The only proper purpose of a government

[bripat9643]

The DHS, TSA, BATF, DEA, IRS, FDA, and the rest of the alphabet soup mob make America a "civil, well organized society"?!?!??

Oh, Priscilla!

They do.

Libertarians laugh at idiots like you.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Examples?

EXACTLY!!! Show me examples of where these political ideas have worked.

show me where they have been tried and not worked. You made the claim. Now support it.

Couldn't find any, huh?
I didn't think so.

Places where it has failed:
Costa Rico
France
Germany
and in the U.S.

Libertarian experiments have invariably crumbled under real world conditions.

 

[bripat9643]

EXACTLY!!! Show me examples of where these political ideas have worked.

show me where they have been tried and not worked. You made the claim. Now support it.

Couldn't find any, huh?
I didn't think so.

Places where it has failed:
Costa Rico
France
Germany
and in the U.S.

Libertarian experiments have invariably crumbled under real world conditions.

Really. Can you list the libertarian experiments that were tried and failed in those locations?

 

[Oddball]

EXACTLY!!! Show me examples of where these political ideas have worked.

show me where they have been tried and not worked. You made the claim. Now support it.

Couldn't find any, huh?
I didn't think so.

Places where it has failed:
Costa Rico
France
Germany
and in the U.S.

Libertarian experiments have invariably crumbled under real world conditions.

Having collectivist authoritarian hooligans hijacking the republic does not mean it failed.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The department of agriculture makes a "civil, well organized society" possible?

Yep

So we didn't have a "civil, well organized society" before the Department of Agriculture was created?

well it depends on how "civilized" you consider a nation at war with itself

 

[nodoginnafight]

show me where they have been tried and not worked. You made the claim. Now support it.

Couldn't find any, huh?
I didn't think so.

Places where it has failed:
Costa Rico
France
Germany
and in the U.S.

Libertarian experiments have invariably crumbled under real world conditions.

Having collectivist authoritarian hooligans hijacking the republic does not mean it failed.

yeah, yeah

so show me where it has NOT failed.

 

[BlindBoo]

The FDA already existed at the time, so it seems your "solution" didn't prevent the tragedy. There are still cases of doctors using unapproved treatments that kill their patients.

The incident was the catalyst for the 1938 act.

1933-38
The petty regulatory dictatorship rolls up its sleeves and gets to
work. FDA recommends a complete revision of the "obsolete" 1906
Food and Drugs Act. A five-year legislative battle ensues. In 1937,
an elixir of sulfanilamide contining a poisonous solvent kills 107
persons, mostly children, dramatizing the need to establish drug
safety before marketing and to enact the pending food and drug law.

1938
THE FEDERAL FOOD, DRUG, AND COSMETIC (FDC) ACT replaces the 1906
act. It contains new provisions extending control to cosmetics and
therapeutic devices; requiring new drugs to be shown safe before
marketing--starting a new system of drug regulation;

A Brief History of the FDA

Unfortunately it didn't work. Unsafe drugs are still approved by the FDA all the time. Take Thalidomide and Fen Phen, for instance. In the process, many life saving drugs are held off the market for years while thousands of people die.

Thalidomide was not approved by the FDA.

The tragedy surrounding thalidomide and Kelsey’s wise refusal to approve the drug helped motivate profound changes in the FDA. By passing the Kefauver-Harris Drug Amendments Act in 1962, legislators tightened restrictions surrounding the surveillance and approval process for drugs to be sold in the U.S., requiring that manufacturers prove they are both safe and effective before they are marketed.

The Thalidomide Tragedy: Lessons for Drug Safety and Regulation | Science in Society

Fen Phen is two drugs.

"....under current FDA statutes, drug manufacturers cannot distribute off-label information because its considered illegal promotion. Physicians, through, are free to prescribe approved drugs for off-label purposes without the protection of long-term studies and FDA approval for the new use."

Phen-Fen - Dying to be thin

 

[LogikAndReazon]

ah . the general welfare . progressive dependents understand that to mean that theyre entitled to govt welfare from cradle to grave . parasites

 

[JustTheFacts]

Some of you idiots are actually championing getting rid of the FDA? LOL

I advocate doing away the Department of Education. As it is obvious that education is wasted on the majority of Americans.

I don't mean turn it over to the state level, or local. I mean totally do away with public schools and leave education up to the families.

It's obvious by listening to the average American opine about just about anything that they aren't learning anything anyway.

 

[Oddball]

Couldn't find any, huh?
I didn't think so.

Places where it has failed:
Costa Rico
France
Germany
and in the U.S.

Libertarian experiments have invariably crumbled under real world conditions.

Having collectivist authoritarian hooligans hijacking the republic does not mean it failed.

yeah, yeah

so show me where it has NOT failed.

No, the onus of criteria is on you, pal.

