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I think the Mormon episode of South Park did a pretty decent ~30 minute synopsis of much of the hokey things around the Mormon religion... Smith was a pretty shady character
Having studied Joseph Smith very closely, I don't see how he is anyway a Shady character. I know there have been many claims to the contrary, but the evidence just isn't there.
He is supposedly a con artist that gets nothing but hardship for his troubles. He is supposedly brilliant yet stupid. He supposedly selfifsh yet so often gives up his own time and property to help others. The accusations and his actions just don't match up.
Perhaps if you had some specific instance we could discuss more indepth. But my studies just don't show anything that shady about him.
I think the Mormon episode of South Park did a pretty decent ~30 minute synopsis of much of the hokey things around the Mormon religion... Smith was a pretty shady character
Which lies are you referring to?
The whopper that the BOM came from G-d to that crystal gazing con-artist Joe Smith would be a good place to start.
Been trying to ram that point home to "Truthspeaker" for months......
He can't see the difference between true biblical prophets, and J.S. Jr............Actually he/Truth, can't discern the difference with any and all LDS prophets up to the present.
NRA: When you explore the teachings/doctrines of the Mormon church, it is such a convoluted mess of contradictions, and weird stuff. It is so unbiblical in so many ways.
They don't want to face the facts about the BOM not being archeologically validated in it's recordings of North and South American accounts.
They think that J.S. Jr. is a martyr, when he was a criminal. They only accepty their churchs' account of his death, and totally ignore, press accounts from Illinois that that contradict their account.
Even the Christian church puts a lot of creedence in the Jewish historical writer, Josephus, who lived during the time of shortly after the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. Josephus was not a Christian, but his accounts parallel the N.T..
Dead Sea Scrolls: This is the most fantastic find!
A complete book of Isaiah was found and partial manuscripts of all the other O.T. books except for Ester.
In every case the nowaday translations when compared to the Dead Sea manuscripts indicate that God has omnipotently protected His "inspired" Word to this present day.
The Mormons claim that the bible is corrupted in many areas as man re-translating over the last few thousand years has changed the original message from God to man. Thus we needed it straightened out through Joseph Smith's encounter with the angel Moroni.
People wonder where the Ark of the Convenant is, as it was taken from the temple thousands of years ago...............The Mormons can't even find their holy gold plates that only date back to the early 1800's? The Jews were able to keep the Ark for much longer and only lost it through plunder by enemies, and punishment from God for their disobedience. Besides that, the Ark isn't necessary, as the "Perfect", Jesus Christ is the fullfillment of the Law(Hebrews/N.T.) in every way.
The Mormon church is classified as a "cult" by mainstream biblical Christianity. How to the Mormons respond? They are "victims" like their first prophet, J.S. Jr.. Everytime they come to the door of a house all primmed-up with white dress shirt, black slacks, and neck tie, they have already mentally prepared themselves as "victims" of non-Mormon mankind. If you counter their claims with biblical facts they take the victim's route of course with you. Your hopeless, as they have the truth.
Truthspeaker.........the moniker used by this LDS member is the epitome of exuded "pride".............Who or what true Christian, would take that moniker?
Here is one reason. The Mormon does not understand the unlying reason that folks come to Christ for salvation.............GRACE! Yes, grace. Grace=unmerited favor of God upon the helpless sinner, or fallen man.
The very work of grace produces humility, humbleness, and gratitude in the "true" Christian.
So when a biblical Christian like myself calls to their attention this dicotomy, I'm accused of being prideful, arrogant, mean-spirited, etc...... That's the Mormon's "fall-back" defense. They just don't understand the underlying principles of God's grace.
They bought into a humanistic based religiosity, that promises "celestial sex" in heaven...................as a reward for being good, works-based, God fearing people.
One might even ask about the inequality of the man-woman relationship in the Mormon doctrine........................
How is it that the husband in a Mormon marriage carries the rights or responsibility to raise or "not raise" his earthly wife to a heavenly state?
Also there is a distinct parallet between the crazy teachings of Scientology, and Mormonism in the area of "progression" of the human species. Both belief systems believe that earth is just one of many stopping points where God or some race of human beings has taken-up residence.
Scientologists believe that us/mankind actually came from other planets, and have just colonized this one called "earth". Mormons believe that there are many Jesus'es or saviors for a myriad of planets. I.E.. We are just one of many inhabited planets where a savior was sent to save that race or species.
Also, take note that the Mormon doctrine teaches that God "impregnated" Mary............in order for Jesus to be His seed and savior for the earth's race of human beings.
Also ask Mormons about "hell". They also have skewed that.
All in all, Mormonism has grown by leaps and bounds because it is a human inspired religion that meets the needs of the "carnal" nature or side of man. The "Spiritual" man who is indwelt with God the Holy Spirit, can see right through this false belief system.
It is works based to the hilt. They/Mormons deny it, but they "know" that they go door to door in order to please their god, and also to attain to higher stature within their religions ranks. Elders hold an iron sway over lesser members. Members are encouraged to "not" do independent study of the bible without "oversight" from an elder or more "mature" Mormon. Why? Because "independent" study of the bible might reveal the hypocrisy and outright untruths that have been taught by elders to young/new members.
Why don't the elders tell about the celestial sex after death, or the Priesthoods........that Christ did away with at Calvary when He said, "It is finished!", and the curtain in the Holy temple was rent in two, and sinful man was given access to the Holy of Holies.........via Christ's atoning, death on the cross.
Ask a Mormon why the Cross is not venerated as the symbol of the Christians victory over death and sin, and the gateway to eternal life?
Instead they have the angel Moroni blowing a trumpet on top of their temples.
The cross is an abomination to fallen man, but represents everything to the true Christian. The cross is not a pretty thing, but because of it, our God, Lord, and Savior gave access to the Holy of Holies for all mankind......................the Priesthood was abolished.............Now every true Christian is a royal priest, and a royal ambassador to lost mankind.
Bottom line: Cult members are brainwashed. But to be brainwashed, you must accept what you hear, because you "want" it to be that way. The bible doesn't present itself to mankind in a way that man "enjoys". In fact man tends to run from the bible, as it presents man in a most undignified way............and if acknowledged, it humbles man to the point of grief, repentance, and then hopefully a reaching-out for salvation through Jesus Christ.
The Mormons on the surface talk the talk, and appear to walk the walk, but scratch the veneer of their church with the bible in your right hand as a compass and you will see the unGodlieness of it's teachings.
I think the Mormon episode of South Park did a pretty decent ~30 minute synopsis of much of the hokey things around the Mormon religion... Smith was a pretty shady character
Having studied Joseph Smith very closely, I don't see how he is anyway a Shady character. I know there have been many claims to the contrary, but the evidence just isn't there.
He is supposedly a con artist that gets nothing but hardship for his troubles. He is supposedly brilliant yet stupid. He supposedly selfifsh yet so often gives up his own time and property to help others. The accusations and his actions just don't match up.
Perhaps if you had some specific instance we could discuss more indepth. But my studies just don't show anything that shady about him.
