The most fucked in the head opinion piece I have ever read to justify criminals.

[OKTexas]

Pay a wage that Americans will work for. People want jobs and will work for reasonable wages. Saying "Nobody will do that job." is horseshit. Nobody will do that job for 5 dollars an hour under the table. Americans work all kinds of backbreaking manual labor jobs.

I’ve been through with these topics several times here in this site and in real life.
I personally know 2 farmers here in Ca and one in Arizona. They will not vote for Trump again.

What I’m telling you are real life no bullshit or horseshit. These illegals are are getting rare that they are demanding their rates nobody is getting paid $5. These farmers are willing to take any workers that apply.

You are absolutely correct. Pay wages that Americans will work. You probably talking about old timers. I still have several of them. Tough hard workers dedicated but they are getting old and retiring soon.

Let say you are willing to work at the farm picking strawberries or avocados. How much do you think are you willing to accept $16 $20?
1. How much do you think those strawberries or avocados will cost at the groceries?
2. With the heat, heavy lifting. How long are you going to last?
3. How far is your house to these farms? Are you willing to travel?
4. You probably wants break time, shoes or uniform.
5. And if you have a kid. Is your babysitting cost more?

For lousy $16 with all those factors. Will it be easier or cheaper if you just stay home or at works McDonald’s?





Here’s How Immigration Policy Impacts Your Avocados and Other Produce – Fortune

To attract workers, farmers are raising wages to well above the minimum wage, which in California is $11 per hour, especially in higher cost places like Napa, Calif. Farmers are also increasingly paying for H-2A visas for guest workers.

Tell the class why all the restaurants were crying about avocado prices when Trump threatened to put tariffs on Mexico?

.

You probably don’t even understand what that means.

It means our economy needs immigrant labor because citizens don't know how to do agriculture, and don't want to learn.

That is what we’ve telling to these morons here that we need immigrants workers.

I never plant a single plant or vegetable or crop in my life. I never clean a chicken or a cow in my life. I never cut my grass in my life. I never clean my pool in my life. I don’t even know how to turn in my rainbow vacuum.

Someone has to do it.

And you're calling other people morons. LMAO Who are you paying to do your typing for ya? You should fire them, they don't know the language.

.

.

 

[Rigby5]

Yes they were.

Wrong. If they were, they would have a visa.

Business does not hand out visa's.


Tyson Foods Indicted in Plan To Smuggle Illegal Workers

Tyson Foods Indicted in Plan To Smuggle Illegal Workers

Indictment alleges conspiracy behind recruitment, hiring of undocumented workers in Midwest

FBI Reportedly Has Fake Green Cards Given to Undocumented Immigrants Working at Trump Golf Course

Who said they did. If they were invited, they would have a visa. Tyson foods doesn't have the authority to "invite" anyone.

According to the Constitution, Tyson is exactly who is supposed to invite immigrants.
Absolutely no authority was given the federal government over immigration in the Constitution.

You've obviously never actually read the Constitution.

.

I have, and I think you are wrong.

{...
What Authority Does the U.S. Constitution Give the Federal Government Regarding Immigration? | The American View

What Authority Does the U.S. Constitution Give the Federal Government Regarding Immigration?

A – The word “immigration” does not appear in the U.S. Constitution or any of its Amendments. Article I, Section 8, Clause 4 does read, “… To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, …”. The 14th Amendment, Section 1 addresses the protection of “All persons born or naturalized in the United States,…” which extended citizenship through the States to the former slaves. The rules of immigration were reserved to the States through the 10th Amendment until the first Federal law was enacted in 1875. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled the following year that immigration regulation was an exclusive Federal responsibility. Congress established the Immigration Service in 1891, which was the first time the Federal government took an active role. Congress enacted additional quota systems after World War I in the years 1921 and 1924. The laws remained largely unchanged until the passage of the “The Immigration and Nationality Act Amendments of 1965.” Changes to admittance were made again in 1976 and 1978. “The Immigration Act of 1990″ added a category of admission based on diversity and increased the worldwide immigration ceiling.

Other changes came through the introduction of new categories of immigration and citizenship with the resettlement of refugees after World War II. “The Refugee Act of 1980” allowed the President the authority to admit refugees on an annual basis, in consultation with Congress in response to United Nations protocols in 1967 and 1969, derived from the 1951 United Nations Refugee Convention. This new legislation was the first time that our country used international standards and definitions for our immigration policies. “The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986” addressed unauthorized immigration creating two amnesty programs “legalizing” about 2.7 million people who illegally entered the country. Because illegal immigration remained a problem, “The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996” was passed to provide greater controls on the borders and reduced benefits. The last change occurred with “The Homeland Security Act of 2002” which now has consolidated authority for border protection, naturalization, customs and immigration.

 

[Rigby5]

Most or all Illegals crossing the borders are only seeking a better life.

We do not have the means to provide a better life to all who seek one. That is reality.

We have 20 millions of them that are already here.

Yes we do, and what is it costing us to have them here? We are 21 trillion in debt already you know.

Immigration, even illegal immigration, is a net multi billion dollar gain.
About all they get from us for free is school education for their children, and ER services, which they often still pay for.

