The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

This thread is a self-righting ship. However far off the track we go. We always come back.

 

[Truthspeaker]

In that you would be wrong. The general public understands your false religion quite well and simply refuses to be sucked in by the lies.

Thanks for making his point

Sorry friend but I made my own point- The general public understands your false religion quite well and simply refuses to be sucked in by the lies.

Which lies are you referring to?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Why are so many Mormons Cracker-Ass-Crackers?...



peace...

I do believe your question is a misinformed one. If there were such a thing as a bad question, this would be the perfect example. Here are the demographic statistics as of 2000. These numbers have since grown more "ethnic".
Percentage of Mormon population in their countries.

Tonga: 32.0%
Samoa: 25.0%
American Samoa: 25.0%
Niue: 15.0%
Kiribati: 6.0%
Tahiti: 6.0%
Cook Islands: 5.0%
Marshall Islands: 4.0%
Chile: 2.5%
Palau: 2.0%
USA: 1.9%
Uruguay: 1.8%
New Zealand: 1.5%
Guatemala: 1.3%
Honduras: 1.2%
Bolivia: 1.1%
Ecuador: 1.1%
Peru: 1.1%
Belize: 1.1%



USA: 4,900,000
Mexico: 800,000
Brazil: 650,000
Chile: 400,000
Philippines: 389,000
Peru: 300,000
Argentina: 282,000
United Kingdom: 180,000
Guatemala: 166,000
Canada: 151,000


These stats do not include the 500,000 members of the church of African descent.

 

[nraforlife]

Thanks for making his point

Sorry friend but I made my own point- The general public understands your false religion quite well and simply refuses to be sucked in by the lies.

Which lies are you referring to?

The whopper that the BOM came from G-d to that crystal gazing con-artist Joe Smith would be a good place to start.

 

[Eightball]

Sorry friend but I made my own point- The general public understands your false religion quite well and simply refuses to be sucked in by the lies.

Which lies are you referring to?

The whopper that the BOM came from G-d to that crystal gazing con-artist Joe Smith would be a good place to start.

Been trying to ram that point home to "Truthspeaker" for months......

He can't see the difference between true biblical prophets, and J.S. Jr............Actually he/Truth, can't discern the difference with any and all LDS prophets up to the present.

NRA: When you explore the teachings/doctrines of the Mormon church, it is such a convoluted mess of contradictions, and weird stuff. It is so unbiblical in so many ways.

They don't want to face the facts about the BOM not being archeologically validated in it's recordings of North and South American accounts.

They think that J.S. Jr. is a martyr, when he was a criminal. They only accepty their churchs' account of his death, and totally ignore, press accounts from Illinois that that contradict their account.

Even the Christian church puts a lot of creedence in the Jewish historical writer, Josephus, who lived during the time of shortly after the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. Josephus was not a Christian, but his accounts parallel the N.T..

Dead Sea Scrolls: This is the most fantastic find!

A complete book of Isaiah was found and partial manuscripts of all the other O.T. books except for Ester.

In every case the nowaday translations when compared to the Dead Sea manuscripts indicate that God has omnipotently protected His "inspired" Word to this present day.

The Mormons claim that the bible is corrupted in many areas as man re-translating over the last few thousand years has changed the original message from God to man. Thus we needed it straightened out through Joseph Smith's encounter with the angel Moroni.

People wonder where the Ark of the Convenant is, as it was taken from the temple thousands of years ago...............The Mormons can't even find their holy gold plates that only date back to the early 1800's? The Jews were able to keep the Ark for much longer and only lost it through plunder by enemies, and punishment from God for their disobedience. Besides that, the Ark isn't necessary, as the "Perfect", Jesus Christ is the fullfillment of the Law(Hebrews/N.T.) in every way.

The Mormon church is classified as a "cult" by mainstream biblical Christianity. How to the Mormons respond? They are "victims" like their first prophet, J.S. Jr.. Everytime they come to the door of a house all primmed-up with white dress shirt, black slacks, and neck tie, they have already mentally prepared themselves as "victims" of non-Mormon mankind. If you counter their claims with biblical facts they take the victim's route of course with you. Your hopeless, as they have the truth.