We can start with arrest record.. going with his 'translation change' slight of hand with the 'seer stones' after the original translation was taken away and he was asked to repeat what he did... his debunked and inaccurate claims in the archaeological timeline... he smells of a con artist at most every angle
We can start with arrest record.. going with his 'translation change' slight of hand with the 'seer stones' after the original translation was taken away and he was asked to repeat what he did... his debunked and inaccurate claims in the archaeological timeline... he smells of a con artist at most every angle
These were days never to be forgottento sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, Interpreters, the history or record called The Book of Mormon.
To notice, in even few words, the interesting account given by Mormon and his faithful son, Moroni, of a people once beloved and favored of heaven, would supersede my present design; I shall therefore defer this to a future period, and, as I said in the introduction, pass more directly to some few incidents immediately connected with the rise of this Church, which may be entertaining to some thousands who have stepped forward, amid the frowns of bigots and the calumny of hypocrites, and embraced the Gospel of Christ.
No men, in their sober senses, could translate and write the directions given to the Nephites from the mouth of the Savior, of the precise manner in which men should build up His Church, and especially when corruption had spread an uncertainty over all forms and systems practiced among men, without desiring a privilege of showing the willingness of the heart by being buried in the liquid grave, to answer a good conscience by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
After writing the account given of the Saviors ministry to the remnant of the seed of Jacob, upon this continent, it was easy to be seen, as the prophet said it would be, that darkness covered the earth and gross darkness the minds of the people. On reflecting further it was as easy to be seen that amid the great strife and noise concerning religion, none had authority from God to administer the ordinances of the Gospel. For the question might be asked, have men authority to administer in the name of Christ, who deny revelations, when His testimony is no less than the spirit of prophecy, and His religion based, built, and sustained by immediate revelations, in all ages of the world when He has had a people on earth? If these facts were buried, and carefully concealed by men whose craft would have been in danger if once permitted to shine in the faces of men, they were no longer to us; and we only waited for the commandment to be given Arise and be baptized.
This was not long desired before it was realized. The Lord, who is rich in mercy, and ever willing to answer the consistent prayer of the humble, after we had called upon Him in a fervent manner, aside from the abodes of men, condescended to manifest to us His will. On a sudden, as from the midst of eternity, the voice of the Redeemer spake peace to us, while the veil was parted and the angel of God came down clothed with glory, and delivered the anxiously looked for message, and the keys of the Gospel of repentance. What joy! what wonder! what amazement! While the world was racked and distractedwhile millions were groping as the blind for the wall, and while all men were resting upon uncertainty, as a general mass, our eyes beheld, our ears heard, as in the blaze of day; yes, moreabove the glitter of the May sunbeam, which then shed its brilliancy over the face of nature! Then his voice, though mild, pierced to the center, and his words, I am thy fellow-servant, dispelled every fear. We listened, we gazed, we admired! Twas the voice of an angel from glory, twas a message from the Most High! And as we heard we rejoiced, while His love enkindled upon our souls, and we were wrapped in the vision of the Almighty! Where was room for doubt? Nowhere; uncertainty had fled, doubt had sunk no more to rise, while fiction and deception had fled forever!
But, dear brother, think, further think for a moment, what joy filled our hearts, and with what surprise we must have bowed, (for who would not have bowed the knee for such a blessing?) when we received under his hand the Holy Priesthood as he said, Upon you my fellow-servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer this Priesthood and this authority, which shall remain upon earth, that the Sons of Levi may yet offer an offering unto the Lord in righteousness!
I shall not attempt to paint to you the feelings of this heart, nor the majestic beauty and
glory which surrounded us on this occasion; but you will believe me when I say, that earth, nor men, with the eloquence of time, cannot begin to clothe language in as interesting and sublime a manner as this holy personage. No; nor has this earth power to give the joy, to bestow the peace, or comprehend the wisdom which was contained in each sentence as they were delivered by the power of the Holy Spirit! Man may deceive his fellow-men, deception may follow deception, and the children of the wicked one may have power to seduce the foolish and untaught, till naught but fiction feeds the many, and the fruit of falsehood carries in its current the giddy to the grave; but one touch with the finger of his love, yes, one ray of glory from the upper world, or one word from the mouth of the Savior, from the bosom of eternity, strikes it all into insignificance, and blots it forever from the mind. The assurance that we were in the presence of an angel, the certainty that we heard the voice of Jesus, and the truth unsullied as it flowed from a pure personage, dictated by the will of God, is to me past description, and I shall ever look upon this expression of the Saviors goodness with wonder and thanksgiving while I am permitted to tarry; and in those mansions where perfection dwells and sin never comes, I hope to adore in that day which shall never cease.Messenger and Advocate, vol. 1 (October 1834), pp. 1416
Having studied Joseph Smith very closely, I don't see how he is anyway a Shady character. I know there have been many claims to the contrary, but the evidence just isn't there.
He is supposedly a con artist that gets nothing but hardship for his troubles. He is supposedly brilliant yet stupid. He supposedly selfifsh yet so often gives up his own time and property to help others. The accusations and his actions just don't match up.
Perhaps if you had some specific instance we could discuss more indepth. But my studies just don't show anything that shady about him.
We can start with arrest record.. going with his 'translation change' slight of hand with the 'seer stones' after the original translation was taken away and he was asked to repeat what he did... his debunked and inaccurate claims in the archaeological timeline... he smells of a con artist at most every angle
Paul and many of the apostles and almost all Christians in the early days had pretty bad arrest records. And one other guy too.....hmmm.....what was his name again?.......Oh yeah! Jesus!
We can start with arrest record.. going with his 'translation change' slight of hand with the 'seer stones' after the original translation was taken away and he was asked to repeat what he did... his debunked and inaccurate claims in the archaeological timeline... he smells of a con artist at most every angle
Paul and many of the apostles and almost all Christians in the early days had pretty bad arrest records. And one other guy too.....hmmm.....what was his name again?.......Oh yeah! Jesus!
Comparing the 12 Apostles of the bible arrest records or reasons for arrest versus JS Jr. is like comparing apples to oranges. You know it to. What a lame comparison/argument. That's the best you can do?
The 12 Apostles were all arrested on various occassions for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ................and receiving lashes, stones, beheadings, crucifixions, etc..............for telling the Jewish and Roman authorities that they wouldn't quit preaching even after receiving jail and torture.
JS Jr. Breaks into a Newspaper office, attempts to destroy the paper's printing press for printing negative-Mormon stories about his friendly little band of followers and himself.
He is summarily jailed, and a mob comes to drag him out of jail and do who know's what............running him out of town on a rail, tar and feather him, or kill him...................Anyway this brave apostle of god gets hold of a hand gun snuck into his cell, and instead of going to his death like a true martyr he shoots it out with the crowd, and in doing so is fatally shot. Wow, what a testimony of trusting into God his life.
Now the Mormon rewriters of documented historical accounts on this episode that ended JS's life, have made him into a poor, poor, martyr.
********
Now put the testimonies of the biblical apostles against JS jr. Brigham Young.........and many of their close associates........and there is absolutely no comparison. What you observe is cowardice,,,,,,,,,a lack of true conviction to God...........and basically criminal behavior.
*****
Also Mormon apologists..............Answer this one: Why did President Theodore Roosevelt demand that the American Flag be removed from the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City?
