The Reason for Poverty Among Blacks is Not Racism

[Lisa558]

All assholes have gone through what you go through. That's because you're assholes.

Now, as to why you're assholes may be interesting, it's for another thread.

I don’t know what that a-hole went through, since he’s on ignore, but as you point out, we ALL have shit to deal with, being treated like crap, etc.

 

[Lisa558]

But it was OK then because "EVEYONE WAS DOING IT."

That was sick then and excusing it today is just as sick.
But thanks for giving us the house racist point of view.

AGAIN.….it wasn't OK from our current perspective, but the mores of the time allowed for it. Regardless, what happened 200 years ago - or racism in general - has nothing to do with the fact that 25% of blacks live below the poverty line.

They could get out of poverty if they didn’t have babies out of wedlock and finished school. There’s nothing racist about that - study after study has shown the correlation between having a baby you can’t afford when you’re a unmarried girl and poverty.

You libs just scream Raaaaacist! at anyone who refuses to blame racism for poor outcomes, rather than personal choice. You’re not helping black people by making them believe that they are living in poverty because WHITE PEOPLE‘S FAULT!! instead of showing the them proven way out: no babies before marriage, finish high school, and acquire some sort of post-high school job training.

 

[Lisa558]

If racism is the cause for poverty, how come 75% of blacks moved beyond it?

 

[Meathead]

I don’t know what that a-hole went through, since he’s on ignore, but as you point out, we ALL have shit to deal with, being treated like crap, etc.

I'm pretty sure he's got me on ignore too. Still, I see his posts and comment on him being an asshole with a chip on his shoulder.

 

[Dadoalex]

When did I say it was okay then? What I said is that it was acceptable to the people of that time.

They used to have public hangings for a man simply stealing a horse. We don't use horses for travel any longer, but we can't have a public hanging for stealing a car. It's simply not acceptable today but was back then. Did you ever see the classic movie Cool Hand Luke? That's what prisons used to be like. Again, acceptable back then, but not acceptable today.

In that post.
How is acceptable, not OK?
Try a little English today.

Geez. You are so deep in denial you can't even understand the words you write.

 

[Meathead]

In that post.
How is acceptable, not OK?
Try a little English today.

Geez. You are so deep in denial you can't even understand the words you write.

There was a time slavery was "acceptable". Was it OK too?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In that post.
How is acceptable, not OK?
Try a little English today.

Geez. You are so deep in denial you can't even understand the words you write.

Are you mentally retarded or something? Why are leftists so foreign to the English language? One more time:

Slavery was acceptable TO THE PEOPLE BACK THEN. It doesn't mean it's okay with us in 2022.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

"Yep, because there are about five times as many of us as you. The appropriate question is, do whites commit five times more crimes than blacks do?"

This is a ridiculous opinion and one we see far too many times argued. So if blacks and whites each kill 1,000 people blacks have a bigger problem because whites have to kill 5,000 people for it to be considered the same.

No, what it points to is you are five times more likely to be murdered by a black than a white. You are five times more likely to be robbed by a black than a white.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Blacks have lived at more than double the white poverty rate for the last 60 years. If racism doesn't exist whites and blacks should have the same rates of poverty. Now shut the fuck up.

But it certainly can't be because blacks are more likely to make bad financial decisions in their life, can it? Blacks never do that. It must be racism that's responsible.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There have been whites who have beaten cops and lived. There have been blacks who have complied with cops and died.

Any officer that killed a citizen that complied with them are held to criminal standards.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Earning money wasn't part of the question, it was about acquiring money in ways other than earning it.

The point is, if the family you're born into isn't poor than you have a higher likelihood of not ending up being poor yourself, because you will learn (hopefully) what is needed in order to escape a descent into poverty.

Starting out with money is always preferable to starting without money and trying to obtain it. And it's easier.

What kind of money are you talking about? Enough to make a living, enough to have to live in mom's basement, enough to be considered one in the top 10%

Poverty is a condition of having no or not enough money. The solution to poverty is getting money. The way to get money is to get a job and make money.

It's like I said earlier on in the discussion. I always heed to my fathers words when I was a child. "Son, making money is easy. An idiot can make money. But money is hard to keep!"

