The only proper purpose of a government

[bripat9643]

Couldn't find any, huh?
I didn't think so.

Places where it has failed:
Costa Rico
France
Germany
and in the U.S.

Libertarian experiments have invariably crumbled under real world conditions.

Having collectivist authoritarian hooligans hijacking the republic does not mean it failed.

yeah, yeah

so show me where it has NOT failed.

The First 150 years of the United States.

 

[BlindBoo]

Unfortunately it didn't work. Unsafe drugs are still approved by the FDA all the time. Take Thalidomide and Fen Phen, for instance. In the process, many life saving drugs are held off the market for years while thousands of people die.

Thalidomide was not approved by the FDA.

It was approved by many foreign equivalents of the FDA. Free samples were also distributed to physicians in the U.S.

Fen Phen is two drugs.

Any new drug combination requires FDA approval before it can be sold in the U.S.

Thalidomide was being studied in clinical trials here, never approved. (However the pictures of those poor deformed babies made great propaganda against LSD a few year later). FDA approval is not required for Doctors to prescribe off-label use for any medicine.

 

[bripat9643]

Thalidomide was not approved by the FDA.

It was approved by many foreign equivalents of the FDA. Free samples were also distributed to physicians in the U.S.

Fen Phen is two drugs.

Any new drug combination requires FDA approval before it can be sold in the U.S.

Thalidomide was being studied in clinical trials here, never approved. (However the pictures of those poor deformed babies made great propaganda against LSD a few year later). FDA approval is not required for Doctors to prescribe off-label use for any medicine.

Fen Phen was a combination of drugs marketed by drug companies, so it required FDA approval. Thalidomide was approved overseas by European equivalents of the FDA.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Having collectivist authoritarian hooligans hijacking the republic does not mean it failed.

yeah, yeah

so show me where it has NOT failed.

The First 150 years of the United States.

Yeah like the financial panics of 1819, 1837, 1857, 1873, and 1893; slavery; cholera; child labor; civil war; filth, disease and crime; Trail of Tears; poverty; .. those sure were "the good old days."


In fact, it worked so well and was so universally accepted and valued, no one ever tinkered with it or even wanted to change a thing ....

oh ... wait ....

I find many Libertarian-leaning people are often suffering from a rose-tinted, romantizied view of "the good old days."

 

[JustTheFacts]

Having collectivist authoritarian hooligans hijacking the republic does not mean it failed.

yeah, yeah

so show me where it has NOT failed.

The First 150 years of the United States.

You mean when slavery was the norm, and in fact actually slaves lived better than the working poor, those who even had jobs that is?


You mean when Americans were as likely to die from treatment as they were from the illness that sent them to the doctor in the first place.

You mean when the average life span of an American male was 58 years old?

You mean when children as young as 12 were working 60 hour work weeks?

You mean when companies owned entire towns and employees had to purchase everything , including paying their rent , from the very company they worked for, and in fact they were paid in script rather than actual cash and consequently employees went further in debt each year rather than gained anything, but hey that was better than the alternative which was not to have any job at all?

You mean back when 2 out of 5 children died during birth, as did 1 out of 5 mothers?

Yup, those were the good old days.

LOL you fool

 

[JustTheFacts]

yeah, yeah

so show me where it has NOT failed.

The First 150 years of the United States.

Yeah like the financial panics of 1819, 1837, 1857, 1873, and 1893; slavery; cholera; child labor; civil war; filth, disease and crime; Trail of Tears; poverty; .. those sure were "the good old days."


In fact, it worked so well and was so universally accepted and valued, no one ever tinkered with it or even wanted to change a thing ....

oh ... wait ....

I find many Libertarian-leaning people are often suffering from a rose-tinted, romantizied view of "the good old days."

so called libertarians are in fact anarchists, well almost they don't want any government unless it's telling YOU what to do. LOL

 

[Oddball]

yeah, yeah

so show me where it has NOT failed.

The First 150 years of the United States.

You mean when slavery was the norm, and in fact actually slaves lived better than the working poor, those who even had jobs that is?


You mean when Americans were as likely to die from treatment as they were from the illness that sent them to the doctor in the first place.

You mean when the average life span of an American male was 58 years old?

You mean when children as young as 12 were working 60 hour work weeks?

You mean when companies owned entire towns and employees had to purchase everything , including paying their rent , from the very company they worked for, and in fact they were paid in script rather than actual cash and consequently employees went further in debt each year rather than gained anything, but hey that was better than the alternative which was not to have any job at all?

You mean back when 2 out of 5 children died during birth, as did 1 out of 5 mothers?

Yup, those were the good old days.

LOL you fool

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

 

[BlindBoo]

It was approved by many foreign equivalents of the FDA. Free samples were also distributed to physicians in the U.S.



Any new drug combination requires FDA approval before it can be sold in the U.S.

Thalidomide was being studied in clinical trials here, never approved. (However the pictures of those poor deformed babies made great propaganda against LSD a few year later). FDA approval is not required for Doctors to prescribe off-label use for any medicine.

Fen Phen was a combination of drugs marketed by drug companies, so it required FDA approval. Thalidomide was approved overseas by European equivalents of the FDA.

