The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

Agree 100% that God created us

Which god:
Aphrodite
Apollo
Apsu
Ares
Artemis
Asclepius
Athena
Athirat
Athtart
Atlas
Baal
Ba Xian
Bacchus
Balder
Bast
Bellona
Bergelmir
Bes
Bixia Yuanjin
Bragi
Brahma
Brigit
Camaxtli
Ceres
Ceridwen
Cernunnos
Chac
Chalchiuhtlicue
Charun
Chemosh
Cheng-huang
Cybele
Dagon
Damkina (Dumkina)
Davlin
Dawn
Demeter
Diana
Di Cang
Dionysus

Anywho you get the point?

I'll simplifiy this for you. Jehovah. which one do you think?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Avatar, you say you started out not knowing if there was a god...
So what was it that turned the lightbulb on in your head so to speak, about suddenly being convinced that your god was real after all? And why one of the whackiest branches of religion?

It wasn't one lightbulb moment. It was lots of little light bulb moments. It was the way i preferred my life to the alternative. It seemed to make sense in my heart, and sense in my brain just as much. I didn't see things as wacky. Truth is often stranger than fiction so knowing that ahead of time I decided not to blindly dismiss anything without investigating it first.
That goes beyond religion.

When questions come that I don't know the answer to, I don't jump to conclusions, I seek answers and I usually get them.

Avatar, you change your name to truthspeaker? If not, t-dude why don't you stfu.

I know you're trying to make us all think you're Satan with your avatar, but it's not a good look for you and it's not believable.

 

[Truthspeaker]

A mormon living in San Fran?

Sounds like a Black Gay couple in Alabama.

Or a Gay Apache Indian living in Nepal? Yeah, something like that. Who knew?

 

[Adamo]

ok T-boner, what were those little lightbulb moments? Give me 5.

 

[Truthspeaker]

ok T-boner, what were those little lightbulb moments? Give me 5.

Sorry Adamo, I don't feel like telling you while you're being a jackass.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Since the 1967 appearance of "What the Church Means to People Like Me," the Liahona-Iron Rod symbolism has taken on a life of its own. In addition to republications in periodicals and anthologies, hundreds of reprints and copies of the article have found their way into circulation, many through Brigham Young University's bookstore and classes and the LDS institute and seminary system. It was quoted in Gottlieb's and Wiley's America's Saints and figures prominently in the conclusion of Arrington's and Bitton's The Mormon Experience.1 Its most sigmficant contribution—to the extent that it went beyond providing handy labels—was to help make the Liahonas more accepting of themselves. As one correspondent succinctly put it to me: 'You'll never know how delighted I was to find out that I have a nice name like Liahona.…I just wasn't aware that there were so many of us who questioned.'"
History & Faith: Liahona and Iron Rod Revisited

 

[Adamo]

ok T-boner, what were those little lightbulb moments? Give me 5.

Sorry Adamo, I don't feel like telling you while you're being a jackass.

Awwww, c'mon. Purdy pleeeeeeze!

 

[Avatar4321]

Been gone alot last couple days.

To answer your question: The only way to know things of the Spirit is through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Eightball]

Been gone alot last couple days.

To answer your question: The only way to know things of the Spirit is through the Holy Spirit.

Ok. Now please explain how you "know" that the one communicating with you is the Holy Spirit, and not a demonic spirit?

Where do you go to for validation that it's the Holy Spirit, and not a deceiving spirit?

Do you just depend on your "intuition", and or "feelings" that this is the Holy Spirit?

On this board, both you and Truthspeaker always revert back to the "heart"..........or your "heart" telling you that a communique' is from God/Holy Spirit.

The bible says that man's heart is deceitful, and cannot be trusted.

So how do you know your "heart" or "intuition" or "feelings" are steering you into the "truth"?

Where's the ultimate compass or "bedrock" to rely on when you think God is talking to you via the alleged Holy Spirit?

Our nation has what is called a "Constitution". Though in the last and recent century, it has been ignored, watered-down, etc., it is the "compass" that is supposed to ultimately guide this great nation.

