The Personhood of the unborn needs to be settled

[playtime]

View attachment 261221

I do believe that if you are pro-abortion, you have nothing to say to anyone else about morality, and should be ashamed of flattering yourself like that.

silly, hyperbolic you............ nobody is pro abortion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Let's settle it this way. The fetus is NOT a person. It is a potential person. It was NOT created or ordained of God. It is the physical product of human biology which makes it both the responsibility and the property of its actual creators - its parents

If it is the physical product of human biology, then why isn't this product also physically human?

Can you answer that for me?

If the fetus isn't human, how can you say two human parents created it? How can you say it is "the property" of the two obviously human creators?

Do you realize how badly this undercuts your entire argument?

Can it walk, talk or chew gum? Does a fetus have any sentient awareness? Can it survivie outside the womb? A fetus is a potential human but is a long, long way from being a human. Incidentally, my shit is a product of human biology and you're not granting it rights. You place far too much value on potential human life, and not nearly enough on the living, breathing human beings who created it and who will be responsible for raising the child to come, to be a functioning, self- sufficient, contributing member of society.

Given how hard that is, expecially when you're poor, I'd really rather people aren't forced to give birth to children they don't want or can't afford. Forcing poor women to have babies is ridiculous. The rich will just go to Canada.

As has been pointed out numerous times, YOU do not have enough sentient awareness to be taking that smug superior attitude toward anyone else's, let alone to feel safe advocating for killing people on that basis. Trust me, your continued existence on Earth depends on people being willing to let more primitive, unreasoning lifeforms exist.

 

[playtime]

yes... look how we are treating those precious babies.... defending the ' sanctity of life ' my ass..........

 

[Jackson]

It is so easy for some of you to say "Kill the baby! It is my in my body and I can do with it what I want." How did that baby get in your body? You allowed, perhaps even encouraged entry of the sperm to create that baby. Now deal with it, In nine months you can get rid of that child and hand it off to anyone...including the father. And you'll get fat. Really fat. Actions have consequences. Welcome the family who received the new born, It will be a better parent than you!.

 

[OldLady]

In this day and age, there is no reason for unwanted children. There is enough hell in this world. Birth control is better -- an ounce of prevention, as they say. But try being practical for once. Why would you force someone who is not willing or able to rear a child to have one and take on the life long commitment they already said they will not cannot do? What is wrong with that? Pushing adoption as a solution is not practical either--our adoption system is already full of kids who need parents.

Our abortion rate has been dropping steadily since 1980 and is now as low as when abortion was first made legal in 1973. That is good news and whatever we're doing right needs to continue, but banning abortion and making illegal again is not the answer. Better birth control and availability of family planning and public acceptance of careful contraception is the answer. Planned Parenthood is essential to this. Leave them alone.

Why do you insist on thinking that WE are forcing them to do anything? They forced THEMSELVES into that position by engaging in an act designed to produce the result they just said they don't want. I for one neither plan to feel guilty, nor to endorse infanticide, because some dumbass indulged in self-destructive behavior, got the obvious result, and is now whining to me because it's "unfair" that nature didn't reverse its rules for her "specialness".

Not sure I'm interested in your idea of "practical", which looks remarkably like the "practicality" shown by every evil dictator in human history: these people are inconvenient, so the "practical" thing to do is kill them. Pass.

Sex is not "self-destructive behavior." LOL It is one of the fundamental urges hardwired into our brains and people will NOT stop participating in it, no matter how much you scowl at them or wag your finger.

Of course you call it evil; what a shocker.

Poverty breeds all kinds of negative behaviors and poor outcomes that cost our government much more in the long run than a $600 termination of pregnancy. That is known, settled fact. If parents can't afford a child, why you are championing more of that, I am not sure.

Sex is frequently self-destructive behavior. "LOL" That you don't know this tells me everything I need to know about your life. Look at people who cheat on their spouses; people who get drunk and wake up next to a total stranger; people who wind up in therapy for sex addiction. Just because something is a fundamental urge doesn't mean that any and every expression of that urge is a good and positive thing for you. Eating is a whole lot more fundamental and necessary than sex, but I dare you to walk into a Weight Watchers and tell those people that that means eating can't ever be self-destructive.

Of course you think acknowledging that people should control and channel their urges is "calling it evil". Nothing shocking about a leftist being amoral and illogical at the same time.