Truthspeaker.........the moniker used by this LDS member is the epitome of exuded "pride".............Who or what true Christian, would take that moniker?

Here is one reason. The Mormon does not understand the unlying reason that folks come to Christ for salvation.............GRACE! Yes, grace. Grace=unmerited favor of God upon the helpless sinner, or fallen man.

The very work of grace produces humility, humbleness, and gratitude in the "true" Christian.

So when a biblical Christian like myself calls to their attention this dicotomy, I'm accused of being prideful, arrogant, mean-spirited, etc...... That's the Mormon's "fall-back" defense. They just don't understand the underlying principles of God's grace.

They bought into a humanistic based religiosity, that promises "celestial sex" in heaven...................as a reward for being good, works-based, God fearing people.

One might even ask about the inequality of the man-woman relationship in the Mormon doctrine........................

How is it that the husband in a Mormon marriage carries the rights or responsibility to raise or "not raise" his earthly wife to a heavenly state?

Also there is a distinct parallet between the crazy teachings of Scientology, and Mormonism in the area of "progression" of the human species. Both belief systems believe that earth is just one of many stopping points where God or some race of human beings has taken-up residence.

Scientologists believe that us/mankind actually came from other planets, and have just colonized this one called "earth". Mormons believe that there are many Jesus'es or saviors for a myriad of planets. I.E.. We are just one of many inhabited planets where a savior was sent to save that race or species.

Also, take note that the Mormon doctrine teaches that God "impregnated" Mary............in order for Jesus to be His seed and savior for the earth's race of human beings.

Also ask Mormons about "hell". They also have skewed that.
******
All in all, Mormonism has grown by leaps and bounds because it is a human inspired religion that meets the needs of the "carnal" nature or side of man. The "Spiritual" man who is indwelt with God the Holy Spirit, can see right through this false belief system.

It is works based to the hilt. They/Mormons deny it, but they "know" that they go door to door in order to please their god, and also to attain to higher stature within their religions ranks. Elders hold an iron sway over lesser members. Members are encouraged to "not" do independent study of the bible without "oversight" from an elder or more "mature" Mormon. Why? Because "independent" study of the bible might reveal the hypocrisy and outright untruths that have been taught by elders to young/new members.

Why don't the elders tell about the celestial sex after death, or the Priesthoods........that Christ did away with at Calvary when He said, "It is finished!", and the curtain in the Holy temple was rent in two, and sinful man was given access to the Holy of Holies.........via Christ's atoning, death on the cross.

Ask a Mormon why the Cross is not venerated as the symbol of the Christians victory over death and sin, and the gateway to eternal life?

Instead they have the angel Moroni blowing a trumpet on top of their temples.

The cross is an abomination to fallen man, but represents everything to the true Christian. The cross is not a pretty thing, but because of it, our God, Lord, and Savior gave access to the Holy of Holies for all mankind......................the Priesthood was abolished.............Now every true Christian is a royal priest, and a royal ambassador to lost mankind.
*****
Bottom line: Cult members are brainwashed. But to be brainwashed, you must accept what you hear, because you "want" it to be that way. The bible doesn't present itself to mankind in a way that man "enjoys". In fact man tends to run from the bible, as it presents man in a most undignified way............and if acknowledged, it humbles man to the point of grief, repentance, and then hopefully a reaching-out for salvation through Jesus Christ.

The Mormons on the surface talk the talk, and appear to walk the walk, but scratch the veneer of their church with the bible in your right hand as a compass and you will see the unGodlieness of it's teachings.

 

[JakeStarkey]

nra4life and 8ball, why play the game. All religion comes down to faith not critical reasoning. That's why Jefferson cut so much out of his redaction of the Bible. In my opinion, I think Jesus is my Lord, I believe the Holy Bible is not His literal word, and I don't believe that JS Jr is a prophet. Give others the same right to believe. If TruthSpeaker were on your doorstep proslytyzing with a BoM in one hand and a couple of Danites at hand, that would be another matter, of course.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Sorry friend but I made my own point- The general public understands your false religion quite well and simply refuses to be sucked in by the lies.