If you can't keep the money you make, you can never make enough. It seems the problem is not making money, but what you do with the money you make regardless of how much that is.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I

Me too. The only time I was pulled over was because I made an illegal U turn. I didn’t give the cop attitude, claim he has no right to see my driver’s license when he asked, and otherwise treated the cop as though he was the bad guy. I just remained polite and respectful.

I used to be an inveterate speeder. I got one or two tickets a year. I always behaved respectfully towards the cop not only because it’s the smart thing to do, but because he was just doing his job.

 

[katsteve2012]

Joe, the country gave Ali segregation and racism. That's why he refused to fight.

He did "fight" for America in the Olympics and brought home a gold medal, which he tossed into the Ohio River, because even though he stood on the top pedestal to receive the medal, when he returned home to Louisville, Kentucky, he still could not even be served a sandwich in a local diner.

 

[IM2]

Point to a single untruth I've ever written. I'll wait. . .

I know you want to believe that the crap you write about blacks is true, but I happen to be black and know they are not.

Well, then Paul was kind of an idiot for saying that.

I agree, the amount of force used against Floyd WAS excessive. Taking him into custody was not. He passed a fake $20. He was stoned out of his mind on fentanyl and driving an SUV. And i'd have the exact same position if he were a white guy who was drunk and trying to drive off in an SUV.

White victims don't get treated like saints. In fact, MOST white people who are killed by police are usually treated like they had it coming. The Damond case was an exception, because that cop was so completely out of line. He literally shot an unarmed woman who was asking for help. It didn't help that Noor was fast-tracked through his training and police psychiatrists had serious concerns about his mental stability before the incident.

Nobody made a big deal about Tony Timpa, a white schizophrenic man who suffocated while police were restraining him.

Killing of Tony Timpa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nobody made a big deal about Daniel Shaver, an unarmed white man who was shot by police while he was on his knees in a hotel hallway.

Shooting of Daniel Shaver - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And I'm going to go one further. The police make 10 million arrests and 40 million traffic stops a year. Of those, only 1000 end up in lethal force being used. A terrible number, but again, we live in a gun happy society. Of those, most are justified. The person in question pulled a gun or a knife.

So out of 50 million police encounters, every year, you have maybe a handful where the police officer was out of line? Well, you all got the response you wanted, the cops stopped responding at all, and crime rates have shot up. Happy now? I'm not.

Blacks have been getting murdered like this by police since policing was started. And police have gotten away with it. What people fail to understand is that protests against police brutality is a protest against all police brutality and killings. Whites do not get killed by police at 3 times the rate of their population and blacks are at least 3 times more likely to get shot than whites. These are convenient facts you leave out of this conversation. Police did not have to quit responding, they did so because they were mad that people are holding them to account.

The 2019 Global Burden of Diseases, Injuries, and Risk Factors Study published in The Lancet estimated that from 1980-2018, a span of 38 years, that police in the United States killed 30,800 people. During the same period, the study estimated that police killed 293,000 people worldwide. The study found that despite the U.S. having only 4 percent of the global population, American law enforcement was responsible for more than 13 percent of all police killings on planet earth.

"The burden of police violence fatalities in the USA is known to fall disproportionately on Black, Indigenous, and Hispanic populations. Recent studies suggest that over the life course, about one in every 1000 Black men are killed by the police in the USA, making them 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than White men. Black women are about 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are White women. Systemic and direct racism, manifested in laws and policies as well as personal implicit biases, result in Black, Indigenous, and Hispanic Americans being the targets of police violence."

Jordan Woods did a 10-year study of police stops, and it is considered one of the most in-depth studies on this issue. The findings were published in 2019 and are available at the Michigan Law Review repository website. Here are his words:

"To summarize, the findings do not support the dominant danger narrative surrounding routine traffic stops. Based on a conservative estimate, I found that the rate for a felonious killing of an officer during a routine traffic stop for a traffic violation was only 1 in every 6.5 million stops. The rate for an assault that results in serious injury to an officer was only 1 in every 361,111 stops. Finally, the rate for an assault (whether it results in officer injury or not) was only 1 in every 6,959 stops. Less conservative estimates suggest that these rates may be much lower. In addition, the vast majority (over 98%) of the evaluated cases in the study resulted in no or minor injuries to the officers. Further, only a very small percentage of cases (about 3%) involved violence against officers in which a gun or knife was used or found at the scene, and the overwhelming majority of those cases resulted in no or minor injuries to an officer. Less than 1% of the evaluated cases involved guns or knives and resulted in serious injury to or the felonious killing of an officer."

