The most fucked in the head opinion piece I have ever read to justify criminals.

[EvilCat Breath]

And then there’s this:

“Terrible things are happening outside. At any time of night and day, poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes . . . Families are torn apart: men, women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have disappeared.” - Anne Frank

Those people were in their OWN country, being dragged out of their homes by an invading Army, and were innocent. There is no similarity. You are simply a dumbass.

Then you are misunderstanding the message. The ones being dragged out of their homes and arrested believe themselves to be in their own county. It is YOU who is the interloper. YOU are the invading army. They have every right to be here. It us the Americans who do not have that right.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh, so now I'm like the El Paso shooter. Interesting...

So are you going to address the posts where I completely dismantled your position? No? I mean, I know you can't, but I'm not going to let it go that easily.

I'd cheerfully dismantle your arguments if I could find one. So far, all I can find is "They're criminals". There is no justification whatsoever to abusing, denigrating and destroying the lives of people who walked across an imaginary line signifying where one country ends and another begins.

If you were prosecuting white people entering illegally from Canada the way you are brown people entering from Central America, at least it wouldn't appear to be so racist and hateful, but you're not. Congratulations, the only difference between Americans and Nazi Germany, is that your government isn't carrying out the massacres themselves, they're just letting the lunatic fringe do their dirty work for them.

I also note that one of the greatest writers America has ever produced died this week and not one word from the White House. Toni Morrison is the only black woman to have every won the Nobel Prize. Not one annoucement, tweet or even a remark on the passing of America's greatest living author.

The silence is deafening.

There is no justification whatsoever to abusing, denigrating and destroying the lives of people who walked across an imaginary line signifying where one country ends and another begins.




Of course their is we have the Constitution and laws.

Yes, you do, and none of them justify abuse, attacks and destroying the lives of those who cross your border illegally.

I also notice how conservatives pivot on cue from decrying Muslim immigration, to decrying non--white immigration, to chanting "send her back". This is straight out of 1984. The ICE Raids are straight out of Nazi Germany, as are imprisoning brown people in deplorable conditions.

Lol
Diseased illegal aliens have no right to be here, we should not have to pay for shit… Kids or no kids.
People need to realize they need to pay for their actions… It’s their fault if their family gets all fucked up mentally and physically. Karma is a bitch

Notice how the trolls parrot the Trump Administration's lies that the refugees are diseased, and not really humans. Infestations, invasio lns, diseased, criminal, anything to denigrate, dehumanize and villianize refugees. Millions of Americans came to the USA broke, and fleeing all manner of unhappiness in their homelands - wars, famines, religious persecution. Russian know nothing about fleeing from persecution. They're always the ones meting it out. Just ask the Jews about the Pogroms where estimates are that more than 30,000 Jews were brutally murdered, and thousands of women raped.

Russians are well versed on how to abuse minorities, and those they consider "inferior". Their following the dictator's playbook of dehumanizing the victims first - infestation, subhuman, scum. They the cruelties inflicted seem justifiable. If only these scum hadn't come here, we wouldn't have had to take their children. None of this treatment is warranted, and none of it is justified.

These are barbarous and cruel acts, committed be people who should be arrested and jailed for crimes against humanity. Those who vote for or support Trump can't disavow the lawlessness or the cruelty. It's a package deal. It's time to decide your humanity or lack thereof.

The United States of America allows nearly a million people to become part of our country every single year. This is on top of the generous work permits and VISA's we issue, and not to mention all the foreign aid we provide on top of the dozens if not hundreds of charity organizations contributing to the poor all over the world.

I get so sick and fed up with people who constantly bash us claiming we don't do enough for other people outside our own. Who does more for other people than the citizens and government of the United States?

IMO, we not only do enough, we do more than enough. We do too much at times. Nobody on the left seems to appreciate that. So maybe the solution to this problem is not to give anybody anything. Like the parents who cut off money to their son who complained that the new vehicle you gave him was a 4-wheel drive SUV and not a Corvette.

After a while, some Americans get sick of getting kicked in the ass when we bend over to pick up a five dollar bill to hand to somebody else. I'm one of those Americans.

