The Truth about Mormons

[Avatar4321]

A mormon quoting a scientific law? Won't you be excommunicated for that?

Anyways, if you take a solid, like coal, turn it into energy like heat, and use that heat up to warm your house, it's gone. Poof! Just like magic.

No. It's not gone. The matter is still accounted for. It's just in the same state and form.

And no. Why would I be excommunicated for citing scientific laws? We are commanded, encouraged, exhorted, etc to learn all knowledge. The Glory of God is intelligence.

Science tells us that a planet cannot be made in 6 days, with plants, animals, pre-made fossils...


These sentences "The matter is still accounted for. It's just in the same state and form." don't make any sense. it's not in the same state, it went for a solid (coal) to energy (heat) which dissipated.

Basic Chemistry demonstrates that there is a balance in any reaction. If you break down water, for example, you still have 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen. The matter is accounted, for it's just in a different form.

And no science, doesn't tell us anything about what God can do in Six days. Nor does it define how long a day is to God.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No. God God

But Mormonism has thousands, maybe millions of gods. Wasn't Elohim first Adam who then became god of this world after peopling it with his wife?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Things that are made have a beginning. If it has a beginning it has an end. God had neither. It's a tough concept for the finite mind. But true nonetheless

That makes no sense. If I am a good Mormon of the Melchizedek Priesthood, when I die I will go to the celestial kingdom and according to D&C;

{20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.}

But I have a beginning, and as a god, will still have a beginning.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Matter has always existed. It's just a question of which state it's in. Most matter is still in it's unorganized state.

Not matter, energy. This is what confirmation of the Higgs field is all about, the creation of matter on the quantum level. Matter is created and destroyed all the time.

 

[Avatar4321]

Things that are made have a beginning. If it has a beginning it has an end. God had neither. It's a tough concept for the finite mind. But true nonetheless

That makes no sense. If I am a good Mormon of the Melchizedek Priesthood, when I die I will go to the celestial kingdom and according to D&C;

{20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.}

But I have a beginning, and as a god, will still have a beginning.

That's the little secret. You don't have a beginning. You don't have an end. You've always existed in some way or another.

 

[Uncensored2008]

That's the little secret. You don't have a beginning. You don't have an end. You've always existed in some way or another.

If I pluck a drop of water from the ocean, has that drop always existed? If I return the drop to the ocean then once again pluck a drop, is it the same drop? Can it be? Or is the unique drop an event that occurs only at a single moment, then can never be again? Even in our corporal form, are we the same beings we were 20 years ago? Does the Alzheimer patient retain that which made him unique in his youth?

We are not permanent. We will return to the void. That which was us will reform into various other forms, but it will never be us again, just as the drop of water cannot be again.

 

[daws101]

Things that are made have a beginning. If it has a beginning it has an end. God had neither. It's a tough concept for the finite mind. But true nonetheless

That makes no sense. If I am a good Mormon of the Melchizedek Priesthood, when I die I will go to the celestial kingdom and according to D&C;

{20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.}

But I have a beginning, and as a god, will still have a beginning.

That's the little secret. You don't have a beginning. You don't have an end. You've always existed in some way or another.

quotes from the D &C
another book of fiction.

JUST the facts mam:The age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The best current estimate of the age of the universe is 13.75 ± 0.11 billion years[1][2] (4.339 ± 0.035 ×1017 seconds) within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1] The uncertainty of 0.11 billion years has been obtained by the agreement of a number of scientific research projects, such as microwave background radiation measurements by Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe and other probes. Measurements of the cosmic background radiation give the cooling time of the universe since the Big Bang,[3] and measurements of the expansion rate of the universe can be used to calculate its approximate age by extrapolating backwards in time.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I'll reply again soon enough. Probably tomorrow but it's refreshing to have some more substantial discussion on these matters. But today I'm celebrating the Giants comeback victory over the reds.

 

[JoeB131]

Pity bump.

Seriously, man. You have no pity. Do we really need to keep this insanity going.

I mean, I love bashing the Mormons, but this isn't even fun anymore. It's like talking to adult retards who still believe in Santa Claus.

So you know what that's like? Somehow I don't see you taking time out of your day to go to the convalescent hospitals.

Nope. I pay taxes and let the professionals do that.

The don't come over to my desk and tell me how to do my job, I don't go to their job and tell them how to do theirs.

Still doesn't take away from the fact that you Mormons believe in absolute bullshit that didn't happen, and you are all fucking nuts.

