The Numbers Don't Lie!

[Kosh]

It is often reported that the temperature of the earth is higher the past 20 years than it has ever been in history. This is simply not true, nor has it ever been. Hundreds of research studies using ice cores, pollen sedimentation, tree rings, etc. have shown that there were dozens of periods in the past 11,000 years (the Holocene period) that earth's temperature was warmer than it is today. Earth's temperature was very much warmer at least four times during the current interglacial period.

 

[mamooth]

Poor Kosh has no idea what he's posting, and literally doesn't care that it's been debunked a dozen times. He just posts it all again, regardless. A more loyal cult parrot you won't find.

 

[Old Rocks]

The lie is that man is responsible for it. Those amounts are nothing compared to the heat active volcanoes pour into the atmosphere. Our earth cools and heats. There was a northwest passage, and then there wasn't, and then there was. There was an age of ice, and an age of receding ice. The money making gimmick was to blame it on us and then tax and spend us to death.

Mankind IS responsible for it, you flaming retard.

The amount of heat given off by volcanoes is utterly insignificant compared to the amount of energy the Earth receives every minute from the sun. Moreover, you ignorant rightwingnutjob, volcanic activity has not increased at all over the last two centuries compared to the previous 5000 years in which the Earth was slowly cooling.

There has never been a "northwest passage" open to shipping in all of human history. You're full of idiotic denier cult myths (as well as enormous amounts of bullshit).

There was an "ice age" that lasted almost 100,000 years and ended about 12,000 years ago, moron. Scientists are clear on the reasons why the "ice age" occurred and the reasons why it ended. The ice stopped "receding" from that "ice age" over ten thousand years ago, and then about five thousand years ago the Earth started slowly cooling. Until a century or so ago when mankind's carbon emissions began to upset an atmospheric balance of CO2 that had naturally stayed under 300ppm for millions of years, and started an abrupt warming trend. Now CO2 levels are over 400ppm. Scientists have determined that the last time CO2 levels were this high, and were sustained at this level for awhile, was 15 million years ago when temperatures were 5 to 10 degrees hotter than present and sea levels were 70 to 120 feet higher than they are now. Meanwhile mankind is busily still increasing atmospheric CO2 levels which may wind up doubling (or more) the old pre-industrial CO2 levels of 280ppm.

Last Time Carbon Dioxide Levels Were This High: 15 Million Years Ago, Scientists Report

Science is clear as to why the ice age started and stopped?

Yes, scientists are fairly clear as to the causes of the previous periods of heavy glaciation and the reasons they ended.

Slight long term changes in the Earth's orbit and axial tilt seem to be the primary triggers for the beginning and ending of these "ice ages", although changes in greenhouse gas (CO2) levels also play an important role.

Link?

Sure.
Causes of Ice Ages

From your link:

The causes of ice ages are not fully understood for either the large-scale ice age periods or the smaller ebb and flow of glacial–interglacial periods within an ice age.

My guess is that they "know" what caused the ice ages about as well as their models work today.

Mark

Well now, Mark, you can guess all you want. But scientists have to present evidence gathered with a credible methodology. And when they do that, what people like you say is irrelevant. If you are too damned lazy to do the research with that instrument you use to post on this board, why should anyone listen to you?

 

[80zephyr]

Sometimes you guys sound like you think that humans have no more impact on the natural world than a bunch of racoons.

Well, since it is a fact that termites contribute more to global warming, you aren't far off.

So, zipforbrains, what is your problem anyway.....congenital retardation?,,.,delusional bamboozled ignorance?....anti-science rightwingnut corporate stooge?....paid troll???

Your supposed "fact" is not an actual fact. It is an idiotic and fraudulent propaganda meme. Mankind is currently pumping about 36 billion metric tonnes of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere every year. Mankind has raised CO2 levels by about 43% over the pre-industrial levels, which had stayed fairly steady for the last ten thousand years and which are now higher than they have ever been in the last 15 million years. The increased CO2 levels are responsible for the large majority of the global warming the Earth is experiencing. Methane accounts for most of the rest and humans have more than doubled atmospheric methane levels over their natural pre-industrial levels. Termites are one of the largest natural sources of methane but they produce less than the other natural sources combined and they produce far less than humans do; while all of the methane, both natural sources and the increasing anthropogenic sources, is subordinate to the rising CO2 levels as a cause of the current warming trend. Humans ARE responsible for the current global warming and its consequent climate changes, as the world scientific community very clearly affirms.

Termites are producing the same amount of methane they always have, for the last ten thousand years. There is no sudden change in their methane production that could be conceivably linked to the current abrupt warming trend, you ignorant, illogical denier cult dumbass.

Methane
(excerpts)
Methane (CH4) is by far the most important non-CO2 greenhouse gas - a relatively potent greenhouse gas responsible for nearly as much global warming as all other non-CO2 greenhouse gases put together. Methane is created naturally near the Earth's surface by microorganisms by the process of methanogenesis and carried into the stratosphere by rising air in the tropics. It is important because of the potential harm it has for global warming, but it also has value as an energy source. There is much less methane in the atmosphere than CO2: about 1800 parts per billion (ppb), compared with an estimated 390 parts per million of CO2. However its potential for global warming has been estimated at 25 times greater than CO2 . While CO2 emissions are estimated to contribute 75% to global warming effects, methane is a distant second at 15%. And as with other greenhouse gases, methane levels have been rising; they are now more than twice what they were in the early 1800s when methane levels were closer to 715ppb. Half of current emissions is human-related which includes landfills, agriculture and coal mining.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) estimates that atmospheric concentrations are about two and a half times those seen in pre-industrial times. "A fifth of all greenhouse gas-induced global warming has been due to methane since pre-industrial times," said Australian climate scientist Paul Fraser. Pound for pound, methane warms the climate 22 times more than CO2 over a 100-year period. The oil and gas industry is the single largest emitter of human-caused methane in the United States and the second largest industrial source of domestic greenhouse gas emissions behind only electric power plants. The EPA has determined that oil and natural gas production wells, gathering lines, processing facilities, storage tanks and transmission and distribution pipelines emit over 15 million metric tons of methane annually – the equivalent of the annual greenhouse gas emission of 64 million cars. link

Methane is produced in environments with little or no oxygen by bacteria that feast on decomposing organic matter, such as grasses and wood. Almost half of the world’s methane comes from natural sources such as wetlands, rivers and streams, gas hydrates on the ocean floor, and permafrost. Termites, surprisingly, are the second largest source of global natural methane emissions; they produce the gas as part of their normal digestive process. Human-related activity is responsible for the other half of global emissions. Methane is released from the extraction and burning of fossil fuels for electricity and transportation; from rice paddies, landfills, and from cattle.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers. I never claimed that termites haven't been contributing to global warming for thousands of years.

My claim(correctly) is that they do indeed contribute as much as humans do. It appears that you believe that since they were "doing it first" and that it is "natural" cancels out the "right" of humans to do so as well.

It doesn't.

Human evolution is as natural as termites are. We evolved to use these fuels. Our use of them are as "natural" as termites contributions are.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

The lie is that man is responsible for it. Those amounts are nothing compared to the heat active volcanoes pour into the atmosphere. Our earth cools and heats. There was a northwest passage, and then there wasn't, and then there was. There was an age of ice, and an age of receding ice. The money making gimmick was to blame it on us and then tax and spend us to death.

Mankind IS responsible for it, you flaming retard.

The amount of heat given off by volcanoes is utterly insignificant compared to the amount of energy the Earth receives every minute from the sun. Moreover, you ignorant rightwingnutjob, volcanic activity has not increased at all over the last two centuries compared to the previous 5000 years in which the Earth was slowly cooling.

There has never been a "northwest passage" open to shipping in all of human history. You're full of idiotic denier cult myths (as well as enormous amounts of bullshit).