 

[charwin95]

Are you scared?

Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupefied by you.

Sure you are.

So far you have not given me a real rebuttal but pure ignorance and dishonesty.
In short you just talked too much and You don’t know shit.

 

[charwin95]

They refuse because they aren't willing to do it for $5/hr that Mexican labor is willing to do it for. However, they would do it for $15/hr. I used to do work like that when I was in high school and college.

He has suggested that Americans won't do farm labor for 15-20 dollars an hour. I think he's full of shit.

Yeah right.. Why are you going around? Why not confront me straight up? Are you scared?
Look who is full of shit.

Talking to you is a waste of bandwidth. You are immune to facts and logic.

And you?

 

[charwin95]

It’s far more complicated than that.

These people that are here are economically and politically imbedded in our society. It’s very easy for people like you to say deport deport........ But ignored their importance and contributions to the booming economy.


*** Do you understand how this come about? Let me explain. Ugly inhumane disgusting Americans called illegal border crossing are criminals.
Decent Americans with a good heart and human being totally disagree with you. We do not called them criminals. So we ( not you) are going to change that law.

They're called illegal aliens in the law for a reason dumb ass.

.

Most or all Illegals crossing the borders are only seeking a better life. Not criminals like some of you defined.

That's a fucking crime idiot. And show me where I've defended anyone convicted of a crime.

.

Oh please. Crossing the border seeking better life is a crime?

Yes it is. It's officially a crime. It's in the federal register.

We will charge that law by 2020.

 

[Flopper]

You have to be kidding me hey politico THEY ARE CRIMINALS ...we are a nation of laws you numb nuts..


The ICE raids aren’t just wrong – they’re expensive


The ICE raids aren’t just wrong – they’re expensive

Does it make sense to spend $50,000 locking up someone for supporting her family?

This week, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement raided seven Mississippi food processing plants and arrested 680 workers for immigration violations. The moral cost of these raids to our shared humanity is apparent in stories like that of a tearful 13-year-old boy waving goodbye to his mother or an 11-year old girl pleading for her father’s release. But some people might feel differently, believing such scenes are just the cost of enforcing our immigration laws. If that’s you, I urge you to weigh another cost instead: the sheer financial expense of such cruelty.

First, there’s lost income. ICE was created in 2003 to “protect national security and public safety after 9/11,” but this week’s raids were not about security or safety or terrorism. They targeted immigrants while they worked to support their families and our economy. Many of the arrested individuals now leave behind jobs that won’t be filled and children and spouses who now live without a family member and their associated income. Their communities and local businesses will suffer down the line. And state and local governments will lose the associated tax revenues; undocumented workers pay an estimated $12 billion a year in taxes.

Then there are the costs of enforcement and detention. ICE Acting Director Matt Albence admitted that the raids required a yearlong investigation and 600 agents to execute. The 680 arrested individuals now languish in detention facilities. According to ICE, the average daily cost of detaining one person is $134. Some estimates place the cost at closer to $200 per day. Given this administration’s immigration policies, from family separation to zero tolerance to mass raids, the number of immigrants in detention is rapidly expanding, not retracting. For every person who leaves detention, another replaces them, if not two. Even using ICE’s conservative figure of $134, the cost of keeping one immigrant in detention is almost $50,000 per year. The detention expense alone for the group detained on Wednesday is approximately $100,000 a day, $3 million per month, and $36 million a year. Given that more raids are coming, these costs are only going to go up.

Leftists don't care about the laws. Until you come to grips with that this stuff will freak you out.

Laws are supposed to be about things that are inherently good or evil, like rape, murder, or theft.
Immigration is not inherently evil.
In fact, it is essentially an inherent individual right.
It is not legal to set tight quotas on Native American immigrants while allowing wide open immigration for Europeans.

Immigration laws have always been based on race and privilege. The wealthy always get visas regardless on where they are from. Then high skilled employees. Next come the white northern Europeans followed by southern Europeans. The capacity and desire to be a good citizen that will make our nation stronger has never been a consideration.