Which lies are you referring to?

The whopper that the BOM came from G-d to that crystal gazing con-artist Joe Smith would be a good place to start.

You see you don't even understand what lies you're talking about:
1. Joseph never gazed at any crystals
2. The Book of Mormon was never claimed to have come from Joseph.

there. Two misconceptions already dealt with

 

[Truthspeaker]

nra4life and 8ball, why play the game. All religion comes down to faith not critical reasoning. That's why Jefferson cut so much out of his redaction of the Bible. In my opinion, I think Jesus is my Lord, I believe the Holy Bible is not His literal word, and I don't believe that JS Jr is a prophet. Give others the same right to believe. If TruthSpeaker were on your doorstep proslytyzing with a BoM in one hand and a couple of Danites at hand, that would be another matter, of course.

I actually appreciate that statement. My sentiments exactly. Especially since I'd never show up on his door, leastaways not with any Danites to boot. Not that there's many of those dinosaurs left.

Jesus is also my Lord. I believe men should worship according to the dictates of their own conscience. I am doing so myself.

 

[nraforlife]

Which lies are you referring to?

The whopper that the BOM came from G-d to that crystal gazing con-artist Joe Smith would be a good place to start.

You see you don't even understand what lies you're talking about:
1. Joseph never gazed at any crystals
2. The Book of Mormon was never claimed to have come from Joseph.

there. Two misconceptions already dealt with

Have a real c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-o-n problem don'tcha or maybe you are just being obscurant.

crystal gazing, seer stone using same thing & its how yer boy Joey claimed to translate the BOM. As to yer point two its not what I said and you know it unless you are dummer than a rock.

BTW just how did Joey manage to fetch around the hundreds of pounds which the gold tablets must have weighed, eh?

 

[nraforlife]

BTW what is the deal with mormons and sanctuary cities for illegals in Utah? Are you people REALLY that disloyal to the USA.

 

[JakeStarkey]

nraforlife, what is up with you, with your bitter hatefulness? I am not any sort of Mormon, but you are being nonsensical. You are the one who hates the first amendment with your bitter and hateful attacks.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The whopper that the BOM came from G-d to that crystal gazing con-artist Joe Smith would be a good place to start.

You see you don't even understand what lies you're talking about:
1. Joseph never gazed at any crystals
2. The Book of Mormon was never claimed to have come from Joseph.

there. Two misconceptions already dealt with

Have a real c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-o-n problem don'tcha or maybe you are just being obscurant.

crystal gazing, seer stone using same thing & its how yer boy Joey claimed to translate the BOM. As to yer point two its not what I said and you know it unless you are dummer than a rock.

BTW just how did Joey manage to fetch around the hundreds of pounds which the gold tablets must have weighed, eh?

First of all the "Gold" plates were only rumored to have been gold. The only description given by any of the witnesses was that the plates "had the appearance" of gold. The plates are likely to have been a gold-like substance called tumbaga, which is %40 percent the weight of gold. The book of mormon only describes the plates as plates of "ore". Nowhere did it say gold. The phrase "gold plates" is used to describe it's appearance more than it's elemental makeup.
Furthermore they still could have been made of gold. Lets say they were made of gold. The hundreds of pounds people think of based on the dimensions Joseph gave of 4x6x6 inches wide, thick and long are still inaccurate because they are assessing that to a solid gold block of the same size.

The record was anything but a solid block. It was sheets of metal that created space, furthur reducing the weight. They were also engraved sheets and not solid sheets, further reducing the weight. Also overlooked is the fact that although heavy, it was very small and much easier to lift.

Furthermore don't forget that Joseph Smith was the strongest guy in town. You think God wouldn't properly equip a servant of his to perform a task?