I think the Mormon episode of South Park did a pretty decent ~30 minute synopsis of much of the hokey things around the Mormon religion... Smith was a pretty shady character
Ok, South Park? Really? The encyclopedia of all wisdom?
Paul and many of the apostles and almost all Christians in the early days had pretty bad arrest records. And one other guy too.....hmmm.....what was his name again?.......Oh yeah! Jesus!
Comparing the 12 Apostles of the bible arrest records or reasons for arrest versus JS Jr. is like comparing apples to oranges. You know it to. What a lame comparison/argument. That's the best you can do?
The 12 Apostles were all arrested on various occassions for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ................and receiving lashes, stones, beheadings, crucifixions, etc..............for telling the Jewish and Roman authorities that they wouldn't quit preaching even after receiving jail and torture.
JS Jr. Breaks into a Newspaper office, attempts to destroy the paper's printing press for printing negative-Mormon stories about his friendly little band of followers and himself.
He is summarily jailed, and a mob comes to drag him out of jail and do who know's what............running him out of town on a rail, tar and feather him, or kill him...................Anyway this brave apostle of god gets hold of a hand gun snuck into his cell, and instead of going to his death like a true martyr he shoots it out with the crowd, and in doing so is fatally shot. Wow, what a testimony of trusting into God his life.
Now the Mormon rewriters of documented historical accounts on this episode that ended JS's life, have made him into a poor, poor, martyr.
********
Now put the testimonies of the biblical apostles against JS jr. Brigham Young.........and many of their close associates........and there is absolutely no comparison. What you observe is cowardice,,,,,,,,,a lack of true conviction to God...........and basically criminal behavior.
*****
Also Mormon apologists..............Answer this one: Why did President Theodore Roosevelt demand that the American Flag be removed from the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City?
Jesus was not charged with preaching his gospel. They had to arraign him on a false charge the Romans would understand. Cmon....You know better than that. Of course it was the REAL reason he was charged but not on paper. Just like Joseph Smith. Really he was arrested because of the gospel but that's not gonna fly in any court, just like it didn't fly with Pilate. The Jews had to get him convicted under another name. That name was insurrection against Ceasar, claiming he was a king and causing a disturbance of the peace. Their initial charge of blasphemy was only good enough in the courts of the high priests but was no crime to the pagan Roman officers. You see it is EXACTLY the same. You DO know better than to claim otherwise.
As to President Teddy asking for the flag to be taken down, I'd say that is more of a rumor than a fact. I've never heard of that and if it's true, who cares what Teddy thinks?
Chapter XIV
CONFERENCE OF THE CHURCH, APRIL, 1844 (CONTINUED)—THE KING FOLLETT SERMON—THE CHARACTER OF GOD—RELIGIOUS FREEDOM—GOD AN EXALTED MAN—ETERNAL LIFE TO KNOW GOD AND JESUS CHRIST—EVERLASTING BURNINGS—MEANING OF THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES—A COUNCIL OF THE GODS—MEANING OF THE WORD CREATE—THE IMMORTAL INTELLIGENCE—THE RELATION OF MAN TO GOD—OUR GREATEST RESPONSIBILITY—THE UNPARDONABLE SIN—THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN—THE SECOND DEATH.
Sunday, April 7, 1844.—[Conference Report Continued.]
At quarter past three, p.m., the President having arrived, the choir sang a hymn, Elder Amasa Lyman offered prayer.
President Joseph Smith delivered the following discourse before about twenty thousand Saints, being the funeral sermon of Elder King Follett. Reported by Willard Richards, Wilford Woodruff, Thomas Bullock and William Clayton.
Beloved Saints: I will call [for] the attention of this congregation while I address you on the subject of the dead. The decease of our beloved brother, Elder King Follett, who was crushed in a well by the falling of a tub of rock, has more immediately led me to this subject. I have been requested to speak by his friends and relatives, but inasmuch as there are a great many in this congregation who live in this city as well as elsewhere, who have lost friends, I feel disposed to speak on the subject in general, and offer you my ideas, so far as I have ability, and so far as I shall be inspired by the Holy Spirit to dwell on this subject.
I want your prayers and faith that I may have the instruction of Almighty God and the gift of the Holy Ghost, so that I may set forth things that are true and which can be easily comprehended by you, and that the testimony may carry conviction to your hearts and minds of the truth of what I shall say. Pray that the Lord may strengthen my lungs, stay the winds, and let the prayers of the Saints to heaven appear, that they may enter into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, for the effectual prayers of the righteous avail much. There is strength here, and I verily believe that your prayers will be heard.
Before I enter fully into the investigation of the subject which is lying before me, I wish to pave the way and bring up the subject from the beginning, that you may understand it. I will make a few preliminaries, in order that you may understand the subject when I come to it. I do not calculate or intend to please your ears with superfluity of words or oratory, or with much learning; but I calculate [intend] to edify you with the simple truths from heaven.
The Character of God
In the first place, I wish to go back to the beginning—to the morn of creation. There is the starting point for us to look to, in order to understand and be fully acquainted with the mind, purposes and decrees of the Great Eloheim, who sits in yonder heavens as he did at the creation of the world. It is necessary for us to have an understanding of God himself in the beginning. If we start right, it is easy to go right all the time; but if we start wrong we may go wrong, and it will be a hard matter to get right.
There are but a very few beings in the world who understand rightly the character of God. The great majority of mankind do not comprehend anything, either that which is past, or that which is to come, as it respects their relationship to God. They do not know, neither do they understand the nature of that relationship; and consequently they know but little above the brute beast, or more than to eat, drink and sleep. This is all man knows about God or His existence, unless it is given by the inspiration of the Almighty.
If a man learns nothing more than to eat, drink and sleep, and does not comprehend any of the designs of God, the beast comprehends the same things. It eats, drinks, sleeps, and knows nothing more about God; yet it knows as much as we, unless we are able to comprehend by the inspiration of Almighty God. If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves. I want to go back to the beginning, and so lift your minds into more lofty spheres and a more exalted understanding than what the human mind generally aspires to.
I want to ask this congregation, every man, woman and child, to answer the question in their own hearts, what kind of a being God is? Ask yourselves; turn your thoughts into your hearts, and say if any of you have seen, heard, or communed with Him? This is a question that may occupy your attention for a long time. I again repeat the question—What kind of a being is God? Does any man or woman know? Have any of you seen Him, heard Him, or communed with Him? Here is the question that will, peradventure, from this time henceforth occupy your attention. The scriptures inform us that "This is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent."
If any man does not know God, and inquires what kind of a being He is,—if he will search diligently his own heart—if the declaration of Jesus and the apostles be true, he will realize that he has not eternal life; for there can be eternal life on no other principle.