The findings speak for themselves. The actual threat level to police appears to be less than the authority to kill police are given.

The quote below is written by members of the National Conference of Black Lawyers, the International Association of Democratic Lawyers, and the National Lawyers Guild as part of the Report of the International Commission of Inquiry on Systemic Racist Police Violence against People of African Descent in the U.S., on page 16:

"The Commissioners find a prima facie case of Crimes against Humanity warranting an investigation by the International Criminal Court (ICC). The crimes under the Rome Statute include: Murder, Severe Deprivation of Physical Liberty, Torture, Persecution of people of African descent, and other Inhumane Acts, which occurred in the context of a widespread or systematic attack directed against the civilian population of Black people in the U.S."

Jordan B. Woods, Policing, Danger Narratives, and Routine Traffic Stops, 117 MICH. L. REV. 635 (2019)."Policing, Danger Narratives, and Routine Traffic Stops" by Jordan Blair Woods

GBD 2019 Police Violence US Subnational Collaborators, Fatal police violence by race and state in the USA, 1980–2019: a network meta-regression, The Lancet , VOLUME 398, ISSUE 10307, P1239-1255, OCTOBER 02, 2021, DEFINE_ME

National Conference of Black Lawyers, the International Association of Democratic Lawyers, and the National Lawyers Guild, Report of the International Commission of Inquiry on Systemic Racist Police Violence against People of African Descent in the U.S. pg. 16, https://inquirycommission.org/website/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Commission-Report-15-April.pdf

 

[IM2]

Any officer that killed a citizen that complied with them are held to criminal standards.

No they aren't. Ask Philando Castille.

 

[IM2]

White have a bunch of whites trying to tell blacks that what we see is not so even as they have never seen it.

 

[Meathead]

White have a bunch of whites trying to tell blacks that what we see is not so even as they have never seen it.

Your English is like your math. Now figure out why you're a failure.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No they aren't. Ask Philando Castille.

I didn't know who he was so I looked it up. As I stated earlier, the officer was held responsible, charged, but found not guilty by a jury of his peers. One juror gave this statement to the media:

What we were looking at was some pretty obscure things to a lot of people, like culpable negligence. You think you might know what it means: It's negligent, but maybe pretty bad negligence. Well, it's gross negligence with an element of recklessness ... We had the law in front of us so we could break it down.

It just came down to us not being able to see what was going on in the car. Some of us were saying that there was some recklessness there, but that didn't stick because we didn't know what escalated the situation: was he really seeing a gun? We felt [Yanez] was an honest guy ... and in the end, we had to go on his word, and that's what it came down to.[89]

I find it very difficult to believe a police officer would shoot a motorist for no reason at all; jeopardizing his career, violence, and of course his job which he was fired from regardless of the verdict. In our system of justice an accused is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around the way liberals would like to see in this country. If you know a police officer feels threatened by your actions, the best thing you can do is simply freeze which apparently this guy didn't do.

And here is something else for you to know:

In fact, as of July 9, whites were 54 percent of the 440 police shooting victims this year whose race was known, blacks were 28 percent and Hispanics were 18 percent, according to The Washington Post’s ongoing database of fatal police shootings. Those ratios are similar to last year’s tally, in which whites made up 50 percent of the 987 fatal police shootings, and blacks, 26 percent. (The vast majority of those police homicide victims were armed or otherwise threatening the officer.) But Butterfield could be forgiven his error, given the virtually exclusive media focus on black victims of police officers.

Police Shootings and Race

Does the distribution of police victims confirm the Black Lives Matter allegation that policing is biased? That depends on the assessing of police actions.

www.manhattan-institute.org

 

[JoeB131]

Blacks have been getting murdered like this by police since policing was started. And police have gotten away with it. What people fail to understand is that protests against police brutality is a protest against all police brutality and killings. Whites do not get killed by police at 3 times the rate of their population and blacks are at least 3 times more likely to get shot than whites. These are convenient facts you leave out of this conversation. Police did not have to quit responding, they did so because they were mad that people are holding them to account.

