The need to make churches pay tax

[EvilCat Breath]

Let's cut through the bullshit. The reason churches are exempt from taxation is to promote religion. But (of course) only religions approved of by the government. The is exactly the kind of thing the First Amendment is supposed to prevent.

The reasons why churches are exempt from taxation is to muzzle them and keep them from speaking out on controversial issues. It's a way of control so they don't give sermons condemning homosexuality or integration.

 

[ding]

Give it time.

Never gonna happen.

Unlike you sheep I don't need some political party to tell me how to think

Maybe you do. You've convinced yourself that a church is a business. You don't seem to be doing so well on your own.

And you know how I am doing how exactly?

If you know so much tell me what the gross of my business was this year. Tell me how much property and sales tax my business paid.

I don't think I said anything about that.

I thought I was pretty clear. Maybe you do need for someone to tell you how to think. You've convinced yourself that a church is a business.

You have no idea how well I am doing was the point that sailed right over your head

Nor you about me. So what? What does that have to do with anything?

 

[dblack]

Word games.

Definitions.

Bottom line, we live in a shared society with shared consequences. Stances must be taken.

That's fine. As long as they don't boil down to one group forcing it's will on another. But all too often, with ambitious social programs, that's the case.

 

[ding]

Let's cut through the bullshit. The reason churches are exempt from taxation is to promote religion. But (of course) only religions approved of by the government. The is exactly the kind of thing the First Amendment is supposed to prevent.

The reasons why churches are exempt from taxation is to muzzle them and keep them from speaking out on controversial issues. It's a way of control so they don't give sermons condemning homosexuality or integration.

Yes, but they don't have to muzzle themselves. Churches played a huge role in early American politics.

 

[ding]

I'm not a fan of bullies either. I'm also not a fan of amorality. There are things we should stand for and stand against.

Of course. And believe it or not, you can do that without coercion.

Bullies usually don't respond to pretty please.

Defending yourself is not coercion. Dictionary.com - The world’s favorite online dictionary!

Word games.

Definitions.

Bottom line, we live in a shared society with shared consequences. Stances must be taken.

That's fine. As long as they don't boil down to one group forcing it's will on another. But all too often, with ambitious social programs, that's the case.

Of course we will force our will on others. That's how one takes a stand.

 

[ding]

Secondly, if all religions are treated the same, there is no special treatment.

Bullshit. Only churches registered and approved as such by the federal government enjoy the exemption: Exemption Requirements Section 501(c)(3) Organizations | Internal Revenue Service

And they all have the same opportunity to do so.

Everyone is treated the same.

 

[Skull Pilot]

That's usually how Libertarian amorality manifests itself. A vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach.

Nothing so subtle. We just don't like bullies. And we won't support a government that facilitates bullies.

I'm not a fan of bullies either. I'm also not a fan of amorality. There are things we should stand for and stand against.

Nothing amoral about not wanting preferential treatment of churches and so called nonprofits at the expense of everyone, quite the opposite really/

The irony is that the tax exemption is a direct violation of the First Amendment. Government giving approved religions special status is exactly why they wrote the amendment.

First of all the establishment clause was written to prevent the Federal government with interfering with the established state religions of which half of the states had at the time the constitution was ratified.

Secondly, if all religions are treated the same, there is no special treatment.

And lastly, taxing religious organizations would be in violation of the establishment clause.

No it would not.

Passing a law that gives religions preferential treatment violates the first amendment because it is a law respecting an establishment of religion. Not only that because there is the preferential tax treatment the government can censor what the clergy of a church say to the members of that church therefore it is a twofold violation.

 

[dblack]

Secondly, if all religions are treated the same, there is no special treatment.

Bullshit. Only churches registered and approved as such by the federal government enjoy the exemption: Exemption Requirements Section 501(c)(3) Organizations | Internal Revenue Service

And they all have the same opportunity to do so.

Everyone is treated the same.