Furthermore one who truly believes in God believes in miracles. If God could endow Samson with the strength to kill a lion with his bare hands, and perform other herculean feats, what's the problem with providing Joseph the strength to lift the plates? Do you see my logic?

I'm also glad you clarified that Joseph merely translated the plates instead of being the originator of them You can hoodwink others but not me.

Class dismissed.

 

[Truthspeaker]

BTW what is the deal with mormons and sanctuary cities for illegals in Utah? Are you people REALLY that disloyal to the USA.

I have no idea what you're talking about. While you're at it, why don't you attack the government of California who are FAR more guilty in this matter.

 

[DiamondDave]

I think the Mormon episode of South Park did a pretty decent ~30 minute synopsis of much of the hokey things around the Mormon religion... Smith was a pretty shady character

 

[Avatar4321]

Why are so many Mormons Cracker-Ass-Crackers?...



peace...

LoL. I don't even know what you are talking about mal

 

[Avatar4321]

I think you're correct that he exaggerates on purpose. I still think he does so for ratings. Even so, he has quite a following of people who take what he says at face value.

But, that's an aside. I'm afraid I'm risking derailing your thread.

I think he points out the extremes to make a point about the consequences of what we face because that's simply who he is. But I'd like someone to find out what he is lying about. Misinformed maybe. Saying something incorrectly, maybe. I don't think he or anyone else is perfect, but I dont think Glenn gets up and delibrately lies to people. Ive talked to him too many times off air to think that.

 

[Avatar4321]

Sorry friend but I made my own point- The general public understands your false religion quite well and simply refuses to be sucked in by the lies.

Which lies are you referring to?

The whopper that the BOM came from G-d to that crystal gazing con-artist Joe Smith would be a good place to start.

Have you read the Book of Mormon?

 

[Avatar4321]

The whopper that the BOM came from G-d to that crystal gazing con-artist Joe Smith would be a good place to start.

You see you don't even understand what lies you're talking about:
1. Joseph never gazed at any crystals
2. The Book of Mormon was never claimed to have come from Joseph.

there. Two misconceptions already dealt with

Have a real c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-o-n problem don'tcha or maybe you are just being obscurant.

crystal gazing, seer stone using same thing & its how yer boy Joey claimed to translate the BOM. As to yer point two its not what I said and you know it unless you are dummer than a rock.

BTW just how did Joey manage to fetch around the hundreds of pounds which the gold tablets must have weighed, eh?

That's fairly simple. Gold is a color.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think the Mormon episode of South Park did a pretty decent ~30 minute synopsis of much of the hokey things around the Mormon religion... Smith was a pretty shady character

Having studied Joseph Smith very closely, I don't see how he is anyway a Shady character. I know there have been many claims to the contrary, but the evidence just isn't there.

He is supposedly a con artist that gets nothing but hardship for his troubles. He is supposedly brilliant yet stupid. He supposedly selfifsh yet so often gives up his own time and property to help others. The accusations and his actions just don't match up.

Perhaps if you had some specific instance we could discuss more indepth. But my studies just don't show anything that shady about him.

 

[Eightball]

nra4life and 8ball, why play the game. All religion comes down to faith not critical reasoning. That's why Jefferson cut so much out of his redaction of the Bible. In my opinion, I think Jesus is my Lord, I believe the Holy Bible is not His literal word, and I don't believe that JS Jr is a prophet. Give others the same right to believe. If TruthSpeaker were on your doorstep proslytyzing with a BoM in one hand and a couple of Danites at hand, that would be another matter, of course.

JakeStarkey: I highly venerate Jefferson.......but in the area of biblical/spiritual understanding knowledge..........He created an abomination..........when speaking of his infamous "Jeffersonian Bible".

Jefferson took the good old King James that even the Mormons will use when proselytizing Christians, and did a major "cut/paste" job on any bit of bible scripture that he didn't agree with........Actually is was more like, he did a "job" on any scripture that presented man as a sinner. Jefferson, with big letter "P" pride, proceedced to play God, and change the bible to his comfort zone/liking. That's basically it.