My first object is to find out the character of the only wise and true, God, and what kind of a being He is; and if I am so fortunate as to be the man to comprehend God, and explain or convey the principles to your hearts, so that the Spirit seals them upon you, then let every man and woman henceforth sit in silence, put their hands on their mouths, and never lift their hands or voices, or say anything against the man of God or the servants of God again. But if I fail to do it, it becomes my duty to renounce all further pretensions to revelations and inspirations, or to be a prophet; and I should be like the rest of the world—a false teacher, be hailed as a friend, and no man would seek my life. But if all religious teachers were honest enough to renounce their pretensions to godliness when their ignorance of the knowledge of God is made manifest, they will all be as badly off as I am, at any rate; and you might just as well take the lives of other false teachers as that of mine. If any man is authorized to take away my life because he thinks and says I am a false teacher, then, upon the same principle, we should be justified in taking away the life of every false teacher, and where would be the end of blood? And who would not be the sufferer?
The Privilege of Religious Freedom
But meddle not with any man for his religion: all governments ought to permit every man to enjoy his religion unmolested. No man is authorized to take away life in consequence of difference of religion, which all laws and governments ought to tolerate and protect, right or wrong. Every man has a natural, and, in our country, a constitutional right to be a false prophet, as well as a true prophet. If I show, verily, that I have the truth of God, and show that ninety-nine out of every hundred professing religious ministers are false teachers, having no authority, while they pretend to hold the keys of God's kingdom on earth, and was to kill them because they are false teachers, it would deluge the whole world with blood.
I will prove that the world is wrong, by showing what God is. I am going to inquire after God; for I want you all to know Him, and to be familiar with Him; and if I am bringing you to a knowledge of Him, all persecutions against me ought to cease. You will then know that I am His servant; for I speak as one having authority.
God An Exalted Man
I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth, for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why He interferes with the affairs of man.
God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible,—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another.
In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.
These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.
Eternal Life to Know God and Jesus Christ
I wish I was in a suitable place to tell it, and that I had the trump of an archangel, so that I could tell the story in such a manner that persecution would cease forever. What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power— to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me.
The Righteous to Dwell in Everlasting Burnings
These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said.
When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave. I suppose I am not allowed to go into an investigation of anything that is not contained in the Bible. If I do, I think there are so many over-wise men here that they would cry "treason" and put me to death. So I will go to the old Bible and turn commentator today.
I shall comment on the very first Hebrew word in the Bible; I will make a comment on the very first sentence of the history of creation in the Bible—Berosheit. I want to analyze the word. Baith—in, by, through, and everything else. Roch—the head, Sheit—grammatical termination. When the inspired man wrote it, he did not put the baith there. An old Jew without any authority added the word; he thought it too bad to begin to talk about the head! It read first, "The head one of the Gods brought forth the Gods." That is the true meaning of the words. Baurau signifies to bring forth. If you do not believe it, you do not believe the learned man of God. Learned men can teach you no more than what I have told you. Thus the head God brought forth the Gods in the grand council.
I will transpose and simplify it in the English language. Oh, ye lawyers, ye doctors, and ye priests, who have persecuted me, I want to let you know that the Holy Ghost knows something as well as you do. The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world. The grand councilors sat at the head in yonder heavens and contemplated the creation of the worlds which were created at the time. When I say doctors and lawyers, I mean the doctors and lawyers of the scriptures. I have done so hitherto without explanation, to let the lawyers flutter and everybody laugh at them. Some learned doctors might take a notion to say the scriptures say thus and so; and we must believe the scriptures; they are not to be altered. But I am going to show you an error in them.
I have an old edition of the New Testament in the Latin, Hebrew, German and Greek languages. I have been reading the German, and find it to be the most [nearly] correct translation, and to correspond nearest to the revelations which God has given to me for the last fourteen years. It tells about Jacobus, the son of Zebedee. It means Jacob. In the English New Testament it is translated James. Now, if Jacob had the keys, you might talk about James through all eternity and never get the keys. In the 21st. of the fourth chapter of Matthew, my old German edition gives the word Jacob instead of James.
The doctors (I mean doctors of law, not physic) say, "If you preach anything not according to the Bible, we will cry treason." How can we escape the damnation of hell, except God be with us and reveal to us? Men bind us with chains. The Latin says Jacobus, which means Jacob; the Hebrew says Jacob, the Greek says Jacob and the German says Jacob, here we have the testimony of four against one. I thank God that I have got this old book; but I thank him more for the gift of the Holy Ghost. I have got the oldest book in the world; but I have got the oldest book in my heart, even the gift of the Holy Ghost. I have all the four Testaments. Come here, ye learned men, and read, if you can. I should not have introduced this testimony, were it not to back up the word rosh—the head, the Father of the Gods. I should not have brought it up, only to show that I am right.
A Council of the Gods
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted [prepared] a plan to create the world and people it. When we begin to learn this way, we begin to learn the only true God, and what kind of a being we have got to worship. Having a knowledge of God, we begin to know how to approach Him, and how to ask so as to receive an answer.
When we understand the character of God, and know how to come to Him, he begins to unfold the heavens to us, and to tell us all about it. When we are ready to come to him, he is ready to come to us.
Now, I ask all who hear me, why the learned men who are preaching salvation, say that God created the heavens and the earth out of nothing? The reason is, that they are unlearned in the things of God, and have not the gift of the Holy Ghost; they account it blasphemy in any one to contradict their idea. If you tell them that God made the world out of something, they will call you a fool. But I am learned, and know more than all the world put together. The Holy Ghost does, anyhow, and he is within me, and comprehends more than all the world; and I will associate myself with him.
Meaning of the Word Create
You ask the learned doctors why they say the world was made out of nothing, and they will answer, "Doesn't the Bible say He created the world?" And they infer, from the word create, that it must have been made out of nothing. Now, the word create came from the word baurau, which does not mean to create out of nothing; it means to organize; the same as a man would organize materials and build a ship. Hence we infer that God had materials to organize the world out of chaos—chaotic matter, which is element, and in which dwells all the glory. Element had an existence from the time He had. The pure principles of element are principles which can never be destroyed; they may be organized and re-organized, but not destroyed. They had no beginning and can have no end.
The Immortal Intelligence
I have another subject to dwell upon, which is calculated to exalt man; but it is impossible for me to say much on this subject, I shall therefore just touch upon it, for time will not permit me to say all. It is associated with the subject of the resurrection of the dead,—namely, the soul—the mind of man—the immortal spirit. Where did it come from? All learned men and doctors of divinity say that God created it in the beginning; but it is not so: the very idea lessens man in my estimation. I do not believe the doctrine; I know better. Hear it, all ye ends of the world; for God has told me so; and if you don't believe me, it will not make the truth without effect. I will make a man appear a fool before I get through; if he does not believe it. I am going to tell of things more noble.
We say that God Himself is a self-existing being. Who told you so? It is correct enough; but how did it get into your heads? Who told you that man did not exist in like manner upon the same principles? Man does exist upon the same principles. God made a tabernacle and put a spirit into it, and it became a living soul. (Refers to the Bible.) How does it read in the Hebrew? It does not say in the Hebrew that God created the spirit of man. It says, "God made man out of the earth and put into him Adam's spirit, and so became a living body."
The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal [co-eternal] with God himself. I know that my testimony is true; hence, when I talk to these mourners, what have they lost? Their relatives and friends are only separated from their bodies for a short season: their spirits which existed with God have left the tabernacle of clay only for a little moment, as it were; and they now exist in a place where they converse together the same as we do on the earth,
I am dwelling on the immortality of the spirit of man. Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it has a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven.