No, look at all the border agents we need to keep them out. Look at what we provide to the people that get here. And what about the ones that end up in our prisons for decades? And that's not to mention the wage loss by American citizens. Then after they make money here, they ship it back over the border to their family.

Our immigration courts are tied up for years with back log cases of asylum and refugee claims. Think that's free?

Immigration whether legal or illegal is a net loss to the US. Over half of the legal immigrants here today are on welfare. That's a much higher percentage than Americans on welfare.

That is all backwards, as those expenses are all incurred by trying to keep them out.
Those expenses would not exist if we let them in instead.
NONE of the illegal immigrants are on welfare, and of the legal immigrants that get some welfare, they still produce and pay taxes far more than they receive.
That is a much LOWER percentage than non-immigrants on welfare.
{...
Immigrants Don't Drain Welfare. They Fund It.

Immigrants Don't Drain Welfare. They Fund It.
By LAURA RESTON
September 3, 2015

Republican presidential candidates who want to deport undocumented immigrants en masse, end birthright citizenship, and build a wall along the Mexican border just got some new ammunition. A report released Wednesday by the Center for Immigration Studies, an organization that advocates for reducing immigration to the United States, has concluded that 51 percent of households headed by immigrants—legal or undocumented—receive some kind of welfare. “They are creating a significant burden on public coffers,” writes Steven Camarota, the study’s author and the director of research for CIS. “By using welfare programs immigrants may strain public resources, harming taxpayers and making it more difficult to assist the low-income population already in the country.”

While that sentiment is likely to resonate with conservatives, the facts prove otherwise: Native-born Americans aren’t footing the bill for immigrants so much as immigrants are contributing to a welfare system that many of them can't take advantage of.

The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 cut back on welfare extended to immigrants. It categorized green card holders and refugees granted asylum as “qualified,” and all other immigrants—including undocumented workers and many people lawfully here in the United States—as “not qualified” and therefore ineligible for welfare. But the law stipulated that even qualified immigrants had to spend five years in the United States before they could apply for benefits like Medicaid, food stamps, or cash assistance for families with children. Since that major welfare reform, some states have responded by providing for immigrants with programs that offer health care to the children of immigrants or pregnant mothers, and a few states—like California and New York—offer nutritional or cash assistance. But those efforts are mostly limited to qualified residents, while all other immigrants are still almost universally banned from receiving welfare.

The CIS study exaggerates the number of immigrants on welfare by using households as the unit of analysis; as long as the head of household is an immigrant, they consider it an immigrant household, and Camarota counts a household “as using welfare if any one of its members used welfare during 2012.” This means that a household with an American spouse who therefore qualified for welfare could be counted as “using welfare.” The same would go for a child born in the United States to immigrant parents. If he or she received subsidized lunch at school, the whole household would be categorized as “using welfare.” As the Cato Institute notes in its critique of the study, that measure is “ambiguous, poorly defined, and less used in modern research for those reasons.” Relying on such mutable methodology let Camarota exaggerate the number of immigrants on welfare to back up the claim that Americans are footing the bill for immigrants.


Groups like The American Immigration Council have long argued that, contra conservative depictions of “moocher,” immigrants have long given more to the welfare system than they take from it. “In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits,” a 2010 report by the Council found. “In another cut of the data, immigrant tax payments total $20 to $30 billion more than the amount of government services they use.” And a report by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in 2013 found that “more than half of undocumented immigrants have federal and state income, Social Security, and Medicare taxes automatically deducted from their paychecks.” Those immigrants are essentially helping to underwrite the welfare system, providing an enormous subsidy to it every year without being able to reap any of the benefits.
...}

 

[Rigby5]

ROFL! They can learn in a week.

Sure they could learn, but it is hot, boring, and labor intensive work, so the US citizens refuse.
That means if we want our economy to be ok, we need way more immigrants.

They refuse because they aren't willing to do it for $5/hr that Mexican labor is willing to do it for. However, they would do it for $15/hr. I used to do work like that when I was in high school and college.

Please stop lying. No one is getting paid $5. That’s a lie.
How can illegals even at the lowest even take $5? Traveling alone and gas doesn’t make sense.

You are badly uninformed.
Average immigrant agricultural workers make LESS than $5/hour.
{...
the pay dropped to the minimum wage of $3.35 per hour.
...}
Illegal Immigration and Low Wage Labor
They do not typically travel or pay for gas.
Most farms have on site trailers for their agricultural workers.
They could not afford to travel or drive, on such low wages.

Like plumbers or gardeners or painters etc etc etc........ they are not getting paid $5.
You see cars and cars line up at farms not trailers.

The only cars I see at farms other than the owners or foreman, are when they are selling wholesale to the public.
Agricultural workers can not afford cars, much less gasoline.
I don't know any farms without trailers.

 

[Rigby5]

you follow an unjust law.

Immigration laws are unjust? So you are for open borders?

i see poor folk, i see their hustle, i know immigrants are not our foe!

Us taxpayers are already picking up the bill for deadbeats like you. We can't afford to take care of middle and south America too.

are you a Christian?

you wanted me to destroy your argument, didnt you? didnt wanna disappoint!

