The South Carolina incident & enabling

[Esmeralda]

Schools all over the country and the world allow students to have cell/mobile phones with them, just turned off and not used during school hours. I know this because I have 30 years of experience with education in the US and internationally. They have a right to have a cell phone in their backpack, on their person, or in their locker;they just can't use it in school. If you tell them no cell phones, you can tell them no this or that or any other private property. It is not a physically harmful item, like a knife or gun or drug. They have a right to have it with them.

So "lots of schools allow cell phones" is your argument that it's a right? Entirely untrue. I'm 40 years old, I went to school in the 1980's. Do you know what I did if I needed to contact my mother? I went to the principal's office and had them place a call.

You are a true Leftist, thinking "rights" can be drawn out of thin air. Hilarious!

No,this has nothing to do with politics. What I'm thinking is based on what I have seen, all over the world. Children from grade school though high school having cell phones; their parents want them to have them so they can be contacted. It works fine except for the few who break the rules and don't turn t hem off. You don't punish the entire student body for the behavior of a few students.

So they don't have a right to a cell phone is what you're saying....they just SHOULD have one?

Somehow my generation survived without cell phones. We also had NO problem getting in contact with parents when necessary. Your argument fails on every level.

Your generation survived without a lot of the things kids have in school today. Would you also deny them the right to bring their laptops to school because you didn't have one when you were in school.

Yes, I think laptops bring trouble. My kids go to school where there is good old fashioned textbooks, paper, and pencils. There's also a computer lab for their use. Oh, and kids also don't need iPads in case you were about to ask. How the hell did my generation survive without these things?

OMG You know and understanding nothing about modern education, and I'm talking about world wide, not just the US. Do you think kids in Japan or Sweden, which have excellent results in education, don't allow laptops. That hilarious. Most of the best, most expensive private schools around the world provide them for each student and teacher.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

How about you show me a document that says students are not allowed to have personal property in school.

As the son of two school teachers and someone who graduated from a public school dystem in 1992, I no longer have the Student Manuals from those days but we were restricted from bringing many items to school or wear certain styles of clothing.

Schools won't restrict students from having cell phones with them unless there is a big problem with it. There is not a widespread problem, and you don't make rules based on the bad behavior of a few. What were you restricted from bringing to school that you wanted to have in school? Individual schools have individual dress codes. I doubt there are any school that allow weapons, drugs, or alcohol. What were you denied?

Read the OP. It has just become a "big problem", Esmeralda. Had the girl not believed this scene would be captured on video she would never have planned it. If school policy was no cell phones on campus? This never would have happened and a police officer would still have his job.

Two lessons learned too late:

Cell phones need to be banned from school property.

Police officers do not need to be on school property unless a crime has been committed and then it should be dealt with from their headquarters. Not a station at the school where there can be a cover up or alternate enforcement applied. If a student breaks the law they should be arrested. If they have not broken the law they should not be arrested. We need more articulation between what is against the law and what is not (for those who cannot tell the difference).

 

[Anathema]

It isn't 'just an opinion like the rest of us.' My observations are based on 30 years of contact with schools in the US and internationally: they are not going to punish the entire school for the behavior of one student. They may take away her privilege to have a phone on campus, but not everyone's.

Why not? There is no need for any child to have a cell phone in a school. If you feel there is, please let us know what they are.

 

[007]

I wonder how many people will agree with this one.

The officer in the South Carolina incident, the one who grabbed the student and tossed her on the floor, clearly broke rules and has to pay the price. From the moment he touched her, he is responsible for everything he did. Period.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this guy, I would essentially be enabling his poor behavior. he would know that someone was covering for him in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Now, at the same time, the girl in the story had several opportunities to simply follow clear & reasonable instructions. If she had simply followed instructions at any of several points in this story, the officer would not have touched her.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this girl, I would essentially be enabling her poor behavior. she would know that someone was covering for her in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Do we agree? Does spinning and deflecting for poor behavior run a clear risk of enabling more in the future?
.

