The Personhood of the unborn needs to be settled

[OldLady]

banning abortion is not giving anyone a chance to make a decision, is it?

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

Give me a link; I tried to find one with actual stats or facts, and couldn't.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The most common reason for abortion is financial. However, if incest as a reason for abortion were not a real consideration, why is it listed as an exception in almost every proposed law to limit or prohibit abortion? Often the girl is young and still home with parents, who take her for the abortion whether she wants one or not

Aren't you tired of all the killing yet?

 

[OldLady]

banning abortion is not giving anyone a chance to make a decision, is it?

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

I'm not the one losing my temper here.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

banning abortion is not giving anyone a chance to make a decision, is it?

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

Give me a link; I tried to find one with actual stats or facts, and couldn't.

According to Kathleen DeZeeuw, "I, having lived through rape, and also having raised a child 'conceived in rape,' feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape and incest. I feel that we're being used by pro-abortionists to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side."

The case against abortion of incest pregnancies is even stronger. Studies show that incest victims rarely ever voluntarily agree to an abortion.4 Instead of viewing the pregnancy as unwanted, the incest victim is more likely to see the pregnancy as a way out of the incestuous relationship because the birth of her child will expose the sexual activity. She is also likely to see in her pregnancy the hope of bearing a child with whom she can establish a true loving relationship, one far different than the exploitive relationship in which she has been trapped.

But while the incest victim may treasure her pregnancy because it offers her hope of release, and the hope of finding a nurturing love, her pregnancy is a threat to the exploiter. It is also a threat to the pathological secrecy which may envelop other members of the family who are afraid to acknowledge that the abuse is occurring. Because of this dual threat, the victim may be coerced into an unwanted abortion by both the abuser and other family members.

 

[OldLady]

In this day and age, there is no reason for unwanted children. There is enough hell in this world. Birth control is better -- an ounce of prevention, as they say. But try being practical for once. Why would you force someone who is not willing or able to rear a child to have one and take on the life long commitment they already said they will not cannot do? What is wrong with that? Pushing adoption as a solution is not practical either--our adoption system is already full of kids who need parents.

Our abortion rate has been dropping steadily since 1980 and is now as low as when abortion was first made legal in 1973. That is good news and whatever we're doing right needs to continue, but banning abortion and making illegal again is not the answer. Better birth control and availability of family planning and public acceptance of careful contraception is the answer. Planned Parenthood is essential to this. Leave them alone.

Why do you insist on thinking that WE are forcing them to do anything? They forced THEMSELVES into that position by engaging in an act designed to produce the result they just said they don't want. I for one neither plan to feel guilty, nor to endorse infanticide, because some dumbass indulged in self-destructive behavior, got the obvious result, and is now whining to me because it's "unfair" that nature didn't reverse its rules for her "specialness".

Not sure I'm interested in your idea of "practical", which looks remarkably like the "practicality" shown by every evil dictator in human history: these people are inconvenient, so the "practical" thing to do is kill them. Pass.

Sex is not "self-destructive behavior." LOL It is one of the fundamental urges hardwired into our brains and people will NOT stop participating in it, no matter how much you scowl at them or wag your finger.

Of course you call it evil; what a shocker.

Poverty breeds all kinds of negative behaviors and poor outcomes that cost our government much more in the long run than a $600 termination of pregnancy. That is known, settled fact. If parents can't afford a child, why you are championing more of that, I am not sure.

Sex is frequently self-destructive behavior. "LOL" That you don't know this tells me everything I need to know about your life. Look at people who cheat on their spouses; people who get drunk and wake up next to a total stranger; people who wind up in therapy for sex addiction. Just because something is a fundamental urge doesn't mean that any and every expression of that urge is a good and positive thing for you. Eating is a whole lot more fundamental and necessary than sex, but I dare you to walk into a Weight Watchers and tell those people that that means eating can't ever be self-destructive.

Of course you think acknowledging that people should control and channel their urges is "calling it evil". Nothing shocking about a leftist being amoral and illogical at the same time.

Do not fucking start lecturing me on "If we just had more government giveaway programs, all problems would be solved, and we wouldn't have to stop fucking like crazed weasels."

I'm not championing parents having children they can't afford, you obtuse twat. I champion them not making extra children in the first place. But I don't think killing a child once you HAVE made it is any kind of solution. I'm afraid I just can't muster your level of soulless, cold-blooded evil.

Providing safe affordable daycare so that mothers can work and keep a roof over their heads and NOT on welfare is not a government giveaway program. It allows mothers to work; even you should agree that is a good thing.

No one said people shouldn't control their urges and I'd love to see where I called that "evil." It is simply impractical to assume that people are going to fall in line with that thinking. The majority of folks do not immediately think "PREGNANCY" when the mood strikes. They are thinking something quite different. Unless you are now and have always been frigid, you know that, too.

I agree with you that sex CAN be self-destructive. It is not usually self-destructive, which seemed to be your premise. Perhaps I was wrong.

I have responded to you civilly, and I would appreciate a reply in kind.