All you did was demonstrate your ignorance. You still didn't respond to my points from earlier because you can't. Emotional responses that aren't backed up by logic are all you have.

hope is a moral imperative. if you look at american history, there's reason to hope.

when folks were saying we're gonna march for our freedoms someone said, you can't do that, and they said YES WE CAN!

YES WE CAN...welcome the whole world to our shores and provide them health care, safety, and education.

America needs to lead by the power of their example, not the example of its power

You're playing devils advocate, I get it, because nobody is this ignorant. You did it well I must add.
Most people believe that there is a right way and a wrong way to enter this country, let's just stick to the right way.

What is considered the "right way" is illegally rigged against native Americans.
We discriminate in favor of Europeans.
And that is not really legal.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We do not have the means to provide a better life to all who seek one. That is reality.

We have 20 millions of them that are already here.

Yes we do, and what is it costing us to have them here? We are 21 trillion in debt already you know.

Immigration, even illegal immigration, is a net multi billion dollar gain.
About all they get from us for free is school education for their children, and ER services, which they often still pay for.

No, look at all the border agents we need to keep them out. Look at what we provide to the people that get here. And what about the ones that end up in our prisons for decades? And that's not to mention the wage loss by American citizens. Then after they make money here, they ship it back over the border to their family.

Our immigration courts are tied up for years with back log cases of asylum and refugee claims. Think that's free?

Immigration whether legal or illegal is a net loss to the US. Over half of the legal immigrants here today are on welfare. That's a much higher percentage than Americans on welfare.

That is all backwards, as those expenses are all incurred by trying to keep them out.
Those expenses would not exist if we let them in instead.
NONE of the illegal immigrants are on welfare, and of the legal immigrants that get some welfare, they still produce and pay taxes far more than they receive.
That is a much LOWER percentage than non-immigrants on welfare.
{...
Immigrants Don't Drain Welfare. They Fund It.

Immigrants Don't Drain Welfare. They Fund It.
By LAURA RESTON
September 3, 2015

Republican presidential candidates who want to deport undocumented immigrants en masse, end birthright citizenship, and build a wall along the Mexican border just got some new ammunition. A report released Wednesday by the Center for Immigration Studies, an organization that advocates for reducing immigration to the United States, has concluded that 51 percent of households headed by immigrants—legal or undocumented—receive some kind of welfare. “They are creating a significant burden on public coffers,” writes Steven Camarota, the study’s author and the director of research for CIS. “By using welfare programs immigrants may strain public resources, harming taxpayers and making it more difficult to assist the low-income population already in the country.”

While that sentiment is likely to resonate with conservatives, the facts prove otherwise: Native-born Americans aren’t footing the bill for immigrants so much as immigrants are contributing to a welfare system that many of them can't take advantage of.

The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 cut back on welfare extended to immigrants. It categorized green card holders and refugees granted asylum as “qualified,” and all other immigrants—including undocumented workers and many people lawfully here in the United States—as “not qualified” and therefore ineligible for welfare. But the law stipulated that even qualified immigrants had to spend five years in the United States before they could apply for benefits like Medicaid, food stamps, or cash assistance for families with children. Since that major welfare reform, some states have responded by providing for immigrants with programs that offer health care to the children of immigrants or pregnant mothers, and a few states—like California and New York—offer nutritional or cash assistance. But those efforts are mostly limited to qualified residents, while all other immigrants are still almost universally banned from receiving welfare.

The CIS study exaggerates the number of immigrants on welfare by using households as the unit of analysis; as long as the head of household is an immigrant, they consider it an immigrant household, and Camarota counts a household “as using welfare if any one of its members used welfare during 2012.” This means that a household with an American spouse who therefore qualified for welfare could be counted as “using welfare.” The same would go for a child born in the United States to immigrant parents. If he or she received subsidized lunch at school, the whole household would be categorized as “using welfare.” As the Cato Institute notes in its critique of the study, that measure is “ambiguous, poorly defined, and less used in modern research for those reasons.” Relying on such mutable methodology let Camarota exaggerate the number of immigrants on welfare to back up the claim that Americans are footing the bill for immigrants.


Groups like The American Immigration Council have long argued that, contra conservative depictions of “moocher,” immigrants have long given more to the welfare system than they take from it. “In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits,” a 2010 report by the Council found. “In another cut of the data, immigrant tax payments total $20 to $30 billion more than the amount of government services they use.” And a report by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in 2013 found that “more than half of undocumented immigrants have federal and state income, Social Security, and Medicare taxes automatically deducted from their paychecks.” Those immigrants are essentially helping to underwrite the welfare system, providing an enormous subsidy to it every year without being able to reap any of the benefits.
...}

As I explained, the costs of immigrants is not just welfare alone. Plus the fact that all children get to use welfare whether they and their parents are legally here or not. Children can be on food stamps and Medicaid until they turn 18 years old, and their parent(s) here illegally all along.

We all know what it costs to feed a child, and we all know of the healthcare crisis in our country. So nobody can tell me that these illegals with children are contributing more than they are receiving. It costs 10K per child just to have a baby, and another 30K for prenatal care and after brith care.

 

[OKTexas]

So far, all I can find is "They're criminals".

