The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

mormons came about in the mid 1800s by joe smith, around the same time the gospels were being translated (fact) Why were there no records of mormons before then?

Atheism is considered the oldest religious belief in the world.

Why are there no holy books dedicated to Atheistic thought?

There is, read the old and new testament, it speaks alot of the ungodly.
So your comparing mormons to atheist. i would not have taken it that far.

Did you JUST say the the Bible is dedicated to Atheistic thought?..... Wow. You really did.

What happened is that you guessed the definition of Atheistic thinking it was something Godly when it is the opposite.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Your poll shows mormon to be a bunch of crazy friendly bigots.

If you're going that route you can't cheat and leave out the Christian part.

 

[Truthspeaker]

BTW Froggy. Id still like to know what parts of Book of Mormon you disagree with. What parts you do agree with. And what parts you find so offensive.

i've been telling you its copied partly from the KJV by a false prophet. And apparently he has deceived many with it, but don't worry there's a special place for those like him in hell.

Froggy, that part is not in the book. Further evidence you are playing God by judging souls to hell even though you have no clue what's actually IN the book.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The book is fiction, written by a false prophet for his own glory.
It must be bad for you, to have some false religion take away your sense of reasoning. I i put answers under what you wrote.

If the book was fiction then why cant you tell me a single thing that is incorrect? It shouldnt be this difficult should it?

Oh, I have no clue why you quoted those verses. They didnt appear anywhere in the text I just quoted. I dont see how verses that dont even appear in paraphrase in my quotes proves that my quotes are just mere copies of the KJV.

And more to the point, if you think the Book of Mormon is nothing but KJV verses, how on earth can you believe its false if you believe the Bible to be true?

Rewritten, thats when you take someone writings and change it around to make it your own. The things you quoted were taken from the bible by joey, if you can't see the similarity you really need help.

Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black! Your whole argument has been plagiarized from 8-Ball who plagiarized his arguments from "Born Again" Christian websites!

 

[Truthspeaker]

do you study from the bible or the book of mormon

I study both. Now I've answered your question, please answer mine. Do you believe we have a record of everything Jesus did?

No, and i don't believe jesus visited joe in the 1800 either.

Now that's all fine and dandy and no one is ever going to knock you for disbelieving that Joseph was a prophet.

What has us all scratching our head about you is that you only oppose without giving any constructive criticism of Joseph. Only accusations. Just educate yourself so that you actually know what it is that you oppose. Capeesh?

 

[Truthspeaker]

First, if you are going to cut and paste stuff please do two things:

1) Cite your source
2) Spend about 2 seconds organizing them properly. You aren't exactly doing alot here. its not like its going to ruin your day to make sure what you are quoting is coherent.

False prophecies of Joseph Smith

This should be entertaining:

History of the Church
Prophecy about Jesus' return within 56 years - "President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a relation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion--our trials, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh--even fifty-six years should wind up the scene." (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189). See context.
Jesus did not return within fifty-six years when 1891 arrived.

If you want the context i suggest you read Joseph's own words than a second hand source:




So what do we learn here.

1) if one can even consider this a prophecy, it's conditional.
2) Joseph wasnt even sure what it meant.
3) if it was a prophecy he is predicting that the Second Coming will not happen prior to 1891. Surprise, Joseph was right. The Second coming didnt happen before then.

And since you are insisting that this was a prophecy, I would have to chalk it up to one accurate prophecy to Joseph.



I agree. See context:



A Temple was built in Kirtland Ohio in 1836. And that's where the gathering begain.

So looks like Joseph 2 - Froggy 0




Amazing how you can turn one of the most accurate prophecies of Joseph Smith and pretend as though it didnt happen. Let's go verse by verse:



First, off the bat we can note that Joseph is talking about more than one war here. Otherwise, why would he be talking about multiple wars in the first sentence? The First one was to start with a Rebellion of South Carlina and would end many lives.

South Carolina did rebel. The American Civil war is still the war that terminated the most American lives in the history of our nation. I can safely say this verse has clearly be fulfilled to the letter. I would also note that the Civil war was the first major post-industrialization war. It was through studying how the North used the Railroads to transport troops and the industrialization of weapontry that eventually united the German Republic in the late 1800s and lead to WW1.

Now verse 2 and 3:



The South did call upon other nations for help, including Great Britain. And When Great Britain called upon other nations to defend themselves against other nations WW1 began. It was the defensive alliances that brought everyone into the war immediately. So again, the verse fits perfectly in with the history of what happened.