Where is the compass or Constitution, that your religion relys on to make sure it isn't going astray from God's truth?

 

[Adamo]

Been gone alot last couple days.

To answer your question: The only way to know things of the Spirit is through the Holy Spirit.

Ok. Now please explain how you "know" that the one communicating with you is the Holy Spirit, and not a demonic spirit?

Where do you go to for validation that it's the Holy Spirit, and not a deceiving spirit?

Do you just depend on your "intuition", and or "feelings" that this is the Holy Spirit?

On this board, both you and Truthspeaker always revert back to the "heart"..........or your "heart" telling you that a communique' is from God/Holy Spirit.

The bible says that man's heart is deceitful, and cannot be trusted.

So how do you know your "heart" or "intuition" or "feelings" are steering you into the "truth"?

Where's the ultimate compass or "bedrock" to rely on when you think God is talking to you via the alleged Holy Spirit?

Our nation has what is called a "Constitution". Though in the last and recent century, it has been ignored, watered-down, etc., it is the "compass" that is supposed to ultimately guide this great nation.

Where is the compass or Constitution, that your religion relys on to make sure it isn't going astray from God's truth?

Dude's hearing voices and you're asking him how he knows that it's the right voice?

 

[Eightball]

Avatar/Truthspeaker:

Ok. Now please explain how you "know" that the one communicating with you is the Holy Spirit, and not a demonic spirit?

Where do you go to for validation that it's the Holy Spirit, and not a deceiving spirit?

Do you just depend on your "intuition", and or "feelings" that you know it's the Holy Spirit?

On this board, both you and Truthspeaker always revert back to the "heart"..........or your "heart" telling you that a communique' is from God/Holy Spirit.

The bible says that man's heart is deceitful, and cannot be trusted.

Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

So how do you know your "heart" or "intuition" or "feelings" are steering you into the "truth"?

Where's the ultimate compass or "bedrock" to rely on when you think God is talking to you via the alleged Holy Spirit?

Our nation has what is called a "Constitution". Though in the last and recent century, it has been ignored, watered-down, etc., it is the "compass" that is supposed to ultimately guide this great nation.

Where is the compass or Constitution, that your religion relys on to make sure it isn't going astray from God's truth?

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

Agree 100% that God created us

Which god:
Aphrodite
Apollo
Apsu
Ares
Artemis
Asclepius
Athena
Athirat
Athtart
Atlas
Baal
Ba Xian
Bacchus
Balder
Bast
Bellona
Bergelmir
Bes
Bixia Yuanjin
Bragi
Brahma
Brigit
Camaxtli
Ceres
Ceridwen
Cernunnos
Chac
Chalchiuhtlicue
Charun
Chemosh
Cheng-huang
Cybele
Dagon
Damkina (Dumkina)
Davlin
Dawn
Demeter
Diana
Di Cang
Dionysus

Anywho you get the point?

I'll simplifiy this for you. Jehovah. which one do you think?

But why just pick one, there are so many. i like Thor myself, so many gods and so little time...

 

[Skeptik]

Which god:
Aphrodite
Apollo
Apsu
Ares
Artemis
Asclepius
Athena
Athirat
Athtart
Atlas
Baal
Ba Xian
Bacchus
Balder
Bast
Bellona
Bergelmir
Bes
Bixia Yuanjin
Bragi
Brahma
Brigit
Camaxtli
Ceres
Ceridwen
Cernunnos
Chac
Chalchiuhtlicue
Charun
Chemosh
Cheng-huang
Cybele
Dagon
Damkina (Dumkina)
Davlin
Dawn
Demeter
Diana
Di Cang
Dionysus

Anywho you get the point?

I'll simplifiy this for you. Jehovah. which one do you think?

But why just pick one, there are so many. i like Thor myself, so many gods and so little time...

I favor Aphrodite myself, the goddess of love, beauty, and sexuality.

I kind of like love, beauty, and sexuality, don't you?

 

[Eightball]

Avatar/Truthspeaker:

Ok. Now please explain how you "know" that the one communicating with you is the Holy Spirit, and not a demonic spirit?