I want to reason more on the spirit of man; for I am dwelling on the body and spirit of man—on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man—the immortal part, because it had no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the spirit of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself.
Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.
The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits.
This is good doctrine. It tastes good. I can taste the principles of eternal life, and so can you. They are given to me by the revelations of Jesus Christ; and I know that when I tell you these words of eternal life as they are given to me, you taste them, and I know that you believe them. You say honey is sweet, and so do I. I can also taste the spirit of eternal life. I know that it is good; and when I tell you of these things which were given me by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, you are bound to receive them as sweet, and rejoice more and more.
The Relation of Man to God
I want to talk more of the relation of man to God. I will open your eyes in relation to the dead. All things whatsoever God in his infinite wisdom has seen fit and proper to reveal to us, while we are dwelling in mortality, in regard to our mortal bodies, are revealed to us in the abstract, and independent of affinity of this mortal tabernacle, but are revealed to our spirits precisely as though we had no bodies at all; and those revelations which will save our spirits will save our bodies. God reveals them to us in view of no eternal dissolution of the body, or tabernacle. Hence the responsibility, the awful responsibility, that rests upon us in relation to our dead; for all the spirits who have not obeyed the Gospel in the flesh must either obey it in the spirit or be damned. Solemn thought!—dreadful thought! Is there nothing to be done?—no preparation—no salvation for our fathers and friends who have died without having had the opportunity to obey the decrees of the Son of Man? Would to God that I had forty days and nights in which to tell you all! I would let you know that I am not a "fallen prophet."
Our Greatest Responsibility
What promises are made in relation to the subject of the salvation of the dead? and what kind of characters are those who can be saved, although their bodies are mouldering and decaying in the grave? When His commandments teach us, it is in view of eternity; for we are looked upon by God as though we were in eternity; God dwells in eternity, and does not view things as we do.
The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our dead. The apostle says, "They without us cannot be made perfect"; for it is necessary that the sealing power should be in our hands to seal our children and our dead for the fulness of the dispensation of times—a dispensation to meet the promises made by Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world for the salvation of man.
Now, I will speak of them. I will meet Paul half way. I say to you, Paul, you cannot be perfect without us. It is necessary that those who are going before and those who come after us should have salvation in common with us; and thus hath God made it obligatory upon man. Hence, God said, "I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."
The Unpardonable Sin
I have a declaration to make as to the provisions which God hath made to suit the conditions of man—made from before the foundation of the world. What has Jesus said? All sins, and all blasphemies, and every transgression, except one, that man can be guilty of, may be forgiven; and there is a salvation for all men, either in this world or the world to come, who have not committed the unpardonable sin, there being a provision either in this world or the world of spirits. Hence God hath made a provision that every spirit in the eternal world can be ferreted out and saved unless he has committed that unpardonable sin which cannot be remitted to him either in this world or the world of spirits. God has wrought out a salvation for all men, unless they have committed a certain sin; and every man who has a friend in the eternal world can save him, unless he has committed the unpardonable sin. And so you can see how far you can be a savior.
A man cannot commit the unpardonable sin after the dissolution of the body, and there is a way possible for escape. Knowledge saves a man; and in the world of spirits no man can be exalted but by knowledge. So long as a man will not give heed to the commandments, he must abide without salvation. If a man has knowledge, he can be saved; although, if he has been guilty of great sins, he will be punished for them. But when he consents to obey the gospel, whether here or in the world of spirits, he is saved.
A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man.
I know the scriptures and understand them. I said, no man can commit the unpardonable sin after the dissolution of the body, nor in this life, until he receives the Holy Ghost; but they must do it in this world. Hence the salvation of Jesus Christ was wrought out for all men, in order to triumph over the devil; for if it did not catch him in one place, it would in another; for he stood up as a Savior. All will suffer until they obey Christ himself.
The contention in heaven was—Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved; and the devil said he would save them all, and laid his plans before the grand council, who gave their vote in favor of Jesus Christ. So the devil rose up in rebellion against God, and was cast down, with all who put up their heads for him. (Book of Moses—Pearl of Great Price, Ch. 4:1-4; Book of Abraham, Ch. 3:23-28.)
The Forgiveness of Sins
All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy. This is the case with many apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
When a man begins to be an enemy to this work, he hunts me, he seeks to kill me, and never ceases to thirst for my blood. He gets the spirit of the devil—the same spirit that they had who crucified the Lord of Life—the same spirit that sins against the Holy Ghost. You cannot save such persons; you cannot bring them to repentance; they make open war, like the devil, and awful is the consequence.
I advise all of you to be careful what you do, or you may by-and-by find out that you have been deceived. Stay yourselves; do not give way; don't make any hasty moves, you may be saved. If a spirit of bitterness is in you, don't be in haste. You may say, that man is a sinner. Well, if he repents, he shall be forgiven. Be cautious: await. When you find a spirit that wants bloodshed,—murder, the same is not of God, but is of the devil. Out of the abundance of the heart of man the mouth speaketh.
The best men bring forth the best works. The man who tells you words of life is the man who can save you. I warn you against all evil characters who sin against the Holy Ghost; for there is no redemption for them in this world nor in the world to come.
I could go back and trace every object of interest concerning the relationship of man to God, if I had time. I can enter into the mysteries; I can enter largely into the eternal worlds; for Jesus said, "In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." (John 14:2). Paul says, "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead." (1 Cor. 15:41). What have we to console us in relation to the dead? We have reason to have the greatest hope and consolation for our dead of any people on the earth; for we have seen them walk worthily in our midst, and seen them sink asleep in the arms of Jesus; and those who have died in the faith are now in the celestial kingdom of God. And hence is the glory of the sun.
You mourners have occasion to rejoice, speaking of the death of Elder King Follett; for your husband and father is gone to wait until the resurrection of the dead—until the perfection of the remainder; for at the resurrection your friend will rise in perfect felicity and go to celestial glory, while many must wait myriads of years before they can receive the like blessings; and your expectations and hopes are far above what man can conceive; for why has God revealed it to us?
I am authorized to say, by the authority of the Holy Ghost, that you have no occasion to fear; for he is gone to the home of the just. Don't mourn, don't weep. I know it by the testimony of the Holy Ghost that is within me; and you may wait for your friends to come forth to meet you in the morn of the celestial world.
Rejoice, O Israel! Your friends who have been murdered for the truth's sake in the persecutions shall triumph gloriously in the celestial world, while their murderers shall welter for ages in torment, even until they shall have paid the uttermost farthing. I say this for the benefit of strangers.
I have a father, brothers, children, and friends who have gone to a world of spirits. They are only absent for a moment. They are in the spirit, and we shall soon meet again. The time will soon arrive when the trumpet shall sound. When we depart, we shall hail our mothers, fathers, friends, and all whom we love, who have fallen asleep in Jesus. There will be no fear of mobs, persecutions, or malicious lawsuits and arrests; but it will be an eternity of felicity.