So there is a space of times. Slaves shall rise up against their masters. What do you think happened after WW2? Who do you think Gandhi was? He was a slave rising up agianst a militarily disciplined master. Almost all the colonized nations of the world rose up against their European masters.

And since then we have seen former slaves in this country mashal themselves. They've organized protested. and they cause problems for the "Gentiles" in the land. Look at the illegal immigration movement. Look at the black liberation movements. You think they havent been vexing the elites in charge for years? I think we are still seeing the fulfillment of those verses as we speak.

The last verses speak of the results and how to avoid them. However, I think Ive sufficiently shown the evidence that Joseph wasnt inaccurate. In fact, he described things remarkably precise.

Ill consider that Joseph 3 - Froggy 0




You find this problematic? Have you read the Prophecies in the Bible? The people then expected the end times prophecies to be fullfilled immediately. They still havent been. And you are complaining about length of time? A day to God is 1000 years to us. and you think many days have passed? Seriously? We are talking about the end times. Obviously Christ hasnt come yet. But that means He isnt? And this isnt going to happen? It's impossible to judge how long we have to wait when God hasnt revealed a time table to anyone.

Especially when the Lord has said this:

23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

24 For after today cometh the burning—this is speaking after the manner of the Lord—for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon.

25 Wherefore, if ye believe me, ye will labor while it is called today. (D&C 64:23-25)

So God considers it today until he comes. Well that really doesnt help your viewpoint that many days come by.

I would view this point as going to no one. It hasnt been fufilled so we dont know how accurate Joseph was. and it hasnt been unfulfilled because not specific timetable exists that delineates time limits.

Prophecy that Isaiah 11 was about to be fulfilled - "In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, saying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when 'they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,' but soon would come," (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, verse 40).

See context
Isaiah 11:6-9 says, "And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the kid, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7Also the cow and the bear will graze; Their young will lie down together; And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."

This has not yet been fulfilled. The wolf is not dwelling with the lamb, the calf and the lion are not together, nor are the cow and bear grazing together. The lion is not eating straw like an ox. Nursing children are not playing in the dens of cobras.

Isaiah 11 is about to be fulfilled. Parts of it already have. Those verses you have quoted are in reference to the Millinium of peace where Christ will reign on the earth that will occur after His Second Coming. Which is soon. Are you telling me you dont believe Christ will come? I mean that might explain alot.

As for the other parts, an Ensign was set up to the nations. The standard of truth has been erected. And as we speak it is gathering in the lost branches of the House of Israel together. And the Gathering will continue until Christ comes and all are One.

Id say thats no point either since the fulfillment still isnt complete.

So looks like Joseph 3 - Froggy 0: Undecided 2

Your list is pretty weak. None of them are actual false prophecies.

Actually a slight correction for you Avatar. The slaves being marshalled and disciplined for war was literal and during the civil war towards the end of it. Many escaped slaves joined the north and were marshalled by white leaders and led into battle. Hollywood made a solid movie about it too. Didn't you ever see Glory? True story. Another strong stamp of authenticity on Joseph's Prophetic Calling.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Ignoring the facts, false prophets do not restore the gospel.

A very true statement. We don't follow false prophets.

And following their teachings may cause you serving God in vain.

This statement of yours is just weird on two levels. If someone follows a false prophet's teachings they would NOT be serving God in the first place. It is also impossible to serve God in vain.

 

[2Parties]

I've never meet a Mormon. I think they are some smart, but misguided, people. I also think they are nicer and more frugal than the average person. My view comes from uninformed stereotypes.

 

[Avatar4321]

Actually a slight correction for you Avatar. The slaves being marshalled and disciplined for war was literal and during the civil war towards the end of it. Many escaped slaves joined the north and were marshalled by white leaders and led into battle. Hollywood made a solid movie about it too. Didn't you ever see Glory? True story. Another strong stamp of authenticity on Joseph's Prophetic Calling.

Im not disputing that occured. But I think in the context of the revelation, it comes sometime after war is poured out upon all the world. So I think anti-colonial movement is much more appropriate as a fulfillment.

Course, we are just minsing words here, the fact is it has been fulfilled.

 

[Truthspeaker]

All i'm saying if your gonna follow a re-edited version of the KJ bible, quit calling yourself a mormon and admit your a christian.

I shat a cat and split a gizzard when I heard that last statement. I admit it!!!
We're Christians! Halelujah!

 

[Truthspeaker]

Understand, gang, the active LDS will only accept their interpretations that are considered authoritative today. The History of The Church is considered authoritative until it is not considered authoritative. That spin doctoring does the same thing to statements by LDS leaders from the past.