Regardless of how this has been SPUN, the little bitch got what she was asking for AND deserved.

Now... if she knew that henceforth, her bull shit was NOT going to be tolerated, and to expect the same thing to happen to her every time she tried this crap, do you think she'd be in any hurry to pull that stunt AGAIN?

That's the problem with kids today, they don't get their ass kicked for acting like little disrespectful shits. More screwed up social engineering from the progs.

 

[defcon4]

Bullshit. If she had been a blonde, blue-eyed cheerleader this would have never happened.

Exactly! Couldn't agree more. Nobody would give a shit and it wouldn't be blown out of proportion.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

So "lots of schools allow cell phones" is your argument that it's a right? Entirely untrue. I'm 40 years old, I went to school in the 1980's. Do you know what I did if I needed to contact my mother? I went to the principal's office and had them place a call.

You are a true Leftist, thinking "rights" can be drawn out of thin air. Hilarious!

No,this has nothing to do with politics. What I'm thinking is based on what I have seen, all over the world. Children from grade school though high school having cell phones; their parents want them to have them so they can be contacted. It works fine except for the few who break the rules and don't turn t hem off. You don't punish the entire student body for the behavior of a few students.

So they don't have a right to a cell phone is what you're saying....they just SHOULD have one?

Somehow my generation survived without cell phones. We also had NO problem getting in contact with parents when necessary. Your argument fails on every level.

Your generation survived without a lot of the things kids have in school today. Would you also deny them the right to bring their laptops to school because you didn't have one when you were in school.

Yes, I think laptops bring trouble. My kids go to school where there is good old fashioned textbooks, paper, and pencils. There's also a computer lab for their use. Oh, and kids also don't need iPads in case you were about to ask. How the hell did my generation survive without these things?

OMG You know and understanding nothing about modern education, and I'm talking about world wide, not just the US. Do you think kids in Japan or Sweden, which have excellent results in education, don't allow laptops. That hilarious. Most of the best, most expensive private schools around the world provide them for each student and teacher.

They do? My kids go to private school. I somehow must have missed out when they were passing out free laptops to kids and mine were overlooked.

Any more brilliant insights? Tell us some more about how kids have "rights" to all this technology on their person at all times.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I wonder how many people will agree with this one.

The officer in the South Carolina incident, the one who grabbed the student and tossed her on the floor, clearly broke rules and has to pay the price. From the moment he touched her, he is responsible for everything he did. Period.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this guy, I would essentially be enabling his poor behavior. he would know that someone was covering for him in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Now, at the same time, the girl in the story had several opportunities to simply follow clear & reasonable instructions. If she had simply followed instructions at any of several points in this story, the officer would not have touched her.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this girl, I would essentially be enabling her poor behavior. she would know that someone was covering for her in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Do we agree? Does spinning and deflecting for poor behavior run a clear risk of enabling more in the future?
.

Regardless of how this has been SPUN, the little bitch got what she was asking for AND deserved.

Now... if she knew that henceforth, her bull shit was NOT going to be tolerated, and to expect the same thing to happen to her every time she tried this crap, do you think she'd be in any hurry to pull that stunt AGAIN?

That's the problem with kids today, they don't get their ass kicked for acting like little disrespectful shits. More screwed up social engineering from the progs.

But the poor girl lost her mother and we should go gentle on her.

Oh, wait, that didn't happen. It turns out to be another Left wing lie.

 

[007]

Spinning, deflecting and poor behavior has been around since humans rose out of the primordial soup. What is new are cell phones so deflecting and spinning isn't as effective as it used to be.

Another reason why no kid needs a cell phone, iPod, or any ither electronic device in a classroom.

Absolutely. I agree. It would also give this girl the proper publicity she deserves. Make her behavior the reason that the schools are now opting to remove all cell phones, ipods, and electronic devices from school property. Once you are on school property? It is a cell phone free zone. Anyone found with a cell phone? Will be sent home with a one day suspension and they can increase it from there. Good idea, Anathema!

