The So-And-So Vote

[NightFox]

I actually liked Walter E. Williams suggestion that we base votes on taxes paid. The more tax you pay the more votes you get. That's how corporations are run everyday. The biggest stockholders get the most votes in the boardroom.

IMHO Wouldn't achieve the desired result; our current system is largely based on politicians buying votes with other peoples money and political influence, as much as I admire Dr. Williams his suggestion would likely result in ever more tax dollars and political influence being directed at the upper echelons of the economic ladder pursuant to their increased voting leverage.

As long as Washington D.C. is for sale and real economic consequences can be papered over with fiat currency and regulatory manipulation the situation will remain as it is.

 

[TNHarley]

We felt the need to give every dumbass the right to vote... While it goes against the very definition of a Republic, the point stands...

Yep
The Founders had it right, only those who had skin in the game could vote.

WHITE skin. Gotta give it to those founders, right?

Every American has "skin in the game" and wanting to restrict the right to vote to people who can PAY to do it, is fucked up beyond belief.

Homeless people have the right to vote. I hope that annoys the shit out of ya'll.

Black people and women who owned property were able to vote.
No people who don't pay taxes do not have skin in the game.
And whether you like it or not the Founders set things up to help get rid of slavery and to have the slave states not have power to rule over the rest of the states who abolished slavery.

That's not how the founders set it up. That's the system you were touting, the one the founders set up where only white landowning males could vote.

Yes, people who don't pay taxes are still affected by decisions made by their representatives. It's beyond ludicrous to claim otherwise. Oh, and everyone pays taxes. Some people, like military retirees and poor people don't pay Federal income taxes. They still pay taxes.

No they didn't lol. AGAIN, BLACK people voted when only property owners could vote. Try again?
Non citizens pay sales tax. Try again?

 

[peach174]

We felt the need to give every dumbass the right to vote... While it goes against the very definition of a Republic, the point stands...

Yep
The Founders had it right, only those who had skin in the game could vote.

WHITE skin. Gotta give it to those founders, right?

Every American has "skin in the game" and wanting to restrict the right to vote to people who can PAY to do it, is fucked up beyond belief.

Homeless people have the right to vote. I hope that annoys the shit out of ya'll.

Black people voted when only people that voted had "skin in the game" try your racist fallacy somewhere else.

You'll have to try that one again in English, Skeeter.

No, Americans don't have "skin in the game" when they don't contribute. They are just along for the ride.

Yes, they still do. Policy decisions still affect their lives whether they've paid Federal taxes or not. Retired military personnel don't pay Federal income taxes...you going to deny them the right to vote?

Im not saying we should strip the right away from people, I am saying it never should have changed.

So only white, landowning males could vote. Yeah, I'm sure you'd like it to still be that way.


GOP: Why can't we attract minority voters?

Any who owned property could vote back then, that included blacks and women.

This should be more about people who do vote in this day and age should be well informed on the issues.
Today too many are just voting for the parties and not the issues.

 

[TNHarley]

We felt the need to give every dumbass the right to vote... While it goes against the very definition of a Republic, the point stands...

Yep
The Founders had it right, only those who had skin in the game could vote.

WHITE skin. Gotta give it to those founders, right?

Every American has "skin in the game" and wanting to restrict the right to vote to people who can PAY to do it, is fucked up beyond belief.

Homeless people have the right to vote. I hope that annoys the shit out of ya'll.

Black people voted when only people that voted had "skin in the game" try your racist fallacy somewhere else.
No, Americans don't have "skin in the game" when they don't contribute. They are just along for the ride.
Im not saying we should strip the right away from people, I am saying it never should have changed.

Only property owners should be able to vote? Interesting.

From what I can tell from reading on here, it is those that vote for the Republicans who seem to have struggled the most for the past 10 to 12 years or so.

Those on the right seem to be those that have lost the most; lost their jobs, their savings and in most importantly, they lost their properties.

Which without a property, means they couldnt vote.

You sure this is a good idea?

On another topic. Isnt having just property owners voting the exact thing tho OP was so concerned about; lumping voters into catagories?

Another person that thinks I belong to a political party lol

 

[Wildman]

Are you going to be the judge of what those are?

NO!!!! that is my job.