I'm going to give you a bit of preamble here, because I see both sides of this. I have been on speaking terms with my brother for five years because he is friends with a police officer who was involved in a high profile shooting incident here in Chicago. He didn't like that I felt this officer should have been held to account (and was.) On the upside, I don't have to talk to his crazy wife, either. Conversely, a girl I graduated from Grammar School with lost her son-in-law because he was struck by a train when following up on a shooting report because some knucklehead decided to start firing a gun he found in a railroad yard.

So, I completely understand WHY cops aren't being proactive anymore. The officer who went to prison probably wasn't a racist (I was surprised to find out his sister is married to a black man), he just panicked in a stressful situation. For that, he lost his job, went to prison, and probably won't have much for a professional career. So I can imagine a cop, who is maybe a year away from his pension, and he hears about an incident where someone is robbing a store or trying to break into a truck, you think he's going to rush out to get in the middle of that? Nope. Better to hang back, write up a report, and be done with it.

Because, frankly, the police are under no legal requirement to protect your life (Warren v. District of Columbia, Lozito v. NYC). Why risk your own finances and freedom?

The 2019 Global Burden of Diseases, Injuries, and Risk Factors Study published in The Lancet estimated that from 1980-2018, a span of 38 years, that police in the United States killed 30,800 people. During the same period, the study estimated that police killed 293,000 people worldwide. The study found that despite the U.S. having only 4 percent of the global population, American law enforcement was responsible for more than 13 percent of all police killings on planet earth.

Okay, do you really think that the Chinese police are being forthcoming on how many people they kill? Or Russia? Or any of the other countries in the third world?

Now, I'll agree, that our police do use lethal force more often than their counterparts in other developed countries. Then again, police in other developed countries aren't dealing with 300 million guns on the streets, including semi-automatic weapons. They aren't dealing with dangerous, unmedicated schizophrenics and drug addicts, either. So in many ways, the police are dealing with the other things we refuse to fix in this country. And, yes, racism is one of those things. So is poverty.

"The burden of police violence fatalities in the USA is known to fall disproportionately on Black, Indigenous, and Hispanic populations. Recent studies suggest that over the life course, about one in every 1000 Black men are killed by the police in the USA, making them 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than White men. Black women are about 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are White women. Systemic and direct racism, manifested in laws and policies as well as personal implicit biases, result in Black, Indigenous, and Hispanic Americans being the targets of police violence."

I am going to call shenanigans on this claim. 1 in 1000? African Americans make up 13% of the population. - that would mean 42 million people. Taking out females (21 million) 1 in 1000 is 21,000. not sure what you are considering a "life course" exactly... but let's say 60 years. Okay, then you MIGHT get to 350 a year.

The actual numbers are less.

 

[Paul Essien]

JoeB131
Do you have any evidence that Ms. Damond was anything other than a model citizen?

Yes. The system of white supremacy.

She was potrayed as an angel. And the way the union put up a half hearted defense. The only time the union will stand up for a black officer is when he kills or injures someone black.

JoeB131
Again, I don't remember 9 minutes of silence for her.

Well fight for her to get 9 minutes of silence. Get out their and GRIND. The reason why practically everyone in the USA knos the name George Floyds name is because we fought for his name to be heard.

If all ppl are really suffering from police brutality then wouldn’t you think that whites should be complaining about the police ? Rather than complaining about blks complaining about the police ?

End of the day white people will support harsher police force if they’ll hurt blacks even if they could potentially be used against whites too.

It’s an example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

JoeB131
Except she wasn't moving her hand towards her wallet.

Neighbours said that before the gunfire they heard what sounded like Damond banging on the police car. Presumably she was trying to get their attention.

And notice something else ? There was n video evidence.

To compare: In Minneapolis in 2015 Jamar Clark, an unarmed Black man, was shot in the head by a White police officer and died. Witnesses said Clark was on the ground in handcuffs. Police said Clark was reaching for an officer’s gun. The state police looked into it and agreed with the city police. The officers involved were not charged with a crime.

JoeB131
She just knocked on their window, and while the white cop who was with Noor was startled, he had the good sense NOT to shoot blindly.