There was an "ice age" that lasted almost 100,000 years and ended about 12,000 years ago, moron. Scientists are clear on the reasons why the "ice age" occurred and the reasons why it ended. The ice stopped "receding" from that "ice age" over ten thousand years ago, and then about five thousand years ago the Earth started slowly cooling. Until a century or so ago when mankind's carbon emissions began to upset an atmospheric balance of CO2 that had naturally stayed under 300ppm for millions of years, and started an abrupt warming trend. Now CO2 levels are over 400ppm. Scientists have determined that the last time CO2 levels were this high, and were sustained at this level for awhile, was 15 million years ago when temperatures were 5 to 10 degrees hotter than present and sea levels were 70 to 120 feet higher than they are now. Meanwhile mankind is busily still increasing atmospheric CO2 levels which may wind up doubling (or more) the old pre-industrial CO2 levels of 280ppm.

Last Time Carbon Dioxide Levels Were This High: 15 Million Years Ago, Scientists Report

Science is clear as to why the ice age started and stopped?

Yes, scientists are fairly clear as to the causes of the previous periods of heavy glaciation and the reasons they ended.

Slight long term changes in the Earth's orbit and axial tilt seem to be the primary triggers for the beginning and ending of these "ice ages", although changes in greenhouse gas (CO2) levels also play an important role.

Link?

Sure.
Causes of Ice Ages

From your link:

The causes of ice ages are not fully understood for either the large-scale ice age periods or the smaller ebb and flow of glacial–interglacial periods within an ice age.

My guess is that they "know" what caused the ice ages about as well as their models work today.

Mark

Well now, Mark, you can guess all you want. But scientists have to present evidence gathered with a credible methodology. And when they do that, what people like you say is irrelevant. If you are too damned lazy to do the research with that instrument you use to post on this board, why should anyone listen to you?

Climatology is a "recent" science. These scientists that "know" what is happening to our climate is analogous to the cave men that did brain surgery with rock tools that were just as sure of success.

Our knowledge of climate is too limited to even begin to guess what is happening, much less predict the future.

As to my "being lazy", I look at the facts to make my decisions. Maybe when the scientists get models that constantly "get it right", I pay them some heed, but as of right now, I could predict better flipping a coin.

Should I also be listening to the scientist that have told me that trans fats are good, that we have reached peak oil, and that the world will be facing mass starvation at the turn of the century?

Or should I use my own reasoning power to understand their limitations in making such a claim?

You believe what you must. The overwhelming evidence so far shows me what to believe.

Mark

 

[RollingThunder]

Sometimes you guys sound like you think that humans have no more impact on the natural world than a bunch of racoons.

Well, since it is a fact that termites contribute more to global warming, you aren't far off.

So, zipforbrains, what is your problem anyway.....congenital retardation?,,.,delusional bamboozled ignorance?....anti-science rightwingnut corporate stooge?....paid troll???

Your supposed "fact" is not an actual fact. It is an idiotic and fraudulent propaganda meme. Mankind is currently pumping about 36 billion metric tonnes of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere every year. Mankind has raised CO2 levels by about 43% over the pre-industrial levels, which had stayed fairly steady for the last ten thousand years and which are now higher than they have ever been in the last 15 million years. The increased CO2 levels are responsible for the large majority of the global warming the Earth is experiencing. Methane accounts for most of the rest and humans have more than doubled atmospheric methane levels over their natural pre-industrial levels. Termites are one of the largest natural sources of methane but they produce less than the other natural sources combined and they produce far less than humans do; while all of the methane, both natural sources and the increasing anthropogenic sources, is subordinate to the rising CO2 levels as a cause of the current warming trend. Humans ARE responsible for the current global warming and its consequent climate changes, as the world scientific community very clearly affirms.

Termites are producing the same amount of methane they always have, for the last ten thousand years. There is no sudden change in their methane production that could be conceivably linked to the current abrupt warming trend, you ignorant, illogical denier cult dumbass.

Methane
(excerpts)
Methane (CH4) is by far the most important non-CO2 greenhouse gas - a relatively potent greenhouse gas responsible for nearly as much global warming as all other non-CO2 greenhouse gases put together. Methane is created naturally near the Earth's surface by microorganisms by the process of methanogenesis and carried into the stratosphere by rising air in the tropics. It is important because of the potential harm it has for global warming, but it also has value as an energy source. There is much less methane in the atmosphere than CO2: about 1800 parts per billion (ppb), compared with an estimated 390 parts per million of CO2. However its potential for global warming has been estimated at 25 times greater than CO2 . While CO2 emissions are estimated to contribute 75% to global warming effects, methane is a distant second at 15%. And as with other greenhouse gases, methane levels have been rising; they are now more than twice what they were in the early 1800s when methane levels were closer to 715ppb. Half of current emissions is human-related which includes landfills, agriculture and coal mining.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) estimates that atmospheric concentrations are about two and a half times those seen in pre-industrial times. "A fifth of all greenhouse gas-induced global warming has been due to methane since pre-industrial times," said Australian climate scientist Paul Fraser. Pound for pound, methane warms the climate 22 times more than CO2 over a 100-year period. The oil and gas industry is the single largest emitter of human-caused methane in the United States and the second largest industrial source of domestic greenhouse gas emissions behind only electric power plants. The EPA has determined that oil and natural gas production wells, gathering lines, processing facilities, storage tanks and transmission and distribution pipelines emit over 15 million metric tons of methane annually – the equivalent of the annual greenhouse gas emission of 64 million cars. link

Methane is produced in environments with little or no oxygen by bacteria that feast on decomposing organic matter, such as grasses and wood. Almost half of the world’s methane comes from natural sources such as wetlands, rivers and streams, gas hydrates on the ocean floor, and permafrost. Termites, surprisingly, are the second largest source of global natural methane emissions; they produce the gas as part of their normal digestive process. Human-related activity is responsible for the other half of global emissions. Methane is released from the extraction and burning of fossil fuels for electricity and transportation; from rice paddies, landfills, and from cattle.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers.

You seem determined to achieve that result (wrong answers) using only your native ignorance, complete lack of intelligence and your gullibility. Congratulations. You succeeded in demonstrating what a complete retard you are.

My claim(correctly) is that they do indeed contribute as much as humans do.

False twice. What you said was: "it is a fact that termites contribute more to global warming" than humans do. That's completely fase, as the article I quoted clearly showed. Now you're lying again and saying you claimed that termites contribute to global warming only as much as humans do. That is also quite false. You are a lying troll, trying to deny reality. Reality laughs at you.

Termites produce methane, moron, but....

While CO2 emissions are estimated to contribute 75% to global warming effects, methane is a distant second at 15%.

Methane levels have been rising; they are now more than twice what they were in the early 1800s when methane levels were closer to 715ppb. Half of current emissions are human-related.

Almost half of the world’s methane comes from natural sources such as wetlands, rivers and streams, gas hydrates on the ocean floor, cattle flatulence, and permafrost. Termites, surprisingly, are the second largest source of global natural methane emissions.

Human-related activity is responsible for the other half of global methane emissions.

ALL of the global methane emissions only account for about 15% of the current observed global warming, with human-caused CO2 emissions producing 75% of the warming, and since humans are also responsible for half of the methane emissions, and termites only produce a fraction of the other half, with their contribution remaining unchanged for thousands of years, humans are entirely responsible for the current abrupt warming trend and termites bear no responsibility. They are part of the natural processes of methane and CO2 emissions and sequestration that had remained in a homeostatic balance for eons before human came along and started upsetting the natural balances by burning immense quantities of fossil carbon that had been sequestered over millions of years. Since 1750, humans have added about 2000 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide to the Earth's atmosphere, raising CO2 levels by 43% so far, in addition to over doubling natural atmospheric methane levels.

It appears that you believe that since they were "doing it first" and that it is "natural" cancels out the "right" of humans to do so as well. It doesn't. Human evolution is as natural as termites are. We evolved to use these fuels. Our use of them are as "natural" as termites contributions are.

LOLOL. Laughably insane nonsense. You are a loon, and you are far too retarded to have any idea what I "believe".

 

[Old Rocks]

Mankind IS responsible for it, you flaming retard.

