The Truth about Mormons

[froggy]

Do you believe we have a record of everything Jesus did? Those who think we do are the ones with blinders on.

Also, Mormons are not taught to only hear/read the Book of Mormon. That is just false; I have never been taught that in thirty years plus of going to the Mormon church.

do you study from the bible or the book of mormon

I study both. Now I've answered your question, please answer mine. Do you believe we have a record of everything Jesus did?

No, and i don't believe jesus visited joe in the 1800 either.

 

[Liability]

do you study from the bible or the book of mormon

I study both. Now I've answered your question, please answer mine. Do you believe we have a record of everything Jesus did?

No, and i don't believe jesus visited joe in the 1800 either.

Some folks don't belive Jesus was born of a Virgin, turned water into wine, raised the dead, was raised FROM the dead or was the Son of God.

Go figure.

 

[froggy]

Some folks don't belive Jesus was born of a Virgin, turned water into wine, raised the dead, was raised FROM the dead or was the Son of God.

Go figure.

Do you?

 

[Dr.House]

Some folks don't belive Jesus was born of a Virgin, turned water into wine, raised the dead, was raised FROM the dead or was the Son of God.

Go figure.

Do you?

I think Liability already explained his thoughts on religion... A couple of posts above...

 

[Si modo]

Some folks don't belive Jesus was born of a Virgin, turned water into wine, raised the dead, was raised FROM the dead or was the Son of God.

Go figure.

Do you?

I think Liability already explained his thoughts on religion... A couple of posts above...

Yes, he did.

And this is still an interesting thread.

 

[froggy]

Some folks don't belive Jesus was born of a Virgin, turned water into wine, raised the dead, was raised FROM the dead or was the Son of God.

Go figure.

Do you?

I think Liability already explained his thoughts on religion... A couple of posts above...

and your his back up voice, well do you!

 

[Dr.House]

Do you?

I think Liability already explained his thoughts on religion... A couple of posts above...

Yes, he did.

And this is still an interesting thread.

Yes, it is...

 

[froggy]

False prophecies of Joseph Smith
History of the Church
Prophecy about Jesus' return within 56 years - "President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a relation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion--our trials, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh--even fifty-six years should wind up the scene." (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189). See context.
Jesus did not return within fifty-six years when 1891 arrived.
Doctrine and Covenants
Prophecy that the temple would be built in Missouri within Smith's Generation - "Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. 5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house... 31 Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed." (Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31.) See context.
The Mormons were driven out of Jackson County in 1833. They were not gathered there in accordance to this prophecy dealing with building the temple.
The prophecy clearly states that the generation present when the prophecy was given would not pass away until the temple was built at the western boundaries of the state of Missouri which is in Independence. This clearly failed.
All Nations would be involved in the American Civil War - "Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; 2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations," (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3). See context
This is clearly another false prophecy since all nations did not get involved in the American Civil War.
Prophesy that the earth will tremble and the sun be hidden in "not many days": "For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree," (Doctrine and Covenants 88:87) See context
The sun hasn't yet been hidden nor has the moon hidden its face.
This prophecy was given on 12/27/1832. "Not many days hence"? Since the writing of this article on 6/22/06, it has been 63,364 days or 173 years, 5 months, 26 days. I think that 63,364 days is more than "not many days".
For reference to January 1, 2000 it was 61,000 days (even), or 167 years, 5 days.
Pearl of Great Price
Prophecy that Isaiah 11 was about to be fulfilled - "In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, saying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when 'they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,' but soon would come," (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, verse 40). See context
Isaiah 11:6-9 says, "And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the kid, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7Also the cow and the bear will graze; Their young will lie down together; And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."
This has not yet been fulfilled. The wolf is not dwelling with the lamb, the calf and the lion are not together, nor are the cow and bear grazing together. The lion is not eating straw like an ox. Nursing children are not playing in the dens of cobras.

 

[Avatar4321]

Every religion has walls and walls of study material...

Yeah. very true. And its amazing how many people presume to be an authority on a religion without reading a single word of that material.

 

[Avatar4321]

I need not say any more, your worshiping joe's religion.

Well considering "Joe's religion" is the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, it would seem anyone who follows and believes it is in excellent company.

oh and people worship God, not religions.

 

[Liability]

Every religion has walls and walls of study material...