 

[bripat9643]

And then there’s this:

“Terrible things are happening outside. At any time of night and day, poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes . . . Families are torn apart: men, women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have disappeared.” - Anne Frank

Got to love crazy. Those people were taken to concentration camps. Even the girl that wrote it was taken to one where she died. Millions were slaughtered.
Being sent back to the country you came from after receiving notice and refusing to leave is hardly the same.
But can't fault you for not understanding simple ideas.

But what you don't understand it that the fascist death squads in Honduras, etc., are also murdering tens of thousands, and are trained, armed, and back by the US.
The only difference from the tragedy faced by Anne Frank is that now the US is the one responsible for the killing..

THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE BLAME AMERICA FIRST GROUP! GIVE US A PROBLEM, AND WE'LL FIND A WAY TO BLAME YOU FOR IT.

Except that it is a well known fact.
The US trained the military of Honduras as the School for the Americas in Ft. Bennings, Georgia.
We encouraged them to over throw the elected president of Honduras, Zelany.
The rest of the world was outraged.
But the US supported the military take over because Zelany was friendly with Chavez in Venezuela.

When you say "we," you mean the Obama administration. And all the leftwing turds like you supported that decision.

 

[bripat9643]

They're called illegal aliens in the law for a reason dumb ass.

.

Most or all Illegals crossing the borders are only seeking a better life. Not criminals like some of you defined.

That's a fucking crime idiot. And show me where I've defended anyone convicted of a crime.

.

Oh please. Crossing the border seeking better life is a crime?

Yes it is. It's officially a crime. It's in the federal register.

We will charge that law by 2020.

Trump isn't going to sign that bill.

 

[charwin95]

You probably don’t even understand what that means.

It means our economy needs immigrant labor because citizens don't know how to do agriculture, and don't want to learn.

That is what we’ve telling to these morons here that we need immigrants workers.

I never plant a single plant or vegetable or crop in my life. I never clean a chicken or a cow in my life. I never cut my grass in my life. I never clean my pool in my life. I don’t even know how to turn in my rainbow vacuum.

Someone has to do it.

These are all jobs that can be learned in a day.

Molly maids will tell you. Sure...... but where and who are the workers?

Have you ever hired a maid service? I did recently, and the people doing it were not illegals. They weren't even Hispanic.

Yes in last 15 years both locations east and west coast 2x a month each. Both locations are Hispanics and they don’t speak English. My gardener and pool cleaners also barely speak English.

My live in house sitter deal with them regularly. But Ive talked to their managers about employees.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If you own agricultural farm and you cannot find workers that want to work or no one is applying.
Question #1. What are you going to do with your farm?

If you own a poultry or slaughter house and you cannot find workers or no one is applying?
Question #2. What are you going to do with your poultry farm?

These are very simple honest questions.

Pay a wage that Americans will work for. People want jobs and will work for reasonable wages. Saying "Nobody will do that job." is horseshit. Nobody will do that job for 5 dollars an hour under the table. Americans work all kinds of backbreaking manual labor jobs.

Exactly. What kind of work do our men and women do in the armed forces, and how much are they paid? How do you get somebody to take a job climbing up a telephone poll when it's nighttime with the wind blowing at 20 mph and the temperature is 2 degrees? Or how about people who work in a pool of water from a water main break in that weather?

Americans do these jobs every day in this country. There is no such thing as a job an American won't do.

Bulshit Ray..... we’ve been through this topic several times.
You are talking armed forces. Climbing up telephone poles. Those workers working for telephone companies.

I’m talking about dirty jobs like farming or slaughter house etc etc etc.

In my case alone. I need summer workers that will empty my shipping containers that we receive 7 containers a week. Inside is about 130°f. We have whiteys or blacks American applying but 99% after 5 to 10 minutes they just walked out. Most of these kids are college degrees.

Who stick around? Mexicans or Asians. I paid $32. temp agency. They are getting paid $26/hour lifting 2 to 4 lbs. boxes.
So you don’t give me this shit about...... Pay them right wages Americans will work.