People that cross illegally are in fact breaking laws that exist for good reasons.

There is no justification whatsoever to abusing, denigrating and destroying the lives of people who walked across an imaginary line signifying where one country ends and another begins.

There is plenty of justification to send people that come here illegally back to where they came from. Laws don't stop being legitimate just because you say so.

If you were prosecuting white people entering illegally from Canada the way you are brown people entering from Central America, at least it wouldn't appear to be so racist and hateful, but you're not.

Canada is a first world country and its citizens are not scrambling to cross illegally. Acting like illegal crossings from the north are as big of a problem as illegal crossings from the south is just dishonest and ignorant. I think our immigration laws should be even stricter. We don't need more unskilled and uneducated poor people in the United States. Mexican and middle American doctors and scientists are more than welcome. If you can't come here and be a productive, federal income tax paying member of our society then you shouldn't be allowed to immigrate.

Congratulations, the only difference between Americans and Nazi Germany, is that your government isn't carrying out the massacres themselves, they're just letting the lunatic fringe do their dirty work for them.

If our nation is so terrible you can leave. Nobody will try to stop you.

If immigration laws are based on such important reasons, then how come we did not try to pass any immigration laws for the first 120 years?

There could be valid reasons for some immigration laws, but the desire to discriminate against Native American cultures is not one of them.

The difference between what we call 3rd world and 1st world is that Canada just killed off more of their natives so have almost none left.

If you were in 1937 Nazi Germany, would you leave, or try to make it better?

More GD commie lies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/immigration_act_of_1882

.

 

[Flopper]

You probably don’t even understand what that means.

It means our economy needs immigrant labor because citizens don't know how to do agriculture, and don't want to learn.

ROFL! They can learn in a week.

Sure they could learn, but it is hot, boring, and labor intensive work, so the US citizens refuse.
That means if we want our economy to be ok, we need way more immigrants.

They refuse because they aren't willing to do it for $5/hr that Mexican labor is willing to do it for. However, they would do it for $15/hr. I used to do work like that when I was in high school and college.

Please stop lying. No one is getting paid $5. That’s a lie.
How can illegals even at the lowest even take $5? Traveling alone and gas doesn’t make sense.

The 2019 minimum wage in Mexico is $5.10/hr. Nobody is going to illegally cross the border to make $5/hr. Rising wages in Mexico and shortages of farm labor has reduced the Mexican illegal immigration to less that 50% and it still dropping. At one time illegally immigration was about 90% Mexican. Today illegal immigration from Central American, Asia, and South America have been on the increase.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

ROFL! They can learn in a week.

Sure they could learn, but it is hot, boring, and labor intensive work, so the US citizens refuse.
That means if we want our economy to be ok, we need way more immigrants.

As a son of a bricklayer, I can tell you that isn't the only hard job in this country. Ever carry clamps of bricks in the hot sun on a humid day? Mix cement by hand, shovel it into a wheelbarrow, and wheel it to the job site? Or perhaps load it with 8" block, wheel it to the job site, and unload it stacking it in a orderly fashion? How about erecting scaffolding two or three stories high?

I grew up doing that, and Americans did that for a living their entire lives.

I just put in a shop with 300 cinder blocks on the house I am selling, and did over 500 cinder blocks for a garage/deck for the last one. And the quotes I was getting from US masons were impossible. Some were as high as $20,000. So I ended up doing it myself. US workers have priced themselves out of the market, largely because they have not contained medical costs. Insurance has inflated everything by over 30%. It can't work. We can't keep paying for private health insurance.

If you look into it more, it's not the healthcare and not Americans won't do the work. It's the huge drug problem we have in this country.

My father is retired and gets news letters from his union. They were asking their retirees to help them find younger people to join the trade. The union has people willing to do the work, but can't pass the drug screen. It's not just a problem in construction, but in all medium to well paying industries across the country.

You are looking at that backwards.
The drugs are not the problem.
Most of the people I know do illegal drugs on the weekend.
They can't afford the dangerous sking, bungee jumping, skidoes, flying, skydiving, etc., that the wealthy can afford.
Drugs are actually a much cheaper, safer, and quicker alternative for them.
The whole problem is the War on Drugs.
There is no legal basis for ANY federal drug law at all.
And drug testing is an illegal violation of privacy.

But it is also health insurance.
We can't sell out products over seas because we have to tack on the costs of health insurance, and no other country does that.
Our products can't sell at those higher prices.

I work in industry all day every day. I know drugs are a huge problem. I talk with people at companies that can't find employees for that very reason.

It's not whether it's right or wrong, legal or not, it's the fact it is a huge problem in this country. Many employers will not hire somebody that can't pass a drug screen. As for pot, that stays in your system for several weeks after your last puff, so just using it on weekends doesn't give you the ability to pass a drug screen the next working week.

 

[OKTexas]

these were WORKING undoc' immigrants, not welfare suckers...?

The left wants to turn them into welfare recipients by not following through with our laws and kicking them out. How long until you fight to give them access to welfare and turn them all into citizens? In this very thread people are calling our border security laws illegitimate laws that should be broken. Even without welfare they use our infrastructure and emergency services. They also send money out of the nation back to where they came from. They cost us even before you start fighting to give them welfare.