This was essentially a seminal case involving black police officers who shoot and kill a white suspect of which all future case will be judged.

All black law enforcement members will be placed in an unfortunately inverted position of whether to shoot and live the balance of your life or some portion of it in prison, or in the alternative, refrain from shooting and be counted amongst those officers already tallied or calculated within the statistics. Take your pick, but do it quickly.

JoeB131
No, George Floyd was killed because he resisted arrest, and was high as a kite on fentanyl.

It doesn't matter if black people are obeying the law or complying.



JoeB131
Here's the thing. We are surprised when this happens because white kids usually DON'T go on shooting sprees. As opposed to when a gangbanger does a drive by and they have an extensive criminal record and were treated leniently by the Criminal Justice system not because they were reformed, but because we don't have enough room in the jails. Nobody has been tougher on the topic of gun control than I've been... but the gun fetishists can rightly point out that while 50% of murders are committed by black men, only a handful happen at the hands of white mass shooters.

JoeB131
Americans don't care what the rest of the world thinks. The reason Trump came as close as he did to winning a second term is because people were terrified BLM and Antifa would stop by and burn their house down.

This is getting sillier

JoeB131
Yeah, but if you are screaming racism at every petty offense and imagined slight you kind of lose credibility Kind of like the Boy Who Cried Wolf. There's notion of picking your battles wisely.

White America have always denied racism even back in the 1960's. When you look Gallup polls bk then most white American though MLK was a troublemaker and black had just as good chance in getting the job and education and housing.

As for me "screaming" ? White people anger and screaming is pretty damn transparent to black People. I can fee yours and Lisa558 and monkrules anger

White emotion and screaming is so justified by the culture that whites don't recognize it as emotion. Their arguments they use time and time again are not seen by them as emotional because they think that it is justified and reasonable. "My ancestors never owned any slaves!" seems to them like a 'rational' and 'obvious' (and 'creative') refutation of white supremacy.

JoeB131
Here's the thing. I'm a white, straight male. I try to do the right thing and stand for fairness

If you srated talking like this

"The truth is blacks imagine little. Discrimination in hiring, housing and education has been well documented. The government should take forceful action to end it as it goes against the American value of equal opportunity for all regardless of race."

I'd take your point

But yet almost no white person talks like that

At best some whites will admit to discrimination but then discount its effects. Or they will say they believe in equality of opportunity but then find reasons to oppose any policy with the teeth to achieve it.

Joe fox
but frankly, if you are going to scream at me

Once again. I'm not screaming. I'm disagreeing with you.

JoeB131
because I don't think that we should demonize cops or whatever,

No I like cops. What I don't like is these white supremacist cop who are all over law enforcement and let's be clear on something else. This "He was resisting arrest" argument that many whites use to justify blk ppl getting killed by police

The police know how to disarm ppl when they are white, no matter how agresssive they are. Their guns don't seem to work when they are white







Where as even when blk ppl are handcuffed and not resisting



JoeB131
I'm kind of out. It isn't a good thing when you try to help people and they STILL resent you for whatever anger issues they have.
.
Black American have always tried to do this the nice way. We have marched. We have sang. Just to eat a lunch counter. Just to go to school

We have written films. There are studies and survey about racism. We have written books about racism and whites too. MLK said "Wanna a world were blk boys and white girls can hold hands" and whites killed him

Fast forward to today

When blk ppl in the NFL (Colin Kapernick) complained at police brutality and racism, he took a knee.

What could have been more politically correct, less angry, more friendly to white ppls tender sensitivities than taken a knee ? There was no riots. No uprisings.

But did you see anyone say "O since you negroes asked so politely. We're gonna have legislation. Yes !! Legislation today !! We are going to have the FBI set up a taskforce to round up all the racists who kill blk ppl. Were gonna have laws to put ppl, who call the police on blk ppl, just 4 being blk, in jail"

But white supremacist don't understand that language and you have to speak the language of the white man and the white man only understands violence. So you have to talk in a way that he understands. So we have to burn sh*t,, destroy sh*t, even kill.

Even a RAT, if you corner that rat ? It'll jump up and bite ya ass. Every creature will defend its self from mistreatment
.