Again, using the Fen Phen combination (off label) was not approved by the FDA.

Thalidomide still was not approved by the FDA.

 

[Oddball]

Thalidomide was being studied in clinical trials here, never approved. (However the pictures of those poor deformed babies made great propaganda against LSD a few year later). FDA approval is not required for Doctors to prescribe off-label use for any medicine.

Fen Phen was a combination of drugs marketed by drug companies, so it required FDA approval. Thalidomide was approved overseas by European equivalents of the FDA.

Again, using the Fen Phen combination (off label) was not approved by the FDA.

Thalidomide still was not approved by the FDA.

But the prohibitions against indications for use and strict protocols for EMS personnel for aspirin were strictly enforced by the FDA...They quite literally caused countless preventable deaths of AMI patients.

 

[BlindBoo]

The First 150 years of the United States.

You mean when slavery was the norm, and in fact actually slaves lived better than the working poor, those who even had jobs that is?


You mean when Americans were as likely to die from treatment as they were from the illness that sent them to the doctor in the first place.

You mean when the average life span of an American male was 58 years old?

You mean when children as young as 12 were working 60 hour work weeks?

You mean when companies owned entire towns and employees had to purchase everything , including paying their rent , from the very company they worked for, and in fact they were paid in script rather than actual cash and consequently employees went further in debt each year rather than gained anything, but hey that was better than the alternative which was not to have any job at all?

You mean back when 2 out of 5 children died during birth, as did 1 out of 5 mothers?

Yup, those were the good old days.

LOL you fool

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

You mean after 1945?

 

[Oddball]

You mean when slavery was the norm, and in fact actually slaves lived better than the working poor, those who even had jobs that is?


You mean when Americans were as likely to die from treatment as they were from the illness that sent them to the doctor in the first place.

You mean when the average life span of an American male was 58 years old?

You mean when children as young as 12 were working 60 hour work weeks?

You mean when companies owned entire towns and employees had to purchase everything , including paying their rent , from the very company they worked for, and in fact they were paid in script rather than actual cash and consequently employees went further in debt each year rather than gained anything, but hey that was better than the alternative which was not to have any job at all?

You mean back when 2 out of 5 children died during birth, as did 1 out of 5 mothers?

Yup, those were the good old days.

LOL you fool

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

You mean after 1945?

I mean particularly post Civil War and through the industrial revolution.

 

[nodoginnafight]

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

You mean after 1945?

I mean particularly post Civil War and through the industrial revolution.

oh the disease, the filth, the poverty, child labor, World War I, the financial panics of 1873 and 1890, the exploitation of workers, ... you mean THOSE good ol' days. Oh, well, why didn't you say so ....

 

[JustTheFacts]

The First 150 years of the United States.

You mean when slavery was the norm, and in fact actually slaves lived better than the working poor, those who even had jobs that is?


You mean when Americans were as likely to die from treatment as they were from the illness that sent them to the doctor in the first place.

You mean when the average life span of an American male was 58 years old?

You mean when children as young as 12 were working 60 hour work weeks?

You mean when companies owned entire towns and employees had to purchase everything , including paying their rent , from the very company they worked for, and in fact they were paid in script rather than actual cash and consequently employees went further in debt each year rather than gained anything, but hey that was better than the alternative which was not to have any job at all?

You mean back when 2 out of 5 children died during birth, as did 1 out of 5 mothers?

Yup, those were the good old days.

LOL you fool

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

LOL there is exactly one reason we became a super power, economically or otherwise.

WWII. Go ahead and do the research, prior to WWII we were just another small country.

Guess what happened when we entered WWII? The government started telling private industry what they would produce, when they would produce it, how much of it they would produce, and how much of it they would sell and at what price.

and that my friend is how we became an economic super power.

My God you champion the time when the government was most in control as an example of what you want to return to? You fucking socialist.

 

[Sallow]

You mean when slavery was the norm, and in fact actually slaves lived better than the working poor, those who even had jobs that is?


You mean when Americans were as likely to die from treatment as they were from the illness that sent them to the doctor in the first place.

You mean when the average life span of an American male was 58 years old?

You mean when children as young as 12 were working 60 hour work weeks?

You mean when companies owned entire towns and employees had to purchase everything , including paying their rent , from the very company they worked for, and in fact they were paid in script rather than actual cash and consequently employees went further in debt each year rather than gained anything, but hey that was better than the alternative which was not to have any job at all?

You mean back when 2 out of 5 children died during birth, as did 1 out of 5 mothers?

Yup, those were the good old days.

LOL you fool

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

LOL there is exactly one reason we became a super power, economically or otherwise.

WWII. Go ahead and do the research, prior to WWII we were just another small country.

Guess what happened when we entered WWII? The government started telling private industry what they would produce, when they would produce it, how much of it they would produce, and how much of it they would sell and at what price.

and that my friend is how we became an economic super power.

My God you champion the time when the government was most in control as an example of what you want to return to? You fucking socialist.

Incidently..that's when the real middle class began to emerge in this country.

 

[bripat9643]

You mean after 1945?