Where do you go to for validation that it's the Holy Spirit, and not a deceiving spirit?

Do you just depend on your "intuition", and or "feelings" that you know it's the Holy Spirit?

On this board, both you and Truthspeaker always revert back to the "heart"..........or your "heart" telling you that a communique' is from God/Holy Spirit.

The bible says that man's heart is deceitful, and cannot be trusted.

Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

So how do you know your "heart" or "intuition" or "feelings" are steering you into the "truth"?

Where's the ultimate compass or "bedrock" to rely on when you think God is talking to you via the alleged Holy Spirit?

Our nation has what is called a "Constitution". Though in the last and recent century, it has been ignored, watered-down, etc., it is the "compass" that is supposed to ultimately guide this great nation.

Where is the compass or Constitution, that your religion relys on to make sure it isn't going astray from God's truth?

 

[Truthspeaker]

8-Ball I've explained this dozens of times already. You should remember this by now. Paul talks about the difference between the fruits of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit. In Galatians 5:25 he says, "But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, temperance, goodness, meekness, faith. Against such there is no law.

After describing the opposites as the fruits of the flesh it is clear to me that if my heart feels any of those good things. It is a witness of the spirit of God to me, that what i am feeling or doing at that time, stands approved of God.

Yes the heart of man is weak. But that is only when the heart chooses to follow after the fruits of the flesh which are thus: Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(interesting that Paul mentions actions here, even if those people had confessed the christ with their lips. It doesn't seem to matter.)

So the heart is still useful. Our hearts are weak when left to ourselves. but our hearts are strong when under the influence of the Spirit of God. This cannot be denied without lying.

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

8-Ball I've explained this dozens of times already. You should remember this by now. Paul talks about the difference between the fruits of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit. In Galatians 5:25 he says, "But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, temperance, goodness, meekness, faith. Against such there is no law.

After describing the opposites as the fruits of the flesh it is clear to me that if my heart feels any of those good things. It is a witness of the spirit of God to me, that what i am feeling or doing at that time, stands approved of God.

Yes the heart of man is weak. But that is only when the heart chooses to follow after the fruits of the flesh which are thus: Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(interesting that Paul mentions actions here, even if those people had confessed the christ with their lips. It doesn't seem to matter.)

So the heart is still useful. Our hearts are weak when left to ourselves. but our hearts are strong when under the influence of the Spirit of God. This cannot be denied without lying.

Paul lived in the stone age, you really imagine he knew anything worth our consideration?

 

[Eightball]

Truthspeaker/Avatar:

So the heart is still useful. Our hearts are weak when left to ourselves. but our hearts are strong when under the influence of the Spirit of God

This does "not" answer my previous question.

"....when under the influence of the Spirit of God....."

My previous question raised this.............How, do you know "it" is the "Spirit of God" that is influencing you and not a demonic/false spirit that is working on misleading you into what is not the truth.

You have not attempted to give me an answer...........for "Where is your ultimate, bedrock, definitive "compass" or "valid source" to validate that you have received the "real" truth from God?

You keep reverting back to the "heart" or the "Spirit", but you haven't provided a source of validation.

The "flesh" that Paul is referring to is a "condition" that Christians can "walk" in where they are not abiding in Christ/God/Spirit.

For the non-Christian; they walk "in the flesh" daily with no "out" to walk in the "Spirit" as they are not "born again" as Jesus told Nicodemus the Pharisee.

Paul also refers to the true Christian as a "new creature/creation" in Christ Jesus........Old things have passed away........This person no longer is spirtually "dead" but is alive in Christ Jesus' life whom God has placed into via their "true" profession of faith in Christs' redeeming work on the cross.

So.......Where is the Mormon's base of truth that can't be questioned as to it's source or validity.

This you haven't given.......as a result your "8ball.....I've answered you many times" remark is totally false. Yes you've answered, but you have skirted around answeriing my question.

It was a simple question. A true Christian would have no problem answering my question. They's say, "God's Word" is my ultimate compass/source of truth, as all other messages may or may not be from God..............including dreams, burning bosom experiences, visions, feelings, promptings........etc....