A question may be asked—"Will mothers have their children in eternity?" Yes! Yes! Mothers, you shall have your children; for they shall have eternal life, for their debt is paid. There is no damnation awaiting them for they are in the spirit. But as the child dies, so shall it rise from the dead, and be for ever living in the learning of God. It will never grow [in the grave]; it will still be the child, in the same precise form [when it rises] as it appeared before it died out of its mother's arms, but possessing all the intelligence of a God. Children dwell in the mansions of glory and exercise power, but appear in the same form as when on earth. Eternity is full of thrones, upon which dwell thousands of children, reigning on thrones of glory, with not one cubit added to their stature.
I will leave this subject here, and make a few remarks on the subject of baptism. The baptism of water, without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost attending it, is of no use; they are necessarily and inseparably connected. An individual must be born of water and the spirit in order to get into the kingdom of God. In the German, the text bears me out the same as the revelations which I have given and taught for the past fourteen years on that subject. I have the testimony to put in their teeth. My testimony has been true all the time. You will find it in the declaration of John the Baptist. (Reads from the German.) John says, "I baptize you with water, but when Jesus comes, who has the power (or keys) He shall administer the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost." Great God! Where is now all the sectarian world? And if this testimony is true, they are all damned as clearly as anathema can do it. I know the text is true. I call upon all you Germans who know that it is true to say, Eye. (Loud shouts of "Aye.")
Alexander Campbell, how are you going to save people with water alone? For John said his baptism was good for nothing without the baptism of Jesus Christ. "Therefore, not leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith towards God, of the doctrine of baptism, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit." (Heb. 6:1-3).
There is one God, one Father, one Jesus, one hope of our calling, one baptism. All these three baptisms only make one. Many talk of baptism not being essential to salvation; but this kind of teaching would lay the foundation of their damnation. I have the truth, and am at the defiance of the world to contradict me, if they can.
I have now preached a little Latin, a little Hebrew, Greek, and German; and I have fulfilled all. I am not so big a fool as many have taken me to be. The Germans know that I read the German correctly.
The Second Death
Hear it, all ye ends of the earth—all ye priests, all ye sinners, and all men. Repent! Repent! Obey the gospel. Turn to God; for your religion won't save you, and you will be damned. I do not say how long. There have been remarks made concerning all men being redeemed from hell; but I say that those who sin against the Holy Ghost cannot be forgiven in this world or in the world to come; they shall die the second death. Those who commit the unpardonable sin are doomed to Gnolom—to dwell in hell, worlds without end. As they concocted scenes of bloodshed in this world, so they shall rise to that resurrection which is as the lake of fire and brimstone. Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God; for God dwells in everlasting burnings and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as exquisite a torment as the lake of fire and brimstone.
I have intended my remarks for all, both rich and poor, bond and free, great and small. I have no enmity against any man. I love you all; but I hate some of your deeds. I am your best friend, and if persons miss their mark it is their own fault. If I reprove a man, and he hates me, he is a fool; for I love all men, especially these my brethren and sisters.
I rejoice in hearing the testimony of my aged friends. You don't know me; you never knew my heart. No man knows my history. I cannot tell it: I shall never undertake it. I don't blame any one for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I would not have believed it myself. I never did harm any man since I was born in the world. My voice is always for peace.
I cannot lie down until all my work is finished. I never think any evil, nor do anything to the harm of my fellow-man. When I am called by the trump of the archangel and weighed in the balance, you will all know me then. I add no more. God bless you all. Amen.
Comparing the 12 Apostles of the bible arrest records or reasons for arrest versus JS Jr. is like comparing apples to oranges. You know it to. What a lame comparison/argument. That's the best you can do?
The 12 Apostles were all arrested on various occassions for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ................and receiving lashes, stones, beheadings, crucifixions, etc..............for telling the Jewish and Roman authorities that they wouldn't quit preaching even after receiving jail and torture.
JS Jr. Breaks into a Newspaper office, attempts to destroy the paper's printing press for printing negative-Mormon stories about his friendly little band of followers and himself.
He is summarily jailed, and a mob comes to drag him out of jail and do who know's what............running him out of town on a rail, tar and feather him, or kill him...................Anyway this brave apostle of god gets hold of a hand gun snuck into his cell, and instead of going to his death like a true martyr he shoots it out with the crowd, and in doing so is fatally shot. Wow, what a testimony of trusting into God his life.
Now the Mormon rewriters of documented historical accounts on this episode that ended JS's life, have made him into a poor, poor, martyr.
Now put the testimonies of the biblical apostles against JS jr. Brigham Young.........and many of their close associates........and there is absolutely no comparison. What you observe is cowardice,,,,,,,,,a lack of true conviction to God...........and basically criminal behavior.
Also Mormon apologists..............Answer this one: Why did President Theodore Roosevelt demand that the American Flag be removed from the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City?
I think the Mormon episode of South Park did a pretty decent ~30 minute synopsis of much of the hokey things around the Mormon religion... Smith was a pretty shady character
Ok, South Park? Really? The encyclopedia of all wisdom?
Nah, but they DO have a knack for deflating the ballons of the pompous and blow-hardly sorts, even at the risk of ritual beheading.
The Sanhedrin told Pilate that Jesus was causing a stir with the people by claiming to be the King of the Jews..............Then by saying that "Caesar is our only king", they put Pilate in a bind.
Pilate would not indict or complete the Jewish charges against Jesus of causing unrest, and or riotous mobs, as he/Pilate knew of no problems with Jesus in this area.
When Pilate asked Jesus if he was a King, He/Jesus answered in the affirmative..........He said His kingdom is not of this world..........
Pilate also told Jesus that he had the power of life or death over Jesus...............Jesus countered, "You could have no such power unless My Father granted it so.". I.E. this arrest, and trial was all God's plan............It was God's will that this would happen. Jesus prayed till drops of blood came out of the pores of his face and dripped to the ground. He travailed as He was fully human, yet He affirmed God's will at the end of the prayer with, "Thy will be done.".
The Father is the Gardner, Jesus is the root and main stalk, and trully born again believers are the branches that bear the fruit, as their individual lives are supplied by the root or stalk.
J.S. Jr. didn't "abide" in Jesus Christ...........His teachings, his life bear witness of this.
To be part of that divine vine, is to "abide" in Christ...........To abide in Christ is to have His life within. The Holy Spirit testifies in every true born again person's life that they are now God's property, and not their own. The Lordship of Christ is the natural desire of every believer, and the greatest fruits of that Spirit is Love. Not a sappy, syrupy love, but a love for the "lost", a love for one's enemy, or for those that sin against us. When one is saved by "grace" they have no bragging rights to their new identity in Christ. It is a gift, undeserved, yet the Father gives it, as His nature is one of passion, and love for His lost creation.
There has been but one sinless man since Adam and Eve's pre-fall. That is Jesus Christ. Big difference: Adam and Eve were made from the dust of earth, and God breathed life into that dust and they were made. Actually, Eve came from Adam's rib, but she was never the less created.
Christ the second Adam as Paul the Apostle calls Him, was perfect from before the foundations of the world or the universe. He is the Alpha and Omega, First and Last, the I AM.. Yes the same one who said "Tell them I AM sends you" to Moses.................and we know who that was........in the burning bush, don't we?
Peter, John, Matthew, Luke, Mark, James, Barnabus, Steven, Phillip, and on and on..........pro-claimed Jesus the Messiah, the I AM, God in the flesh.
