal with the problems we face in this great land. I could always use your guidance and advice. I am here to represent YOU!

Therefore, I exhort you to --whatever! Please accept my sincere wishes for your good health and that of your loved ones. I wish you and them a very Merry Christmas.

Sincerely,

Sniveling Congresscritter
Member of Congress.

You libbie goobers actually imagine that that phrase in the sign-off constitutes a Constitutional violation.

You are such tools.

You're right. We are NOT talking about Christmas card, or birthday cards either, for that matter. Those are personal messages which are not meant for official gov't mail, paid for with taxpayer money. If you want to wish someone a happy birthday, or Merry Christmas, dig into your own pocket like everyone else does.

Once again: ignoring the point (as you just did) doesn't serve to make your would-be "rejoinder" persuasive.

If a Congress-critter insists on sending out the propaganda they regularly send out on the public dime, that money is going to be spent with or without the insertion of the phrase "Merry Christmas."

So the cost issue related to them intoning that expression is reduced to approximately ZERO!

If, at the end of one of their franked mailings which nominally addresses their intended government business reason for writing they happen to sign-off with a Merry Christmas wish, that violates NOT ONE sentence of the Constitution and not the tiniest speck of the Constitutional principle underlying the First Amendment's Religious Establishment clause.

If EVERY freaking Congress-critter signed a letter in mid-December ending with the phrase, "Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy New Year and best wishes for your health and good fortune, Allah be Praised and give Buddha a slap on his big old butt for me" I wouldn't give a rat's ass. And it would STILL be true that nothing in those words would constitute the establishment of any religion nor the prohibition of anybody's free exercise of their own religions.

 

[Foxfyre]

Further there is nothing in the Constitution that says the government cannot support religion. In fact that could certainly fall within the concept of promoting the general welfare which is why the Founders, to a man, DID support and encourage religion at pretty much all times.

The government cannot FUND religion because there is no provision in the Constitution to do that. It cannot ESTABLISH religion which it is wisely forbidden. It cannot require any person or group to subscribe to any religious belief or follow any religious tenet nor can it reward anybody for what they profess nor can it punish anybody for what they profess.

And, in my opinion, it cannot legally forbid a Congressman from wishing his constituents a Merry Christmas.

I was listening to a Congressman on TV a little while ago that was asked about this. He says, the House does monitor and strictly regulates franking privileges to ensure that these are not used for unauthorized purposes such as campaigning or other self interests of the elected official. That includes not only the snail mailed stuff, which they do very little of anymore, but also to e-mails that he sends out about once a week to inform his constituents of congressional actions and impending legislation.

Whether snail mailed or e-mailed, in the House he is not allowed to say Merry Christmas in these mailings. The Senate, however, IS allowed to say Merry Christmas. And both are allowed to say Happy New Year.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Christmas is a uniquely Christian holiday, no other religion celebrates it on their spiritual calendar.

Saying Merry Christmas on official correspondence is banned, so the solution is simple, don't do it.

 

[Liability]

Christmas is a uniquely Christian holiday, no other religion celebrates it on their spiritual calendar.

Saying Merry Christmas on official correspondence is banned, so the solution is simple, don't do it.

Saying it does NOT make Christianity the State Religion of the U.S.A.

Saying it does NOT prohibit the free exercise of any religion by anybody.

Therefore, the inclusion of that phrase in a fucking franked bit of Congressional mail to constituents does NOT violate the word or the spirit of the First Amendment's Freedom of Religion provisions.

Yes, Virginia. It is actually just that simple (at least until a bunch of whacked out judges and P.C. politicos fuck everything up with liberal orthodoxy gone mad).

 

[Foxfyre]

Christmas is a uniquely Christian holiday, no other religion celebrates it on their spiritual calendar.

Saying Merry Christmas on official correspondence is banned, so the solution is simple, don't do it.

It is banned in the House only. Not in the Senate.

Christmas is indeed a unique Christian holiday. It is also a uniquely secular holiday celebrated by most Americans of all religions and no religion. Non Christians and many "Sunday only" Christians don't even think of the religious aspects of it but focus on Santa Claus and Reindeer and Mistletoe and other symbols and traditions that few people associate with any religion whatsoever. It is a National Holiday of which anybody is free to make of it what they want it to be and which everybody is free to celebrate or not as they choose.

