The Personhood of the unborn needs to be settled

[edward37]

who said anything about punishing the women????

Your republican snakes have declared war on women Any lady voting republican has her head up her ass

 

[progressive hunter]

who said anything about punishing the women????

16 year old girl gets pregnant

can't have an abortion

has the baby

has to go to work AND take care of the baby at the same time

low paying job

living in poverty

can't afford an apartment

lives in car on street

where she and baby die

its called adoption,,,

 

[progressive hunter]

who said anything about punishing the women????

Your republican snakes have declared war on women Any lady voting republican has her head up her ass

I'm not a republican,,,

and it sounds more like its you that has a war on women because they wont do as you say,,,

 

[OldLady]

correct,, but only one of them can get pregnant and then go on to murder the child,,,

No woman can get pregnant on her own; it takes a male.

A woman chosing a termination of pregnancy is not committing murder. The developing embryo and fetus is a potential human in early stages and each fertilization of an egg will result in a different potential human. Like many many rolls of the dice, there is great variety in the human experiment. It is best to wait until the parents are ready to welcome and care for their children. This dice roll may not be at the right time. There will be other chances, as many as you wish to take.

If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. Help young women who feel there is no other option to come up with a better plan. That's fine. But don't push your belief onto someone else by making abortion illegal. Doctors don't believe it is murder and the law does not believe it is murder and most of the people in this country do not believe it is murder. It is a termination of pregnancy. Make another roll of the dice when you are ready to accept Mother Nature's consequences for the act.

abortion is murder and this whole conversation is about other options,,,

and if you werent so dead set on killing as the first option this conversation wouldnt be a waste of time,,,

You are the one who is wasting everyone's time here. I have certainly not heard any "conversation" about other options. All I've heard is a lot of name calling and extreme rhetoric meant to get people outraged. No conversation here.

so you havent heard one person talk about birth control, abstinence, or adoption???
if not you need to get out more,,


and yes a lot of name calling from the baby killers,,,

seriously?

1/2 of every conservative argument is name calling....

trump does it every day!

If I hadn't just put her on ignore, I could fill a page with just Cecilie's pejoratives.

 

[Mr Natural]

Your republican snakes have declared war on women Any lady voting republican has her head up her ass

But what's their alternative?

To vote for a communist (aka Democrat)?

 

[progressive hunter]

No woman can get pregnant on her own; it takes a male.

A woman chosing a termination of pregnancy is not committing murder. The developing embryo and fetus is a potential human in early stages and each fertilization of an egg will result in a different potential human. Like many many rolls of the dice, there is great variety in the human experiment. It is best to wait until the parents are ready to welcome and care for their children. This dice roll may not be at the right time. There will be other chances, as many as you wish to take.

If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. Help young women who feel there is no other option to come up with a better plan. That's fine. But don't push your belief onto someone else by making abortion illegal. Doctors don't believe it is murder and the law does not believe it is murder and most of the people in this country do not believe it is murder. It is a termination of pregnancy. Make another roll of the dice when you are ready to accept Mother Nature's consequences for the act.

abortion is murder and this whole conversation is about other options,,,

and if you werent so dead set on killing as the first option this conversation wouldnt be a waste of time,,,

You are the one who is wasting everyone's time here. I have certainly not heard any "conversation" about other options. All I've heard is a lot of name calling and extreme rhetoric meant to get people outraged. No conversation here.

so you havent heard one person talk about birth control, abstinence, or adoption???
if not you need to get out more,,


and yes a lot of name calling from the baby killers,,,

seriously?

1/2 of every conservative argument is name calling....

trump does it every day!

If I hadn't just put her on ignore, I could fill a page with just Cecilie's pejoratives.

so you label an entire group on the actions of one person,,,

 

[progressive hunter]

Your republican snakes have declared war on women Any lady voting republican has her head up her ass

But what's their alternative?

To vote for a communist (aka Democrat)?

there are options other than the two fascist partys,,,

 

[edward37]

Your republican snakes have declared war on women Any lady voting republican has her head up her ass

But what's their alternative?

To vote for a communist (aka Democrat)?

Biden is far from a Commy A good man a real man not some phony piece of lying cheating bullying garbage

 

[progressive hunter]

Your republican snakes have declared war on women Any lady voting republican has her head up her ass

But what's their alternative?

To vote for a communist (aka Democrat)?

Biden is far from a Commy A good man a real man not some phony piece of lying cheating bullying garbage

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!

 

[OldLady]

You really want to run with that?

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

Give me a link; I tried to find one with actual stats or facts, and couldn't.

According to Kathleen DeZeeuw, "I, having lived through rape, and also having raised a child 'conceived in rape,' feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape and incest. I feel that we're being used by pro-abortionists to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side."

The case against abortion of incest pregnancies is even stronger. Studies show that incest victims rarely ever voluntarily agree to an abortion.4 Instead of viewing the pregnancy as unwanted, the incest victim is more likely to see the pregnancy as a way out of the incestuous relationship because the birth of her child will expose the sexual activity. She is also likely to see in her pregnancy the hope of bearing a child with whom she can establish a true loving relationship, one far different than the exploitive relationship in which she has been trapped.