You have no respect for our nation or its laws. People like me are trying to stop people like you from pushing us down a slippery slope to appease your bleeding hearts. As logical people it is our responsibility to stop you overemotional types from ruining our nation with your good intentions.

It is virtually impossible for most people to get welfare.
The only ways are through ADC or disability.

Immigrants have always produced far more than they take.
They are always profitable for us.

There are good laws and bad laws. Everyone is morally and legally obligated to end bad laws, any way possible.

Keep on pushing that commie propaganda, illegals cost the US more than 100 billion a year.

.

 

[OKTexas]

if you do not apologize for an unjust law like slavery, you will remain unconscious that you are recreating it with new unjust laws!

there's my stinging rejoinder!

You just compared immigration laws to slavery. Are you serious? You don't understand the ramifications of what you want because you're all heart and no brains. We need checks and balances, law and order. It can't be a fucking free for all. Immigration laws and standards are not unjust.

Immigration laws are similar to slavery.
The reason these immigrants have to leave is that US colonialism and imperialism has made it so bad for them at home.
That essentially is slavery, only where we limit it to outside the US only.

Immigration laws and standards are incredibly unjust, otherwise we would not have huge quotas for Europeans or the wealthy. You do know that the Statue of Liberty exists, right?

It was a gift from France. The poem everyone keeps quoting didn't come with it.

.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If you own agricultural farm and you cannot find workers that want to work or no one is applying.
Question #1. What are you going to do with your farm?

If you own a poultry or slaughter house and you cannot find workers or no one is applying?
Question #2. What are you going to do with your poultry farm?

These are very simple honest questions.

Pay a wage that Americans will work for. People want jobs and will work for reasonable wages. Saying "Nobody will do that job." is horseshit. Nobody will do that job for 5 dollars an hour under the table. Americans work all kinds of backbreaking manual labor jobs.

Exactly. What kind of work do our men and women do in the armed forces, and how much are they paid? How do you get somebody to take a job climbing up a telephone poll when it's nighttime with the wind blowing at 20 mph and the temperature is 2 degrees? Or how about people who work in a pool of water from a water main break in that weather?

Americans do these jobs every day in this country. There is no such thing as a job an American won't do.

Bulshit Ray..... we’ve been through this topic several times.
You are talking armed forces. Climbing up telephone poles. Those workers working for telephone companies.

I’m talking about dirty jobs like farming or slaughter house etc etc etc.

In my case alone. I need summer workers that will empty my shipping containers that we receive 7 containers a week. Inside is about 130°f. We have whiteys or blacks American applying but 99% after 5 to 10 minutes they just walked out. Most of these kids are college degrees.

Who stick around? Mexicans or Asians. I paid $32. temp agency. They are getting paid $26/hour lifting 2 to 4 lbs. boxes.
So you don’t give me this shit about...... Pay them right wages Americans will work.

Well they must be paying enough here because we have Americans unloading containers every single day. Unlike your company, the good employers have dock lights with high speed fans attached to blow cool air into the containers for the workers to work. They also work in tag-teams where one group can take a short break and get some water while the other team unloads for a while. They even switch tow motor drivers with the unloaders. Not a problem. I see it nearly every day.

Yes, trailers get hot in the summer. I've unloaded my own trailer many times with a pallet jack. My employer has no problems with how long it takes me in the severe hot or cold weather.

Either you are full of shit or You are lying to me big time Ray.

I’ve been fighting with you on several occasions. I brought this up many times about containers.
SUDDENLY YOU UNLOADING containers?

For one, you never brought it up. Two, I don't even know if your claim is genuine about being in the warehouse business. Three, I don't unload containers, I deliver and pickup at places that do. I have however unloaded my own trailer hundreds of times.

I am a truck driver, and anybody here that has read many of my posts know that. If you have time to kill, you can read my posts and see for yourself. So again, I've been in this business a very long time. I also have my own business being a landlord. I have no need to lie to anybody about what I do.

 

[charwin95]

Pay a wage that Americans will work for. People want jobs and will work for reasonable wages. Saying "Nobody will do that job." is horseshit. Nobody will do that job for 5 dollars an hour under the table. Americans work all kinds of backbreaking manual labor jobs.

Exactly. What kind of work do our men and women do in the armed forces, and how much are they paid? How do you get somebody to take a job climbing up a telephone poll when it's nighttime with the wind blowing at 20 mph and the temperature is 2 degrees? Or how about people who work in a pool of water from a water main break in that weather?

Americans do these jobs every day in this country. There is no such thing as a job an American won't do.

Bulshit Ray..... we’ve been through this topic several times.
You are talking armed forces. Climbing up telephone poles. Those workers working for telephone companies.

I’m talking about dirty jobs like farming or slaughter house etc etc etc.

In my case alone. I need summer workers that will empty my shipping containers that we receive 7 containers a week. Inside is about 130°f. We have whiteys or blacks American applying but 99% after 5 to 10 minutes they just walked out. Most of these kids are college degrees.

