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8-Ball I've explained this dozens of times already. You should remember this by now. Paul talks about the difference between the fruits of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit. In Galatians 5:25 he says, "But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, temperance, goodness, meekness, faith. Against such there is no law.
After describing the opposites as the fruits of the flesh it is clear to me that if my heart feels any of those good things. It is a witness of the spirit of God to me, that what i am feeling or doing at that time, stands approved of God.
Yes the heart of man is weak. But that is only when the heart chooses to follow after the fruits of the flesh which are thus: Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(interesting that Paul mentions actions here, even if those people had confessed the christ with their lips. It doesn't seem to matter.)
So the heart is still useful. Our hearts are weak when left to ourselves. but our hearts are strong when under the influence of the Spirit of God. This cannot be denied without lying.
Paul lived in the stone age, you really imagine he knew anything worth our consideration?
8-ball if you ever wonder why it takes me FOREVER to get back to you it's because you write ridiculously long romance novels about your opinion. Can you please for the love of God write smaller posts in segments. Because i don't do this as a full time job. I can't take an hour out of my day to disect your repetetive posts. I'll get to these when I get a chance to read them.
8ball, your other problem is that you just ramble on, reread your last post, most of it's not even relevant to what I said.
I admit it, I'm an agnostic.
Well, that's a healthy start right there.I admit it, I'm an agnostic.
8-ball if you ever wonder why it takes me FOREVER to get back to you it's because you write ridiculously long romance novels about your opinion. Can you please for the love of God write smaller posts in segments. Because i don't do this as a full time job. I can't take an hour out of my day to disect your repetetive posts. I'll get to these when I get a chance to read them.
As I expected from Truthspeaker, but tried anyway.............I got "a deflection" retort.
***********
Got a visit from the guys in the white shirts/ties/black slacks on Saturday, and they quickly wanted to leave because I wouldn't accept their free "book of Mormon" and said to them that I "was" a Christian, based on the Holy Bible as the foundational source.
I would have loved to have discoursed with them, but they had no time for me. I wasn't ripe for the picking to be rattled-away from my faith in the biblical Christ by these door to door missionaries.
These door step missionaries are always looking for Christians that have a poor or small understanding of their faith based on biblical precepts. They will use the old, "corrupted bible" attack to try to get a born again Christian to consider their heresy. Sadly, many true Christians have been sucked into the LDS church as they have not been "renewing their minds" (Romans 12) and also exercising their faith based on Ephesians 6.........The total armour of God that is given to every "true" believer.
8-ball if you ever wonder why it takes me FOREVER to get back to you it's because you write ridiculously long romance novels about your opinion. Can you please for the love of God write smaller posts in segments. Because i don't do this as a full time job. I can't take an hour out of my day to disect your repetetive posts. I'll get to these when I get a chance to read them.
As I expected from Truthspeaker, but tried anyway.............I got "a deflection" retort.
***********
Got a visit from the guys in the white shirts/ties/black slacks on Saturday, and they quickly wanted to leave because I wouldn't accept their free "book of Mormon" and said to them that I "was" a Christian, based on the Holy Bible as the foundational source.
I would have loved to have discoursed with them, but they had no time for me. I wasn't ripe for the picking to be rattled-away from my faith in the biblical Christ by these door to door missionaries.
These door step missionaries are always looking for Christians that have a poor or small understanding of their faith based on biblical precepts. They will use the old, "corrupted bible" attack to try to get a born again Christian to consider their heresy. Sadly, many true Christians have been sucked into the LDS church as they have not been "renewing their minds" (Romans 12) and also exercising their faith based on Ephesians 6.........The total armour of God that is given to every "true" believer.
Do you think the Mormon Christ is somehow different from the one in the Bible?
As I expected from Truthspeaker, but tried anyway.............I got "a deflection" retort.
***********
Got a visit from the guys in the white shirts/ties/black slacks on Saturday, and they quickly wanted to leave because I wouldn't accept their free "book of Mormon" and said to them that I "was" a Christian, based on the Holy Bible as the foundational source.
I would have loved to have discoursed with them, but they had no time for me. I wasn't ripe for the picking to be rattled-away from my faith in the biblical Christ by these door to door missionaries.
These door step missionaries are always looking for Christians that have a poor or small understanding of their faith based on biblical precepts. They will use the old, "corrupted bible" attack to try to get a born again Christian to consider their heresy. Sadly, many true Christians have been sucked into the LDS church as they have not been "renewing their minds" (Romans 12) and also exercising their faith based on Ephesians 6.........The total armour of God that is given to every "true" believer.