But while the incest victim may treasure her pregnancy because it offers her hope of release, and the hope of finding a nurturing love, her pregnancy is a threat to the exploiter. It is also a threat to the pathological secrecy which may envelop other members of the family who are afraid to acknowledge that the abuse is occurring. Because of this dual threat, the victim may be coerced into an unwanted abortion by both the abuser and other family members.

Thanks. That article is one I actually read. It is from the Elliott Institute (also known as afterabortion.org), whose position on abortion is, in their words, "our belief that proving how abortion hurts so many women is the key to ending the scourge of abortion."
It contained no statistics, either.
But I appreciate it.

 

[Mr Natural]

Your republican snakes have declared war on women Any lady voting republican has her head up her ass

But what's their alternative?

To vote for a communist (aka Democrat)?

Biden is far from a Commy A good man a real man not some phony piece of lying cheating bullying garbage

I don't think you fully understand the conservative mindset.

Here it is: If you are not as Bible thumping, flag waving America loving right wing conservative, then the only other alternative is that you're a communist. There is no middle ground in binary thinking Conservatopia.

 

[OldLady]

abortion is murder and this whole conversation is about other options,,,

and if you werent so dead set on killing as the first option this conversation wouldnt be a waste of time,,,

You are the one who is wasting everyone's time here. I have certainly not heard any "conversation" about other options. All I've heard is a lot of name calling and extreme rhetoric meant to get people outraged. No conversation here.

so you havent heard one person talk about birth control, abstinence, or adoption???
if not you need to get out more,,


and yes a lot of name calling from the baby killers,,,

seriously?

1/2 of every conservative argument is name calling....

trump does it every day!

If I hadn't just put her on ignore, I could fill a page with just Cecilie's pejoratives.

so you label an entire group on the actions of one person,,,

No, actually I quite carefully didn't. For an abortion thread, I think most of the posters here have been fairly restrained.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Don't interrupt.

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

Give me a link; I tried to find one with actual stats or facts, and couldn't.

According to Kathleen DeZeeuw, "I, having lived through rape, and also having raised a child 'conceived in rape,' feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape and incest. I feel that we're being used by pro-abortionists to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side."

The case against abortion of incest pregnancies is even stronger. Studies show that incest victims rarely ever voluntarily agree to an abortion.4 Instead of viewing the pregnancy as unwanted, the incest victim is more likely to see the pregnancy as a way out of the incestuous relationship because the birth of her child will expose the sexual activity. She is also likely to see in her pregnancy the hope of bearing a child with whom she can establish a true loving relationship, one far different than the exploitive relationship in which she has been trapped.

But while the incest victim may treasure her pregnancy because it offers her hope of release, and the hope of finding a nurturing love, her pregnancy is a threat to the exploiter. It is also a threat to the pathological secrecy which may envelop other members of the family who are afraid to acknowledge that the abuse is occurring. Because of this dual threat, the victim may be coerced into an unwanted abortion by both the abuser and other family members.

Thanks. That article is one I actually read. It is from the Elliott Institute (also known as afterabortion.org), whose position on abortion is, in their words, "our belief that proving how abortion hurts so many women is the key to ending the scourge of abortion."
It contained no statistics, either.
But I appreciate it.

Yes, it did. I was wrong though. This 0.13% includes rape AND incest (both are rape though and should be treated as such):

Abortions for both rape and incest totaled 0.13 percent of all abortions ― that’s one out of every 770.6

 

[caddo kid]

With the recent ruling in Alabama regarding abortion, and the eventual path towards SCOTUS to settle the issue, the obvious thing to do is to define what exactly the unborn is, something Roe vs. Wade shied away from doing. After all, the reason blacks were mistreated under the Constitution was because they were not identified as equals, they were 3/5 a human being.

There are but two possibilities from my vantage point.

1. They are a parasite, defined as an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism

2. Or they are a human being.

Which camp do you fall in?

citizenship by birth won't occur until a 'birth'

a citizen has no rights until 'birth'

'personhood' does not occur until 'birth'

a person is not a person until birth occurs

What are you missing ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Cecilie1200]

Given how hard that is, expecially when you're poor, I'd really rather people aren't forced to give birth to children they don't want or can't afford. Forcing poor women to have babies is ridiculous. The rich will just go to Canada.

Yanno, if you don't want to be sullied with the responsibility of a child, simply practice abstinence. If not that, birth control. Don't wait until it is developing in your womb to say "I want control of my body!"

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.

Now I'm dirty. Time for breakfast and a shower.

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.
Whoa! There are two equally responsible people involved in that scenario, and it's about time everyone started remembering that.
No more of this slut shaming women who find themselves pregnant after engaging in sex which is considered good sport for the men and only nasty for the women.
Nuh-uh.

"Whoa! There are two equally responsible people involved . . ." Yeah, but there's only one of them contemplating killing someone over it. I'll be happy to talk about how men who sleep around with people they don't like enough to marry are giant sluts . . . when that's the topic, and not just an attempt to divert from addressing the fact that WOMEN who do that are STUPID sluts, because THEY are the ones with the most to lose, and they know it, and they do it anyway.