During boot camp if one soldier disobeys orders the entire group being trained with him suffer.

The problem with this is that the other kids are kids, not soldiers in boot camp. Teachers and schools do not have the right, and shouldn't have, to punish one kid for another kid's behavior. What is acceptable in boot camp is not acceptable in schools.
The class should have moved to the library to finish their lesson, leaving the girl alone in the classroom without an audience. Parents should have been called and told to pick her up immediately. She should have been expelled for her belligerent behavior and not allowed to have a cell phone in school for the rest of the year. Kids can have cell phones in school as long as they are turned off during school hours. Many of them need them in order to call parents to pick them up after school. Teachers have the right to take away a cell phone that goes off during a lesson or that the kid is using the the all between class.

The less publicity the misbehaving student gets, the less attention she gets, the better. The security person should not have gotten angry or aggressive with her. He should have cleared the classroom, except for her, sent the class and teacher to the library, and stayed with the misbehaving child in the classroom until parents arrived and took her home. She should then be expelled.

You have a very expanded view of what "rights" kids have. They don't have a right to a cell phone.

Yes they do. I doubt you have any experience with the educational environment. Children need to be able to contact their parents.

Well HOW THE FUCK DID I EVER SURVIVE? ... sheeeeeeezuz ...

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I wonder how many people will agree with this one.

The officer in the South Carolina incident, the one who grabbed the student and tossed her on the floor, clearly broke rules and has to pay the price. From the moment he touched her, he is responsible for everything he did. Period.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this guy, I would essentially be enabling his poor behavior. he would know that someone was covering for him in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Now, at the same time, the girl in the story had several opportunities to simply follow clear & reasonable instructions. If she had simply followed instructions at any of several points in this story, the officer would not have touched her.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this girl, I would essentially be enabling her poor behavior. she would know that someone was covering for her in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Do we agree? Does spinning and deflecting for poor behavior run a clear risk of enabling more in the future?
.

Regardless of how this has been SPUN, the little bitch got what she was asking for AND deserved.

Now... if she knew that henceforth, her bull shit was NOT going to be tolerated, and to expect the same thing to happen to her every time she tried this crap, do you think she'd be in any hurry to pull that stunt AGAIN?

That's the problem with kids today, they don't get their ass kicked for acting like little disrespectful shits. More screwed up social engineering from the progs.

But the poor girl lost her mother and we should go gentle on her.

Oh, wait, that didn't happen. It turns out to be another Left wing lie.

She lost her mother because the mother couldn't control her and gave her to foster care. The judge who hears this case won't give her a dime (if justice prevails).

 

[Anathema]

Schools won't restrict students from having cell phones with them unless there is a big problem with it. There is not a widespread problem, and you don't make rules based on the bad behavior of a few. What were you restricted from bringing to school that you wanted to have in school? Individual schools have individual dress codes. I doubt there are any school that allow weapons, drugs, or alcohol. What were you denied?

We were not allowed to bring music devices (walkmen and discmen), any sort of electronic gaming device, or pretty much any other electronic device of that era.

In my father's days they brought shotguns/rifles to school in irder to hunt on the way home from school.

 

[007]

Now tell me who is at fault again?

The unruly little bitch.

Bullshit. If she had been a blonde, blue-eyed cheerleader this would have never happened.

Bull shit, (it's two words), you can no more make that claim than you saying your IQ is over 80, idiot.

Cops don't give a rats ass what you look like. THEIR actions are based on YOUR actions, period.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I wonder how many people will agree with this one.

The officer in the South Carolina incident, the one who grabbed the student and tossed her on the floor, clearly broke rules and has to pay the price. From the moment he touched her, he is responsible for everything he did. Period.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this guy, I would essentially be enabling his poor behavior. he would know that someone was covering for him in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Now, at the same time, the girl in the story had several opportunities to simply follow clear & reasonable instructions. If she had simply followed instructions at any of several points in this story, the officer would not have touched her.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this girl, I would essentially be enabling her poor behavior. she would know that someone was covering for her in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Do we agree? Does spinning and deflecting for poor behavior run a clear risk of enabling more in the future?
.