The early church was assailed by Satan and demonic influence even in it's infancy with people straying away from even the Torah, and Jesus' teachings that still were being compiled for the future N.T..

Paul commended the people of Berea for not even trusting him/Pauls' message that he brought to them!!!! What a commendable and humble move on his part!

What did the people of Berea or Bereans do after Paul taught or brought a message as one of Christ's apostles? They immediately went to the "written truth" of that day............Namely the Torah.....to make sure that Paul was not "Misleading Them".

What does the Mormon who calls him/herself a Christian "run to" when one of their Apostles or a fellow Mormon shares a "testimony" that they say is from God?

"Oh, my heart is sufficent enough".........My heart can tell the difference between what is demonic or false and what is the "truth".

Yeah?...........That's amazing. Folks have been bombing folks, and killing folks in the name of Jesus and for God and Allah for centurys just "knowing" that they were following the "truth".

Apple pie, the American flag, living a squeaky-clean, Leave It To Beaver Cleaver family life does not impress God one bit. Those may be evidences of one's faith, but they can also be evidences of living by "works" as a way to impress or please the one they assume to be their god.

The true Christian know's that when they don't renew their mind daily by immersing themselves into God's Word, that they can easily become distracted, and mis-guided by "untruths" or unbiblical things/doings, that do not bring glory to God through their lives.

Mormons, JW's, Moonies, and on and on all have one "telling" signature, they "SKEW" the Jesus Christ of the bible into a jesus that is more to their liking, that excuses sin, and unholiness, and lack of faith in the Word of God.

They also "all" will "respect" the bible, but will also tear it down as being corrupted, incomplete, or just plain wrong.

The JW's have gone so far as to make up their own bible called the New World Translation. Withing it's pages they have attempted to restructure sentences and wording to remove any reference to Jesus as being God in the Flesh. The famous first verses of the book of John have been been carefully changed in the NWT of the JW's religion make Jesus just a mere "created" being but exalted at a higher state than some other created beings.

The Mormons have left the bible alone and attacked it's validity from a different angle. They "question" it's accuracy because the OT and NT letters/books within it are so "old".............That they just had to become inaccurate over many years of recopying.

I've brought up to the resident Mormons on this forum this question. If God is "omnipotent", how in the world would His/God's communication via Moses', and all the major and minor OT prophets messages, and Johns', Marks', Lukes, Matthews' accounts as well as Pauls epistles to the infant churches become "CORRUPTED"?

What is the very definition of "omnipotence"? It means total capability, total control.

Now if the Mormons via their venerated latter day prophets have taught starting back in the 1830's that the "Word of God"/bible has become inaccurate or corrupted, and thus a new "revelation" from God had to be delivered to none other than Joseph Smith Jr. to get the "REAL TRUTH" from God..............................?
Question: What does this tell us about God through the eyes and beliefs of the Mormon story/revelation?
1. God is not omnipotent.
2. In fact He is very much unlike the God of the bible.
3.He has re-instituted polygamy then changed his mind and condemned it.
4.He has negated Jesus' work on the cross through instituting "Mormon blood attonement against fellow human beings", basically telling the Mormon and non Mormon audience that some sin-attonement must be done beyond Jesus' total sacrifice.
5.Jesus is just an a man once just like you and me but he got to be exalted by his father. You too, as a Mormon can also reach the Mormon Jesus' state of exaltation and be called the Son of God, if you live a good life as defined by the Mormon church.
6.Biblical Christians are sadly misdled......as presented in the very private temple ceremony......of the LDS church.

In order to promote one's belief, one must look for, or manufacture weakness in other belief systems that claim to be the "truth".

The LDS church, JW's, and a myriad of other beliefy systems have been doing this since the first church in the book of Acts has told.

Paul had to deal with Judiazers.........as well as many pagan belief systems that were gradually trying to inject themselves into the early church via members who "claimed" to have the "truth". Many believer's lives were made ineffectual in spreading the good news/gospel of Jesus Christ to all points of the world, but these apostate folks who claimed to have the "Real Truth".
*******
So, where is the anchor, or solid base of truth that the LDS member relys on?