Do you think the Mormon Chris is somehow different from the one in the Bible?
Excellent Question!
I will be back with a comparative of the bible Jesus and the Mormon/LDS Jesus.
Stay tuned.
Do you think the Mormon Chris is somehow different from the one in the Bible?
Excellent Question!
I will be back with a comparative of the bible Jesus and the Mormon/LDS Jesus.
Stay tuned.
I haven't even got time for the first novel, let alone the sequel. I'm designed to take a reasonable amount of time, anywhere between 5 and 10 minutes per answer. Not an hour.
.............Just another deflection.............typical when one can't answer......
Skeptik:
This even more definitive of the Mormon Jesus versus the bible Jesus.
*********
Comparing Mormon Jesus
Comparing the Mormon Jesus
with the Jesus of the Holy Bible
How was Jesus born?
According to Mormon theology, Jesus is the literal son of god and his goddess wife. He was born through physical sexual relations with Mary. Brigham Young taught that Jesus was not born with any involvement of the Holy Spirit.
According to the Bible, Jesus is not the literal son of god and his goddess wife. He was not born through sexual relations. Mary was a virgin was Jesus was born. There is no such thing as a goddess wife. Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:20).
Where was Jesus born? Of what tribe?
According to Mormon theology, Jesus was born in Jerusalem (Book of Mormon, Alma 7:9,10) and is of the Tribe of Benjamin. The city of Jerusalem (Jebusi) belonged to the tribe of Benjamin (Joshua 18:21-28).
According to the Bible, Jesus was born in Bethlehem, of the Davidic, kingly line of Judah (Matthew 2:1, Hebrews 7:14). Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Revelation 5:5). Jesus is a descendant of David, a Bethlehemite (Matthew 1:6, 1 Samuel 16:1). Several other verses refer to Jesus as "Son of David" (Matthew 15:22; 21:9; Mark 10:47). The line of King was through the Tribe of Judah and not Benjamin (Genesis 49:9-10).
Spirit brothers
According to Mormon theology, Jesus is the brother of all spirits born in heaven. He is also the spirit brother of Lucifer.
According to the Bible, Jesus is not the brother of all spirits born in heaven and he is not the spirit brother of Lucifer. Lucifer is an angel created by Jesus (who created all angels). Lucifer rebelled against God. Only those that do the will of the Father are considered spiritual brothers and sisters of Jesus (Mark 3:35). Jesus even told some Jews that their spiritual father was the devil (John 8:44).
Earthly marriage and celestial marriage
According to Mormon theology, Jesus was married and had wives. Thus, in Heaven, Jesus will continue to be married to his wives forever.
According to the Bible, Jesus was not married and did not have wives. Jesus said there is no celestial marriage. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" (Matthew 22:30).
Polygamy
According to Mormon theology, Jesus was a polygamist (Journal of Discourses, Volume 4, page 259).
According to the Bible, Jesus was not married and did not have wives.
The Godhead
In Mormon theology, in the "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 370", Joseph Smith taught that God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit exist as 3 gods. The Trinity is three separate gods.
According to the Bible, Jesus is not one of 3 gods in the godhead. The Trinity is 3 persons in one God. Jesus is God. There is only 1 God, but many false gods.
The Nature of God
According to Mormon theology, in Doctrines and Covenants 130:22, "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also". According to Doctrines and Covenants section 93, man was co-eternal with God in the beginning. In 1844, Joseph Smith began teaching that the Book of Abraham teaches that God is but one link in an infinite ancestral chain of Gods stretching back through eternity. God is only one of innumerable Gods. The Church believes that humans are the literal offspring of God and one of his celestial wives, and because of this we all have the potential to achieve exaltation to divine status. Smith taught beginning in 1844 that God had a literal father, and that father had a literal father, and so on. Mormons also teach that we existed in heaven with God (our literal Father) as spirits before we became human.
According to the Bible, Jesus teaches us that God is a spirit. Man was not co-eternal with God. Jesus created man. God did not procreate with celestial wives.
The Existence of Jesus
According to Mormon theology, Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was a created being.
According to the Bible, Jesus did not have a beginning. Jesus is the Eternal God.
Atonement for Sin
According to Mormon theology, Jesus atoned for sin on the cross and in the garden of Gethsemene. Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.
According to the Bible, Jesus atoned for sin on the cross alone. His atoning death on the cross was able to cleanse all sins
Plan of Salvation
According to Mormon theology, Jesus offered a plan of salvation in addition to the one offered by Lucifer. Also, there is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188.