It was not an intellectual pursuit of truth, but an attempt to quench or muffle God's assessment of man as a fallen Adamic creature in need of Christ's attoning work at Calvary.
*****
The Jeffersonian bible is not different from the Jehovah's Witnesses "New World Translations" that has conveniently, and suspiciously removed many references in the N.T. to Jesus being God, in the flesh. For instance, the impact of the famous John Chapter 1 verse 1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.".

The Jehovah's Witness bible has changed that verse to, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with Jehovah, and the word was "a" god.'.
******

The Mormons, deny will say, sure Jesus is God........but one with God........as in one God...........No! They refute the trinitarian aspect of the Godhead because they don't understand the physical/anotomical/mind blowing chemistry of how Jesus can be God, God the Spirit can be God, and God the Father can be God, and all can be one in the same.

This is where J.S. Jr. along with follow prophets, and other Christian cults, and non-Christian cults have attempted to bring the Godhead down to what their "finite" human minds can understand......

So we have many gods in Mormonism............Makes sense.........but the bible disagree's vehemently. No, the word trinity is not in the bible. It is a word used to describe the best man can of the mysterious makeup of the Godhead, that expresses itself in three distinct personality/forms, but all our in unison or agreement of thought, choice, direction, etc..
*****
Now we have Thomas Jefferson........Born April 13th.........What a statesman! What a great president! What a man of all kinds of talents. One of the best silversmiths of his time...........Actually his father, was a good silversmith to, and actually Jefferson Jr. apprenticed under his dad.

Great men who do great things for humanity and for the world........in unselfishness, and compassion..............doesn't mean they have a ticket to Paradise with God.............It just means they are good people. God weighs man ultimately on another scale, that trumps "great works on earth". He/God judges how man deals with His Son, Jesus. It's as clear as that. There is no grey ground when it comes to man and God............The bridgework to a restored relationship with God is through one Person........His Son. His Son is the ultimate Passover Lamb............He is the end of human priesthoods........that were but a foreshadow of the real and eternal Priest............Jesus Christ.(Check Hebrews in the N.T.)

God's righteousness is a "gift", not a "reward", as Mormonism, and so many other cults of of Christian flavoring, have promoted.

One does not depend on visions, dreams, burning bosoms, to "confirm" if they have received God's truth. If one does, they open themselves to the realm of the great deceiver, Satan. He has access to our dreams, physical phenomena, our emotions, and minds, and can do an incredible job of faking the true God, when....................a seeker, or even a Christian doesn't rely first of all on the "manual", the Word of God........the bible.

Now Mormons say that the bible is not accurrate anymore. Why? Has this omnipotent God who stopped the sun, who parted the Red Sea, who smited armies..........some how become weak and anemic? Has this God of the O.T. become forgetful, and let His scripture become bastardized into untruths, and partial, uncomplete truths?

If the true God, has allowed that, then mankind is hopefully on his own.......as we can't trust this God to give us all we need to receive eternal life, and or a restored relationship with Him that was lost way back in Eden.

The Mormon religion like so many is based on an un-omnipotent Creator. This Mormon creator, couldn't protect his written, inspired message to mankind through the thousands of years. So naturally, we need a J.S. jr. type of religion to fill in the gaps, and the "uncomfortableness" of the repentance/salvation message, and the message of "grace" with a "works based" "reward" system of salvation.

Only manmade religions expect "works/reward" in order to reach some sort of relational goal with their creator.

Only one belief system gives all credit to the Creator, and assesses mankind accurately. Just one look at world or local news in convincing enough that man is not touched with Godly righteousness as a whole. The only redeeming or different aspects usually are stories in the back session of every paper..........Mother Teresa, Franklin Graham, Billy Sunday, George Mueller, John Wesley, Hannah Whitall Smith., Moody.....etc.etc........Folks that taught a and called men, women and children to repentance, and salvation through Jesus Christ.

The "evidence" demands a verdict. Jefferson, avoided the obvious as it apparently was too painful, and too unintellectual to comprehend or to admit.