 

[hadit]

I get so tired of hearing about how a candidate "can't win the [fill in blank] vote!" That somehow, we all belong to a certain voting bloc and we simply lack the intelligence to vote differently from the rest of our sheep herd. It seems to be primarily based on whatever said candidate "is going to do for" the certain group. When did we become a nation that plays favorites according to groups? I really though that was what Civil Rights was all about... equality for all. Yet now, apparently you have to put one group's interests above all others in order to win their collective vote. So not only do the politicians have a discriminatory mind set, the entire demographic of the group does as well.

It highlights the REAL problem in American politics today, and frankly, in modern history. Each election, regardless of who we are or who we support, we go to the polls and vote for a politician who promises to use the power of government in order to "do something for us!" This means, expanding government, spending more tax dollars, passing more legislation, growing the Federal leviathan. And it's never-ending. We just keep repeating this cycle after cycle, year after year. It's no wonder we find ourselves in debt up to our eyeballs.

At some point, we are going to have to face reality and understand that we can't continue doing this. Instead of looking at what a candidate is going to "do for us" we are going to have to consider what the candidate can do to make our country better. That might mean NOT doing stuff for us. It most certainly will have to mean not doing things for certain groups just to win their votes. It definitely means not doing stuff for special interests and big money donors. We've got to break this habit we're in and come back to reality at some point or we're going to bankrupt our nation trying to appease all the different demographics.

We hear a lot of talk about greed but this is the epitome of greed, our very nature and how we base our votes. We have become conditioned to voting for our own personal interests over the interests of our nation and that needs to change. We need to realize the problem before we can fix it and unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people are prepared to realize the problem.

I remember a townhall type debate during the 92 campaign where a citizen asked the candidates to think of the people as their children and what they would then do for the people. The fact that none of the candidates reframed the question as, "I will not be your daddy, I will be your president" was telling.

 

[Wildman]

Who's to blame? It's not a matter of finding blame, it's a matter of thought process.

AND.., responsibility, something libertards seriously lack!!

 

[NightFox]

Another person that thinks I belong to a political party lol

Nothing to be concerned about as long as you belong to the right political PARTY........

 

[Seawytch]

We felt the need to give every dumbass the right to vote... While it goes against the very definition of a Republic, the point stands...

Yep
The Founders had it right, only those who had skin in the game could vote.

WHITE skin. Gotta give it to those founders, right?

Every American has "skin in the game" and wanting to restrict the right to vote to people who can PAY to do it, is fucked up beyond belief.

Homeless people have the right to vote. I hope that annoys the shit out of ya'll.

Black people voted when only people that voted had "skin in the game" try your racist fallacy somewhere else.

You'll have to try that one again in English, Skeeter.

No, Americans don't have "skin in the game" when they don't contribute. They are just along for the ride.

Yes, they still do. Policy decisions still affect their lives whether they've paid Federal taxes or not. Retired military personnel don't pay Federal income taxes...you going to deny them the right to vote?

Im not saying we should strip the right away from people, I am saying it never should have changed.

So only white, landowning males could vote. Yeah, I'm sure you'd like it to still be that way.


GOP: Why can't we attract minority voters?

Any who owned property could vote back then, that included blacks and women.

This should be more about people who do vote in this day and age should be well informed on the issues.
Today too many are just voting for the parties and not the issues.

No, "back then" blacks and women could not vote whether they owned property or not. How many blacks or women actually owned property at the founding of our nation? Any idea? Even if it was one of each, they still could not vote.

Now let's play your property owning game and apply it to everyone. Renters don't get to vote in ya'll crazy little world? What about people whose property is "owned" by a corporation...do they get to vote or just the corporation? Who in the corporation gets to vote for them?

How about we keep doing it the way we have been doing it. Every US citizen has the right to vote. (and get rid of the restrictions that keeps former felons from votingin some states too, shall we?)

 

[Seawytch]

We felt the need to give every dumbass the right to vote... While it goes against the very definition of a Republic, the point stands...

Yep
The Founders had it right, only those who had skin in the game could vote.

WHITE skin. Gotta give it to those founders, right?

Every American has "skin in the game" and wanting to restrict the right to vote to people who can PAY to do it, is fucked up beyond belief.

Homeless people have the right to vote. I hope that annoys the shit out of ya'll.

Black people voted when only people that voted had "skin in the game" try your racist fallacy somewhere else.

You'll have to try that one again in English, Skeeter.

No, Americans don't have "skin in the game" when they don't contribute. They are just along for the ride.