According to the Bible, Jesus is the only plan for salvation. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. This is no salvation in any other name
Where will Jesus return?
According to Mormon theology, Jesus is expected to return to a future temple in Missouri.
According to the Bible, Jesus will return to the Jerusalem in Israel (Zechariah 14:4).
Garden of Gethsemane
According to Mormon theology, Jesus sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane.
According to the Bible, Jesus did not sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane. "And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground" (Luke 22:44).
Passover
According to Mormon theology, Jesus did not mention the Passover.
According to the Bible, Jesus mentioned the Passover to his disciples.
Period of darkness
According to Mormon theology, when Jesus died darkness covered the land for three days (Nephi 8:19, 23).
According to the Bible, when Jesus died darkness covered the land for three hours (Luke 23:44).
Where did Jesus preach the Gospel?
According to Mormon theology, Jesus came to the United States to preach the gospel.
According to the Bible, Jesus did not go to the United States or any other country after his resurrection to preach the gospel for that matter. He told his disciples to go to the ends of the earth and preach the gospel. This is called the Great Commission (Mark 16:15).
The Church of Christ
In Mormon theology, Jesus' church ceased to exist and Joseph Smith came to restore it.
According to the Bible, Jesus built his Church and it would exist for all time (Matthew 16:18).
Praying to and worshipping Jesus
In Mormon temples, Jesus is not worshipped and is not called God. Mormons do not call Jesus their Lord and God. Mormons never address prayer to Jesus Christ. Prayers are made in His name, but only addressed to the "Heavenly Father". They do not go through Christ.
According to the Bible, Jesus Bible is prayed to (Acts 7:55-60; Rom. 10:13; Zech 13:9 with 1 Cor. 1:1-2), is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6), and is called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8). Jesus allowed Thomas to address Him as "My Lord and my God" in John 20:28. In Isaiah 9:6, He is called "The mighty God" and "The everlasting Father," and we read in Micah 5:2 that Jesus is "from everlasting." Christians go through Christ because Jesus is the only mediator between God and man.
The Testament of Jesus Christ
In Mormon theology, Jesus gave a second New Testament (or Covenant). The Book of Mormon is said to be another Testament of Jesus Christ.
According to the Bible, Jesus only gave ONE New Testament (or Covenant). See Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24, and Luke 22:20.
If you put your faith in a Jesus that is false, then your faith is useless.
The True Salvation
Mormons believe that one's salvation is based on such good works as baptism, good deeds, missionary work, and following Mormon teachings. In The Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, justification by faith in Jesus Christ is called a "pernicious doctrine" twice and he states that it has been "an influence for evil." (pp. 107, 480) Bruce McConkie once stated at Brigham Young University that a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is "improper and perilous" (Church News, March 20, 1982, p. 5)
Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Romans 4:5 says that salvation comes to those who do not work for salvation, but believe on Jesus Christ instead!
Jesus Christ came into this world to lay down His sinless life for YOU--to pay for your sins because you couldn't. Jesus is your only hope for salvation. Only by receiving Him as your Saviour can you enter the gates of Heaven. There is no other way. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me." (John 14:6) "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)
The Lord Jesus Christ has come and PAID for your sins by shedding His own Blood on Calvary. By receiving Him as your Saviour, you can be WASHED from all your sins in His precious Blood (Rev. 1:5; Col. 1:14; Acts 20:28; I Pet. 1:18-19). Notice these important words from Romans 5:8-9: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
Jesus PAID your way to Heaven! Your church cannot save you! Only by receiving Jesus Christ as your Saviour can you escape the damnation of Hell. Are you willing to forsake YOUR righteousness and receive Jesus Christ as your Saviour, your ONLY HOPE for Salvation? Romans 10:13 says, "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Why not pray right now and ask the Lord to come into your heart and cleanse you from all sin? He will save you just as He promised.
According to Mormon theology, Jesus was married and had wives. Thus, in Heaven, Jesus will continue to be married to his wives forever.
According to Mormon theology, Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was a created being.
In Mormon temples, Jesus is not worshipped and is not called God. Mormons do not call Jesus their Lord and God. Mormons never address prayer to Jesus Christ. Prayers are made in His name, but only addressed to the "Heavenly Father". They do not go through Christ.
Some of what you have posted is correct, and some is not.
I would take another look into the LDS church articles of faith, Journal of Discourses, and the BOM
Quote:
According to Mormon theology, Jesus was married and had wives. Thus, in Heaven, Jesus will continue to be married to his wives forever.