Clearly, you don't understand English the first time it comes at you, so let me do you the courtesy of repeating myself for the comprehension-impaired:

Do not fucking start lecturing me on "If we just had more government giveaway programs, all problems would be solved, and we wouldn't have to stop fucking like crazed weasels."

Moving along to other things that reveal you're completely illiterate and should be embarrassed to speak where someone might hear you:

No one said people shouldn't control their urges and I'd love to see where I called that "evil."

Seriously, learn English, cow. What the hell's wrong with you?! HERE is the actual conversation that your stupid ass couldn't follow the first time around:

ME: I for one neither plan to feel guilty, nor to endorse infanticide, because some dumbass indulged in self-destructive behavior . . . Not sure I'm interested in your idea of "practical", which looks remarkably like the "practicality" shown by every evil dictator in human history . . .

YOU: Sex is not "self-destructive behavior." Of course you call it evil; what a shocker.

ME: Sex is frequently self-destructive behavior . . . Of course you think acknowledging that people should control and channel their urges is "calling it evil".

YOU: No one said people shouldn't control their urges and I'd love to see where I called that "evil."

Do you see where you're conversing with the voices in your own senile head, and responding to me about things THEY said? Do you get that you're in a completely different fucking conversation than THIS one, getting your granny panties all riled up over things you only imagine were said? Do you recognize that you sound like a babbling moron? If you're going to talk to ME, then respond to MY words, not the ones you wish I had said.

Now go back and try it again, and at least PRETEND to be coherent.

Okay. I asked for a civil response. I read your first two sentences and gave up. I'm not in this to see who can be the biggest bitch. You're back on ignore. Hope others enjoy your posts.

 

[TemplarKormac]

banning abortion is not giving anyone a chance to make a decision, is it?

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

I'm not the one losing my temper here.

Hmm. I sensed a lot of anger towards the male half of the human species earlier. As if he is the sole reason why she has to have an abortion. "Sex is a sport for men" you said, or something to that effect.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

banning abortion is not giving anyone a chance to make a decision, is it?

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

Give me a link; I tried to find one with actual stats or facts, and couldn't.

Let Me Google That For You (the answer is, 0.13%)

LMGTFY


.

 

[OldLady]

banning abortion is not giving anyone a chance to make a decision, is it?

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

I'm not the one losing my temper here.

Hmm. I sensed a lot of anger towards the male half of the human species earlier. As if he is the sole reason why she has to have an abortion. "Sex is a sport for men" you said, or something to that effect.

Nope, not angry at the male half of the human species. Just at men who don't take responsibility for their half of making a baby and are ready to heap shame on the woman while feeling he is nothing but a normal male. For doing exactly the same thing. It is a societal view that when men sleep around, it is "sowing his wild oats." When a woman behaves comparably, she is a whore. Just about everyone used to buy into that, and I guess some people still do.

 

[OldLady]

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

Give me a link; I tried to find one with actual stats or facts, and couldn't.

Let Me Google That For You (the answer is, 0.13%)

LMGTFY


.

I see, you made it up.

 

[progressive hunter]

Yanno, if you don't want to be sullied with the responsibility of a child, simply practice abstinence. If not that, birth control. Don't wait until it is developing in your womb to say "I want control of my body!"

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.

Now I'm dirty. Time for breakfast and a shower.

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.
Whoa! There are two equally responsible people involved in that scenario, and it's about time everyone started remembering that.
No more of this slut shaming women who find themselves pregnant after engaging in sex which is considered good sport for the men and only nasty for the women.
Nuh-uh.

correct,, but only one of them can get pregnant and then go on to murder the child,,,

No woman can get pregnant on her own; it takes a male.

A woman chosing a termination of pregnancy is not committing murder. The developing embryo and fetus is a potential human in early stages and each fertilization of an egg will result in a different potential human. Like many many rolls of the dice, there is great variety in the human experiment. It is best to wait until the parents are ready to welcome and care for their children. This dice roll may not be at the right time. There will be other chances, as many as you wish to take.

If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. Help young women who feel there is no other option to come up with a better plan. That's fine. But don't push your belief onto someone else by making abortion illegal. Doctors don't believe it is murder and the law does not believe it is murder and most of the people in this country do not believe it is murder. It is a termination of pregnancy. Make another roll of the dice when you are ready to accept Mother Nature's consequences for the act.

abortion is murder and this whole conversation is about other options,,,

and if you werent so dead set on killing as the first option this conversation wouldnt be a waste of time,,,

You are the one who is wasting everyone's time here. I have certainly not heard any "conversation" about other options. All I've heard is a lot of name calling and extreme rhetoric meant to get people outraged. No conversation here.

so you havent heard one person talk about birth control, abstinence, or adoption???
if not you need to get out more,,


and yes a lot of name calling from the baby killers,,,

 

[OldLady]

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

Give me a link; I tried to find one with actual stats or facts, and couldn't.

Let Me Google That For You (the answer is, 0.13%)

LMGTFY


.

Still waiting on that link.