So no more attempting to get a free pass by deflecting onto men.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Given how hard that is, expecially when you're poor, I'd really rather people aren't forced to give birth to children they don't want or can't afford. Forcing poor women to have babies is ridiculous. The rich will just go to Canada.

Yanno, if you don't want to be sullied with the responsibility of a child, simply practice abstinence. If not that, birth control. Don't wait until it is developing in your womb to say "I want control of my body!"

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.

Now I'm dirty. Time for breakfast and a shower.

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.
Whoa! There are two equally responsible people involved in that scenario, and it's about time everyone started remembering that.
No more of this slut shaming women who find themselves pregnant after engaging in sex which is considered good sport for the men and only nasty for the women.
Nuh-uh.

correct,, but only one of them can get pregnant and then go on to murder the child,,,

We need a "great minds think alike" rating.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Then from your vantage point a dolphin should have more rights than a severely brain damaged human being.

Only in the ocean. One of the reasons we have been so successful is our ability to have compassion. I just don't think that was given to us by some external force.

Also, those who are deemed mentally challenged by the state might some day be rounded up and treated like animals.

Those who are mentally challenged and who have no one to care or look after them are already treated like animals in many places.

The great part about the unborn is that you can't see them or hear them. In short, they have no voice.

Good luck with compassion. I suppose you could show pictures to generate compassion for them after the fact, but then, you would probably be censored by such entities as Facebook and shut down for right wing extremism.

Imagine, human worth based only upon another's compassion?

Very odd.

I suppose all I can do is cross my fingers and hope that those in power have compassion for me.

Nah the great part about the unborn in this country is that most have parents who already love them and are willing to do just about anything in their power to help them for the rest of their lives.

60 million plus aborted since Roe vs. Wade?

Sounds like they care more about other things..........

The number of live births are about triple that number. How many of those women went on to have other children later on in life?

I have to tell you honestly that if I found out my mother had aborted my sibling and then kept me because I just happened to show up at the right time of her life for her to "generously" decide that I could be considered a person, I would not for one minute ever believe she actually loved me as an individual person ever again.

Maybe that's just me.

 

[OldLady]

What is he interrupting precisely? A temper tantrum?

The FACT is, abortion for incest is quite rare, and when it does occur it is nearly always forced on the victim to protect the related predator.

Give me a link; I tried to find one with actual stats or facts, and couldn't.

According to Kathleen DeZeeuw, "I, having lived through rape, and also having raised a child 'conceived in rape,' feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape and incest. I feel that we're being used by pro-abortionists to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side."

The case against abortion of incest pregnancies is even stronger. Studies show that incest victims rarely ever voluntarily agree to an abortion.4 Instead of viewing the pregnancy as unwanted, the incest victim is more likely to see the pregnancy as a way out of the incestuous relationship because the birth of her child will expose the sexual activity. She is also likely to see in her pregnancy the hope of bearing a child with whom she can establish a true loving relationship, one far different than the exploitive relationship in which she has been trapped.

But while the incest victim may treasure her pregnancy because it offers her hope of release, and the hope of finding a nurturing love, her pregnancy is a threat to the exploiter. It is also a threat to the pathological secrecy which may envelop other members of the family who are afraid to acknowledge that the abuse is occurring. Because of this dual threat, the victim may be coerced into an unwanted abortion by both the abuser and other family members.

Thanks. That article is one I actually read. It is from the Elliott Institute (also known as afterabortion.org), whose position on abortion is, in their words, "our belief that proving how abortion hurts so many women is the key to ending the scourge of abortion."
It contained no statistics, either.
But I appreciate it.

Yes, it did. I was wrong though. This 0.13% includes rape AND incest (both are rape though and should be treated as such):

Abortions for both rape and incest totaled 0.13 percent of all abortions ― that’s one out of every 770.6

You and I are reading different articles. I wish you would provide the link.

 

[progressive hunter]

With the recent ruling in Alabama regarding abortion, and the eventual path towards SCOTUS to settle the issue, the obvious thing to do is to define what exactly the unborn is, something Roe vs. Wade shied away from doing. After all, the reason blacks were mistreated under the Constitution was because they were not identified as equals, they were 3/5 a human being.

There are but two possibilities from my vantage point.

1. They are a parasite, defined as an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism

2. Or they are a human being.

Which camp do you fall in?

citizenship by birth won't occur until a 'birth'

a citizen has no rights until 'birth'

'personhood' does not occur until 'birth'

a person is not a person until birth occurs

What are you missing ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

YOU ARE ONE SICK MOTHER FUCKER THAT THINKS A CHILD THE DAY BEFORE BIRTH IS ok TO KILL,,,

 

[Mr Natural]

YOU ARE ONE SICK MOTHER FUCKER THAT THINKS A CHILD THE DAY BEFORE BIRTH IS ok TO KILL,,,

Wow! All those caps! Somebody's pissed off!