I don't recall having read anything like that in Mormon theology. In the novel The DaVinci Code, the idea of Jesus having been married is explored, but that is hardly Mormon scripture.
The faith vs works discussion is partly correct. Mormons do believe that faith alone won't get you into heaven, but that you must follow the teachings of Christ. They believe in faith and works, much as Catholics do.
Quote:
According to Mormon theology, Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was a created being.
That is not correct. According to Mormon theology, Jesus is eternal, as are all men.
Quote:
In Mormon temples, Jesus is not worshipped and is not called God. Mormons do not call Jesus their Lord and God. Mormons never address prayer to Jesus Christ. Prayers are made in His name, but only addressed to the "Heavenly Father". They do not go through Christ.
That simply isn't so. Jesus is worshiped as Lord and God, just as the heavenly father is so worshiped.
For the shirtless man,(you gotta love a guy who has the guts to post himself shirtless). Bravo!
I am glad that you brought up all those points. Most mormons have not done their homework the way I have. Most don't really have to because, like you said, faith in Christ and good principles are the only thing you really need.for the truth and mysteries of God. I am grateful to be able to answer your questions because I believe I can do so in a satisfactory manner.
Point number 1: Yes we do believe that many tribes have some bloodline of descendency from people of Israel. But it is not that simple. Herein lies the misconception that even a lot of Mormons hold because they are not as studious of the Book of Mormon as they should be. There were three main migrations spoken of in the Book of Mormon. The nation of Lehites which divided into 2 peoples of the same blood called Nephites and Lamanites. The second people spoken of but often forgotten were the Jaredites. The third, often glossed over completely are the Mulekites. I can delve into each of their histories in detail later if you like, but to sum up. The first people here, the Jaredites actually came from Asiatic area of Babylon. Quite a different DNA scheme. They were the first ever to set foot on this continent. This people as a nation dissolved and spread into unknown parts of the continent, certainly later mixing in with the future nations that would come, first mixing with the Mulekite people, who also came from the land of Jerusalem about 12 years after the more famous Nephites and Lamanites.
I can't rememberexactly the study, but I can produce it later if need be that showed that the people of the Americas were found to be primarily descended from Asiatic origins, which would fit perfectly in with the chronology of the Book of Mormon.......whew!
Oh yes, point two, the "Nuclear submarines" in question. The vessels themselves had to be made differently than your normal ship of the day with it's sails and common boat shape. To be clear, the people who first used these vessels were the Jaredites when they were told by God to take up this voyage. To a westerner, I agree, this story does not make much sense. But when put into historical context, it is an impressive stamp on the authenticity of the book.
First it has been well documented that most of what we have learned of Ancient weather and dates of storms and destruction has been discovered in the last 100 years with the carbon dating process and knowledge of Geology and so on. We have learned in this time that there was a great and terrible weather pattern which leveled entire civilizations and left thriving cities, such as Bablyon completely destitute circa 2200 bc,right around the time the jaredites left bablyon. Strikingly, The most learned scientists of 1830 had no such knowledge of this timeline of destruction. Certainly not a poor farmboy named Joseph Smith in upstate rural New York.
Hence had these Jaredites been in regular ships with sails, it would have been a quick destruction for all on board. The construction of the ships was very peculiar, not like a submarine like you have described, but certainly "tight, like unto a dish" as Ether points out. "Ye shall put a hole in the top thereof, that will close tight like unto a dish so that when the mountain waves shall dash upon you, you shall not be broken into pieces. You shall be as a whale in the sea, and I shall cause my winds to blow and a tempest to be thy wind continually blowing toward the promised land." I know I slightly misquoted the scripture in Ether because I don't have my book with me, but those are basically the words spoken to "the brother of Jared" in the book. "And when ye shall suffer for air ye shall unstop the hole when you come to the surface".
They were not submarines. They were boats that would normally float on the water, but because of their shape, could stand for short whiles to be underneath water for a time. Just like a whale that needs to come up for air......whew...
Next point... where was I?
Oh yes, the great cities and their locations. We all know that there have been cities that have been buried by volcanic eruptions, or erased by large earthquakes and floods and such throughout the ages. Then why not in America. But some may say, well certainly not all the cities would be lost right? It would take one heck of a natural disaster wouldn't it? Yes it would.
The book of mormon talks about just such a disaster, where after the death of Christ, Mountains were removed out of their place and fell on cities, giant waves, tornadoes and and vicious earthquakes that lasted for the space of three hours. Do any of us have any idea what would happen if a magnitude 9 earthquake shook for three hours? We do if we look in the book of mormon. Think something like that couldn't happen? Just watch that show on TLC Mega Disasters.