Yeah. very true. And its amazing how many people presume to be an authority on a religion without reading a single word of that material.

I just want to see the Gold Plates!

 

[froggy]

I need not say any more, your worshiping joe's religion.

Well considering "Joe's religion" is the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, it would seem anyone who follows and believes it is in excellent company.

oh and people worship God, not religions.

Ignoring the facts, false prophets do not restore the gospel. And following their teachings may cause you serving God in vain.

 

[Si modo]

I think Liability already explained his thoughts on religion... A couple of posts above...

Yes, he did.

And this is still an interesting thread.

Yes, it is...

And it continues to be.

 

[Avatar4321]

First, if you are going to cut and paste stuff please do two things:

1) Cite your source
2) Spend about 2 seconds organizing them properly. You aren't exactly doing alot here. its not like its going to ruin your day to make sure what you are quoting is coherent.

False prophecies of Joseph Smith

This should be entertaining:

History of the Church
Prophecy about Jesus' return within 56 years - "President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a relation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion--our trials, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh--even fifty-six years should wind up the scene." (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189). See context.
Jesus did not return within fifty-six years when 1891 arrived.

If you want the context i suggest you read Joseph's own words than a second hand source:

14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:

15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.

16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face.

17 I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time. (D&C 130: 14-17)

So what do we learn here.

1) if one can even consider this a prophecy, it's conditional.
2) Joseph wasnt even sure what it meant.
3) if it was a prophecy he is predicting that the Second Coming will not happen prior to 1891. Surprise, Joseph was right. The Second coming didnt happen before then.

And since you are insisting that this was a prophecy, I would have to chalk it up to one accurate prophecy to Joseph.

Doctrine and Covenants
Prophecy that the temple would be built in Missouri within Smith's Generation - "Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. 5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house... 31 Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed." (Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31.) See context.
The Mormons were driven out of Jackson County in 1833. They were not gathered there in accordance to this prophecy dealing with building the temple.
The prophecy clearly states that the generation present when the prophecy was given would not pass away until the temple was built at the western boundaries of the state of Missouri which is in Independence. This clearly failed.

I agree. See context:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, September 22 and 23, 1832. HC 1: 286–295. During the month of September, elders had begun to return from their missions in the eastern states and to make reports of their labors. It was while they were together in this season of joy that the following communication was received. The Prophet designates it a revelation on priesthood. (Preface of Section 84)

A Temple was built in Kirtland Ohio in 1836. And that's where the gathering begain.

So looks like Joseph 2 - Froggy 0

All Nations would be involved in the American Civil War - "Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; 2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations," (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3). See context
This is clearly another false prophecy since all nations did not get involved in the American Civil War.

Amazing how you can turn one of the most accurate prophecies of Joseph Smith and pretend as though it didnt happen. Let's go verse by verse:

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; (D&C 87:1, Emphasis added)

First, off the bat we can note that Joseph is talking about more than one war here. Otherwise, why would he be talking about multiple wars in the first sentence? The First one was to start with a Rebellion of South Carlina and would end many lives.

South Carolina did rebel. The American Civil war is still the war that terminated the most American lives in the history of our nation. I can safely say this verse has clearly be fulfilled to the letter. I would also note that the Civil war was the first major post-industrialization war. It was through studying how the North used the Railroads to transport troops and the industrialization of weapontry that eventually united the German Republic in the late 1800s and lead to WW1.

Now verse 2 and 3:

2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.
3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations. (D&C 87:2-3)

The South did call upon other nations for help, including Great Britain. And When Great Britain called upon other nations to defend themselves against other nations WW1 began. It was the defensive alliances that brought everyone into the war immediately. So again, the verse fits perfectly in with the history of what happened.

4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.
5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation. (D&C 87:4-5)

So there is a space of times. Slaves shall rise up against their masters. What do you think happened after WW2? Who do you think Gandhi was? He was a slave rising up agianst a militarily disciplined master. Almost all the colonized nations of the world rose up against their European masters.

And since then we have seen former slaves in this country mashal themselves. They've organized protested. and they cause problems for the "Gentiles" in the land. Look at the illegal immigration movement. Look at the black liberation movements. You think they havent been vexing the elites in charge for years? I think we are still seeing the fulfillment of those verses as we speak.