 

[JoeB131]

You know hug, I disappeared for over a year on this thread because I got busy with work and life and stuff. Then something clicked the other day and made me want to peek back in and see if this thread was still alive. Thanks to enormous interest and animosity towards the church, people like you just can't stay away from us "crazies". You must really have an attraction to the insane or you're a closet investigator. Which one hug?

I know you've missed me haven't you. Admit it!

The only reason I'm stuck paying attention to you crazies right now is that due to a bad economy, you have a slight chance of sneaking one of your whacky cultists into the white house.

Of course, Romney won't talk about the crazy stuff publically, and no one has the balls to ask him because when you point out Mormonism is crazy, people scream about "bigotry".

I will be happy when Romney loses, and I never have to spend much time thinking about the LDS again.

 

[ima]

No. It's not gone. The matter is still accounted for. It's just in the same state and form.

And no. Why would I be excommunicated for citing scientific laws? We are commanded, encouraged, exhorted, etc to learn all knowledge. The Glory of God is intelligence.

Science tells us that a planet cannot be made in 6 days, with plants, animals, pre-made fossils...


These sentences "The matter is still accounted for. It's just in the same state and form." don't make any sense. it's not in the same state, it went for a solid (coal) to energy (heat) which dissipated.

Basic Chemistry demonstrates that there is a balance in any reaction. If you break down water, for example, you still have 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen. The matter is accounted, for it's just in a different form.

And no science, doesn't tell us anything about what God can do in Six days. Nor does it define how long a day is to God.

Do you think that whomever wrote the part about the world being made in 6 days was referring to 6 god-days which are longer than a regular day? I didn't think so. Please try again.

 

[onecut39]

For the shirtless man,(you gotta love a guy who has the guts to post himself shirtless). Bravo!
I am glad that you brought up all those points. Most mormons have not done their homework the way I have. Most don't really have to because, like you said, faith in Christ and good principles are the only thing you really need. However, I find it fun to dig for the truth and mysteries of God. I am grateful to be able to answer your questions because I believe I can do so in a satisfactory manner.
Point number 1: Yes we do believe that many tribes have some bloodline of descendency from people of Israel. But it is not that simple. Herein lies the misconception that even a lot of Mormons hold because they are not as studious of the Book of Mormon as they should be. There were three main migrations spoken of in the Book of Mormon. The nation of Lehites which divided into 2 peoples of the same blood called Nephites and Lamanites. The second people spoken of but often forgotten were the Jaredites. The third, often glossed over completely are the Mulekites. I can delve into each of their histories in detail later if you like, but to sum up. The first people here, the Jaredites actually came from Asiatic area of Babylon. Quite a different DNA scheme. They were the first ever to set foot on this continent. This people as a nation dissolved and spread into unknown parts of the continent, certainly later mixing in with the future nations that would come, first mixing with the Mulekite people, who also came from the land of Jerusalem about 12 years after the more famous Nephites and Lamanites.
I can't remember exactly the study, but I can produce it later if need be that showed that the people of the Americas were found to be primarily descended from Asiatic origins, which would fit perfectly in with the chronology of the Book of Mormon.......whew!

Oh yes, point two, the "Nuclear submarines" in question. The vessels themselves had to be made differently than your normal ship of the day with it's sails and common boat shape. To be clear, the people who first used these vessels were the Jaredites when they were told by God to take up this voyage. To a westerner, I agree, this story does not make much sense. But when put into historical context, it is an impressive stamp on the authenticity of the book.
First it has been well documented that most of what we have learned of Ancient weather and dates of storms and destruction has been discovered in the last 100 years with the carbon dating process and knowledge of Geology and so on. We have learned in this time that there was a great and terrible weather pattern which leveled entire civilizations and left thriving cities, such as Bablyon completely destitute circa 2200 bc, right around the time the jaredites left bablyon. Strikingly, The most learned scientists of 1830 had no such knowledge of this timeline of destruction. Certainly not a poor farmboy named Joseph Smith in upstate rural New York.
Hence had these Jaredites been in regular ships with sails, it would have been a quick destruction for all on board. The construction of the ships was very peculiar, not like a submarine like you have described, but certainly "tight, like unto a dish" as Ether points out. "Ye shall put a hole in the top thereof, that will close tight like unto a dish so that when the mountain waves shall dash upon you, you shall not be broken into pieces. You shall be as a whale in the sea, and I shall cause my winds to blow and a tempest to be thy wind continually blowing toward the promised land." I know I slightly misquoted the scripture in Ether because I don't have my book with me, but those are basically the words spoken to "the brother of Jared" in the book. "And when ye shall suffer for air ye shall unstop the hole when you come to the surface".
They were not submarines. They were boats that would normally float on the water, but because of their shape, could stand for short whiles to be underneath water for a time. Just like a whale that needs to come up for air......whew...
Next point... where was I?
Oh yes, the great cities and their locations. We all know that there have been cities that have been buried by volcanic eruptions, or erased by large earthquakes and floods and such throughout the ages. Then why not in America. But some may say, well certainly not all the cities would be lost right? It would take one heck of a natural disaster wouldn't it? Yes it would.
The book of mormon talks about just such a disaster, where after the death of Christ, Mountains were removed out of their place and fell on cities, giant waves, tornadoes and and vicious earthquakes that lasted for the space of three hours. Do any of us have any idea what would happen if a magnitude 9 earthquake shook for three hours? We do if we look in the book of mormon. Think something like that couldn't happen? Just watch that show on TLC Mega Disasters.