Well they must be paying enough here because we have Americans unloading containers every single day. Unlike your company, the good employers have dock lights with high speed fans attached to blow cool air into the containers for the workers to work. They also work in tag-teams where one group can take a short break and get some water while the other team unloads for a while. They even switch tow motor drivers with the unloaders. Not a problem. I see it nearly every day.

Yes, trailers get hot in the summer. I've unloaded my own trailer many times with a pallet jack. My employer has no problems with how long it takes me in the severe hot or cold weather.

 

[Rigby5]

And then there’s this:

“Terrible things are happening outside. At any time of night and day, poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes . . . Families are torn apart: men, women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have disappeared.” - Anne Frank

Got to love crazy. Those people were taken to concentration camps. Even the girl that wrote it was taken to one where she died. Millions were slaughtered.
Being sent back to the country you came from after receiving notice and refusing to leave is hardly the same.
But can't fault you for not understanding simple ideas.

But what you don't understand it that the fascist death squads in Honduras, etc., are also murdering tens of thousands, and are trained, armed, and back by the US.
The only difference from the tragedy faced by Anne Frank is that now the US is the one responsible for the killing..

Spare me. I've been to Honduras. They have one of the highest crime rates in the world, but they don't have fascist death squads.

You could not know if Honduras had fascist death squads by visiting in a hotel.
But it is well established fact that since the 2009 military take over, that tens of thousands have been murdered by government sponsored death squads.
Crisis of Honduras democracy has roots in US tacit support for 2009 coup
{...
Crisis of Honduras democracy has roots in US tacit support for 2009 coup

The US has been all but silent about the unrest engulfing its ally but one analyst warns: ‘Americans should care about the chaos because of cocaine and migrants’

Eleven days after its general election, Honduras still has no president.

Since the 26 November vote, at least 11 people have died in clashes with security forces, and tens of thousands of people have taken to the streets in protest over an electoral process marked by suspicious delays, inexplicable irregularities – and opposition claims that the ruling party is trying to steal the election.

The standoff pits the opposition candidate Salvador Nasralla against the rightwing incumbent, Juan Orlando Hernández, but Hondurans say the race isn’t just about who will run the country for the next four years.

For many, what is at stake is the credibility of Honduran democracy, which is still reeling from a 2009 military coup against the populist president Manuel Zelaya.

The political turmoil will probably have far-reaching consequences, and the United States, which wields considerable influence in the country, shares some responsibility for creating the political landscape that laid the ground for the crisis.

“Many countries around the world are struggling with building representative democracies and fighting against corruption and crime,” said Eric Olson, the director of the Latin American Program at the Wilson Center.

“Honduras is definitely one of these, and what happens there will offer the world some important lessons. So far, the lessons have been more of the painful variety: the kinds of crisis and violence that can emerge when transparency is undermined to guarantee political favour.”
...
Honduras has long been a strategic partner for Washington: since 2009, the US has invested nearly $114m in security assistance to establish elite military and police units, ratchet up border security, and carry out counternarcotics operations as part of Hernández’s crackdown on gangs.
...}

 

[OKTexas]

Most or all Illegals crossing the borders are only seeking a better life.

We do not have the means to provide a better life to all who seek one. That is reality.

We have 20 millions of them that are already here.

Nice to see you admit that the bogus numbers the press has been feeding the American people are pure commie bullshit. Good job commie.

.

 

[Flopper]

I’ve been through with these topics several times here in this site and in real life.
I personally know 2 farmers here in Ca and one in Arizona. They will not vote for Trump again.

What I’m telling you are real life no bullshit or horseshit. These illegals are are getting rare that they are demanding their rates nobody is getting paid $5. These farmers are willing to take any workers that apply.

You are absolutely correct. Pay wages that Americans will work. You probably talking about old timers. I still have several of them. Tough hard workers dedicated but they are getting old and retiring soon.

Let say you are willing to work at the farm picking strawberries or avocados. How much do you think are you willing to accept $16 $20?
1. How much do you think those strawberries or avocados will cost at the groceries?
2. With the heat, heavy lifting. How long are you going to last?
3. How far is your house to these farms? Are you willing to travel?
4. You probably wants break time, shoes or uniform.
5. And if you have a kid. Is your babysitting cost more?