Regardless of how this has been SPUN, the little bitch got what she was asking for AND deserved.

Now... if she knew that henceforth, her bull shit was NOT going to be tolerated, and to expect the same thing to happen to her every time she tried this crap, do you think she'd be in any hurry to pull that stunt AGAIN?

That's the problem with kids today, they don't get their ass kicked for acting like little disrespectful shits. More screwed up social engineering from the progs.

But the poor girl lost her mother and we should go gentle on her.

Oh, wait, that didn't happen. It turns out to be another Left wing lie.

She lost her mother because the mother couldn't control her and gave her to foster care. The judge who hears this case won't give her a dime (if justice prevails).

The mother likely couldn't control herself. Children who can't be controlled by their parents don't go into foster care, they go to juvenile detention or a variety of half way houses. The point is, she isn't dead like the lying Left has claimed for hundreds of pages on 3 different threads.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I wonder how many people will agree with this one.

The officer in the South Carolina incident, the one who grabbed the student and tossed her on the floor, clearly broke rules and has to pay the price. From the moment he touched her, he is responsible for everything he did. Period.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this guy, I would essentially be enabling his poor behavior. he would know that someone was covering for him in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Now, at the same time, the girl in the story had several opportunities to simply follow clear & reasonable instructions. If she had simply followed instructions at any of several points in this story, the officer would not have touched her.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this girl, I would essentially be enabling her poor behavior. she would know that someone was covering for her in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Do we agree? Does spinning and deflecting for poor behavior run a clear risk of enabling more in the future?
.

Regardless of how this has been SPUN, the little bitch got what she was asking for AND deserved.

Now... if she knew that henceforth, her bull shit was NOT going to be tolerated, and to expect the same thing to happen to her every time she tried this crap, do you think she'd be in any hurry to pull that stunt AGAIN?

That's the problem with kids today, they don't get their ass kicked for acting like little disrespectful shits. More screwed up social engineering from the progs.

But the poor girl lost her mother and we should go gentle on her.

Oh, wait, that didn't happen. It turns out to be another Left wing lie.

She lost her mother because the mother couldn't control her and gave her to foster care. The judge who hears this case won't give her a dime (if justice prevails).

The mother likely couldn't control herself. Children who can't be controlled by their parents don't go into foster care, they go to juvenile detention or a variety of half way houses. The point is, she isn't dead like the lying Left has claimed for hundreds of pages on 3 different threads.

I thought if the parent made a request to a judge the child could be placed in foster care. Am I mistaken?

 

[007]

Schools won't restrict students from having cell phones with them unless there is a big problem with it. There is not a widespread problem, and you don't make rules based on the bad behavior of a few. What were you restricted from bringing to school that you wanted to have in school? Individual schools have individual dress codes. I doubt there are any school that allow weapons, drugs, or alcohol. What were you denied?

We were not allowed to bring music devices (walkmen and discmen), any sort of electronic gaming device, or pretty much any other electronic device of that era.

In my father's days they brought shotguns/rifles to school in irder to hunt on the way home from school.

I had a GUN RACK in the back window of my first pickup when I was 17, and yes, IT HAD RIFLES in it, and I drove that truck to school.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I hope that teacher is making $100,000 per year to put up with students who willingly disrupt classes and cause nothing but unhealthy stress for someone trying to simply teach a class. Oooops, this is an anti teacher website.

No it isn't.

Yeah. Pretty much it is.

USMB is an anti-teacher website? Since when?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

@saintmichaeldefendthem

Despondent Parents See Foster Care as Only Option

Filled with a mixture of dread and relief one summer morning two years ago, Yahya Abdul-Hakam, an unemployed father of two, did what many fathers would find unthinkable: he turned his eldest daughter, then 11 years old, over to the city's foster care system.