The amount of heat given off by volcanoes is utterly insignificant compared to the amount of energy the Earth receives every minute from the sun. Moreover, you ignorant rightwingnutjob, volcanic activity has not increased at all over the last two centuries compared to the previous 5000 years in which the Earth was slowly cooling.

There has never been a "northwest passage" open to shipping in all of human history. You're full of idiotic denier cult myths (as well as enormous amounts of bullshit).

There was an "ice age" that lasted almost 100,000 years and ended about 12,000 years ago, moron. Scientists are clear on the reasons why the "ice age" occurred and the reasons why it ended. The ice stopped "receding" from that "ice age" over ten thousand years ago, and then about five thousand years ago the Earth started slowly cooling. Until a century or so ago when mankind's carbon emissions began to upset an atmospheric balance of CO2 that had naturally stayed under 300ppm for millions of years, and started an abrupt warming trend. Now CO2 levels are over 400ppm. Scientists have determined that the last time CO2 levels were this high, and were sustained at this level for awhile, was 15 million years ago when temperatures were 5 to 10 degrees hotter than present and sea levels were 70 to 120 feet higher than they are now. Meanwhile mankind is busily still increasing atmospheric CO2 levels which may wind up doubling (or more) the old pre-industrial CO2 levels of 280ppm.

Last Time Carbon Dioxide Levels Were This High: 15 Million Years Ago, Scientists Report

Science is clear as to why the ice age started and stopped?

Yes, scientists are fairly clear as to the causes of the previous periods of heavy glaciation and the reasons they ended.

Slight long term changes in the Earth's orbit and axial tilt seem to be the primary triggers for the beginning and ending of these "ice ages", although changes in greenhouse gas (CO2) levels also play an important role.

Link?

Sure.
Causes of Ice Ages

From your link:

The causes of ice ages are not fully understood for either the large-scale ice age periods or the smaller ebb and flow of glacial–interglacial periods within an ice age.

My guess is that they "know" what caused the ice ages about as well as their models work today.

Mark

Well now, Mark, you can guess all you want. But scientists have to present evidence gathered with a credible methodology. And when they do that, what people like you say is irrelevant. If you are too damned lazy to do the research with that instrument you use to post on this board, why should anyone listen to you?

Climatology is a "recent" science. These scientists that "know" what is happening to our climate is analogous to the cave men that did brain surgery with rock tools that were just as sure of success.

Our knowledge of climate is too limited to even begin to guess what is happening, much less predict the future.

As to my "being lazy", I look at the facts to make my decisions. Maybe when the scientists get models that constantly "get it right", I pay them some heed, but as of right now, I could predict better flipping a coin.

Should I also be listening to the scientist that have told me that trans fats are good, that we have reached peak oil, and that the world will be facing mass starvation at the turn of the century?

Or should I use my own reasoning power to understand their limitations in making such a claim?

You believe what you must. The overwhelming evidence so far shows me what to believe.

Mark

In 1981, Dr. Hansen wrote a paper that predicted the opening of the Northwest Passage. In the paper, he also predicted the droughts we are seeing the the Southwest of this nation, and those we are seeing in Asia. He predicted these things to happen shortly after the turn of the century, and he was correct on all counts.

In the meantime, the deniers were stating there was no warming, period. By the late '90's, they started the chorus of 'Well yes, there was a warming, but it was from natural causes'. But they can's seem to be able to name the causes.

The overwhelming evidence is that you are going to ignore reality and believe what you want in spite of all the evidence.

 

[Mustang]

Sometimes you guys sound like you think that humans have no more impact on the natural world than a bunch of racoons.

Well, since it is a fact that termites contribute more to global warming, you aren't far off.

So, zipforbrains, what is your problem anyway.....congenital retardation?,,.,delusional bamboozled ignorance?....anti-science rightwingnut corporate stooge?....paid troll???

Your supposed "fact" is not an actual fact. It is an idiotic and fraudulent propaganda meme. Mankind is currently pumping about 36 billion metric tonnes of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere every year. Mankind has raised CO2 levels by about 43% over the pre-industrial levels, which had stayed fairly steady for the last ten thousand years and which are now higher than they have ever been in the last 15 million years. The increased CO2 levels are responsible for the large majority of the global warming the Earth is experiencing. Methane accounts for most of the rest and humans have more than doubled atmospheric methane levels over their natural pre-industrial levels. Termites are one of the largest natural sources of methane but they produce less than the other natural sources combined and they produce far less than humans do; while all of the methane, both natural sources and the increasing anthropogenic sources, is subordinate to the rising CO2 levels as a cause of the current warming trend. Humans ARE responsible for the current global warming and its consequent climate changes, as the world scientific community very clearly affirms.

Termites are producing the same amount of methane they always have, for the last ten thousand years. There is no sudden change in their methane production that could be conceivably linked to the current abrupt warming trend, you ignorant, illogical denier cult dumbass.

Methane
(excerpts)
Methane (CH4) is by far the most important non-CO2 greenhouse gas - a relatively potent greenhouse gas responsible for nearly as much global warming as all other non-CO2 greenhouse gases put together. Methane is created naturally near the Earth's surface by microorganisms by the process of methanogenesis and carried into the stratosphere by rising air in the tropics. It is important because of the potential harm it has for global warming, but it also has value as an energy source. There is much less methane in the atmosphere than CO2: about 1800 parts per billion (ppb), compared with an estimated 390 parts per million of CO2. However its potential for global warming has been estimated at 25 times greater than CO2 . While CO2 emissions are estimated to contribute 75% to global warming effects, methane is a distant second at 15%. And as with other greenhouse gases, methane levels have been rising; they are now more than twice what they were in the early 1800s when methane levels were closer to 715ppb. Half of current emissions is human-related which includes landfills, agriculture and coal mining.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) estimates that atmospheric concentrations are about two and a half times those seen in pre-industrial times. "A fifth of all greenhouse gas-induced global warming has been due to methane since pre-industrial times," said Australian climate scientist Paul Fraser. Pound for pound, methane warms the climate 22 times more than CO2 over a 100-year period. The oil and gas industry is the single largest emitter of human-caused methane in the United States and the second largest industrial source of domestic greenhouse gas emissions behind only electric power plants. The EPA has determined that oil and natural gas production wells, gathering lines, processing facilities, storage tanks and transmission and distribution pipelines emit over 15 million metric tons of methane annually – the equivalent of the annual greenhouse gas emission of 64 million cars. link

Methane is produced in environments with little or no oxygen by bacteria that feast on decomposing organic matter, such as grasses and wood. Almost half of the world’s methane comes from natural sources such as wetlands, rivers and streams, gas hydrates on the ocean floor, and permafrost. Termites, surprisingly, are the second largest source of global natural methane emissions; they produce the gas as part of their normal digestive process. Human-related activity is responsible for the other half of global emissions. Methane is released from the extraction and burning of fossil fuels for electricity and transportation; from rice paddies, landfills, and from cattle.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers. I never claimed that termites haven't been contributing to global warming for thousands of years.

My claim(correctly) is that they do indeed contribute as much as humans do. It appears that you believe that since they were "doing it first" and that it is "natural" cancels out the "right" of humans to do so as well.

It doesn't.

Human evolution is as natural as termites are. We evolved to use these fuels. Our use of them are as "natural" as termites contributions are.

Mark

Your post reveals your ignorance on several fronts.

First of all, asking the wrong questions doesn't automatically lead to the wrong answers as long as the people doing the asking are willing to look at the facts. Scientists understand that perfectly well since they can later on dismiss an inquiry as being a blind alley or a dead end.

Secondly, while the production of methane from termites IS a natural occurrence, the same is not true of humans who dig up carbon that's been buried for millions of years and burn it. That's an interruption of the natural occurring cycle.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Tell me Moron, where is your study which show exactly what mans contribution is to the CO2 rise, how you determined it, and what effect it has had on global temps... were still Waiting...

PS, Show your work and make available your methodology with data.

IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

Now where is yours?

A POLITICAL PAPER... not even scientific in any manner...

They still believe the 1 to 6 ratio when empirical evidence has shown it a lie...