So here is some outstanding advice. When the Mormon missionaries, LDS or any of the other sects of Mormonism, show up on your doorstep, give them cookies and milk, tell them that Jesus loves them, and send them on their way.

be careful what you give us, cuz we'll be back for more! LDS Missionaries are the hungriest people on the planet.

 

[froggy]

When you read of king zedekiah history nephi is never recorded as being there. And lehi, his so called father, there is no record of at all. Reading nephi is like reading the bible with all the stories mixed together. and according to nephi he himself was a jehovah. And he doesn't mention nothing of the babylonians. Actually when you read the history of the time, these so called authors of the books of mormon are not mentioned.

 

[froggy]

do you believe the garden of eden was in missouri, and thats where it all began

 

[froggy]

sounds like nephi did the same thing joe did.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I read yo damn book. It's just about a bunch of squabbling idiots that keep gettin thier dumb asses in slings and everybody hates thier dumb asses then they find some magic plates but no cups or bowls or silverware so they hide the plates hopin to get a complete sevice setting sometime down the road but it never happens.

None of that is in the Book of Mormon. You really read it huh?

Nah, he didn't read it... He's still trying hard to get through the Seuss series...

For some reason he's stuck re-reading "Hop On Pop"...

I am a Yop. All I do is Hop, I like to hop and hop and hop, from finger top to finger top, I like to hop all day and then, I hop and hop right back again. Why do I like to hop hop hop? I do not know go ask your Pop!

Truly intellectual reading is the genius that IS Dr. Seuss.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I've never meet a Mormon. I think they are some smart, but misguided, people. I also think they are nicer and more frugal than the average person. My view comes from uninformed stereotypes.

Smart is a good stereotype to have. Misguided is relative to who is guiding you. Nice yes, and frugal is a nice way of putting it. Most of us are just plain cheap.

 

[froggy]

Actually a slight correction for you Avatar. The slaves being marshalled and disciplined for war was literal and during the civil war towards the end of it. Many escaped slaves joined the north and were marshalled by white leaders and led into battle. Hollywood made a solid movie about it too. Didn't you ever see Glory? True story. Another strong stamp of authenticity on Joseph's Prophetic Calling.

Im not disputing that occured. But I think in the context of the revelation, it comes sometime after war is poured out upon all the world. So I think anti-colonial movement is much more appropriate as a fulfillment.

Course, we are just minsing words here, the fact is it has been fulfilled.

no ava, you can't put in things to make it look like joe got it right, he didn't

 

[Truthspeaker]

Actually a slight correction for you Avatar. The slaves being marshalled and disciplined for war was literal and during the civil war towards the end of it. Many escaped slaves joined the north and were marshalled by white leaders and led into battle. Hollywood made a solid movie about it too. Didn't you ever see Glory? True story. Another strong stamp of authenticity on Joseph's Prophetic Calling.

Im not disputing that occured. But I think in the context of the revelation, it comes sometime after war is poured out upon all the world. So I think anti-colonial movement is much more appropriate as a fulfillment.

Course, we are just minsing words here, the fact is it has been fulfilled.

I'm fully convinced that Smith was referring specifically to the slaves in our civil war. If you look at the growth of worlwide warfare on a timeline year by year from the 1860's, just about every country in the world was directly or indirectly involved in a war.
New Zealand, Great Britain, France, China, The US, Mexico, , Germany, Ottoman Empire, Italy, Japan to name a few.

 

[froggy]

Actually a slight correction for you Avatar. The slaves being marshalled and disciplined for war was literal and during the civil war towards the end of it. Many escaped slaves joined the north and were marshalled by white leaders and led into battle. Hollywood made a solid movie about it too. Didn't you ever see Glory? True story. Another strong stamp of authenticity on Joseph's Prophetic Calling.

Im not disputing that occurred. But I think in the context of the revelation, it comes sometime after war is poured out upon all the world. So I think anti-colonial movement is much more appropriate as a fulfillment.

Course, we are just mincing words here, the fact is it has been fulfilled.

I'm fully convinced that Smith was referring specifically to the slaves in our civil war. If you look at the growth of worldwide warfare on a timeline year by year from the 1860's, just about every country in the world was directly or indirectly involved in a war.
New Zealand, Great Britain, France, China, The US, Mexico, , Germany, Ottoman Empire, Italy, Japan to name a few.

he said nothing of slaves, are you putting words in his phony prediction

 

[froggy]

and what about them tablets nephi mentioned ( oh that was moses and the tablets) nephi made his version plates.