Today, reluctantly recalling that moment, he says he had no choice. For several years, his daughter had been acting out at school, throwing things, screaming in class. At home, her angry outbursts resulted in fights with a younger sister, a cousin, sometimes even with him. Mr. Abdul-Hakam even admitted her to a psychiatric hospital once.

The morning he took her to the Lower Manhattan offices of the city's Administration for Children's Services, a tangle of emotions raced through him. ''Fear, uneasiness, nervousness,'' he recounted. ''It really came to a point where that was the only thing I could do.''

 

[SAYIT]

I'm tired of bumping into these girls at the club ... all late on a fucking weeknight.

l got a little cousin who got left back in the first grade.

Left back in the first grade ... 'cause his mama's out getting the groove on.

You know how dumb you got to be ... to get left back in the first grade?

''What's four plus four?'' ''Jell-O.'' But that ain't his fault. That's the mama's fault.

That's the mama's fucking fault. That's right.

I'm telling my cousin, ''Tina, talk to your fucking kid. Talk to him, teach him some shit."

''lf you said more words to him than, 'Mommy be back' ... 'he might know something.'' - Chris Rock (Bigger and Blacker, 1999)

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The right thing to do would be to confront the girls behavior with her parents, grandparents, history of disciplinary problems at school and deal with the real problem here. She'll be able to receive the necessary feedback and counseling to put her on the right track and the media can find another story to focus on.

 

[Esmeralda]

No,this has nothing to do with politics. What I'm thinking is based on what I have seen, all over the world. Children from grade school though high school having cell phones; their parents want them to have them so they can be contacted. It works fine except for the few who break the rules and don't turn t hem off. You don't punish the entire student body for the behavior of a few students.

So they don't have a right to a cell phone is what you're saying....they just SHOULD have one?

Somehow my generation survived without cell phones. We also had NO problem getting in contact with parents when necessary. Your argument fails on every level.

Your generation survived without a lot of the things kids have in school today. Would you also deny them the right to bring their laptops to school because you didn't have one when you were in school.

Yes, I think laptops bring trouble. My kids go to school where there is good old fashioned textbooks, paper, and pencils. There's also a computer lab for their use. Oh, and kids also don't need iPads in case you were about to ask. How the hell did my generation survive without these things?

OMG You know and understanding nothing about modern education, and I'm talking about world wide, not just the US. Do you think kids in Japan or Sweden, which have excellent results in education, don't allow laptops. That hilarious. Most of the best, most expensive private schools around the world provide them for each student and teacher.

They do? My kids go to private school. I somehow must have missed out when they were passing out free laptops to kids and mine were overlooked.

Any more brilliant insights? Tell us some more about how kids have "rights" to all this technology on their person at all times.

Your kids probably don't go to a private school with high fees, fees high enough so they can purchase laptops for the students and faculty. Such schools do exist, around the world, I know because I've seen it. Your attitude toward education is archaic.

As well, you don't seem to realize that just because you haven't seen or experienced something that doesn't mean it is wrong. Your perspective is limited and narrow minded.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

@saintmichaeldefendthem

Despondent Parents See Foster Care as Only Option

Filled with a mixture of dread and relief one summer morning two years ago, Yahya Abdul-Hakam, an unemployed father of two, did what many fathers would find unthinkable: he turned his eldest daughter, then 11 years old, over to the city's foster care system.

Today, reluctantly recalling that moment, he says he had no choice. For several years, his daughter had been acting out at school, throwing things, screaming in class. At home, her angry outbursts resulted in fights with a younger sister, a cousin, sometimes even with him. Mr. Abdul-Hakam even admitted her to a psychiatric hospital once.

The morning he took her to the Lower Manhattan offices of the city's Administration for Children's Services, a tangle of emotions raced through him. ''Fear, uneasiness, nervousness,'' he recounted. ''It really came to a point where that was the only thing I could do.''

From your link: The adolescents are likely to end up in group homes rather than with foster families.

Out of control kids are not placed in foster homes. If their own parents can't control them, then rent-a-parents certainly can't. If she's in foster care, its because the mother is in jail, doing drugs, or otherwise out of control.