Merry Christmas is the standard greeting that goes with the holiday observance whether or not one is Christian or religious or sees Christmas as just another day of the year.

It is absurd to deny my Congressman or your Congressman or anybody's Congressman the ability to wish his/her constituents a Merry Christmas in the year end routine correspondence. Most or all of that correspondence is in e-mails and costs nothing more than the staffer's time to send them.

 

[SillyWabbit]

Is it me. or is it kinda weird that this topic is still active. Congressmen might put "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hanukkah" or "What-the-fuck-ever" in franked correspondence. Bluh.
That is my sentiment in regards to that.
Bluh , fucking bluh.
Hey, assholes, we are trillions in debt. We have bigger fish to fry than "Merry Christmas" being included in some mail. Jesus H. Christ, ain't there nobody with a lick of sense in this world?
Hey, I got an idea, make every congressman walk around backwards and sing "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" on Fridays. Make 'em have food fights every Wednesday. Make 'em do entertaining shit, stuff that will make people watch C-span. If we're going to watch them bicker about nonsense, we might as well get some entertainment out of it.
What about Congressional MMA? Boehner puts a sleeper on Pelosi, or McCain gets one in the nuts from Boxer. WTF, let's see some action, damn it!

 

[koshergrl]

I watched "Morning Glory" which is about a lame morning show, that has a surge in ratings when the producer starts to make the weather guy do insanely risky stuff (for him, a fat, balding older dude) live, and allows the anchors, who despise each other, to bicker nastily as a form of "banter".

It's hilarious. I would love to see our stooges in office have to sweat a little on camera. Make them do stuff (besides getting drunk) that might make them puke. Put them in sumo wrestling garb and give them big rubber bats to biff each other with. Let them cull themselves, and we can watch!

 

[NYcarbineer]

I don't support Congressmen doing ANYTHING that can be done better or more efficiently and effectively at the local level or in the private sector. At the same time, I can accept a periodic mailing to the Congressman's constituents only advising us of actions of Congress and impending legislation and his opinion of the consequences to us of that. And if that periodic mailing happens to fall near the holidays, I have no problem with him/her wishintg anybody a Merry Christmas or any other appropriate greeting in keeping with a national holiday.

So no, nobody in the government should be sending out Christmas cards on the taxpayers' dime. But that wasn't the issue here. The issue here is whether he can conclude his remarks with a Merry Christmas. And I think it is absurd that he cannot.

He can't say Happy New Year's either. What's wrong with drawing the line where no one can make any case for claiming that they've crossed it?

Because you have hard feelings and nitpicking and stupid remarks and people making a federal case out of it like you have on this thread. There should be NO LINE as to what any elected official or any private citizen may or may not say to his constituency so long as the First or any other Amendment is not violated. As saying Merry Christmas is neither coercive nor an establishment of religion of any kind, to gag a Congress person in that manner looks really sinister to those of us who already suspect some segments of society are using thought manipulation to change the culture, and not in a good way.

The government is paying for the postage did you somehow miss that??

No one is stopping them from sending out holiday greetings on their own dime.

jeezus h christ you people are ignorant.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So won't ANYONE tell me what religion New Year's Day is????

 

[koshergrl]

Oh lord, are you going to hit this thread with the same repetitious stuff over and over, too?

 

[Amelia]

So won't ANYONE tell me what religion New Year's Day is????

Catholic.

 

[SillyWabbit]

I watched "Morning Glory" which is about a lame morning show, that has a surge in ratings when the producer starts to make the weather guy do insanely risky stuff (for him, a fat, balding older dude) live, and allows the anchors, who despise each other, to bicker nastily as a form of "banter".

It's hilarious. I would love to see our stooges in office have to sweat a little on camera. Make them do stuff (besides getting drunk) that might make them puke. Put them in sumo wrestling garb and give them big rubber bats to biff each other with. Let them cull themselves, and we can watch!

Ummm. . .I'm sorry rubber bats?

 

[del]

So won't ANYONE tell me what religion New Year's Day is????

it's a catholic holy day of obligation, iirc.

i believe it's called the feast of the circumcision, which, once i found out what circumcision was, became an unending source of amusement.

for me.

my parents, not so much

 

[koshergrl]

Oh wait, styrofoam?