Yes, they still do. Policy decisions still affect their lives whether they've paid Federal taxes or not. Retired military personnel don't pay Federal income taxes...you going to deny them the right to vote?

Im not saying we should strip the right away from people, I am saying it never should have changed.

So only white, landowning males could vote. Yeah, I'm sure you'd like it to still be that way.


GOP: Why can't we attract minority voters?

Yea, only white people own land. Racist fuck

At the founding only WHITE land owning MALES could vote.

 

[Boss]

I actually liked Walter E. Williams suggestion that we base votes on taxes paid. The more tax you pay the more votes you get. That's how corporations are run everyday. The biggest stockholders get the most votes in the boardroom.

IMHO Wouldn't achieve the desired result; our current system is largely based on politicians buying votes with other peoples money and political influence, as much as I admire Dr. Williams his suggestion would likely result in ever more tax dollars and political influence being directed at the upper echelons of the economic ladder pursuant to their increased voting leverage.

As long as Washington D.C. is for sale and real economic consequences can be papered over with fiat currency and regulatory manipulation the situation will remain as it is.

I disagree. First of all, there wouldn't be any more problem with people not wanting to pay their taxes. Money already influences politics... can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. At least with this we know the people who have the most money in the kitty get the most influence on policy.

I'm not seriously promoting Williams' idea, but I think he makes a great point. Again, it is how every major corporation in America is run.

 

[TNHarley]

Yep
The Founders had it right, only those who had skin in the game could vote.

WHITE skin. Gotta give it to those founders, right?

Every American has "skin in the game" and wanting to restrict the right to vote to people who can PAY to do it, is fucked up beyond belief.

Homeless people have the right to vote. I hope that annoys the shit out of ya'll.

Black people voted when only people that voted had "skin in the game" try your racist fallacy somewhere else.

You'll have to try that one again in English, Skeeter.

No, Americans don't have "skin in the game" when they don't contribute. They are just along for the ride.

Yes, they still do. Policy decisions still affect their lives whether they've paid Federal taxes or not. Retired military personnel don't pay Federal income taxes...you going to deny them the right to vote?

Im not saying we should strip the right away from people, I am saying it never should have changed.

So only white, landowning males could vote. Yeah, I'm sure you'd like it to still be that way.


GOP: Why can't we attract minority voters?

Any who owned property could vote back then, that included blacks and women.

This should be more about people who do vote in this day and age should be well informed on the issues.
Today too many are just voting for the parties and not the issues.

No, "back then" blacks and women could not vote whether they owned property or not. How many blacks or women actually owned property at the founding of our nation? Any idea? Even if it was one of each, they still could not vote.

Now let's play your property owning game and apply it to everyone. Renters don't get to vote in ya'll crazy little world? What about people whose property is "owned" by a corporation...do they get to vote or just the corporation? Who in the corporation gets to vote for them?

How about we keep doing it the way we have been doing it. Every US citizen has the right to vote. (and get rid of the restrictions that keeps former felons from votingin some states too, shall we?)

http://votingrights.news21.com/static/interactives/votinghist/timeline.pdf

 

[Boss]

At the founding only WHITE land owning MALES could vote.

At the founding, only white people were citizens. Black slaves were equal to farm animals.

 

[peach174]

Yep
The Founders had it right, only those who had skin in the game could vote.

WHITE skin. Gotta give it to those founders, right?

Every American has "skin in the game" and wanting to restrict the right to vote to people who can PAY to do it, is fucked up beyond belief.

Homeless people have the right to vote. I hope that annoys the shit out of ya'll.

Black people voted when only people that voted had "skin in the game" try your racist fallacy somewhere else.

You'll have to try that one again in English, Skeeter.

No, Americans don't have "skin in the game" when they don't contribute. They are just along for the ride.

Yes, they still do. Policy decisions still affect their lives whether they've paid Federal taxes or not. Retired military personnel don't pay Federal income taxes...you going to deny them the right to vote?

Im not saying we should strip the right away from people, I am saying it never should have changed.

So only white, landowning males could vote. Yeah, I'm sure you'd like it to still be that way.


GOP: Why can't we attract minority voters?

Any who owned property could vote back then, that included blacks and women.

This should be more about people who do vote in this day and age should be well informed on the issues.
Today too many are just voting for the parties and not the issues.

No, "back then" blacks and women could not vote whether they owned property or not. How many blacks or women actually owned property at the founding of our nation? Any idea? Even if it was one of each, they still could not vote.