For lousy $16 with all those factors. Will it be easier or cheaper if you just stay home or at works McDonald’s?





Here’s How Immigration Policy Impacts Your Avocados and Other Produce – Fortune

To attract workers, farmers are raising wages to well above the minimum wage, which in California is $11 per hour, especially in higher cost places like Napa, Calif. Farmers are also increasingly paying for H-2A visas for guest workers.

Tell the class why all the restaurants were crying about avocado prices when Trump threatened to put tariffs on Mexico?

.

You probably don’t even understand what that means.

It means our economy needs immigrant labor because citizens don't know how to do agriculture, and don't want to learn.

ROFL! They can learn in a week.

Sure they could learn, but it is hot, boring, and labor intensive work, so the US citizens refuse.
That means if we want our economy to be ok, we need way more immigrants.

That is often neglected. We have 7 million unfilled jobs and by 2024, economist are estimating that the demand will create to 20 million unfilled jobs. And those numbers will continue to increase to 2050 due to baby boomer retirements and decreasing birth rates. Many employees think labor shortages are a good thing but what they don't realize is that if America does not have the workforce it needs, economy output falls and that's not good for anyone.

 

[charwin95]

It means our economy needs immigrant labor because citizens don't know how to do agriculture, and don't want to learn.

ROFL! They can learn in a week.

Sure they could learn, but it is hot, boring, and labor intensive work, so the US citizens refuse.
That means if we want our economy to be ok, we need way more immigrants.

They refuse because they aren't willing to do it for $5/hr that Mexican labor is willing to do it for. However, they would do it for $15/hr. I used to do work like that when I was in high school and college.

Please stop lying. No one is getting paid $5. That’s a lie.
How can illegals even at the lowest even take $5? Traveling alone and gas doesn’t make sense.

You are badly uninformed.
Average immigrant agricultural workers make LESS than $5/hour.
{...
the pay dropped to the minimum wage of $3.35 per hour.
...}
Illegal Immigration and Low Wage Labor
They do not typically travel or pay for gas.
Most farms have on site trailers for their agricultural workers.
They could not afford to travel or drive, on such low wages.

Explain that to the real farmers that are facing these problems.
You relied on links. I rely in real life expectancies and experience that are working in these industries.

No one is getting paid $5 or $3.35.

 

[Rigby5]

you are sooooo fucking scared of illegals taking over your jobs.

I am scared of allowing even more ignorant and low skilled workers into our society when we already have a plethora and technology is destroying the jobs they need. I'm not like these other guys you're debating. I actually want public universities and healthcare for Americans that need it. That won't be possible if we keep letting in nearly useless poor people that will put their hands out for a piece of that pie. We can't have good safety nets for Americans while letting in anybody that makes it to the border. Good intentions can't defeat math.

Good safety nets for US citizens requires far more workers.
Social security for example, used to have 6 to one, and now only had 1.5 to 1. It can't work. Social Security requires more workers. We need lower wage costs if we want to survive the threat that China poses to our economy. That is the math.

 

[OKTexas]

If you own agricultural farm and you cannot find workers that want to work or no one is applying.
Question #1. What are you going to do with your farm?

If you own a poultry or slaughter house and you cannot find workers or no one is applying?
Question #2. What are you going to do with your poultry farm?

These are very simple honest questions.

Pay a wage that Americans will work for. People want jobs and will work for reasonable wages. Saying "Nobody will do that job." is horseshit. Nobody will do that job for 5 dollars an hour under the table. Americans work all kinds of backbreaking manual labor jobs.

I’ve been through with these topics several times here in this site and in real life.
I personally know 2 farmers here in Ca and one in Arizona. They will not vote for Trump again.

What I’m telling you are real life no bullshit or horseshit. These illegals are are getting rare that they are demanding their rates nobody is getting paid $5. These farmers are willing to take any workers that apply.

You are absolutely correct. Pay wages that Americans will work. You probably talking about old timers. I still have several of them. Tough hard workers dedicated but they are getting old and retiring soon.