 

[progressive hunter]

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

I'm not the one losing my temper here.

Hmm. I sensed a lot of anger towards the male half of the human species earlier. As if he is the sole reason why she has to have an abortion. "Sex is a sport for men" you said, or something to that effect.

Nope, not angry at the male half of the human species. Just at men who don't take responsibility for their half of making a baby and are ready to heap shame on the woman while feeling he is nothing but a normal male. For doing exactly the same thing. It is a societal view that when men sleep around, it is "sowing his wild oats." When a woman behaves comparably, she is a whore. Just about everyone used to buy into that, and I guess some people still do.

how can a man take responsibility if the women can kill his child without his permission???

 

[BlindBoo]

banning abortion is not giving anyone a chance to make a decision, is it?

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

How about late term abortions based on incest? How likely is a victim to come forward early in the pregnancy? Late term abortions make up a small % of all abortions too.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

Give me a link; I tried to find one with actual stats or facts, and couldn't.

Let Me Google That For You (the answer is, 0.13%)

LMGTFY


.

I see, you made it up.

Nope. I even took you 90% there. Please learn how to use google.

 

[edward37]

 

[progressive hunter]

who said anything about punishing the women????

 

[OldLady]

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

Give me a link; I tried to find one with actual stats or facts, and couldn't.

Let Me Google That For You (the answer is, 0.13%)

LMGTFY


.

I see, you made it up.

Nope. I even took you 90% there. Please learn how to use google.

I told you I googled it already and did not find stats on it in a reasonable amount of time. You made the assertion of FACT and it is therefore up to you to confirm it with a reliable source.
If you don't, I will continue to disregard it.

 

[anynameyouwish]

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.
Whoa! There are two equally responsible people involved in that scenario, and it's about time everyone started remembering that.
No more of this slut shaming women who find themselves pregnant after engaging in sex which is considered good sport for the men and only nasty for the women.
Nuh-uh.

correct,, but only one of them can get pregnant and then go on to murder the child,,,

No woman can get pregnant on her own; it takes a male.

A woman chosing a termination of pregnancy is not committing murder. The developing embryo and fetus is a potential human in early stages and each fertilization of an egg will result in a different potential human. Like many many rolls of the dice, there is great variety in the human experiment. It is best to wait until the parents are ready to welcome and care for their children. This dice roll may not be at the right time. There will be other chances, as many as you wish to take.

If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. Help young women who feel there is no other option to come up with a better plan. That's fine. But don't push your belief onto someone else by making abortion illegal. Doctors don't believe it is murder and the law does not believe it is murder and most of the people in this country do not believe it is murder. It is a termination of pregnancy. Make another roll of the dice when you are ready to accept Mother Nature's consequences for the act.

abortion is murder and this whole conversation is about other options,,,

and if you werent so dead set on killing as the first option this conversation wouldnt be a waste of time,,,

You are the one who is wasting everyone's time here. I have certainly not heard any "conversation" about other options. All I've heard is a lot of name calling and extreme rhetoric meant to get people outraged. No conversation here.

so you havent heard one person talk about birth control, abstinence, or adoption???
if not you need to get out more,,


and yes a lot of name calling from the baby killers,,,

seriously?

1/2 of every conservative argument is name calling....

trump does it every day!

 

[anynameyouwish]

who said anything about punishing the women????

16 year old girl gets pregnant

can't have an abortion

has the baby

has to go to work AND take care of the baby at the same time

low paying job

living in poverty

can't afford an apartment

lives in car on street

where she and baby die

 

[progressive hunter]

correct,, but only one of them can get pregnant and then go on to murder the child,,,

No woman can get pregnant on her own; it takes a male.

A woman chosing a termination of pregnancy is not committing murder. The developing embryo and fetus is a potential human in early stages and each fertilization of an egg will result in a different potential human. Like many many rolls of the dice, there is great variety in the human experiment. It is best to wait until the parents are ready to welcome and care for their children. This dice roll may not be at the right time. There will be other chances, as many as you wish to take.

If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. Help young women who feel there is no other option to come up with a better plan. That's fine. But don't push your belief onto someone else by making abortion illegal. Doctors don't believe it is murder and the law does not believe it is murder and most of the people in this country do not believe it is murder. It is a termination of pregnancy. Make another roll of the dice when you are ready to accept Mother Nature's consequences for the act.

abortion is murder and this whole conversation is about other options,,,

and if you werent so dead set on killing as the first option this conversation wouldnt be a waste of time,,,

You are the one who is wasting everyone's time here. I have certainly not heard any "conversation" about other options. All I've heard is a lot of name calling and extreme rhetoric meant to get people outraged. No conversation here.

so you havent heard one person talk about birth control, abstinence, or adoption???
if not you need to get out more,,


and yes a lot of name calling from the baby killers,,,

seriously?

1/2 of every conservative argument is name calling....

trump does it every day!

who said trumps a conservative???

hes a big government progressive in my book,,

and besides when youre trying to convince a baby killer to not kill babys what else is left,,,