 

[Billy_Bob]

Science is clear as to why the ice age started and stopped?

Yes, scientists are fairly clear as to the causes of the previous periods of heavy glaciation and the reasons they ended.

Slight long term changes in the Earth's orbit and axial tilt seem to be the primary triggers for the beginning and ending of these "ice ages", although changes in greenhouse gas (CO2) levels also play an important role.

Link?

Sure.
Causes of Ice Ages

From your link:

The causes of ice ages are not fully understood for either the large-scale ice age periods or the smaller ebb and flow of glacial–interglacial periods within an ice age.

My guess is that they "know" what caused the ice ages about as well as their models work today.

Mark

Well now, Mark, you can guess all you want. But scientists have to present evidence gathered with a credible methodology. And when they do that, what people like you say is irrelevant. If you are too damned lazy to do the research with that instrument you use to post on this board, why should anyone listen to you?

Climatology is a "recent" science. These scientists that "know" what is happening to our climate is analogous to the cave men that did brain surgery with rock tools that were just as sure of success.

Our knowledge of climate is too limited to even begin to guess what is happening, much less predict the future.

As to my "being lazy", I look at the facts to make my decisions. Maybe when the scientists get models that constantly "get it right", I pay them some heed, but as of right now, I could predict better flipping a coin.

Should I also be listening to the scientist that have told me that trans fats are good, that we have reached peak oil, and that the world will be facing mass starvation at the turn of the century?

Or should I use my own reasoning power to understand their limitations in making such a claim?

You believe what you must. The overwhelming evidence so far shows me what to believe.

Mark

In 1981, Dr. Hansen wrote a paper that predicted the opening of the Northwest Passage. In the paper, he also predicted the droughts we are seeing the the Southwest of this nation, and those we are seeing in Asia. He predicted these things to happen shortly after the turn of the century, and he was correct on all counts.

In the meantime, the deniers were stating there was no warming, period. By the late '90's, they started the chorus of 'Well yes, there was a warming, but it was from natural causes'. But they can's seem to be able to name the causes.

The overwhelming evidence is that you are going to ignore reality and believe what you want in spite of all the evidence.

Quoting a debunked paper by the liar James Hansen...

 

[Billy_Bob]

Sometimes you guys sound like you think that humans have no more impact on the natural world than a bunch of racoons.

Well, since it is a fact that termites contribute more to global warming, you aren't far off.

So, zipforbrains, what is your problem anyway.....congenital retardation?,,.,delusional bamboozled ignorance?....anti-science rightwingnut corporate stooge?....paid troll???

Your supposed "fact" is not an actual fact. It is an idiotic and fraudulent propaganda meme. Mankind is currently pumping about 36 billion metric tonnes of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere every year. Mankind has raised CO2 levels by about 43% over the pre-industrial levels, which had stayed fairly steady for the last ten thousand years and which are now higher than they have ever been in the last 15 million years. The increased CO2 levels are responsible for the large majority of the global warming the Earth is experiencing. Methane accounts for most of the rest and humans have more than doubled atmospheric methane levels over their natural pre-industrial levels. Termites are one of the largest natural sources of methane but they produce less than the other natural sources combined and they produce far less than humans do; while all of the methane, both natural sources and the increasing anthropogenic sources, is subordinate to the rising CO2 levels as a cause of the current warming trend. Humans ARE responsible for the current global warming and its consequent climate changes, as the world scientific community very clearly affirms.

Termites are producing the same amount of methane they always have, for the last ten thousand years. There is no sudden change in their methane production that could be conceivably linked to the current abrupt warming trend, you ignorant, illogical denier cult dumbass.

Methane
(excerpts)
Methane (CH4) is by far the most important non-CO2 greenhouse gas - a relatively potent greenhouse gas responsible for nearly as much global warming as all other non-CO2 greenhouse gases put together. Methane is created naturally near the Earth's surface by microorganisms by the process of methanogenesis and carried into the stratosphere by rising air in the tropics. It is important because of the potential harm it has for global warming, but it also has value as an energy source. There is much less methane in the atmosphere than CO2: about 1800 parts per billion (ppb), compared with an estimated 390 parts per million of CO2. However its potential for global warming has been estimated at 25 times greater than CO2 . While CO2 emissions are estimated to contribute 75% to global warming effects, methane is a distant second at 15%. And as with other greenhouse gases, methane levels have been rising; they are now more than twice what they were in the early 1800s when methane levels were closer to 715ppb. Half of current emissions is human-related which includes landfills, agriculture and coal mining.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) estimates that atmospheric concentrations are about two and a half times those seen in pre-industrial times. "A fifth of all greenhouse gas-induced global warming has been due to methane since pre-industrial times," said Australian climate scientist Paul Fraser. Pound for pound, methane warms the climate 22 times more than CO2 over a 100-year period. The oil and gas industry is the single largest emitter of human-caused methane in the United States and the second largest industrial source of domestic greenhouse gas emissions behind only electric power plants. The EPA has determined that oil and natural gas production wells, gathering lines, processing facilities, storage tanks and transmission and distribution pipelines emit over 15 million metric tons of methane annually – the equivalent of the annual greenhouse gas emission of 64 million cars. link

Methane is produced in environments with little or no oxygen by bacteria that feast on decomposing organic matter, such as grasses and wood. Almost half of the world’s methane comes from natural sources such as wetlands, rivers and streams, gas hydrates on the ocean floor, and permafrost. Termites, surprisingly, are the second largest source of global natural methane emissions; they produce the gas as part of their normal digestive process. Human-related activity is responsible for the other half of global emissions. Methane is released from the extraction and burning of fossil fuels for electricity and transportation; from rice paddies, landfills, and from cattle.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers. I never claimed that termites haven't been contributing to global warming for thousands of years.

My claim(correctly) is that they do indeed contribute as much as humans do. It appears that you believe that since they were "doing it first" and that it is "natural" cancels out the "right" of humans to do so as well.

It doesn't.

Human evolution is as natural as termites are. We evolved to use these fuels. Our use of them are as "natural" as termites contributions are.

Mark

Your post reveals your ignorance on several fronts.

First of all, asking the wrong questions doesn't automatically lead to the wrong answers as long as the people doing the asking are willing to look at the facts. Scientists understand that perfectly well since they can later on dismiss an inquiry as being a blind alley or a dead end.

Secondly, while the production of methane from termites IS a natural occurrence, the same is not true of humans who dig up carbon that's been buried for millions of years and burn it. That's an interruption of the natural occurring cycle.

Tell me, when the planet was at 7,000ppm and the temp remained within normal variation, what stopped it? Your straw man argument is on fire...

 

[80zephyr]

Sometimes you guys sound like you think that humans have no more impact on the natural world than a bunch of racoons.

Well, since it is a fact that termites contribute more to global warming, you aren't far off.

So, zipforbrains, what is your problem anyway.....congenital retardation?,,.,delusional bamboozled ignorance?....anti-science rightwingnut corporate stooge?....paid troll???

Your supposed "fact" is not an actual fact. It is an idiotic and fraudulent propaganda meme. Mankind is currently pumping about 36 billion metric tonnes of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere every year. Mankind has raised CO2 levels by about 43% over the pre-industrial levels, which had stayed fairly steady for the last ten thousand years and which are now higher than they have ever been in the last 15 million years. The increased CO2 levels are responsible for the large majority of the global warming the Earth is experiencing. Methane accounts for most of the rest and humans have more than doubled atmospheric methane levels over their natural pre-industrial levels. Termites are one of the largest natural sources of methane but they produce less than the other natural sources combined and they produce far less than humans do; while all of the methane, both natural sources and the increasing anthropogenic sources, is subordinate to the rising CO2 levels as a cause of the current warming trend. Humans ARE responsible for the current global warming and its consequent climate changes, as the world scientific community very clearly affirms.

Termites are producing the same amount of methane they always have, for the last ten thousand years. There is no sudden change in their methane production that could be conceivably linked to the current abrupt warming trend, you ignorant, illogical denier cult dumbass.