""If you know Me" you know the Father"
22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That He lives!
23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father
24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God. (D&C 76:22-24)
So sad how Mormon humanistic and anti-biblical teaching has twisted the nature of Christ from what is clearly revealed in the bible to one of a myriad of Jesus's who have and will inhabit a myriad of other planets like our own, and be saviors of those planets.
Folks........I could swear that Mormon theology came from George Lucas..................It would fill the theaters................ Picture this.........go to heaven and have sex sex sex, with fair Mormon maidens and beget zillions of little spirit babies...............And these little spirit babies will get the call to come to earth and become some humans in-womb child. Ain't that just beautiful, Hollywoodish...........interpretation of the bible?
Mohammed offers 77 fresh usda choice/prime virgins for good Muslims.............Joseph Smith Jr. and his concocted religion offer "Cellestial Sex" to every diceased, good, hard working, good tithing, Mormon husband. Plus...........He can choose to raise or not raise his earthly Mormon wife from the dead.
Folks.........As said before, don't taste the meal, until you scratch the surface and read the real recipe. The LDS church is built upon one anti-biblical stance upon another. Don't be fooled by their American flag, Apple Pie, monogonous marriage theme........and Family home evenings..............It's all a big old veil covering the dubious ones they venerate as "true" latter day prophets.
King Follet Funeral Sermon speach by your prophet..............Care to elaborate Truthspeaker?
Avatar: Just cant get his or her's head out of the LDS sandbox. He/she will defend the church and ignore the obvious and go down with the Titanic..........and believe me...........Avatar........I really pray that you would take a big chance and look at literature other than what your elders tell you is ok.
We are duty bound to study, learn, and live by eternal principles.
While the inhabitants of the earth are bestowing all their ability, both mental and physical, upon perishable objects, those who profess to be Latter-day Saints, who have the privilege of receiving and understanding the principles of the holy gospel, are in duty bound to study and find out, and put in practice in their lives, those principles that are calculated to endure, and that tend to a continual increase in this, and in the world to come (DNW, 20 July 1854, 1).
Not only does the religion of Jesus Christ make the people acquainted with the things of God, and develop within them moral excellence and purity, but it holds out every encouragement and inducement possible, for them to increase in knowledge and intelligence, in every branch of mechanism, or in the arts and sciences, for all wisdom, and all the arts and sciences in the world are from God, and are designed for the good of his people (DBY, 247).
Every art and science known and studied by the children of men is comprised within the Gospel. Where did the knowledge come from which has enabled man to accomplish such great achievements in science and mechanism within the last few years? We know that knowledge is from God, but why do they not acknowledge him? Because they are blind to their own interests, they do not see and understand things as they are. Who taught men to chain the lightning? Did man unaided of himself discover that? No, he received the knowledge from the Supreme Being. From him, too, has every art and science proceeded, although the credit is given to this individual, and that individual. But where did they get the knowledge from, have they it in and of themselves? No, they must acknowledge that, if they cannot make one spear of grass grow, nor one hair white or black [see Matthew 5:36] without artificial aid, they are dependent upon the Supreme Being just the same as the poor and the ignorant. Where have we received the knowledge to construct the labor-saving machinery for which the present age is remarkable? From Heaven. Where have we received our knowledge of astronomy, or the power to make glasses to penetrate the immensity of space? From [God] has every astronomer, artist and mechanician that ever lived on the earth obtained his knowledge (DBY, 246).
The greatest difficulty we have to meet is what may be termed ignorance, or want of understanding in the people (DBY, 247).
The religion embraced by the Latter-day Saints, if only slightly understood, prompts them to search diligently after knowledge [see D&C 88:118]. There is no other people in existence more eager to see, hear, learn, and understand truth (DBY, 247).
Put forth your ability to learn as fast as you can, and gather all the strength of mind and principle of faith you possibly can, and then distribute your knowledge to the people (DBY, 247).
Let us train our minds until we delight in that which is good, lovely and holy, seeking continually after that intelligence which will enable us effectually to build up Zion, seeking to do the will of the Lord all the days of our lives, improving our minds in all scientific and mechanical knowledge, seeking diligently to understand the great design and plan of all created things, that we may know what to do with our lives and how to improve upon the facilities placed within our reach (DBY, 247).
We are called to grow in grace and knowledge for eternity.
This is our labor, our business, and our callingto grow in grace and in knowledge from day to day and from year to year (DBY, 248).
I shall not cease learning while I live, nor when I arrive in the spirit-world; but shall there learn with greater facility; and when I again receive my body, I shall learn a thousand times more in a thousand times less time; and then I do not mean to cease learning, but shall still continue my researches (DBY, 248).
We shall never see the time when we shall not need to be taught, nor when there will not be an object to be gained. I never expect to see the time that there will not be a superior power and a superior knowledge, and, consequently, incitements to further progress and further improvements (DBY, 248).
Could we live to the age of Methuselah and spend our lives in searching after the principles of eternal life, we would find, when one eternity had passed to us, that we had been but children thus far, babies just commencing to learn the things which pertain to the eternities of the Gods (DBY, 249).
We might ask, when shall we cease to learn? I will give you my opinion about it: never, never (DBY, 249).
Experience has taught us that it requires time to acquire certain branches of mechanism, also principles and ideas that we wish to become masters of. The closer people apply their minds to any correct purpose the faster they can grow and increase in the knowledge of the truth. When they learn to master their feelings, they can soon learn to master their reflections and thoughts in the degree requisite for attaining the objects they are seeking. But while they yield to a feeling or spirit that distracts their minds from a subject they wish to study and learn, so long they will never gain the mastery of their minds (DBY, 250).
A firm, unchangeable course of righteousness through life is what secures to a person true intelligence (DBY, 245).
We should educate ourselves and our children in the learning of the world and the things of God.
Teach the children, give them the learning of the world and the things of God; elevate their minds, that they may not only understand the earth we walk upon, but the air we breathe, the water we drink, and all the elements pertaining to the earth (DBY, 251).
See that your children are properly educated in the rudiments of their mother tongue, and then let them proceed to higher branches of learning; let them become more informed in every department of true and useful learning than their fathers are. When they have become well acquainted with their language, let them study other languages, and make themselves fully acquainted with the manners, customs, laws, governments and literature of other nations, peoples, and tongues. Let them also learn all the truth pertaining to the arts and sciences, and how to apply the same to their temporal wants. Let them study things that are upon the earth, that are in the earth, and that are in the heavens (DBY, 252).
Every accomplishment, every polished grace, every useful attainment in mathematics, music, and in all science and art belongs to the Saints, and they should avail themselves as expeditiously as possible of the wealth of knowledge the sciences offer to every diligent and persevering scholar (DBY, 252).
I am happy to see our children engaged in the study and practice of music. Let them be educated in every useful branch of learning, for we, as a people, have in the future to excel the nations of the earth in religion, science and philosophy (DBY, 256).
There are hundreds of young men here who can go to school, which is far better than to waste their time. Study languages, get knowledge and understanding; and while doing this, get wisdom from God, and forget it not, and learn how to apply it, that you may be good with it all the days of your lives (DBY, 252).