Skeptik: I would take another look into the LDS church articles of faith, Journal of Discourses, and the BOM before you make that call.
Some of what you have posted is correct, and some is not.
I would take another look into the LDS church articles of faith, Journal of Discourses, and the BOM
Quote:
According to Mormon theology, Jesus was married and had wives. Thus, in Heaven, Jesus will continue to be married to his wives forever.
I don't recall having read anything like that in Mormon theology. In the novel The DaVinci Code, the idea of Jesus having been married is explored, but that is hardly Mormon scripture.
The faith vs works discussion is partly correct. Mormons do believe that faith alone won't get you into heaven, but that you must follow the teachings of Christ. They believe in faith and works, much as Catholics do.
Quote:
According to Mormon theology, Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was a created being.
That is not correct. According to Mormon theology, Jesus is eternal, as are all men.
Quote:
In Mormon temples, Jesus is not worshipped and is not called God. Mormons do not call Jesus their Lord and God. Mormons never address prayer to Jesus Christ. Prayers are made in His name, but only addressed to the "Heavenly Father". They do not go through Christ.
That simply isn't so. Jesus is worshiped as Lord and God, just as the heavenly father is so worshiped.
Skeptik: I would take another look into the LDS church articles of faith, Journal of Discourses, and the BOM before you make that call.
Some of what you have posted is correct, and some is not.
I would take another look into the LDS church articles of faith, Journal of Discourses, and the BOM
Quote:
According to Mormon theology, Jesus was married and had wives. Thus, in Heaven, Jesus will continue to be married to his wives forever.
I don't recall having read anything like that in Mormon theology. In the novel The DaVinci Code, the idea of Jesus having been married is explored, but that is hardly Mormon scripture.
The faith vs works discussion is partly correct. Mormons do believe that faith alone won't get you into heaven, but that you must follow the teachings of Christ. They believe in faith and works, much as Catholics do.
Quote:
According to Mormon theology, Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was a created being.
That is not correct. According to Mormon theology, Jesus is eternal, as are all men.
Quote:
In Mormon temples, Jesus is not worshipped and is not called God. Mormons do not call Jesus their Lord and God. Mormons never address prayer to Jesus Christ. Prayers are made in His name, but only addressed to the "Heavenly Father". They do not go through Christ.
That simply isn't so. Jesus is worshiped as Lord and God, just as the heavenly father is so worshiped.
I don't think so, eightball. I got my info at BYU. Where did you get yours? I noticed you didn't answer my question as to whether you wrote thaqt response yourself. Shouldn't you give credit to the author, you know, plagerism and all that?
I have included the web address or clickable link with both Mormon Jesus vs. Bible Jesus comparisons. They were there when I first posted and are still there.
Just click the "comparing ...." highlighted ..." thingy just above where I pasted the comparisons.
* We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God and inerrant in the original writings.
* We believe there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. See the Doctrine of the Trinity.
* We believe in the Deity of our Lord, Jesus Christ; in His virgin birth; in His sinless life; in His Miracles; in His vicarious atonement through His death and shed blood; in His bodily resurrection; in His ascension to the right hand of the Father; in His Personal return in power and glory!
* We believe that lost and sinful man must be saved, and that man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
* We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a Godly life.
* We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the unsaved; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life and they that are unsaved unto the resurrection of damnation.
* We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord, Jesus Christ.
I have included the web address or clickable link with both Mormon Jesus vs. Bible Jesus comparisons. They were there when I first posted and are still there.
Just click the "comparing ...." highlighted ..." thingy just above where I pasted the comparisons.
OK, my bad. I missed that link.
You are quoting the Media Ministries website. According to their site, they believe the following:
* We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God and inerrant in the original writings.
* We believe there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. See the Doctrine of the Trinity.
* We believe in the Deity of our Lord, Jesus Christ; in His virgin birth; in His sinless life; in His Miracles; in His vicarious atonement through His death and shed blood; in His bodily resurrection; in His ascension to the right hand of the Father; in His Personal return in power and glory!
* We believe that lost and sinful man must be saved, and that man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
* We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a Godly life.
* We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the unsaved; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life and they that are unsaved unto the resurrection of damnation.
* We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord, Jesus Christ.
Their site contains arguments against Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, and Seventh Day Adventist beliefs, and claims to support "Biblical Christianity"
I wonder why they find it necessary to mix half truths and outright falsehoods among the facts that they present?
Isn't that what the Bible says Satan does in order to fool us, tell a thousand truths so that we will believe one lie?