Methane
(excerpts)
Methane (CH4) is by far the most important non-CO2 greenhouse gas - a relatively potent greenhouse gas responsible for nearly as much global warming as all other non-CO2 greenhouse gases put together. Methane is created naturally near the Earth's surface by microorganisms by the process of methanogenesis and carried into the stratosphere by rising air in the tropics. It is important because of the potential harm it has for global warming, but it also has value as an energy source. There is much less methane in the atmosphere than CO2: about 1800 parts per billion (ppb), compared with an estimated 390 parts per million of CO2. However its potential for global warming has been estimated at 25 times greater than CO2 . While CO2 emissions are estimated to contribute 75% to global warming effects, methane is a distant second at 15%. And as with other greenhouse gases, methane levels have been rising; they are now more than twice what they were in the early 1800s when methane levels were closer to 715ppb. Half of current emissions is human-related which includes landfills, agriculture and coal mining.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) estimates that atmospheric concentrations are about two and a half times those seen in pre-industrial times. "A fifth of all greenhouse gas-induced global warming has been due to methane since pre-industrial times," said Australian climate scientist Paul Fraser. Pound for pound, methane warms the climate 22 times more than CO2 over a 100-year period. The oil and gas industry is the single largest emitter of human-caused methane in the United States and the second largest industrial source of domestic greenhouse gas emissions behind only electric power plants. The EPA has determined that oil and natural gas production wells, gathering lines, processing facilities, storage tanks and transmission and distribution pipelines emit over 15 million metric tons of methane annually – the equivalent of the annual greenhouse gas emission of 64 million cars. link

Methane is produced in environments with little or no oxygen by bacteria that feast on decomposing organic matter, such as grasses and wood. Almost half of the world’s methane comes from natural sources such as wetlands, rivers and streams, gas hydrates on the ocean floor, and permafrost. Termites, surprisingly, are the second largest source of global natural methane emissions; they produce the gas as part of their normal digestive process. Human-related activity is responsible for the other half of global emissions. Methane is released from the extraction and burning of fossil fuels for electricity and transportation; from rice paddies, landfills, and from cattle.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers.

You seem determined to achieve that result (wrong answers) using only your native ignorance, complete lack of intelligence and your gullibility. Congratulations. You succeeded in demonstrating what a complete retard you are.

My claim(correctly) is that they do indeed contribute as much as humans do.

False twice. What you said was: "it is a fact that termites contribute more to global warming" than humans do. That's completely fase, as the article I quoted clearly showed. Now you're lying again and saying you claimed that termites contribute to global warming only as much as humans do. That is also quite false. You are a lying troll, trying to deny reality. Reality laughs at you.

Termites produce methane, moron, but....

While CO2 emissions are estimated to contribute 75% to global warming effects, methane is a distant second at 15%.

Methane levels have been rising; they are now more than twice what they were in the early 1800s when methane levels were closer to 715ppb. Half of current emissions are human-related.

Almost half of the world’s methane comes from natural sources such as wetlands, rivers and streams, gas hydrates on the ocean floor, cattle flatulence, and permafrost. Termites, surprisingly, are the second largest source of global natural methane emissions.

Human-related activity is responsible for the other half of global methane emissions.

ALL of the global methane emissions only account for about 15% of the current observed global warming, with human-caused CO2 emissions producing 75% of the warming, and since humans are also responsible for half of the methane emissions, and termites only produce a fraction of the other half, with their contribution remaining unchanged for thousands of years, humans are entirely responsible for the current abrupt warming trend and termites bear no responsibility. They are part of the natural processes of methane and CO2 emissions and sequestration that had remained in a homeostatic balance for eons before human came along and started upsetting the natural balances by burning immense quantities of fossil carbon that had been sequestered over millions of years. Since 1750, humans have added about 2000 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide to the Earth's atmosphere, raising CO2 levels by 43% so far, in addition to over doubling natural atmospheric methane levels.

It appears that you believe that since they were "doing it first" and that it is "natural" cancels out the "right" of humans to do so as well. It doesn't. Human evolution is as natural as termites are. We evolved to use these fuels. Our use of them are as "natural" as termites contributions are.

LOLOL. Laughably insane nonsense. You are a loon, and you are far too retarded to have any idea what I "believe".

I don't have time for anyone who argues as "intelligently" as you do.

Your words tell me all I need to know about your ability to think.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

Science is clear as to why the ice age started and stopped?

Yes, scientists are fairly clear as to the causes of the previous periods of heavy glaciation and the reasons they ended.

Slight long term changes in the Earth's orbit and axial tilt seem to be the primary triggers for the beginning and ending of these "ice ages", although changes in greenhouse gas (CO2) levels also play an important role.

Link?

Sure.
Causes of Ice Ages

From your link:

The causes of ice ages are not fully understood for either the large-scale ice age periods or the smaller ebb and flow of glacial–interglacial periods within an ice age.

My guess is that they "know" what caused the ice ages about as well as their models work today.

Mark

Well now, Mark, you can guess all you want. But scientists have to present evidence gathered with a credible methodology. And when they do that, what people like you say is irrelevant. If you are too damned lazy to do the research with that instrument you use to post on this board, why should anyone listen to you?

Climatology is a "recent" science. These scientists that "know" what is happening to our climate is analogous to the cave men that did brain surgery with rock tools that were just as sure of success.

Our knowledge of climate is too limited to even begin to guess what is happening, much less predict the future.

As to my "being lazy", I look at the facts to make my decisions. Maybe when the scientists get models that constantly "get it right", I pay them some heed, but as of right now, I could predict better flipping a coin.

Should I also be listening to the scientist that have told me that trans fats are good, that we have reached peak oil, and that the world will be facing mass starvation at the turn of the century?

Or should I use my own reasoning power to understand their limitations in making such a claim?

You believe what you must. The overwhelming evidence so far shows me what to believe.

Mark

In 1981, Dr. Hansen wrote a paper that predicted the opening of the Northwest Passage. In the paper, he also predicted the droughts we are seeing the the Southwest of this nation, and those we are seeing in Asia. He predicted these things to happen shortly after the turn of the century, and he was correct on all counts.

In the meantime, the deniers were stating there was no warming, period. By the late '90's, they started the chorus of 'Well yes, there was a warming, but it was from natural causes'. But they can's seem to be able to name the causes.

The overwhelming evidence is that you are going to ignore reality and believe what you want in spite of all the evidence.

Hmm. Did Hansen know enough about climate to tell us what benefits might come with it? If so, why didn't he mention the greening of the deserts?

Deserts greening from rising CO2 CSIRO

Like I said, our knowledge of climate is in its infancy. Anyone who says they "know" climate should then tell me how we can get very simple questions(like trans fats) wrong.

Mark.

 

[80zephyr]

Sometimes you guys sound like you think that humans have no more impact on the natural world than a bunch of racoons.

Well, since it is a fact that termites contribute more to global warming, you aren't far off.

So, zipforbrains, what is your problem anyway.....congenital retardation?,,.,delusional bamboozled ignorance?....anti-science rightwingnut corporate stooge?....paid troll???

Your supposed "fact" is not an actual fact. It is an idiotic and fraudulent propaganda meme. Mankind is currently pumping about 36 billion metric tonnes of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere every year. Mankind has raised CO2 levels by about 43% over the pre-industrial levels, which had stayed fairly steady for the last ten thousand years and which are now higher than they have ever been in the last 15 million years. The increased CO2 levels are responsible for the large majority of the global warming the Earth is experiencing. Methane accounts for most of the rest and humans have more than doubled atmospheric methane levels over their natural pre-industrial levels. Termites are one of the largest natural sources of methane but they produce less than the other natural sources combined and they produce far less than humans do; while all of the methane, both natural sources and the increasing anthropogenic sources, is subordinate to the rising CO2 levels as a cause of the current warming trend. Humans ARE responsible for the current global warming and its consequent climate changes, as the world scientific community very clearly affirms.

Termites are producing the same amount of methane they always have, for the last ten thousand years. There is no sudden change in their methane production that could be conceivably linked to the current abrupt warming trend, you ignorant, illogical denier cult dumbass.