Just look at the track record of their founding Apostle, J. Smith Jr.. What kind of a life did he exemplify. Was he a man of humble background and total trust in Christ of the bible...........?

No, he wasn't. In fact he went even one further. He started a belief system with great cleverness. He had an "encounter" with a "messenger from heaven"................That's a good start..........BUT.......How did J Smith Jr. validate this encounter as coming from the true God? There's where the LDS foundation of teaching and belief falls flat. It all rests on trusting just J Smith Jr..

The bible not only has the eye witness accounts of Moses, but it goes on and on with other prophets............and what is so miraculous about the bible is that their accounts all jell together and don't contradict the "nature of God". In fact the N.T. accounts also jell with the formulation of who God is too. Jesus constantly referred back to the OT or Torah as He taught. Why? That was the bible of their day. It was their Word of God, and Word From God. Jesus of the bible validated Himself to the Jews and gentiles via Torah.....using Isaiah, Psalms, Jeremiah, Michah, Amos............including both major and minor OT prophets to validate that He was the "Expected One".

Why do we need a new/improved revelation from J Smith Jr. who didn't even respect the bible, but questioned it's very foundations.....a man that made a living out of scamming individuals an numerous occasions while residing in New York.

J.Smith Jr. had an axe to grind with Christianity......as the bible in it's totality if he/Smith accepted it would have indicted him of being a gross sinner in need of a Savior.......ala Jesus Christ.

Even Thomas Jefferson........a man of much greater stature, conviction, and character, couldn't accept the teacings of Jesus Christ, and thus.........he authored his own bible, called the Jeffersonian bible. Jefferson did a cut ant paste job on the New Testament to the point that he felt releived of guilt. Jefferson's bible didn't convict him of being a sinner any longer.

So just as the J Smith Jr put God in a man made box to relieve conviction of sin, and ultimate fate of unbelieving humanity, so did one of our venerated Fathers of our great nation. Only difference is that Jefferson was a man of character and wisdom when it came to fathering a great nation.........this can't be said of J Smith Jr.. who was a gross opportunist, and needed his church to rewrite history about his life in order to alleviate the gross embarrassment of his unGodly life.
*************
Amen! Come quickly Jesus!

 

[Adamo]

8ball, why you so bitter? You get booted from the mormon church? Get over it already.

 

[Eightball]

8ball, why you so bitter? You get booted from the mormon church? Get over it already.

Adamo: Nothing I wrote had a bitter root towards any persons, nor was it written because of a bitter experience in the LDS church.

Factoid: I have never been a member of the LDS religion, but many of my ancestors were quite involved in it in Salt Lake City, Utah..

My posts are a result of a "concern" for those who either through ignorance, misunderstanding, or even down-right disobedience/rebellion have gone astray from the principles of the number one selling, and printed book of all times, the bible.

As I believe that within the pages of this book hold the keys to eternal life through the blood and life of Jesus Christ, and He alone.

No other book on earth has been so ridiculed yet so venerated.

Jesus said that the human soul can be has hardend'd as packed dirt, and so very resistant to the love, and calling of God, yet, He is so very patient, and allows us to live out our lives of folly looking for that pot of gold that we can't take with us at our last breath.

90% of avowed atheists are actually agnostics but don't want to admit it. If they ended up in a fox hole in Iwo Jima back in the 1940's with the U.S. Marines, they would find themselves reaching out to that invisible Being known as God.

So much of those that strike down the Christian faith is just "blather" and foolish folly. Often one grows out of it as they live-out their lives and experience the many ups and downs that are sure to come.

God often considers the "wise" of this world as "fools" because they look everywhere; under rocks, in drugs, movies, secular books, science, etc. to make meaning of their lives, but foolishly overlook the One that created all substance..............

 

[Adamo]

8ball, your other problem is that you just ramble on, reread your last post, most of it's not even relevant to what I said.

I admit it, I'm an agnostic.