Love the logic there. So, we could write a law giving registered Democrats a tax break, and that would fly with you? Everyone has the same opportunity to register Democrat. Everyone is treated the same, right?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Never gonna happen.

Unlike you sheep I don't need some political party to tell me how to think

Maybe you do. You've convinced yourself that a church is a business. You don't seem to be doing so well on your own.

And you know how I am doing how exactly?

If you know so much tell me what the gross of my business was this year. Tell me how much property and sales tax my business paid.

I don't think I said anything about that.

I thought I was pretty clear. Maybe you do need for someone to tell you how to think. You've convinced yourself that a church is a business.

You have no idea how well I am doing was the point that sailed right over your head

Nor you about me. So what? What does that have to do with anything?

You're the one who made the statement that I don't seem to be doing too well not me.

Once again that you have absolutely no idea how I am doing sailed right over your head

 

[martybegan]

No, they are being treated as any other non profit, as part of the States tax laws.

How many times do I have to tell you that nonprofits should not have preferential treatment.

But the fact is Congress did indeed pass a law favoring religious establishments.

Just more of your butthurt showing.

Excuse the fuck out of me for thinking that no establishment should have preferred legal status.

Tell you what all you religious wackos start paying 100% for your churches instead of using tax money

Which Churches get Tax money?

By being exempt from different taxes but still receiving the services those taxes pay for churches and so called nonprofits are being supported by everyone who pays those taxes

It isn't rocket science

So you would be ok denying services to poor people who don't pay taxes as well?

 

[martybegan]

CAPS DON"T MAKE YOU RIGHT.

In this case yes they do.

No business, no person in the USA should be given preferential legal status.

But you want exactly that

What you call preferential is just specifics.

What makes you butthurt about it is that you hate religious people and any specifics about them enrages you.

I don't hate anyone. You are free to worship whatever you want just don't ask other people to support your religion with tax breaks

I just don't want to support religious institutions with my tax dollars.

Again, the progressive concept of money not belonging to the people who have it, but to the people as a whole or the government.

So am I progressive or right wing since you sheep have called me both?.
The tax I pay that churches don't is to cover my use of the services those taxes fund. Churches and so called nonprofits do not pay these taxes yet they receive those services anyway therefore I am being forced to support religious institutions and so called nonprofits via the laws that give them preferential status.

I really don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

And there is the first amendment violation issue as well.

You are not supporting anything. It's not like you always use police, or fire services. They are background services available to all, even those who don't pay taxes, such as visitors.

 

[ding]

Nothing so subtle. We just don't like bullies. And we won't support a government that facilitates bullies.

I'm not a fan of bullies either. I'm also not a fan of amorality. There are things we should stand for and stand against.

Nothing amoral about not wanting preferential treatment of churches and so called nonprofits at the expense of everyone, quite the opposite really/

The irony is that the tax exemption is a direct violation of the First Amendment. Government giving approved religions special status is exactly why they wrote the amendment.

First of all the establishment clause was written to prevent the Federal government with interfering with the established state religions of which half of the states had at the time the constitution was ratified.

Secondly, if all religions are treated the same, there is no special treatment.

And lastly, taxing religious organizations would be in violation of the establishment clause.

No it would not.

Passing a law that gives religions preferential treatment violates the first amendment because it is a law respecting an establishment of religion. Not only that because there is the preferential tax treatment the government can censor what the clergy of a church say to the members of that church therefore it is a twofold violation.

There's no preferential treatment.

You don't see the irony of your argument? Is your argument that some religion is being discriminated against?

 

[Skull Pilot]

How many times do I have to tell you that nonprofits should not have preferential treatment.

But the fact is Congress did indeed pass a law favoring religious establishments.

Just more of your butthurt showing.

Excuse the fuck out of me for thinking that no establishment should have preferred legal status.

Tell you what all you religious wackos start paying 100% for your churches instead of using tax money

Which Churches get Tax money?