Who stick around? Mexicans or Asians. I paid $32. temp agency. They are getting paid $26/hour lifting 2 to 4 lbs. boxes.
So you don’t give me this shit about...... Pay them right wages Americans will work.

Well they must be paying enough here because we have Americans unloading containers every single day. Unlike your company, the good employers have dock lights with high speed fans attached to blow cool air into the containers for the workers to work. They also work in tag-teams where one group can take a short break and get some water while the other team unloads for a while. They even switch tow motor drivers with the unloaders. Not a problem. I see it nearly every day.

Yes, trailers get hot in the summer. I've unloaded my own trailer many times with a pallet jack. My employer has no problems with how long it takes me in the severe hot or cold weather.

Another bulshit Ray. You are putting words in my mouth.
Yes of course we have docks lights, portable AC, 15 minutes breaks every 45 minutes rotations etc etc etc. We do all that shit Ray just to keep them around. Because when they walked tits very costly.

Well you can't give me that Americans won't do the job nonsense. You can bullshit other people, but you can't bullshit somebody that's been in the transportation industry for over three decades. I've been to plenty of container ports and warehouses in my time. Well over 95% are Americans doing that job.

I do not bulshit like you. Ray. All my post are based from real life experience. I will be violating my own DECENT principles if I lie.

First I know that you are a racist bigot piece of shit. That I know.

You stupidly assumed that every emptying a container are the same in every locations.
You stupidly assumed that every locations or culture has the same attitude or kind of workers.

And you are a truck driver? Normally they just dropped the containers and leave and don’t give a shit with the rest.

And you are just struck driver how do you even know that other Americans are not willing to do dirty jobs?

Like I said many times. There are jobs all over but there are no Americans that farmers or others industries that do dirty jobs. That’s a fact and you always try to downplayed. Evidence are all over.
So don’t lie to me.

 

[Flopper]

Tell the class why all the restaurants were crying about avocado prices when Trump threatened to put tariffs on Mexico?

.

You probably don’t even understand what that means.

It means our economy needs immigrant labor because citizens don't know how to do agriculture, and don't want to learn.

That is what we’ve telling to these morons here that we need immigrants workers.

I never plant a single plant or vegetable or crop in my life. I never clean a chicken or a cow in my life. I never cut my grass in my life. I never clean my pool in my life. I don’t even know how to turn in my rainbow vacuum.

Someone has to do it.

These are all jobs that can be learned in a day.

Molly maids will tell you. Sure...... but where and who are the workers?

For all but the smaller companies, most of the presumed illegal immigrant labor is actually legal immigrants with green cards and Hispanic US citizens. I spoke to a maid doing our room in a hotel last week. I assumed she was Mexican. Actually she was born and raised in Seattle and was worked on her Master's degree at UW. Looks can be deceiving.

The legal Hispanic population in the US is about 52 million which means they out number illegal immigrants by about 5 to 1.

 

[OKTexas]

You probably don’t even understand what that means.

It means our economy needs immigrant labor because citizens don't know how to do agriculture, and don't want to learn.

ROFL! They can learn in a week.

Sure they could learn, but it is hot, boring, and labor intensive work, so the US citizens refuse.
That means if we want our economy to be ok, we need way more immigrants.

They refuse because they aren't willing to do it for $5/hr that Mexican labor is willing to do it for. However, they would do it for $15/hr. I used to do work like that when I was in high school and college.

If farms all had to pay $15/hour, we would all be starving, the US would not be exporting anything, and the US citizens would all be trying to emigrate to places where survival was easier.

The corps we export are all planted and harvested by machines.

.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The left wants to turn them into welfare recipients by not following through with our laws and kicking them out. How long until you fight to give them access to welfare and turn them all into citizens?

*** In this very thread people are calling our border security laws illegitimate laws that should be broken.

Even without welfare they use our infrastructure and emergency services. They also send money out of the nation back to where they came from. They cost us even before you start fighting to give them welfare.

You have no respect for our nation or its laws. People like me are trying to stop people like you from pushing us down a slippery slope to appease your bleeding hearts. As logical people it is our responsibility to stop you overemotional types from ruining our nation with your good intentions.

It’s far more complicated than that.

These people that are here are economically and politically imbedded in our society. It’s very easy for people like you to say deport deport........ But ignored their importance and contributions to the booming economy.


*** Do you understand how this come about? Let me explain. Ugly inhumane disgusting Americans called illegal border crossing are criminals.
Decent Americans with a good heart and human being totally disagree with you. We do not called them criminals. So we ( not you) are going to change that law.

There "importance" is only that they are sucking resources out of our society and social safety net. The sooner they are deported, the better off we are. I don't benefit in any way from their presence here.,

No Bri...... life doesn’t work that way. Like I always said ..... Are you going to drop your job? I don’t even know what the heck you do for a living.
Is this means your are going to quit your job and work at this chicken place?

Yes, life does work that way. Every immigrant allowed into this country is sucking up resources that could be spent on native born Americans.

What does my job have to do with anything? BTW, I have to compete with millions of software coolies from India that Obama and Clinton imported into this country.

Okay......... If life work the way you portrayed it.

Then answer my simple. Are you going to quit your job and work at this chicken place?