Progressive/socialist central planner authoritarians hijacked the republic around the turn of the 20th century...This is a true historical fact....The only failure was that they were not prevented from doing so.

 

[nodoginnafight]

show me where they have been tried and not worked. You made the claim. Now support it.

Couldn't find any, huh?
I didn't think so.

Places where it has failed:
Costa Rico
France
Germany
and in the U.S.

Libertarian experiments have invariably crumbled under real world conditions.

Really. Can you list the libertarian experiments that were tried and failed in those locations?

Yes.

The Movimiento Libertario is one of the most successful libertarian political parties in the world.Costa Rica's Movimiento Libertario (Libertarian Movement) is a prominent, non-U.S. libertarian party which holds roughly 10% of the seats in Costa Rica's national assembly (legislature). The Movimiento Libertario is considered the first libertarian organization to achieve substantial electoral success at the national level, though not without controversy. For example, Rigoberto Stewart, co-founder of the party and founder of the Limón REAL Project[ for autonomy in a province in Costa Rica, and director of INLAP, a libertarian think tank, lost his influence within Movimiento Libertario and support for the Limón REAL Project. As perhaps explained by Public Choice Theory, while accepting money from the Friedrich Naumann Foundation, a German liberal foundation, the party compromised on their libertarian principles in return for more power, turning to anti-libertarian positions.

There are other Libertarian parties that have had various amounts of success throughout the world. Libertarianism is emerging in France with the inception of Liberté Chérie (Cherished Liberty), a thinktank and activist association that has 2,000 members. Liberté Chérie gained significant publicity when it managed to draw 80,000 Parisians into the streets to demonstrate against government employees who were striking.

In Germany a Libertäre Plattform in der FDP (Liberty Caucus within the Free Democratic Party) was founded in 2005.

In 2001, the Free State Project was founded by Jason Sorens, a political scientist and libertarian activist who argued that 20,000 libertarians should migrate to a single U.S. state in order to concentrate their activism. In August 2003, the membership of the Free State Project chose New Hampshire because of its friendliness to libertarian causes (note the state motto: Live Free or Die), limited government, citizen legislature (paid only $100 per year) and history of political activism. Despite the lower than expected rate of growth, the Free State Project has seen moderate success. They saw their first member elected to the New Hampshire legislature in 2006 and successfully completed the "First 1000" pledge in 2005, which signed up 1,033 people to move to New Hampshire by 2008. Some of the original Free Staters (about 1,000) were discontented with the choice of New Hampshire. Some have started rival projects, including the Free West Alliance, Free State Wyoming and North to the Future, a project for a Free Alaskan Nation, to concentrate activism in a different state or region

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Some of you idiots are actually championing getting rid of the FDA? LOL

I advocate doing away the Department of Education. As it is obvious that education is wasted on the majority of Americans.

I don't mean turn it over to the state level, or local. I mean totally do away with public schools and leave education up to the families.

It's obvious by listening to the average American opine about just about anything that they aren't learning anything anyway.

because clearly by abolishing the fda and doe there would no longer be safe drugs or schools . lol

 

[bripat9643]

Unfortunately it didn't work. Unsafe drugs are still approved by the FDA all the time. Take Thalidomide and Fen Phen, for instance. In the process, many life saving drugs are held off the market for years while thousands of people die.

Thalidomide was not approved by the FDA.

It was approved by many foreign equivalents of the FDA. Free samples were also distributed to physicians in the U.S.

Fen Phen is two drugs.

Any new drug combination requires FDA approval before it can be sold in the U.S.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Some of you idiots are actually championing getting rid of the FDA? LOL

I advocate doing away the Department of Education. As it is obvious that education is wasted on the majority of Americans.

I don't mean turn it over to the state level, or local. I mean totally do away with public schools and leave education up to the families.

It's obvious by listening to the average American opine about just about anything that they aren't learning anything anyway.

because clearly by abolishing the fda and doe there would no longer be safe drugs or schools . lol

of course there would be safe drugs without an FDA. There would also be many more unsafe drugs on the market.

Talk about a dishonest argument from you.

 

[bripat9643]

Couldn't find any, huh?
I didn't think so.

Places where it has failed:
Costa Rico
France
Germany
and in the U.S.

Libertarian experiments have invariably crumbled under real world conditions.

Really. Can you list the libertarian experiments that were tried and failed in those locations?

Yes.

The Movimiento Libertario is one of the most successful libertarian political parties in the world.Costa Rica's Movimiento Libertario (Libertarian Movement) is a prominent, non-U.S. libertarian party which holds roughly 10% of the seats in Costa Rica's national assembly (legislature). The Movimiento Libertario is considered the first libertarian organization to achieve substantial electoral success at the national level, though not without controversy. For example, Rigoberto Stewart, co-founder of the party and founder of the Limón REAL Project[ for autonomy in a province in Costa Rica, and director of INLAP, a libertarian think tank, lost his influence within Movimiento Libertario and support for the Limón REAL Project. As perhaps explained by Public Choice Theory, while accepting money from the Friedrich Naumann Foundation, a German liberal foundation, the party compromised on their libertarian principles in return for more power, turning to anti-libertarian positions.