Now let's play your property owning game and apply it to everyone. Renters don't get to vote in ya'll crazy little world? What about people whose property is "owned" by a corporation...do they get to vote or just the corporation? Who in the corporation gets to vote for them?

How about we keep doing it the way we have been doing it. Every US citizen has the right to vote. (and get rid of the restrictions that keeps former felons from votingin some states too, shall we?)

Yes they could.
Even though at the time it was few for both they did want all who owned property to vote.
Read up on the history of that sometime.Especially the part when slavery was abolished and they made sure more blacks owned property in order for that to happen.
.

 

[NightFox]

I actually liked Walter E. Williams suggestion that we base votes on taxes paid. The more tax you pay the more votes you get. That's how corporations are run everyday. The biggest stockholders get the most votes in the boardroom.

IMHO Wouldn't achieve the desired result; our current system is largely based on politicians buying votes with other peoples money and political influence, as much as I admire Dr. Williams his suggestion would likely result in ever more tax dollars and political influence being directed at the upper echelons of the economic ladder pursuant to their increased voting leverage.

As long as Washington D.C. is for sale and real economic consequences can be papered over with fiat currency and regulatory manipulation the situation will remain as it is.

I disagree. First of all, there wouldn't be any more problem with people not wanting to pay their taxes.

Well except for people of modest means that would have no hope of ever having enough leverage to effect political outcomes in any significant way. The ultra rich would simply be buying influence directly out in the open using their tax dollars and the average citizen could never hope to compete with them on that playing field.

Money already influences politics... can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. At least with this we know the people who have the most money in the kitty get the most influence on policy.

That's already the case IMHO your proposal wouldn't change that at all, it would simply institutionalize it.

I'm not seriously promoting Williams' idea, but I think he makes a great point. Again, it is how every major corporation in America is run.

You're correct of course, that is how corporations are run; however the objectives of corporations are not the same as the (desired) objectives of government, corporations (generally speaking) are engaged in the pursuit of profit, governments on the other hand are instituted to protect the life, liberty and property of the citizenry.

 

[Seawytch]

At the founding only WHITE land owning MALES could vote.

At the founding, only white people were citizens. Black slaves were equal to farm animals.

Reiterating my point. Only white males could vote.

 

[Boss]

Well except for people of modest means that would have no hope of ever having enough leverage to effect political outcomes in any significant way. The ultra rich would simply be buying influence directly out in the open using their tax dollars and the average citizen could never hope to compete with them on that playing field.

Well, I guess you'd need more fair taxation? Why do people of modest means need to be influencing political outcome more than people who are putting the money up? Isn't that how we ended up in such a mess today?

 

[Boss]

You're correct of course, that is how corporations are run; however the objectives of corporations are not the same as the (desired) objectives of government, corporations (generally speaking) are engaged in the pursuit of profit, governments on the other hand are instituted to protect the life, liberty and property of the citizenry.

Is that what you think government is doing when they take your health care choices away and tell you how things are going to be from now on? When they pass massive regulations and mandates driving business out of the country and killing your jobs? When they continue to grab more and more of the fruits of your labor to pay for freebies they dole out to the dependent class in order to get their votes?

No! The more GOVERNMENT you have, the less FREEDOM you get.

 

[hadit]

I actually liked Walter E. Williams suggestion that we base votes on taxes paid. The more tax you pay the more votes you get. That's how corporations are run everyday. The biggest stockholders get the most votes in the boardroom.

IMHO Wouldn't achieve the desired result; our current system is largely based on politicians buying votes with other peoples money and political influence, as much as I admire Dr. Williams his suggestion would likely result in ever more tax dollars and political influence being directed at the upper echelons of the economic ladder pursuant to their increased voting leverage.

As long as Washington D.C. is for sale and real economic consequences can be papered over with fiat currency and regulatory manipulation the situation will remain as it is.

I disagree. First of all, there wouldn't be any more problem with people not wanting to pay their taxes. Money already influences politics... can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. At least with this we know the people who have the most money in the kitty get the most influence on policy.

I'm not seriously promoting Williams' idea, but I think he makes a great point. Again, it is how every major corporation in America is run.

One result would be, instead of the wealthy hiding their wealth from the IRS, they would be pouring it into the treasury to enhance their voting power. Bernie would be ecstatic at all the new revenue.

 

[Rustic]

We are from the federal government and we are here to help...