Do not fucking start lecturing me on "If we just had more government giveaway programs, all problems would be solved, and we wouldn't have to stop fucking like crazed weasels."

I'm not championing parents having children they can't afford, you obtuse twat. I champion them not making extra children in the first place. But I don't think killing a child once you HAVE made it is any kind of solution. I'm afraid I just can't muster your level of soulless, cold-blooded evil.

Providing safe affordable daycare so that mothers can work and keep a roof over their heads and NOT on welfare is not a government giveaway program. It allows mothers to work; even you should agree that is a good thing.

No one said people shouldn't control their urges and I'd love to see where I called that "evil." It is simply impractical to assume that people are going to fall in line with that thinking. The majority of folks do not immediately think "PREGNANCY" when the mood strikes. They are thinking something quite different. Unless you are now and have always been frigid, you know that, too.

I agree with you that sex CAN be self-destructive. It is not usually self-destructive, which seemed to be your premise. Perhaps I was wrong.

I have responded to you civilly, and I would appreciate a reply in kind.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Can it walk, talk or chew gum? Does a fetus have any sentient awareness? Can it survivie outside the womb?

First, as the child is developing in the womb, it is reliant on the nutrients supplied to it by the mother. Her diet and physical condition determine the health of the baby (assuming a full term pregnancy)

Second, after birth, the child is again reliant on either of its parents to feed and nurture it. The amount of nurturing the child gets determines whether the child lives or dies.

Third, throughout childhood, the child is dependent on the parents for basic needs. This period is when the child should be taught how to care for themself. How well the child learns to take care of themself through their teenage years and adulthood will determine if they live or die.

The one key similarity? Dependence.

Now, to wrap that up...

Your key argument is that since the fetus depends on the mother, the fetus is not human and therefore part of the mother. Since it has not yet developed "sentience" as you so define it, it is not human.

WRONG.

If we used your argument, then the fetus, the baby, and the child would not be human. If that child is born with a cognitive disorder that robs he or she of their sentience or awareness, they cease to be human. None would be human until they shed their dependency on their parents or gained/regained the "sentient awareness." For the next decade or two (or the rest of their life for that matter), the child/adult would be a "potential human".

Your argument is flawed. Your argument is emotional.

And since I am not a homeless man in San Francisco, I am not going to rifle through more of your garbage post.

Have a good morning.

You have more patience than I do. I can't work up even this much ability to treat her posts as if they're coming from a semi-reasoning creature.

 

[Jackson]

And that post brings an interesting question. What if the father wanted that baby and took the mother to court to determine if the court could order her to allow the baby to strive in her womb and at birth she would give the baby to the father. I cannot imagine any jury or judge to demand the baby aborted rather than be a loved child with the father, That would be so wrong.

 

[danielpalos]

No need to play stupid. The key word is becomes. Not is. And it night never become. Most pregnancies do not.

Hey look...I'm not debating the hair splitting twisted semantics you whackos hide behind to justify your filth...That said, do you think it's odd that you defend an eagles egg the way you do?

You are obsessed with filth. Stop projecting it on others. It is not semantics. Now keep your filthy hands off of our rights.

View attachment 261281

Conservatives:
“We want you to pay for your own children.”

Filthy Pieces Of Shits:
“What...you think my children are better off dead?”

The level of Loon from you LefTarded folks grows by the day.

that is the right wing.

We want the right wing to pay for their general warfare.

 

[danielpalos]

You’re going to do what LefTards do...hide behind the one percentile to justify your filth?
Hmm..I wonder how many abortions you’ve had performed?

Birth control failing is more than 1%. And especially with put the obesity rates, birth control failure is higher. Birth control methods like the pill are less effective on overweight women, along with the morning after pill.

Then there are medical conditions that call for it.

I did have to have an abortion one time, because I had an ectopic pregnancy. So am I a murderer too?

What you are is willfully stupid, if you really can't tell the difference between ending an ectopic pregnancy and having an abortion because motherhood would interfere with your promotion at work.

For one who brags what a good Christian they are, you sure talk like a stupid white trash bitch. Fake Christian says what?

Ooh, I see a red herring twitting about. A non Christian trying to identify real Christians. Cute. Moving on.



Did it ever occur to any of you far leftists that as a woman, Cecilie is just as qualified to speak on abortion rights as any woman to the far left of her?