Let say you are willing to work at the farm picking strawberries or avocados. How much do you think are you willing to accept $16 $20?
1. How much do you think those strawberries or avocados will cost at the groceries?
2. With the heat, heavy lifting. How long are you going to last?
3. How far is your house to these farms? Are you willing to travel?
4. You probably wants break time, shoes or uniform.
5. And if you have a kid. Is your babysitting cost more?

For lousy $16 with all those factors. Will it be easier or cheaper if you just stay home or at works McDonald’s?





Here’s How Immigration Policy Impacts Your Avocados and Other Produce – Fortune

To attract workers, farmers are raising wages to well above the minimum wage, which in California is $11 per hour, especially in higher cost places like Napa, Calif. Farmers are also increasingly paying for H-2A visas for guest workers.

Tell the class why all the restaurants were crying about avocado prices when Trump threatened to put tariffs on Mexico?

.

You probably don’t even understand what that means.

Sure I do, I don't think you do.

.

 

[charwin95]

Most or all Illegals crossing the borders are only seeking a better life. Not criminals like some of you defined.

That's a fucking crime idiot. And show me where I've defended anyone convicted of a crime.

.

Oh please. Crossing the border seeking better life is a crime?

Yes it is. It's officially a crime. It's in the federal register.

We will charge that law by 2020.

Trump isn't going to sign that bill.

Let me rephrase that.

We will charge that law and so is the current POTUS.

 

[danielpalos]

Most or all Illegals crossing the borders are only seeking a better life.

We do not have the means to provide a better life to all who seek one. That is reality.

Millions cross our border every day for trade. Refugees are a minority. And, abolish our useless wars on the abstractions of crime, drugs, and terror to stop creating refugees.

 

[OKTexas]

Most or all Illegals crossing the borders are only seeking a better life.

We do not have the means to provide a better life to all who seek one. That is reality.

We have 20 millions of them that are already here.

Yeah, no shit. How many will there be when left wing lunatics get their way with immigration?

You get me wrong. I’m only speaking for the illegals that are already here living with jobs following law.

If they have jobs they're NOT FOLLOWING THE LAW.

.

 

[danielpalos]

You have to be kidding me hey politico THEY ARE CRIMINALS ...we are a nation of laws you numb nuts..


The ICE raids aren’t just wrong – they’re expensive


The ICE raids aren’t just wrong – they’re expensive

Does it make sense to spend $50,000 locking up someone for supporting her family?

This week, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement raided seven Mississippi food processing plants and arrested 680 workers for immigration violations. The moral cost of these raids to our shared humanity is apparent in stories like that of a tearful 13-year-old boy waving goodbye to his mother or an 11-year old girl pleading for her father’s release. But some people might feel differently, believing such scenes are just the cost of enforcing our immigration laws. If that’s you, I urge you to weigh another cost instead: the sheer financial expense of such cruelty.

First, there’s lost income. ICE was created in 2003 to “protect national security and public safety after 9/11,” but this week’s raids were not about security or safety or terrorism. They targeted immigrants while they worked to support their families and our economy. Many of the arrested individuals now leave behind jobs that won’t be filled and children and spouses who now live without a family member and their associated income. Their communities and local businesses will suffer down the line. And state and local governments will lose the associated tax revenues; undocumented workers pay an estimated $12 billion a year in taxes.

Then there are the costs of enforcement and detention. ICE Acting Director Matt Albence admitted that the raids required a yearlong investigation and 600 agents to execute. The 680 arrested individuals now languish in detention facilities. According to ICE, the average daily cost of detaining one person is $134. Some estimates place the cost at closer to $200 per day. Given this administration’s immigration policies, from family separation to zero tolerance to mass raids, the number of immigrants in detention is rapidly expanding, not retracting. For every person who leaves detention, another replaces them, if not two. Even using ICE’s conservative figure of $134, the cost of keeping one immigrant in detention is almost $50,000 per year. The detention expense alone for the group detained on Wednesday is approximately $100,000 a day, $3 million per month, and $36 million a year. Given that more raids are coming, these costs are only going to go up.

Leftists don't care about the laws. Until you come to grips with that this stuff will freak you out.

The right cares even less. There is no express immigration clause.