The last verses speak of the results and how to avoid them. However, I think Ive sufficiently shown the evidence that Joseph wasnt inaccurate. In fact, he described things remarkably precise.

Ill consider that Joseph 3 - Froggy 0

Prophesy that the earth will tremble and the sun be hidden in "not many days": "For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree," (Doctrine and Covenants 88:87) See context
The sun hasn't yet been hidden nor has the moon hidden its face.
This prophecy was given on 12/27/1832. "Not many days hence"? Since the writing of this article on 6/22/06, it has been 63,364 days or 173 years, 5 months, 26 days. I think that 63,364 days is more than "not many days".
For reference to January 1, 2000 it was 61,000 days (even), or 167 years, 5 days.
Pearl of Great Price

You find this problematic? Have you read the Prophecies in the Bible? The people then expected the end times prophecies to be fullfilled immediately. They still havent been. And you are complaining about length of time? A day to God is 1000 years to us. and you think many days have passed? Seriously? We are talking about the end times. Obviously Christ hasnt come yet. But that means He isnt? And this isnt going to happen? It's impossible to judge how long we have to wait when God hasnt revealed a time table to anyone.

Especially when the Lord has said this:

23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

24 For after today cometh the burning—this is speaking after the manner of the Lord—for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon.

25 Wherefore, if ye believe me, ye will labor while it is called today. (D&C 64:23-25)

So God considers it today until he comes. Well that really doesnt help your viewpoint that many days come by.

I would view this point as going to no one. It hasnt been fufilled so we dont know how accurate Joseph was. and it hasnt been unfulfilled because not specific timetable exists that delineates time limits.

Prophecy that Isaiah 11 was about to be fulfilled - "In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, saying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when 'they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,' but soon would come," (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, verse 40).

See context
Isaiah 11:6-9 says, "And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the kid, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7Also the cow and the bear will graze; Their young will lie down together; And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."

This has not yet been fulfilled. The wolf is not dwelling with the lamb, the calf and the lion are not together, nor are the cow and bear grazing together. The lion is not eating straw like an ox. Nursing children are not playing in the dens of cobras.

Isaiah 11 is about to be fulfilled. Parts of it already have. Those verses you have quoted are in reference to the Millinium of peace where Christ will reign on the earth that will occur after His Second Coming. Which is soon. Are you telling me you dont believe Christ will come? I mean that might explain alot.

As for the other parts, an Ensign was set up to the nations. The standard of truth has been erected. And as we speak it is gathering in the lost branches of the House of Israel together. And the Gathering will continue until Christ comes and all are One.

Id say thats no point either since the fulfillment still isnt complete.

So looks like Joseph 3 - Froggy 0: Undecided 2

Your list is pretty weak. None of them are actual false prophecies.

 

[Liability]

I have not much regard for Mormonism, but even I can see that froggy just got issued a royal beat down!

This THREAD is GREAT!

 

[Avatar4321]

Ignoring the facts, false prophets do not restore the gospel. And following their teachings may cause you serving God in vain.

But you concede that Christianity was in the midsts of Apostasy and needed to be restored. Ill take that as progress.

So where are the Apostles? Why hasnt Christ sent them? He promised us we would have Apostles until all come to a unity of faith. Has that happened recently? Have all Christian denominations ceased and we all become one body?

Because until then we still need Apostles and Prophets. They are after all the foundation of the Church with Christ being the Chief cornerstone. If we dont have a foundation, we dont have a Church.

 

[Si modo]

I have not much regard for Mormonism, but even I can see that froggy just got issued a royal beat down!

This THREAD is GREAT!

It sure is.

 

[froggy]

Jesus didn't return in 1891 joe gave an exact time,joe said temple in Missouri not Ohio in his lifetime, they didn't build there cause joe's rantings got them kicked out of Missouri. There was no world war in the confederate war. The only reason they established in Ohio, is they con-ed a baptist preacher into using his church.

 

[Zona]

Is beck still a mormon? Something about magic underwear, tablets that no one can read, interesting feelings towards blacks until the 70's, and a religion started here in the states. Oh yeah. this is good stuff.

 

[froggy]

All i'm saying if your gonna follow a re-edited version of the KJ bible, quit calling yourself a mormon and admit your a christian.