The idea that she isn't qualified to speak on the issue due to her political opinion on abortion is uh... how can I say this? Sexist. Discriminatory. Nothing about her opinion disqualifies her from speaking on abortion or the ethics thereof. I can't speak to whether she has had children or not, but if she has, she would have far more experience on the issue of the humanity of a child than some people trying to pass off "a fetus isn't human" as scientific fact.

& as a woman - if she doesn't believe in choice, then it is her choice not to have an abortion. yep --- it really is that simple.

make like a vaccination.

 

[Votto]

Then from your vantage point a dolphin should have more rights than a severely brain damaged human being.

Only in the ocean. One of the reasons we have been so successful is our ability to have compassion. I just don't think that was given to us by some external force.

Also, those who are deemed mentally challenged by the state might some day be rounded up and treated like animals.

Those who are mentally challenged and who have no one to care or look after them are already treated like animals in many places.

The great part about the unborn is that you can't see them or hear them. In short, they have no voice.

Good luck with compassion. I suppose you could show pictures to generate compassion for them after the fact, but then, you would probably be censored by such entities as Facebook and shut down for right wing extremism.

Imagine, human worth based only upon another's compassion?

Very odd.

I suppose all I can do is cross my fingers and hope that those in power have compassion for me.

 

[danielpalos]

You are obsessed with filth. Stop projecting it on others. It is not semantics. Now keep your filthy hands off of our rights.

View attachment 261281

Conservatives:
“We want you to pay for your own children.”

Filthy Pieces Of Shits:
“What...you think my children are better off dead?”

The level of Loon from you LefTarded folks grows by the day.

Filthy Pieces of Shit: we wont help you with your kids but we sure as hell will force you to bear them.

LefTard Logic:
Filthy Pieces Of Shits = Those who expect people to pay for their own children

Not Filthy Pieces Of Shits = Those who expect others to pay for their children.

Folks, I’m not making this shit up.

inequality does that. i am not making it up either.

 

[dblack]

It is so easy for some of you to say "Kill the baby! It is my in my body and I can do with it what I want."

It's not easy for me to say. Just like it's not easy for me to say that drugs should be legal when I know how devastating drug addiction can be. Just like it's not easy for me to speak out against welfare, knowing how much poverty sucks. Just like it's not easy for me to speak out against overreaching civil rights laws despite the fact that racism is scourge on society. But in each of these cases, the ends do not justify the means. The proposed "solution" is worse than the problem.

 

[OldLady]

Given how hard that is, expecially when you're poor, I'd really rather people aren't forced to give birth to children they don't want or can't afford. Forcing poor women to have babies is ridiculous. The rich will just go to Canada.

Yanno, if you don't want to be sullied with the responsibility of a child, simply practice abstinence. If not that, birth control. Don't wait until it is developing in your womb to say "I want control of my body!"

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.

Now I'm dirty. Time for breakfast and a shower.

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.
Whoa! There are two equally responsible people involved in that scenario, and it's about time everyone started remembering that.
No more of this slut shaming women who find themselves pregnant after engaging in sex which is considered good sport for the men and only nasty for the women.
Nuh-uh.

 

[progressive hunter]

Given how hard that is, expecially when you're poor, I'd really rather people aren't forced to give birth to children they don't want or can't afford. Forcing poor women to have babies is ridiculous. The rich will just go to Canada.

Yanno, if you don't want to be sullied with the responsibility of a child, simply practice abstinence. If not that, birth control. Don't wait until it is developing in your womb to say "I want control of my body!"

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.

Now I'm dirty. Time for breakfast and a shower.

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.
Whoa! There are two equally responsible people involved in that scenario, and it's about time everyone started remembering that.
No more of this slut shaming women who find themselves pregnant after engaging in sex which is considered good sport for the men and only nasty for the women.
Nuh-uh.

correct,, but only one of them can get pregnant and then go on to murder the child,,,

 

[BlindBoo]

Then from your vantage point a dolphin should have more rights than a severely brain damaged human being.

Only in the ocean. One of the reasons we have been so successful is our ability to have compassion. I just don't think that was given to us by some external force.

Also, those who are deemed mentally challenged by the state might some day be rounded up and treated like animals.

Those who are mentally challenged and who have no one to care or look after them are already treated like animals in many places.

The great part about the unborn is that you can't see them or hear them. In short, they have no voice.

Good luck with compassion. I suppose you could show pictures to generate compassion for them after the fact, but then, you would probably be censored by such entities as Facebook and shut down for right wing extremism.