Go to school and study. I want to have schools to entertain the minds of the people and draw them out to learn the arts and sciences. Send the old children to school, and the young ones also; there is nothing I would like better than to learn chemistry, botany, geology, and mineralogy, so that I could tell what I walk on, the properties of the air I breathe, what I drink, etc. (DBY, 253).
We should be a people of profound learning.
We should be a people of profound learning pertaining to the things of the world. We should be familiar with the various languages, for we wish to send missionaries to the different nations and to the islands of the sea. We wish missionaries who may go to France to be able to speak the French language fluently, and those who may go to Germany, Italy, Spain, and so on to all nations, to be familiar with the languages of those nations (DBY, 254).
We also wish them to understand the geography, habits, customs, and laws of nations and kingdoms. This is recommended in the revelations given to us [see D&C 88:7880; 93:53]. In them we are taught to study the best books, that we may become as well acquainted with the geography of the world as we are with our gardens, and as families with the peopleso far at least as they are portrayed in printas we are with our families and neighbors (DBY, 25455).
We are in a great school, and we should be diligent to learn, and continue to store up the knowledge of heaven and of earth, and read good books, although I cannot say that I would recommend the reading of all books, for it is not all books which are good. Read good books, and extract from them wisdom and understanding as much as you possibly can, aided by the Spirit of God (DBY, 248).
I would advise you to read books that are worth reading; read reliable history, and search wisdom out of the best books you can procure (DBY, 256).
How gladly would we understand every principle pertaining to science and art, and become thoroughly acquainted with every intricate operation of nature, and with all the chemical changes that are constantly going on around us! How delightful this would be, and what a boundless field of truth and power is open for us to explore! We are only just approaching the shores of the vast ocean of information that pertains to this physical world, to say nothing of that which pertains to the heavens, to angels and celestial beings, to the place of their habitation, to the manner of their life, and their progress to still higher degrees of perfection (DBY, 255).
The revelations of the Lord Jesus Christ to the human family are all the learning we can ever possess. Much of this knowledge is obtained from books which have been written by men who have contemplated deeply on various subjects, and the revelations of Jesus have opened their minds, whether they knew it or acknowledged it or not (DBY, 25758).
Our religion will not clash with or contradict the facts of science in any particular. You may take geology, for instance, and it is true science; not that I would say for a moment that all the conclusions and deductions of its professors are true, but its leading principles are; they are factsthey are eternal; and to assert that the Lord made this earth out of nothing is preposterous and impossible [see Abraham 3:24; D&C 131:7]. God never made something out of nothing; it is not in the economy or law by which the worlds were, are, or will exist. There is an eternity before us, and it is full of matter; and if we but understand enough of the Lord and his ways we would say that he took of this matter and organized this earth from it. How long it has been organized it is not for me to say, and I do not care anything about it. If we understood the process of creation there would be no mystery about it, it would be all reasonable and plain, for there is no mystery except to the ignorant. This we know by what we have learned naturally since we have had a being on the earth (DBY, 25859).
We have the privilege of searching out the wisdom of God.
It is the privilege of man to search out the wisdom of God pertaining to the earth and the heavens. Real wisdom is a real pleasure; real wisdom, prudence, and understanding, is a real comfort (DBY, 262).
The person that applies his heart to wisdom, and seeks diligently for understanding, will grow to be mighty in Israel (DBY, 261).
Let wisdom be sown in your hearts, and let it bring forth a bountiful harvest. It is more profitable to you than all the gold and silver and other riches of earth. Let wisdom spring up in your hearts, and cultivate it (DBY, 261).
As we prepare materials to build a house or temple, so man can prepare himself for the reception of eternal wisdom. We go where the materials for a house are, and prepare them to answer our purpose; so we may go to where eternal wisdom dwells and there diligently seek to possess it, for its price is above rubies [see Job 28:18] (DBY, 26162).
After all our endeavors to obtain wisdom from the best books, etc, there still remains an open fountain for all; If any man lack wisdom let him ask of God [see James 1:5] (DBY, 261).
If you live so as to possess the Holy Ghost, you will at once see the difference between the wisdom of men and the wisdom of God, and you can weigh things in the balance and estimate them at their true worth (DBY, 323).
Let every Latter-day Saint constantly practice himself in the performance of every good word and work, to acknowledge God to be God, to be strict in keeping his laws, and learning to love mercy, eschew [avoid] evil and delight in constantly doing that which is pleasing to God (DBY, 261).
There is only one Source whence men obtain wisdom, and that is God, the Fountain of all wisdom; and though men may claim to make their discoveries by their own wisdom, by meditation and reflection, they are indebted to our Father in Heaven for all (DBY, 25960).
(Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young)
Please read any definition of a cult, and a cult member. It is an eye opener. Just type it in any good search engine.
I think the Mormon episode of South Park did a pretty decent ~30 minute synopsis of much of the hokey things around the Mormon religion... Smith was a pretty shady character
Ok, South Park? Really? The encyclopedia of all wisdom?
Nah, but they DO have a knack for deflating the ballons of the pompous and blow-hardly sorts, even at the risk of ritual beheading.
"Cult" has meaning. Used incorrectly, it has no meaning.
May bumpage.
Truth, I believe in keeping faith simple. The simpler the better. The more you bring religion into it, the more problems you have with misunderstanding and ridicule.
Take for instance the Mormon position that the American Indians were descended from Jewish tribes that immigrated to this continent in two migrations. One across the Atlantic and one across the Pacific under water.
I have fun with that with my Mormon friends and ask them about where the Nuclear Power submarines came from that allowed the Jews/Indians to breath underwater with Oxygen generators... They always have trouble with that one.
Then I ask about all the great cities that the Indians had in the New World, but none of them correspond with the actual locations of archeological digs. I had one good Mormon friend who could only theorize that there were tremendous earthquakes just before Columbus came to the Americas and that those earthquakes moved all of the Indian cities around, as much as five hundred miles in some cases. Do you realize what tremendous tidal waves that would have created? That would have wiped all of the sea ports off of the surface of the earth, yet no tidal waves were reported.
Then add to that the fact that the Indians do not have any Jewish DNA Not a drop in the pure natives of this land. There was a Jewish mountain man by the name of Goldberger who impregnated over 100 Indian women in the late 1700's and early 1800's, but all of his DNA was documented in the Cherokee and various Plaines Indian tribes. What a man!
Nope, dude, it is better that you guys stress that God does forgive sin and that all we have to do to be forgiven is repent and ask for forgiveness and then ask for guidance. IF you teach that, most people can not disagree with you and you will have many followers. That can be a very good thing in this day and age.
all religions are bad shit insane when trying to defend tehir myths. never understood why scientologists get so much flack when a billion christians worship a zombie
"Cult" has meaning. Used incorrectly, it has no meaning.
May bumpage.
Unfortunately, people have no problem changing the definition to fit the circumstance. Much like they will change the definition of Christian or any other word for an agenda.
all religions are bad shit insane when trying to defend tehir myths. never understood why scientologists get so much flack when a billion christians worship a zombie
A zombie? That has to go down as one of the most absurd statements on this thread, and there have been some doozies.