By being exempt from different taxes but still receiving the services those taxes pay for churches and so called nonprofits are being supported by everyone who pays those taxes

It isn't rocket science

So you would be ok denying services to poor people who don't pay taxes as well?

Poor people are not legally exempt from any taxes. They still have to pay income tax if their AGI is high enough, they still pay sales taxes, excise taxes, and they do pay property taxes if they own a home or even if they rent as the rent calculation takes into account the landlord's property taxes.

Why do we give churches and so called nonprofits a pass on the taxes everyone else pays.

All any business has to do to be nonprofit is to show zero profit at the end of every year there is no special status needed.

Now sales and property taxes from which these so called nonprofits and churches are exempt are used to fund municipal services which these churches and so called nonprofit businesses use by giving them a pass you are forcing all American citizens to subsidize religion and so called nonprofits aren't you?

AND since these entities have this preferential tax status, the government can censor the clergy of any church and the board of directors of any nonprofit

and that is another violation of the first amendment

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm not a fan of bullies either. I'm also not a fan of amorality. There are things we should stand for and stand against.

Nothing amoral about not wanting preferential treatment of churches and so called nonprofits at the expense of everyone, quite the opposite really/

The irony is that the tax exemption is a direct violation of the First Amendment. Government giving approved religions special status is exactly why they wrote the amendment.

First of all the establishment clause was written to prevent the Federal government with interfering with the established state religions of which half of the states had at the time the constitution was ratified.

Secondly, if all religions are treated the same, there is no special treatment.

And lastly, taxing religious organizations would be in violation of the establishment clause.

No it would not.

Passing a law that gives religions preferential treatment violates the first amendment because it is a law respecting an establishment of religion. Not only that because there is the preferential tax treatment the government can censor what the clergy of a church say to the members of that church therefore it is a twofold violation.

There's no preferential treatment.

You don't see the irony of your argument? Is your argument that some religion is being discriminated against?

Being legally tax exempt is not preferential treatment?

NO I am saying that we are being forced to pay for services that religious establishments use even though they pay no taxes.

 

[Skull Pilot]

In this case yes they do.

No business, no person in the USA should be given preferential legal status.

But you want exactly that

What you call preferential is just specifics.

What makes you butthurt about it is that you hate religious people and any specifics about them enrages you.

I don't hate anyone. You are free to worship whatever you want just don't ask other people to support your religion with tax breaks

I just don't want to support religious institutions with my tax dollars.

Again, the progressive concept of money not belonging to the people who have it, but to the people as a whole or the government.

So am I progressive or right wing since you sheep have called me both?.
The tax I pay that churches don't is to cover my use of the services those taxes fund. Churches and so called nonprofits do not pay these taxes yet they receive those services anyway therefore I am being forced to support religious institutions and so called nonprofits via the laws that give them preferential status.

I really don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

And there is the first amendment violation issue as well.

You are not supporting anything. It's not like you always use police, or fire services. They are background services available to all, even those who don't pay taxes, such as visitors.

Of course we are.

And visitors still pay sales taxes when they visit don't they?

These so called background services need to be paid for by anyone who may use them. There is no reason to give any establishment a pass on any taxes

 

[Weatherman2020]

Funny how the left attack charity. Why it's almost as if they hate the poor.
Which looking at their track record, they do.

There can still be charities they just need to pay taxes like every other business

Why is it so important for you to take money from the poor?

That's funny.

Why should my taxes support charities I may not want to give to?
Why should my taxes support religious institutions?

YOUR taxes? WTF are you talking about? You think everything with In God We Trust is YOURS?

Typical retarded leftist dreaming his commie dreams.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Zero churches do.

Irreleveant

Once again proving my point for me.

Only to yourself

No, dude. It's all there in black and white. I showed you exactly how a church is not a business.

And you are wrong.


Churches are held to the same standards that other businesses are except they get special tax exemptions which violate the first amendment

Churches are held to the same standards that other businesses are except they get special tax exemptions which violate the first amendment

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a late nominee for the most clueless and dumbest post on USMB for 2017.