Imagine, human worth based only upon another's compassion?

Very odd.

I suppose all I can do is cross my fingers and hope that those in power have compassion for me.

Nah the great part about the unborn in this country is that most have parents who already love them and are willing to do just about anything in their power to help them for the rest of their lives.

 

[Votto]

Then from your vantage point a dolphin should have more rights than a severely brain damaged human being.

Only in the ocean. One of the reasons we have been so successful is our ability to have compassion. I just don't think that was given to us by some external force.

Also, those who are deemed mentally challenged by the state might some day be rounded up and treated like animals.

Those who are mentally challenged and who have no one to care or look after them are already treated like animals in many places.

The great part about the unborn is that you can't see them or hear them. In short, they have no voice.

Good luck with compassion. I suppose you could show pictures to generate compassion for them after the fact, but then, you would probably be censored by such entities as Facebook and shut down for right wing extremism.

Imagine, human worth based only upon another's compassion?

Very odd.

I suppose all I can do is cross my fingers and hope that those in power have compassion for me.

Nah the great part about the unborn in this country is that most have parents who already love them and are willing to do just about anything in their power to help them for the rest of their lives.

60 million plus aborted since Roe vs. Wade?

Sounds like they care more about other things..........

 

[basquebromance]

These politicians in Alabama, Georgia, and across the country are using women as political pawns to overturn Roe v. Wade. If you care about families' rights to make their own decisions, electing Beto in 2020 could not be more important!

BETO! BETO! BETO! BETO! BETO! BETO!

 

[ding]

With the recent ruling in Alabama regarding abortion, and the eventual path towards SCOTUS to settle the issue, the obvious thing to do is to define what exactly the unborn is, something Roe vs. Wade shied away from doing. After all, the reason blacks were mistreated under the Constitution was because they were not identified as equals, they were 3/5 a human being.

There are but two possibilities from my vantage point.

1. They are a parasite, defined as an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism

2. Or they are a human being.

Which camp do you fall in?

They are not a person.

Lets play stupid and pretend we don't know what a fetus becomes....Lets play stupid and pretend we don't know what's inside an eagles egg.

No need to play stupid. The key word is becomes. Not is. And it night never become. Most pregnancies do not.

At any point along the continuum he or she is fully human.

It is always fully human, the question is at what point does it 's's rights equal or exceeds the mothers? It isnt a parasite or "lump of flesh". But neither does it have individual rights and responsibilities until birth.

That’s a slippery slope.

Putting that aside I don’t think you can say he or she is fully human and then in the same breath call it a parasite and a lump of flesh.

But to answer your question when it is a living human. That’s when. So conception.

 

[ding]

With the recent ruling in Alabama regarding abortion, and the eventual path towards SCOTUS to settle the issue, the obvious thing to do is to define what exactly the unborn is, something Roe vs. Wade shied away from doing. After all, the reason blacks were mistreated under the Constitution was because they were not identified as equals, they were 3/5 a human being.

There are but two possibilities from my vantage point.

1. They are a parasite, defined as an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism

2. Or they are a human being.

Which camp do you fall in?

They are not a person.

How do we legally identify a person if not through DNA. DNA says they are human.

Humanity alone does not confer rights or personhood.

Sure it does. We have inalienable rights for no other reason.

 

[BlindBoo]

Then from your vantage point a dolphin should have more rights than a severely brain damaged human being.

Only in the ocean. One of the reasons we have been so successful is our ability to have compassion. I just don't think that was given to us by some external force.

Also, those who are deemed mentally challenged by the state might some day be rounded up and treated like animals.

Those who are mentally challenged and who have no one to care or look after them are already treated like animals in many places.

The great part about the unborn is that you can't see them or hear them. In short, they have no voice.

Good luck with compassion. I suppose you could show pictures to generate compassion for them after the fact, but then, you would probably be censored by such entities as Facebook and shut down for right wing extremism.

Imagine, human worth based only upon another's compassion?

Very odd.

I suppose all I can do is cross my fingers and hope that those in power have compassion for me.

Nah the great part about the unborn in this country is that most have parents who already love them and are willing to do just about anything in their power to help them for the rest of their lives.

60 million plus aborted since Roe vs. Wade?

Sounds like they care more about other things..........

The number of live births are about triple that number. How many of those women went on to have other children later on in life?