Methane
(excerpts)
Methane (CH4) is by far the most important non-CO2 greenhouse gas - a relatively potent greenhouse gas responsible for nearly as much global warming as all other non-CO2 greenhouse gases put together. Methane is created naturally near the Earth's surface by microorganisms by the process of methanogenesis and carried into the stratosphere by rising air in the tropics. It is important because of the potential harm it has for global warming, but it also has value as an energy source. There is much less methane in the atmosphere than CO2: about 1800 parts per billion (ppb), compared with an estimated 390 parts per million of CO2. However its potential for global warming has been estimated at 25 times greater than CO2 . While CO2 emissions are estimated to contribute 75% to global warming effects, methane is a distant second at 15%. And as with other greenhouse gases, methane levels have been rising; they are now more than twice what they were in the early 1800s when methane levels were closer to 715ppb. Half of current emissions is human-related which includes landfills, agriculture and coal mining.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) estimates that atmospheric concentrations are about two and a half times those seen in pre-industrial times. "A fifth of all greenhouse gas-induced global warming has been due to methane since pre-industrial times," said Australian climate scientist Paul Fraser. Pound for pound, methane warms the climate 22 times more than CO2 over a 100-year period. The oil and gas industry is the single largest emitter of human-caused methane in the United States and the second largest industrial source of domestic greenhouse gas emissions behind only electric power plants. The EPA has determined that oil and natural gas production wells, gathering lines, processing facilities, storage tanks and transmission and distribution pipelines emit over 15 million metric tons of methane annually – the equivalent of the annual greenhouse gas emission of 64 million cars. link

Methane is produced in environments with little or no oxygen by bacteria that feast on decomposing organic matter, such as grasses and wood. Almost half of the world’s methane comes from natural sources such as wetlands, rivers and streams, gas hydrates on the ocean floor, and permafrost. Termites, surprisingly, are the second largest source of global natural methane emissions; they produce the gas as part of their normal digestive process. Human-related activity is responsible for the other half of global emissions. Methane is released from the extraction and burning of fossil fuels for electricity and transportation; from rice paddies, landfills, and from cattle.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers. I never claimed that termites haven't been contributing to global warming for thousands of years.

My claim(correctly) is that they do indeed contribute as much as humans do. It appears that you believe that since they were "doing it first" and that it is "natural" cancels out the "right" of humans to do so as well.

It doesn't.

Human evolution is as natural as termites are. We evolved to use these fuels. Our use of them are as "natural" as termites contributions are.

Mark

Your post reveals your ignorance on several fronts.

First of all, asking the wrong questions doesn't automatically lead to the wrong answers as long as the people doing the asking are willing to look at the facts. Scientists understand that perfectly well since they can later on dismiss an inquiry as being a blind alley or a dead end.

Secondly, while the production of methane from termites IS a natural occurrence, the same is not true of humans who dig up carbon that's been buried for millions of years and burn it. That's an interruption of the natural occurring cycle.

So, what termites do is "natural" and what humans do is not?

If a bear uses a "tool" such as a stick, to extract ants from a hill, is what he does natural or not?

Mark

 

[RollingThunder]

.It is obvious that all of humanity is going to perish because I mowed my lawn with a 2-stroke gasoline fueled combustion engine last Saturday. I will remember this turning point in my life, and in the ecology of the planet, as I burn in hell for my sin. Ok, I confessed my sin. Have I redeemed myself and been forgiven by the Druid Priests of environmentalism?

Do you ever say anything that isn't completely retarded and utterly worthless? You would totally surprise everyone if you ever did manage that.

I dunno. Saying there has never been a northwest passage in all of human history was pretty retarded.

Blah blah blah

I would have quoted you. But you used the words strawman and denier. I am neither.

I didn't call you a "strawman, moron, I said you use 'straw-man arguments'. It's hilarious that you are too stupid and ignorant to understand what that means. It is even more hilarious that you want to deny that you're an AGW denier. You really are a loon!

There has and always will be a NW passage

Bullshit! Your clueless drivel about termites got debunked so now you're making more fallacious statements based on your denier cult myths. Until recently the Arctic Ocean was so completely filled with ice that there was no passages through it at all. Centuries of exploration revealed that there was no Northwest Passage. Only after the Arctic started melting enormously due to AGW that both the Northwest Passage and the Northeast Passage have opened up to shipping for the first time in human history. Here's the thing, retard. I can back up what I say with evidence while you're just blowing hot air out your pie-hole with no evidence to support your bogus claims. Repeating your bullshit over and over doesn't make it magically come true; it just amounts to more hot air.

Northwest Passage
Between the end of the 15th century and the 20th century, colonial powers from Europe dispatched explorers in an attempt to discover a commercial sea route north and west around North America. The Northwest Passage represented a new route to the established trading nations of Asia, as in 1493 to defuse trade disputes, Pope Alexander VI split the discovered world in two between Spain and Portugal; thus France, the Netherlands, and England were left without a sea route to Asia, either via Africa or South America,[17] unless their ships defied the ban and explored such waters regardless (they did, and the ban became unenforceable). England called the hypothetical northern route the "Northwest Passage". The desire to establish such a route motivated much of the European exploration of both coasts of North America. When it became apparent that there was no route through the heart of the continent, attention turned to the possibility of a passage through northern waters. This was driven in some part by scientific naiveté, namely an early belief that seawater was incapable of freezing (as late as the mid-18th century, Captain James Cook had reported, for example, that Antarctic icebergs had yielded fresh water, seemingly confirming the hypothesis), and that a route close to the North Pole must therefore exist.[17] The belief that a route lay to the far north persisted for several centuries and led to numerous expeditions into the Arctic. Many ended in disaster, including the attempt by Sir John Franklin in 1845. In 1906, Roald Amundsen first successfully completed a path from Greenland to Alaska in the sloop Gjøa.[18] Since that date, several fortified ships have made the journey.


The melting north
The Economist
Jun 16th 2012
Almost all Arctic glaciers have receded. The area of Arctic land covered by snow in early summer has shrunk by almost a fifth since 1966. But it is the Arctic Ocean that is most changed. In the 1970s, 80s and 90s the minimum extent of polar pack ice fell by around 8% per decade. Then, in 2007, the sea ice crashed, melting to a summer minimum of 4.3m sq km (1.7m square miles), close to half the average for the 1960s and 24% below the previous minimum, set in 2005. This left the north-west passage, a sea lane through Canada's 36,000-island Arctic Archipelago, ice-free for the first time in memory.

There will be another ice age as there has been many times before. And matter how many farts you hold in you cannot stop it.

More idiotic 'hot air' nonsense based on nothing but your ignorance.

Global Warming Good News: No More Ice Ages

 

[80zephyr]

.It is obvious that all of humanity is going to perish because I mowed my lawn with a 2-stroke gasoline fueled combustion engine last Saturday. I will remember this turning point in my life, and in the ecology of the planet, as I burn in hell for my sin. Ok, I confessed my sin. Have I redeemed myself and been forgiven by the Druid Priests of environmentalism?

Do you ever say anything that isn't completely retarded and utterly worthless? You would totally surprise everyone if you ever did manage that.

I dunno. Saying there has never been a northwest passage in all of human history was pretty retarded.

Blah blah blah

I would have quoted you. But you used the words strawman and denier. I am neither.

I didn't call you a "strawman, moron, I said you use 'straw-man arguments'. It's hilarious that you are too stupid and ignorant to understand what that means. It is even more hilarious that you want to deny that you're an AGW denier. You really are a loon!

There has and always will be a NW passage

Bullshit! Your clueless drivel about termites got debunked so now you're making more fallacious statements based on your denier cult myths. Until recently the Arctic Ocean was so completely filled with ice that there was no passages through it at all. Centuries of exploration revealed that there was no Northwest Passage. Only after the Arctic started melting enormously due to AGW that both the Northwest Passage and the Northeast Passage have opened up to shipping for the first time in human history. Here's the thing, retard. I can back up what I say with evidence while you're just blowing hot air out your pie-hole with no evidence to support your bogus claims. Repeating your bullshit over and over doesn't make it magically come true; it just amounts to more hot air.