Put them in game shows like "Running Man"...or "The Hunger Games".

Now that would be entertainment for the masses! And you'd know they really were into "serving" if they knew they would probably die...

 

[Dot Com]

Is it me. or is it kinda weird that this topic is still active. Congressmen might put "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hanukkah" or "What-the-fuck-ever" in franked correspondence. Bluh.
That is my sentiment in regards to that.
Bluh , fucking bluh.
Hey, assholes, we are trillions in debt. We have bigger fish to fry than "Merry Christmas" being included in some mail. Jesus H. Christ, ain't there nobody with a lick of sense in this world?
Hey, I got an idea, make every congressman walk around backwards and sing "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" on Fridays. Make 'em have food fights every Wednesday. Make 'em do entertaining shit, stuff that will make people watch C-span. If we're going to watch them bicker about nonsense, we might as well get some entertainment out of it.
What about Congressional MMA? Boehner puts a sleeper on Pelosi, or McCain gets one in the nuts from Boxer. WTF, let's see some action, damn it!

Its part 'n parcel of Fox New's Bill O'Reilly "war on xmas" meme ZZZzzz

 

[SillyWabbit]

Oh wait, styrofoam?

Put them in game shows like "Running Man"...or "The Hunger Games".

Now that would be entertainment for the masses! And you'd know they really were into "serving" if they knew they would probably die...

Styrofoam? No,no,no. You're walking backwards. I was thinking more along the lines of good ol' Louisville Slugger.

 

[Cervantes22]

Looks like the PC police have threatened members of the House of Representatives against wishing constituents a "Merry Christmas," if they want to do so in a mailing paid for with tax dollars.

Members who submit official mailings for review by the congressional franking commission that reviews all congressional mail to determine if it can be "franked," or paid for with tax dollars, are being told that no holiday greetings, including "Merry Christmas," can be sent in official mail.

"I called the commission to ask for clarification and was told no 'Merry Christmas.' Also told cannot say 'Happy New Year' but can say 'have a happy new year' – referencing the time period of a new year, but not the holiday," said a Hill staffer who requested anonymity.

* * * *

Congressmen can't say 'Merry Christmas' in mail | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

At this point, I'd ask "are you fucking kidding me?" But why bother? I already know they're serious.

Seriously absurd.

Sounds to me that it's not a problem with Christmas it's a problem with wishing them a happy holiday, no matter what the holiday.

Seriously the fact that New Year's is included means that this has shit to do with religion.

 

[Amelia]

Looks like the PC police have threatened members of the House of Representatives against wishing constituents a "Merry Christmas," if they want to do so in a mailing paid for with tax dollars.

Members who submit official mailings for review by the congressional franking commission that reviews all congressional mail to determine if it can be "franked," or paid for with tax dollars, are being told that no holiday greetings, including "Merry Christmas," can be sent in official mail.

"I called the commission to ask for clarification and was told no 'Merry Christmas.' Also told cannot say 'Happy New Year' but can say 'have a happy new year' – referencing the time period of a new year, but not the holiday," said a Hill staffer who requested anonymity.

* * * *

Congressmen can't say 'Merry Christmas' in mail | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

At this point, I'd ask "are you fucking kidding me?" But why bother? I already know they're serious.

Seriously absurd.

Sounds to me that it's not a problem with Christmas it's a problem with wishing them a happy holiday, no matter what the holiday.

Seriously the fact that New Year's is included means that this has shit to do with religion.

Unless the exclusion of all holidays was done just because it had to be in order to be able to shut out Christmas.

 

[Amelia]

Wonder if 4th of July is okay.

 

[Cervantes22]

Congressmen can't say 'Merry Christmas' in mail | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

At this point, I'd ask "are you fucking kidding me?" But why bother? I already know they're serious.

Seriously absurd.

Sounds to me that it's not a problem with Christmas it's a problem with wishing them a happy holiday, no matter what the holiday.

Seriously the fact that New Year's is included means that this has shit to do with religion.

Unless the exclusion of all holidays was done just because it had to be in order to be able to shut out Christmas.

Now we're just guessing their intentions.