The Book of Mormon is so fantastic that, by comparison, the Bible appears scientific. That is quite an accomplishment!

 

[Uncensored2008]

The Book of Mormon is so fantastic that, by comparison, the Bible appears scientific. That is quite an accomplishment!

I've read the Bible, I've read the Koran, but the Book of Mormon was impossible to read, disjointed and repetitive, beyond boring.

I've made it clear that I like Mormons just fine, the ones I know are good people. But that Book of Mormon is the most boring thing I've ever encountered. And it's not bias, I think Christianity is just as absurd as Mormonism; and Islam is evil.

 

[daws101]

The Book of Mormon is so fantastic that, by comparison, the Bible appears scientific. That is quite an accomplishment!

I've read the Bible, I've read the Koran, but the Book of Mormon was impossible to read, disjointed and repetitive, beyond boring.

I've made it clear that I like Mormons just fine, the ones I know are good people. But that Book of Mormon is the most boring thing I've ever encountered. And it's not bias, I think Christianity is just as absurd as Mormonism; and Islam is evil.

try to imagine being forced or coerced into reading it almost every day.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The Book of Mormon is so fantastic that, by comparison, the Bible appears scientific. That is quite an accomplishment!

I've read the Bible, I've read the Koran, but the Book of Mormon was impossible to read, disjointed and repetitive, beyond boring.

I've made it clear that I like Mormons just fine, the ones I know are good people. But that Book of Mormon is the most boring thing I've ever encountered. And it's not bias, I think Christianity is just as absurd as Mormonism; and Islam is evil.

Oh you're so full o crap! You did not read the Bible! What a wretched lie! Or the Koran for that matter. The Book of Mormon is 100 times easier to read than the Bible and 1000 times less boring because it skips he begat him and they begat them in Numbers and Deuteronomy. If you read the Bible all the way through then I'm Mickey Frickin Mouse.

Wow that was my first post after being out for so long? Blasted School and homework and finally moving to Utah

 

[Truthspeaker]

For the shirtless man,(you gotta love a guy who has the guts to post himself shirtless). Bravo!
I am glad that you brought up all those points. Most mormons have not done their homework the way I have. Most don't really have to because, like you said, faith in Christ and good principles are the only thing you really need. However, I find it fun to dig for the truth and mysteries of God. I am grateful to be able to answer your questions because I believe I can do so in a satisfactory manner.
Point number 1: Yes we do believe that many tribes have some bloodline of descendency from people of Israel. But it is not that simple. Herein lies the misconception that even a lot of Mormons hold because they are not as studious of the Book of Mormon as they should be. There were three main migrations spoken of in the Book of Mormon. The nation of Lehites which divided into 2 peoples of the same blood called Nephites and Lamanites. The second people spoken of but often forgotten were the Jaredites. The third, often glossed over completely are the Mulekites. I can delve into each of their histories in detail later if you like, but to sum up. The first people here, the Jaredites actually came from Asiatic area of Babylon. Quite a different DNA scheme. They were the first ever to set foot on this continent. This people as a nation dissolved and spread into unknown parts of the continent, certainly later mixing in with the future nations that would come, first mixing with the Mulekite people, who also came from the land of Jerusalem about 12 years after the more famous Nephites and Lamanites.
I can't remember exactly the study, but I can produce it later if need be that showed that the people of the Americas were found to be primarily descended from Asiatic origins, which would fit perfectly in with the chronology of the Book of Mormon.......whew!