I mean particularly post Civil War and through the industrial revolution.

oh the disease, the filth, the poverty, child labor, World War I, the financial panics of 1873 and 1890, the exploitation of workers, ... you mean THOSE good ol' days. Oh, well, why didn't you say so ....

None of those things were caused by economic freedom. Most social problems that exist prior to the industrial revolution were cured by capitalism. The Civil War and WW I are obviously the responsibility of government, not private industry.

I can't imagine anything more stupid than assigning blame for diseases to capitalism.

 

[JustTheFacts]

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

LOL there is exactly one reason we became a super power, economically or otherwise.

WWII. Go ahead and do the research, prior to WWII we were just another small country.

Guess what happened when we entered WWII? The government started telling private industry what they would produce, when they would produce it, how much of it they would produce, and how much of it they would sell and at what price.

and that my friend is how we became an economic super power.

My God you champion the time when the government was most in control as an example of what you want to return to? You fucking socialist.

Incidently..that's when the real middle class began to emerge in this country.

shhh is right, he's in a box now, interesting to see how he attempts to free himself.

I predict it will be ugly, yet amusing.

 

[bripat9643]

Thalidomide was being studied in clinical trials here, never approved. (However the pictures of those poor deformed babies made great propaganda against LSD a few year later). FDA approval is not required for Doctors to prescribe off-label use for any medicine.

Fen Phen was a combination of drugs marketed by drug companies, so it required FDA approval. Thalidomide was approved overseas by European equivalents of the FDA.

Again, using the Fen Phen combination (off label) was not approved by the FDA.

Wrong. The FDA did approve the drug:

Fenfluramine/phentermine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fenfluramine as a single drug was first introduced in the 1970s, but was not popular because it only temporarily reduced weight.[1] A 1984 study found a weight loss of 7.5 kg on average in 24 weeks, as compared to 4.4 kg under placebo.[4] It sold modestly until the 1990s, when it was combined with phentermine and heavily marketed.[1] A similar drug, aminorex, had caused severe lung damage and "provided reason to worry that similar drugs ... could increase the risk of a rare but often fatal lung disease, pulmonary hypertension."[1] In 1994, Wyeth official Fred Wilson expressed concerns about fenfluramine's labeling containing only four cases of pulmonary hypertension when a total of 41 had been observed, but no action was taken until 1996.[1] In 1995, Wyeth introduced dexfenfluramine (the dextro isomer, marketed as Redux), which it hoped would cause fewer adverse effects. However, the medical officer of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Leo Lutwak, insisted upon a black box warning of pulmonary hypertension risks. After Lutwak refused to approve the drug, the FDA management had someone else sign it and approved the drug with no black box warning for marketing in 1996.[1] European regulators required a major warning of pulmonary hypertension risks.[1]

Thalidomide still was not approved by the FDA.

No one is arguing it did.

 

[bripat9643]

so called libertarians are in fact anarchists, well almost they don't want any government unless it's telling YOU what to do. LOL

Another moron has spoken.

 

[Oddball]

You mean when slavery was the norm, and in fact actually slaves lived better than the working poor, those who even had jobs that is?


You mean when Americans were as likely to die from treatment as they were from the illness that sent them to the doctor in the first place.

You mean when the average life span of an American male was 58 years old?

You mean when children as young as 12 were working 60 hour work weeks?

You mean when companies owned entire towns and employees had to purchase everything , including paying their rent , from the very company they worked for, and in fact they were paid in script rather than actual cash and consequently employees went further in debt each year rather than gained anything, but hey that was better than the alternative which was not to have any job at all?

You mean back when 2 out of 5 children died during birth, as did 1 out of 5 mothers?

Yup, those were the good old days.

LOL you fool

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

LOL there is exactly one reason we became a super power, economically or otherwise.

WWII. Go ahead and do the research, prior to WWII we were just another small country.

Guess what happened when we entered WWII? The government started telling private industry what they would produce, when they would produce it, how much of it they would produce, and how much of it they would sell and at what price.

and that my friend is how we became an economic super power.

My God you champion the time when the government was most in control as an example of what you want to return to? You fucking socialist.

Um, no...Both Hitler and Hirohito feared dragging America into WWII because of its industrial might, brought about by its inventiveness and greatest economic freedom in the world during the Industrial Revolution, a time which America economically kicked just about every ass ind invented just about anything worth having.

But thanks for the refresher course in the progressive/socialist warmonger re-write of American economic history...I never tire of hearing those fairy tales.

 

[JustTheFacts]

I mean particularly post Civil War and through the industrial revolution.

oh the disease, the filth, the poverty, child labor, World War I, the financial panics of 1873 and 1890, the exploitation of workers, ... you mean THOSE good ol' days. Oh, well, why didn't you say so ....

None of those things were caused by economic freedom. Most social problems that exist prior to the industrial revolution were cured by capitalism. The Civil War and WW I are obviously the responsibility of government, not private industry.

I can't imagine anything more stupid than assigning blame for diseases to capitalism.

You love you some being wrong don't you?

In the case of the Civil War, the motivating factor was private industry, AKA the southern capitalist cotton growers didn't want to give up their free labor.

Argue with that LOL