 

[martybegan]

Just more of your butthurt showing.

Excuse the fuck out of me for thinking that no establishment should have preferred legal status.

Tell you what all you religious wackos start paying 100% for your churches instead of using tax money

Which Churches get Tax money?

By being exempt from different taxes but still receiving the services those taxes pay for churches and so called nonprofits are being supported by everyone who pays those taxes

It isn't rocket science

So you would be ok denying services to poor people who don't pay taxes as well?

Poor people are not legally exempt from any taxes. They still have to pay income tax if their AGI is high enough, they still pay sales taxes, excise taxes, and they do pay property taxes if they own a home or even if they rent as the rent calculation takes into account the landlord's property taxes.

Why do we give churches and so called nonprofits a pass on the taxes everyone else pays.

All any business has to do to be nonprofit is to show zero profit at the end of every year there is no special status needed.

Now sales and property taxes from which these so called nonprofits and churches are exempt are used to fund municipal services which these churches and so called nonprofit businesses use by giving them a pass you are forcing all American citizens to subsidize religion and so called nonprofits aren't you?

AND since these entities have this preferential tax status, the government can censor the clergy of any church and the board of directors of any nonprofit

and that is another violation of the first amendment

I don't care about it because I am not a butthurt anti-religious bigot.

"Fuh fuh fuh, prove no profit, fuh fuh fuh"

 

[martybegan]

What you call preferential is just specifics.

What makes you butthurt about it is that you hate religious people and any specifics about them enrages you.

I don't hate anyone. You are free to worship whatever you want just don't ask other people to support your religion with tax breaks

I just don't want to support religious institutions with my tax dollars.

Again, the progressive concept of money not belonging to the people who have it, but to the people as a whole or the government.

So am I progressive or right wing since you sheep have called me both?.
The tax I pay that churches don't is to cover my use of the services those taxes fund. Churches and so called nonprofits do not pay these taxes yet they receive those services anyway therefore I am being forced to support religious institutions and so called nonprofits via the laws that give them preferential status.

I really don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

And there is the first amendment violation issue as well.

You are not supporting anything. It's not like you always use police, or fire services. They are background services available to all, even those who don't pay taxes, such as visitors.

Of course we are.

And visitors still pay sales taxes when they visit don't they?

These so called background services need to be paid for by anyone who may use them. There is no reason to give any establishment a pass on any taxes

Priests pay sales taxes on items not having to do with religious services or charitable work.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Excuse the fuck out of me for thinking that no establishment should have preferred legal status.

Tell you what all you religious wackos start paying 100% for your churches instead of using tax money

Which Churches get Tax money?

By being exempt from different taxes but still receiving the services those taxes pay for churches and so called nonprofits are being supported by everyone who pays those taxes

It isn't rocket science

So you would be ok denying services to poor people who don't pay taxes as well?

Poor people are not legally exempt from any taxes. They still have to pay income tax if their AGI is high enough, they still pay sales taxes, excise taxes, and they do pay property taxes if they own a home or even if they rent as the rent calculation takes into account the landlord's property taxes.

Why do we give churches and so called nonprofits a pass on the taxes everyone else pays.

All any business has to do to be nonprofit is to show zero profit at the end of every year there is no special status needed.

Now sales and property taxes from which these so called nonprofits and churches are exempt are used to fund municipal services which these churches and so called nonprofit businesses use by giving them a pass you are forcing all American citizens to subsidize religion and so called nonprofits aren't you?

AND since these entities have this preferential tax status, the government can censor the clergy of any church and the board of directors of any nonprofit

and that is another violation of the first amendment

I don't care about it because I am not a butthurt anti-religious bigot.

"Fuh fuh fuh, prove no profit, fuh fuh fuh"

Note how he never mentions other tax exempt institutions like the Smithsonian, every museum, Clinton Foundation, etc etc.
It's those damn Christians helping the poor keeping him up at night foaming at the mouth