There are other Libertarian parties that have had various amounts of success throughout the world. Libertarianism is emerging in France with the inception of Liberté Chérie (Cherished Liberty), a thinktank and activist association that has 2,000 members. Liberté Chérie gained significant publicity when it managed to draw 80,000 Parisians into the streets to demonstrate against government employees who were striking.

In Germany a Libertäre Plattform in der FDP (Liberty Caucus within the Free Democratic Party) was founded in 2005.

In 2001, the Free State Project was founded by Jason Sorens, a political scientist and libertarian activist who argued that 20,000 libertarians should migrate to a single U.S. state in order to concentrate their activism. In August 2003, the membership of the Free State Project chose New Hampshire because of its friendliness to libertarian causes (note the state motto: Live Free or Die), limited government, citizen legislature (paid only $100 per year) and history of political activism. Despite the lower than expected rate of growth, the Free State Project has seen moderate success. They saw their first member elected to the New Hampshire legislature in 2006 and successfully completed the "First 1000" pledge in 2005, which signed up 1,033 people to move to New Hampshire by 2008. Some of the original Free Staters (about 1,000) were discontented with the choice of New Hampshire. Some have started rival projects, including the Free West Alliance, Free State Wyoming and North to the Future, a project for a Free Alaskan Nation, to concentrate activism in a different state or region

All you have proven is that libertarians have failed to gain control of government. This discussion is about libertarian policies. Where have they been tried and failed?

 

[bripat9643]

of course there would be safe drugs without an FDA. There would also be many more unsafe drugs on the market.

Talk about a dishonest argument from you.

Why would anyone take a drug known to be unsafe?

 

[JustTheFacts]

of course there would be safe drugs without an FDA. There would also be many more unsafe drugs on the market.

Talk about a dishonest argument from you.

Why would anyone take a drug known to be unsafe?

Without the FDA doing independent testing there is only way to know if a drug is unsafe.

I value human health more than you apparently.

 

[Oddball]

Some of you idiots are actually championing getting rid of the FDA? LOL

I advocate doing away the Department of Education. As it is obvious that education is wasted on the majority of Americans.

I don't mean turn it over to the state level, or local. I mean totally do away with public schools and leave education up to the families.

It's obvious by listening to the average American opine about just about anything that they aren't learning anything anyway.

because clearly by abolishing the fda and doe there would no longer be safe drugs or schools . lol

of course there would be safe drugs without an FDA. There would also be many more unsafe drugs on the market.

Talk about a dishonest argument from you.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a fallacious and dishonest argument.

 

[bripat9643]

of course there would be safe drugs without an FDA. There would also be many more unsafe drugs on the market.

Talk about a dishonest argument from you.

Why would anyone take a drug known to be unsafe?

Without the FDA doing independent testing there is only way to know if a drug is unsafe.

I value human health more than you apparently.

The drug companies do all the drug testing, not the FDA. What makes you think they wouldn't perform such testing without the FDA? Why do you think various consumer groups wouldn't keep tabs on the safety and effectiveness of drugs being sold?

Also, you're forgetting the fact that drugs that cause harm to people generate multimillion dollar lawsuits. Drugs companies will go to significant lengths to avoid such lawsuits. Most of the improvements in the safety of consumer products is the result of such lawsuits, not government regulation.

 

[JustTheFacts]

because clearly by abolishing the fda and doe there would no longer be safe drugs or schools . lol

of course there would be safe drugs without an FDA. There would also be many more unsafe drugs on the market.

Talk about a dishonest argument from you.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a fallacious and dishonest argument.

Drawing conclusions based on evidence is call the scientific method my friend, I suggest you learn it.

Or do you instead contend that just because other countries which don't have regulatory agencies in place have a tendency to be guinea pigs for medicines which turn out to be dangerous to humans doesn't mean the US would as well if the FDA were removed?

Yes, I'm sure if the FDA were dissolved tomorrow big pharma would get together and have a discussion along the lines of

"now guys, just because the FDA has been shuttered, let's not all act in the US the way we do in other countries that have no regulation, no sir let's prove we can do it right without the FDA"

fucking laughable.

I suppose you also believe that if the minimum wage and forty hour work week were taken off the books that no companies would offer lower wages nor would they force employees to work over 40 hours .


Does the FDA need to be streamlined ? Of course it does, I can't think of a government entity which doesn't need to be, but trusting pharmaceutical companies would do the right thing is beyond stupid.

I suspect you don't even really believe that, you just are here arguing for argument sakes thinking to yourself " oh boy oh boy advocating shutting down an entire government agency would just really make me look like a conservative"

no, it makes you look like an idiot.