Northwest Passage
Between the end of the 15th century and the 20th century, colonial powers from Europe dispatched explorers in an attempt to discover a commercial sea route north and west around North America. The Northwest Passage represented a new route to the established trading nations of Asia, as in 1493 to defuse trade disputes, Pope Alexander VI split the discovered world in two between Spain and Portugal; thus France, the Netherlands, and England were left without a sea route to Asia, either via Africa or South America,[17] unless their ships defied the ban and explored such waters regardless (they did, and the ban became unenforceable). England called the hypothetical northern route the "Northwest Passage". The desire to establish such a route motivated much of the European exploration of both coasts of North America. When it became apparent that there was no route through the heart of the continent, attention turned to the possibility of a passage through northern waters. This was driven in some part by scientific naiveté, namely an early belief that seawater was incapable of freezing (as late as the mid-18th century, Captain James Cook had reported, for example, that Antarctic icebergs had yielded fresh water, seemingly confirming the hypothesis), and that a route close to the North Pole must therefore exist.[17] The belief that a route lay to the far north persisted for several centuries and led to numerous expeditions into the Arctic. Many ended in disaster, including the attempt by Sir John Franklin in 1845. In 1906, Roald Amundsen first successfully completed a path from Greenland to Alaska in the sloop Gjøa.[18] Since that date, several fortified ships have made the journey.


The melting north
The Economist
Jun 16th 2012
Almost all Arctic glaciers have receded. The area of Arctic land covered by snow in early summer has shrunk by almost a fifth since 1966. But it is the Arctic Ocean that is most changed. In the 1970s, 80s and 90s the minimum extent of polar pack ice fell by around 8% per decade. Then, in 2007, the sea ice crashed, melting to a summer minimum of 4.3m sq km (1.7m square miles), close to half the average for the 1960s and 24% below the previous minimum, set in 2005. This left the north-west passage, a sea lane through Canada's 36,000-island Arctic Archipelago, ice-free for the first time in memory.

There will be another ice age as there has been many times before. And matter how many farts you hold in you cannot stop it.

More idiotic 'hot air' nonsense based on nothing but your ignorance.

Global Warming Good News: No More Ice Ages

So now "science" believes there will be no more ice ages because of global warming?

In the old days, science understood that they lacked the knowledge to make such preposterous statements. Today, those types of statements are common place.

Science is dead.

Mark

 

[RollingThunder]

Sometimes you guys sound like you think that humans have no more impact on the natural world than a bunch of racoons.

Well, since it is a fact that termites contribute more to global warming, you aren't far off.

So, zipforbrains, what is your problem anyway.....congenital retardation?,,.,delusional bamboozled ignorance?....anti-science rightwingnut corporate stooge?....paid troll???

Your supposed "fact" is not an actual fact. It is an idiotic and fraudulent propaganda meme. Mankind is currently pumping about 36 billion metric tonnes of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere every year. Mankind has raised CO2 levels by about 43% over the pre-industrial levels, which had stayed fairly steady for the last ten thousand years and which are now higher than they have ever been in the last 15 million years. The increased CO2 levels are responsible for the large majority of the global warming the Earth is experiencing. Methane accounts for most of the rest and humans have more than doubled atmospheric methane levels over their natural pre-industrial levels. Termites are one of the largest natural sources of methane but they produce less than the other natural sources combined and they produce far less than humans do; while all of the methane, both natural sources and the increasing anthropogenic sources, is subordinate to the rising CO2 levels as a cause of the current warming trend. Humans ARE responsible for the current global warming and its consequent climate changes, as the world scientific community very clearly affirms.

Termites are producing the same amount of methane they always have, for the last ten thousand years. There is no sudden change in their methane production that could be conceivably linked to the current abrupt warming trend, you ignorant, illogical denier cult dumbass.

Methane
(excerpts)
Methane (CH4) is by far the most important non-CO2 greenhouse gas - a relatively potent greenhouse gas responsible for nearly as much global warming as all other non-CO2 greenhouse gases put together. Methane is created naturally near the Earth's surface by microorganisms by the process of methanogenesis and carried into the stratosphere by rising air in the tropics. It is important because of the potential harm it has for global warming, but it also has value as an energy source. There is much less methane in the atmosphere than CO2: about 1800 parts per billion (ppb), compared with an estimated 390 parts per million of CO2. However its potential for global warming has been estimated at 25 times greater than CO2 . While CO2 emissions are estimated to contribute 75% to global warming effects, methane is a distant second at 15%. And as with other greenhouse gases, methane levels have been rising; they are now more than twice what they were in the early 1800s when methane levels were closer to 715ppb. Half of current emissions is human-related which includes landfills, agriculture and coal mining.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) estimates that atmospheric concentrations are about two and a half times those seen in pre-industrial times. "A fifth of all greenhouse gas-induced global warming has been due to methane since pre-industrial times," said Australian climate scientist Paul Fraser. Pound for pound, methane warms the climate 22 times more than CO2 over a 100-year period. The oil and gas industry is the single largest emitter of human-caused methane in the United States and the second largest industrial source of domestic greenhouse gas emissions behind only electric power plants. The EPA has determined that oil and natural gas production wells, gathering lines, processing facilities, storage tanks and transmission and distribution pipelines emit over 15 million metric tons of methane annually – the equivalent of the annual greenhouse gas emission of 64 million cars. link

Methane is produced in environments with little or no oxygen by bacteria that feast on decomposing organic matter, such as grasses and wood. Almost half of the world’s methane comes from natural sources such as wetlands, rivers and streams, gas hydrates on the ocean floor, and permafrost. Termites, surprisingly, are the second largest source of global natural methane emissions; they produce the gas as part of their normal digestive process. Human-related activity is responsible for the other half of global emissions. Methane is released from the extraction and burning of fossil fuels for electricity and transportation; from rice paddies, landfills, and from cattle.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers.

You seem determined to achieve that result (wrong answers) using only your native ignorance, complete lack of intelligence and your gullibility. Congratulations. You succeeded in demonstrating what a complete retard you are.

My claim(correctly) is that they do indeed contribute as much as humans do.

False twice. What you said was: "it is a fact that termites contribute more to global warming" than humans do. That's completely fase, as the article I quoted clearly showed. Now you're lying again and saying you claimed that termites contribute to global warming only as much as humans do. That is also quite false. You are a lying troll, trying to deny reality. Reality laughs at you.

Termites produce methane, moron, but....

While CO2 emissions are estimated to contribute 75% to global warming effects, methane is a distant second at 15%.

Methane levels have been rising; they are now more than twice what they were in the early 1800s when methane levels were closer to 715ppb. Half of current emissions are human-related.

Almost half of the world’s methane comes from natural sources such as wetlands, rivers and streams, gas hydrates on the ocean floor, cattle flatulence, and permafrost. Termites, surprisingly, are the second largest source of global natural methane emissions.

Human-related activity is responsible for the other half of global methane emissions.

ALL of the global methane emissions only account for about 15% of the current observed global warming, with human-caused CO2 emissions producing 75% of the warming, and since humans are also responsible for half of the methane emissions, and termites only produce a fraction of the other half, with their contribution remaining unchanged for thousands of years, humans are entirely responsible for the current abrupt warming trend and termites bear no responsibility. They are part of the natural processes of methane and CO2 emissions and sequestration that had remained in a homeostatic balance for eons before human came along and started upsetting the natural balances by burning immense quantities of fossil carbon that had been sequestered over millions of years. Since 1750, humans have added about 2000 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide to the Earth's atmosphere, raising CO2 levels by 43% so far, in addition to over doubling natural atmospheric methane levels.

It appears that you believe that since they were "doing it first" and that it is "natural" cancels out the "right" of humans to do so as well. It doesn't. Human evolution is as natural as termites are. We evolved to use these fuels. Our use of them are as "natural" as termites contributions are.