Who will replace those workers? You, Ray, confounding?
Who will repay all the loans and commitments that these people faulted?
Who will pay and take care all these kids that they left behind?
Who are going to pay to take care these American kids food, lodging, clothing and schools? YOU?

Lastly. NOT all immigrants depends on welfare.


So you are a SW engineer. I thought you work at a restaurants or janitorial or plumbing or roofer..... Because the way I look at it ........ you are sooooo fucking scared of illegals taking over your jobs.

You do know your PROMOTING exploiting minority's right?

Guess next you going to tell us your glad of sweat shop labor so you can buy cheap shit ....


What's next you want to eliminate child labor laws?

 

[OKTexas]

The left wants to turn them into welfare recipients by not following through with our laws and kicking them out. How long until you fight to give them access to welfare and turn them all into citizens?

*** In this very thread people are calling our border security laws illegitimate laws that should be broken.

Even without welfare they use our infrastructure and emergency services. They also send money out of the nation back to where they came from. They cost us even before you start fighting to give them welfare.

You have no respect for our nation or its laws. People like me are trying to stop people like you from pushing us down a slippery slope to appease your bleeding hearts. As logical people it is our responsibility to stop you overemotional types from ruining our nation with your good intentions.

It’s far more complicated than that.

These people that are here are economically and politically imbedded in our society. It’s very easy for people like you to say deport deport........ But ignored their importance and contributions to the booming economy.


*** Do you understand how this come about? Let me explain. Ugly inhumane disgusting Americans called illegal border crossing are criminals.
Decent Americans with a good heart and human being totally disagree with you. We do not called them criminals. So we ( not you) are going to change that law.

They're called illegal aliens in the law for a reason dumb ass.

.

Most or all Illegals crossing the borders are only seeking a better life. Not criminals like some of you defined.

That's a fucking crime idiot. And show me where I've defended anyone convicted of a crime.

.

Oh please. Crossing the border seeking better life is a crime?

Yep, up to 6 months in jail for the first offense. Try curing your ignorance.

.

 

[Wyatt earp]

these were WORKING undoc' immigrants, not welfare suckers...?

The left wants to turn them into welfare recipients by not following through with our laws and kicking them out. How long until you fight to give them access to welfare and turn them all into citizens? In this very thread people are calling our border security laws illegitimate laws that should be broken. Even without welfare they use our infrastructure and emergency services. They also send money out of the nation back to where they came from. They cost us even before you start fighting to give them welfare.

You have no respect for our nation or its laws. People like me are trying to stop people like you from pushing us down a slippery slope to appease your bleeding hearts. As logical people it is our responsibility to stop you overemotional types from ruining our nation with your good intentions.

It is virtually impossible for most people to get welfare.
The only ways are through ADC or disability.

Immigrants have always produced far more than they take.
They are always profitable for us.

There are good laws and bad laws. Everyone is morally and legally obligated to end bad laws, any way possible.

Hahahahaha... Bet you think it's impossible to buy cocaine, cheat on your taxes too.


A sucker born every minute or in your case a liberal propaganda tool.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Exactly. What kind of work do our men and women do in the armed forces, and how much are they paid? How do you get somebody to take a job climbing up a telephone poll when it's nighttime with the wind blowing at 20 mph and the temperature is 2 degrees? Or how about people who work in a pool of water from a water main break in that weather?

Americans do these jobs every day in this country. There is no such thing as a job an American won't do.

Bulshit Ray..... we’ve been through this topic several times.
You are talking armed forces. Climbing up telephone poles. Those workers working for telephone companies.

I’m talking about dirty jobs like farming or slaughter house etc etc etc.

In my case alone. I need summer workers that will empty my shipping containers that we receive 7 containers a week. Inside is about 130°f. We have whiteys or blacks American applying but 99% after 5 to 10 minutes they just walked out. Most of these kids are college degrees.

Who stick around? Mexicans or Asians. I paid $32. temp agency. They are getting paid $26/hour lifting 2 to 4 lbs. boxes.
So you don’t give me this shit about...... Pay them right wages Americans will work.

Well they must be paying enough here because we have Americans unloading containers every single day. Unlike your company, the good employers have dock lights with high speed fans attached to blow cool air into the containers for the workers to work. They also work in tag-teams where one group can take a short break and get some water while the other team unloads for a while. They even switch tow motor drivers with the unloaders. Not a problem. I see it nearly every day.

Yes, trailers get hot in the summer. I've unloaded my own trailer many times with a pallet jack. My employer has no problems with how long it takes me in the severe hot or cold weather.

Another bulshit Ray. You are putting words in my mouth.
Yes of course we have docks lights, portable AC, 15 minutes breaks every 45 minutes rotations etc etc etc. We do all that shit Ray just to keep them around. Because when they walked tits very costly.

Well you can't give me that Americans won't do the job nonsense. You can bullshit other people, but you can't bullshit somebody that's been in the transportation industry for over three decades. I've been to plenty of container ports and warehouses in my time. Well over 95% are Americans doing that job.

I do not bulshit like you. Ray. All my post are based from real life experience. I will be violating my own DECENT principles if I lie.

First I know that you are a racist bigot piece of shit. That I know.