Oh yes, point two, the "Nuclear submarines" in question. The vessels themselves had to be made differently than your normal ship of the day with it's sails and common boat shape. To be clear, the people who first used these vessels were the Jaredites when they were told by God to take up this voyage. To a westerner, I agree, this story does not make much sense. But when put into historical context, it is an impressive stamp on the authenticity of the book.
First it has been well documented that most of what we have learned of Ancient weather and dates of storms and destruction has been discovered in the last 100 years with the carbon dating process and knowledge of Geology and so on. We have learned in this time that there was a great and terrible weather pattern which leveled entire civilizations and left thriving cities, such as Bablyon completely destitute circa 2200 bc, right around the time the jaredites left bablyon. Strikingly, The most learned scientists of 1830 had no such knowledge of this timeline of destruction. Certainly not a poor farmboy named Joseph Smith in upstate rural New York.
Hence had these Jaredites been in regular ships with sails, it would have been a quick destruction for all on board. The construction of the ships was very peculiar, not like a submarine like you have described, but certainly "tight, like unto a dish" as Ether points out. "Ye shall put a hole in the top thereof, that will close tight like unto a dish so that when the mountain waves shall dash upon you, you shall not be broken into pieces. You shall be as a whale in the sea, and I shall cause my winds to blow and a tempest to be thy wind continually blowing toward the promised land." I know I slightly misquoted the scripture in Ether because I don't have my book with me, but those are basically the words spoken to "the brother of Jared" in the book. "And when ye shall suffer for air ye shall unstop the hole when you come to the surface".
They were not submarines. They were boats that would normally float on the water, but because of their shape, could stand for short whiles to be underneath water for a time. Just like a whale that needs to come up for air......whew...
Next point... where was I?
Oh yes, the great cities and their locations. We all know that there have been cities that have been buried by volcanic eruptions, or erased by large earthquakes and floods and such throughout the ages. Then why not in America. But some may say, well certainly not all the cities would be lost right? It would take one heck of a natural disaster wouldn't it? Yes it would.
The book of mormon talks about just such a disaster, where after the death of Christ, Mountains were removed out of their place and fell on cities, giant waves, tornadoes and and vicious earthquakes that lasted for the space of three hours. Do any of us have any idea what would happen if a magnitude 9 earthquake shook for three hours? We do if we look in the book of mormon. Think something like that couldn't happen? Just watch that show on TLC Mega Disasters.

The Book of Mormon is so fantastic that, by comparison, the Bible appears scientific. That is quite an accomplishment!

In very deed. Also I made this first post 4 years ago and we've learned even more since then. Welcome to the conversation... guy...

 

[Truthspeaker]

No. God God

But Mormonism has thousands, maybe millions of gods. Wasn't Elohim first Adam who then became god of this world after peopling it with his wife?

No Adam and Elohim are two different people

 

[Truthspeaker]

Science tells us that a planet cannot be made in 6 days, with plants, animals, pre-made fossils...


These sentences "The matter is still accounted for. It's just in the same state and form." don't make any sense. it's not in the same state, it went for a solid (coal) to energy (heat) which dissipated.

Basic Chemistry demonstrates that there is a balance in any reaction. If you break down water, for example, you still have 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen. The matter is accounted, for it's just in a different form.

And no science, doesn't tell us anything about what God can do in Six days. Nor does it define how long a day is to God.

Do you think that whomever wrote the part about the world being made in 6 days was referring to 6 god-days which are longer than a regular day? I didn't think so. Please try again.

who knows which day they were referring to in the universe. It couldn't have been an earth day since the earth wasn't created yet.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, why are you resurrected this Zombie thread.

Romney lost. No one is interested in your silly little cult anymore.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Oh you're so full o crap! You did not read the Bible! What a wretched lie! Or the Koran for that matter. The Book of Mormon is 100 times easier to read than the Bible and 1000 times less boring because it skips he begat him and they begat them in Numbers and Deuteronomy. If you read the Bible all the way through then I'm Mickey Frickin Mouse.

Wow that was my first post after being out for so long? Blasted School and homework and finally moving to Utah

Oh please.

Believe whatever crap you like, but the Book of Mormon is the most poorly written pile I've ever seen.

I was raised by eine sehr religiös, deutsche Mutter, die Täufer is. I read the Bible by the time I was 10.

I read the Koran after the attack on our marines in Lebanon, I wanted to know what the whole thing was about.

Both are infinitely more readable than the Book of Mormon.