LOLOL. Laughably insane nonsense. You are a loon, and you are far too retarded to have any idea what I "believe".

I don't have time for anyone who argues as "intelligently" as you do. Your words tell me all I need to know about your ability to think.

ROTFLMAO......LOLOLOLOL........you mean someone who can debunk your ignorant twaddle with the facts while you blow more unsubstantiated bullshit hot air. I doubt "my words" can tell a brainwashed imbecile like you anything, but your words are very effective at letting the rest of us know how extremely retarded and ignorant you are.

 

[RollingThunder]

Do you ever say anything that isn't completely retarded and utterly worthless? You would totally surprise everyone if you ever did manage that.

I dunno. Saying there has never been a northwest passage in all of human history was pretty retarded.

Blah blah blah

I would have quoted you. But you used the words strawman and denier. I am neither.

I didn't call you a "strawman, moron, I said you use 'straw-man arguments'. It's hilarious that you are too stupid and ignorant to understand what that means. It is even more hilarious that you want to deny that you're an AGW denier. You really are a loon!

There has and always will be a NW passage

Bullshit! Your clueless drivel about termites got debunked so now you're making more fallacious statements based on your denier cult myths. Until recently the Arctic Ocean was so completely filled with ice that there was no passages through it at all. Centuries of exploration revealed that there was no Northwest Passage. Only after the Arctic started melting enormously due to AGW that both the Northwest Passage and the Northeast Passage have opened up to shipping for the first time in human history. Here's the thing, retard. I can back up what I say with evidence while you're just blowing hot air out your pie-hole with no evidence to support your bogus claims. Repeating your bullshit over and over doesn't make it magically come true; it just amounts to more hot air.

Northwest Passage
Between the end of the 15th century and the 20th century, colonial powers from Europe dispatched explorers in an attempt to discover a commercial sea route north and west around North America. The Northwest Passage represented a new route to the established trading nations of Asia, as in 1493 to defuse trade disputes, Pope Alexander VI split the discovered world in two between Spain and Portugal; thus France, the Netherlands, and England were left without a sea route to Asia, either via Africa or South America,[17] unless their ships defied the ban and explored such waters regardless (they did, and the ban became unenforceable). England called the hypothetical northern route the "Northwest Passage". The desire to establish such a route motivated much of the European exploration of both coasts of North America. When it became apparent that there was no route through the heart of the continent, attention turned to the possibility of a passage through northern waters. This was driven in some part by scientific naiveté, namely an early belief that seawater was incapable of freezing (as late as the mid-18th century, Captain James Cook had reported, for example, that Antarctic icebergs had yielded fresh water, seemingly confirming the hypothesis), and that a route close to the North Pole must therefore exist.[17] The belief that a route lay to the far north persisted for several centuries and led to numerous expeditions into the Arctic. Many ended in disaster, including the attempt by Sir John Franklin in 1845. In 1906, Roald Amundsen first successfully completed a path from Greenland to Alaska in the sloop Gjøa.[18] Since that date, several fortified ships have made the journey.


The melting north
The Economist
Jun 16th 2012
Almost all Arctic glaciers have receded. The area of Arctic land covered by snow in early summer has shrunk by almost a fifth since 1966. But it is the Arctic Ocean that is most changed. In the 1970s, 80s and 90s the minimum extent of polar pack ice fell by around 8% per decade. Then, in 2007, the sea ice crashed, melting to a summer minimum of 4.3m sq km (1.7m square miles), close to half the average for the 1960s and 24% below the previous minimum, set in 2005. This left the north-west passage, a sea lane through Canada's 36,000-island Arctic Archipelago, ice-free for the first time in memory.

There will be another ice age as there has been many times before. And matter how many farts you hold in you cannot stop it.

More idiotic 'hot air' nonsense based on nothing but your ignorance.

Global Warming Good News: No More Ice Ages

So now "science" believes there will be no more ice ages because of global warming?

In the old days, science understood that they lacked the knowledge to make such preposterous statements. Today, those types of statements are common place.

Science is dead.

Scientists are about ten times more intelligent than you are, zip4brains. Their statements only seem "preposterous" to you because you're such an ignorant retard.

Your brain is dead.

 

[80zephyr]

Do you ever say anything that isn't completely retarded and utterly worthless? You would totally surprise everyone if you ever did manage that.

I dunno. Saying there has never been a northwest passage in all of human history was pretty retarded.

Blah blah blah

I would have quoted you. But you used the words strawman and denier. I am neither.

I didn't call you a "strawman, moron, I said you use 'straw-man arguments'. It's hilarious that you are too stupid and ignorant to understand what that means. It is even more hilarious that you want to deny that you're an AGW denier. You really are a loon!

There has and always will be a NW passage

Bullshit! Your clueless drivel about termites got debunked so now you're making more fallacious statements based on your denier cult myths. Until recently the Arctic Ocean was so completely filled with ice that there was no passages through it at all. Centuries of exploration revealed that there was no Northwest Passage. Only after the Arctic started melting enormously due to AGW that both the Northwest Passage and the Northeast Passage have opened up to shipping for the first time in human history. Here's the thing, retard. I can back up what I say with evidence while you're just blowing hot air out your pie-hole with no evidence to support your bogus claims. Repeating your bullshit over and over doesn't make it magically come true; it just amounts to more hot air.

Northwest Passage
Between the end of the 15th century and the 20th century, colonial powers from Europe dispatched explorers in an attempt to discover a commercial sea route north and west around North America. The Northwest Passage represented a new route to the established trading nations of Asia, as in 1493 to defuse trade disputes, Pope Alexander VI split the discovered world in two between Spain and Portugal; thus France, the Netherlands, and England were left without a sea route to Asia, either via Africa or South America,[17] unless their ships defied the ban and explored such waters regardless (they did, and the ban became unenforceable). England called the hypothetical northern route the "Northwest Passage". The desire to establish such a route motivated much of the European exploration of both coasts of North America. When it became apparent that there was no route through the heart of the continent, attention turned to the possibility of a passage through northern waters. This was driven in some part by scientific naiveté, namely an early belief that seawater was incapable of freezing (as late as the mid-18th century, Captain James Cook had reported, for example, that Antarctic icebergs had yielded fresh water, seemingly confirming the hypothesis), and that a route close to the North Pole must therefore exist.[17] The belief that a route lay to the far north persisted for several centuries and led to numerous expeditions into the Arctic. Many ended in disaster, including the attempt by Sir John Franklin in 1845. In 1906, Roald Amundsen first successfully completed a path from Greenland to Alaska in the sloop Gjøa.[18] Since that date, several fortified ships have made the journey.


The melting north
The Economist
Jun 16th 2012
Almost all Arctic glaciers have receded. The area of Arctic land covered by snow in early summer has shrunk by almost a fifth since 1966. But it is the Arctic Ocean that is most changed. In the 1970s, 80s and 90s the minimum extent of polar pack ice fell by around 8% per decade. Then, in 2007, the sea ice crashed, melting to a summer minimum of 4.3m sq km (1.7m square miles), close to half the average for the 1960s and 24% below the previous minimum, set in 2005. This left the north-west passage, a sea lane through Canada's 36,000-island Arctic Archipelago, ice-free for the first time in memory.

There will be another ice age as there has been many times before. And matter how many farts you hold in you cannot stop it.

More idiotic 'hot air' nonsense based on nothing but your ignorance.

Global Warming Good News: No More Ice Ages

So now "science" believes there will be no more ice ages because of global warming?

In the old days, science understood that they lacked the knowledge to make such preposterous statements. Today, those types of statements are common place.

Science is dead.

Scientists are about ten times more intelligent than you are, zip4brains. Their statements only seem "preposterous" to you because you're such an ignorant retard.

Your brain is dead.

Like I said, you ain't worth the energy. Come back when you grow up.

Mark

 

[Billy_Bob]

Scientists are about ten times more intelligent than you are, zip4brains. Their statements only seem "preposterous" to you because you're such an ignorant retard.

Your brain is dead.

Speaking of brain dead morons... This is like the pot calling the kettle black...