You stupidly assumed that every emptying a container are the same in every locations.
You stupidly assumed that every locations or culture has the same attitude or kind of workers.

And you are a truck driver? Normally they just dropped the containers and leave and don’t give a shit with the rest.

And you are just struck driver how do you even know that other Americans are not willing to do dirty jobs?

Like I said many times. There are jobs all over but there are no Americans that farmers or others industries that do dirty jobs. That’s a fact and you always try to downplayed. Evidence are all over.
So don’t lie to me.

I think it is you that is lying, because I've been here for a few years. It seems that every liberal here is either a business owner, works from home, independently wealthy, or comfortably retired. Me? I'm the only truck driver here.

Now as for my work: I deliver and pickup at warehouses and container ports all the time. I see for myself who those workers are. And most times, they are the same people with every delivery or pickup. I don't sit in the truck and wait to be loaded or unloaded in most cases. I'm on the dock with those workers.

If being against illegal immigration makes me a racist, then that's what I am and proud of it.

 

[Flopper]

I'd cheerfully dismantle your arguments if I could find one. So far, all I can find is "They're criminals". There is no justification whatsoever to abusing, denigrating and destroying the lives of people who walked across an imaginary line signifying where one country ends and another begins.

If you were prosecuting white people entering illegally from Canada the way you are brown people entering from Central America, at least it wouldn't appear to be so racist and hateful, but you're not. Congratulations, the only difference between Americans and Nazi Germany, is that your government isn't carrying out the massacres themselves, they're just letting the lunatic fringe do their dirty work for them.

I also note that one of the greatest writers America has ever produced died this week and not one word from the White House. Toni Morrison is the only black woman to have every won the Nobel Prize. Not one annoucement, tweet or even a remark on the passing of America's greatest living author.

The silence is deafening.

There is no justification whatsoever to abusing, denigrating and destroying the lives of people who walked across an imaginary line signifying where one country ends and another begins.




Of course their is we have the Constitution and laws.

Yes, you do, and none of them justify abuse, attacks and destroying the lives of those who cross your border illegally.

I also notice how conservatives pivot on cue from decrying Muslim immigration, to decrying non--white immigration, to chanting "send her back". This is straight out of 1984. The ICE Raids are straight out of Nazi Germany, as are imprisoning brown people in deplorable conditions.

Lol
Diseased illegal aliens have no right to be here, we should not have to pay for shit… Kids or no kids.
People need to realize they need to pay for their actions… It’s their fault if their family gets all fucked up mentally and physically. Karma is a bitch

Notice how the trolls parrot the Trump Administration's lies that the refugees are diseased, and not really humans. Infestations, invasio lns, diseased, criminal, anything to denigrate, dehumanize and villianize refugees. Millions of Americans came to the USA broke, and fleeing all manner of unhappiness in their homelands - wars, famines, religious persecution. Russian know nothing about fleeing from persecution. They're always the ones meting it out. Just ask the Jews about the Pogroms where estimates are that more than 30,000 Jews were brutally murdered, and thousands of women raped.

Russians are well versed on how to abuse minorities, and those they consider "inferior". Their following the dictator's playbook of dehumanizing the victims first - infestation, subhuman, scum. They the cruelties inflicted seem justifiable. If only these scum hadn't come here, we wouldn't have had to take their children. None of this treatment is warranted, and none of it is justified.

These are barbarous and cruel acts, committed be people who should be arrested and jailed for crimes against humanity. Those who vote for or support Trump can't disavow the lawlessness or the cruelty. It's a package deal. It's time to decide your humanity or lack thereof.

The United States of America allows nearly a million people to become part of our country every single year. This is on top of the generous work permits and VISA's we issue, and not to mention all the foreign aid we provide on top of the dozens if not hundreds of charity organizations contributing to the poor all over the world.

I get so sick and fed up with people who constantly bash us claiming we don't do enough for other people outside our own. Who does more for other people than the citizens and government of the United States?

IMO, we not only do enough, we do more than enough. We do too much at times. Nobody on the left seems to appreciate that. So maybe the solution to this problem is not to give anybody anything. Like the parents who cut off money to their son who complained that the new vehicle you gave him was a 4-wheel drive SUV and not a Corvette.

After a while, some Americans get sick of getting kicked in the ass when we bend over to pick up a five dollar bill to hand to somebody else. I'm one of those Americans.

As far foreign aid, it's less than 1% of the budget. However, don't make mistake of thinking it's an out right gift with no strings attached. Most of our foreign aid is military aid for allies, or in exchange for military bases or other other considerations.

Take a look at the countries that receive the most foreign aid:

• Afghanistan ($US5 billion)
• Israel ($US3.2 billion)
• Iraq ($US1.3 billion)
• Egypt ($US1.3 billion)
• Syria ($US541,500,000)
• Jordan ($US364,200,000)

Most of the rest of it is spent in countries like Mexico who in turn provide support for the war on illegal drug and terrorism, and dozens of other countries in order to get support for various issues and programs. A small amount of foreign aid goes to pure humanitarian aid but the largest amounts come from the UN and private charities from around the world.
The huge humanitarian aid after WWII is a thing of the past. We give in order to get.