The Truth about Mormons

[JakeStarkey]

Critical thinking does that to atheists and agnostics as well as religionists.

It's what it does.

 

[daws101]

Critical thinking does that to atheists and agnostics as well as religionists.

It's what it does.

another nice but inaccurate rationalization.

 

[JakeStarkey]

An absolute dead on analysis by me, faither.

 

[daws101]

An absolute dead on analysis by me, faither.

only in your dreams ..faither?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Atheists and agnostics demonstrate the most flagrant of conflicted personalities: they believe in the principle that something that does not exist although they cannot prove it. Silly thinking.

wrong buddy, I'm an agnostic, which to me means I see no proof EITHER way. Show me some real proof either way and I'm open to changing my mind. I can't believe in something without proof, so until I see real proof, it's just a theory, however pleasant the theory might be.

Unfortunately you don't understand what faith really is. Faith is believing in something you have no proof of. Proof changes your mind for you and skips over the faith part. So you can't really believe in something that is proven; you just know. Get it?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Oh, I think that your cult is already starting to fade, thanks to the fact that the internet is informing more of your dumb sheep about what Joseph Smith really did...

yeah, but we've already established that your depiction of reality is questionable.

Yeah... Ummm, hey, did they find those Nephite Ruins yet?

You know, if the NEphite Civilization existed, there ought to be evidence of it, right?

Sure did. Plenty of it. and plenty more to come. But you pholks call them "Maya" ruins.

 

[Truthspeaker]

nonsense. Especially considering that countless ex-mormons claim we wont leave them alone. Go to any anti-mormon forum and ask if anyone has problems with mormons who wont leave them alone. They will give you tons of stories showing the exact opposite of what your claiming. So stop lying.

That's what disgusts me about anti-mormons such as yourself. You're so freakin insecure about your positions that you have to make things up.

I think that continuing to bug them isn't the same as "not shunning them".

How about this. When someone leaves your religion, you respect that and don't try to win them back and don't shun them and actually respect their decision.

What a Fuckin' concept.

And just how are you being harrassed? Verbally? Monetarily? Sexually? I'd like to know some details and how you used "the law" to get such fiends off of you.
In all likeliness you are no more original than the rest of the anti-mormons who simply cannot leave the CHURCH alone when they leave. You see , it's just the other way around. That's the way it always is. Harrassment? hah! that's rich. So the deacons come by once a month and ask for fast offerings and now you're being harrassed... right.

 

[Truthspeaker]

It's astonishing that you think just insulting people somehow proves your point. I don't think your stupid though. I just think you aren't thinking.

How convenient that no one has come back from the dead since you people came up with this nonsense to verify the rediculous claims made by Christians and Mormans.. OR should we just skip to the chase and call it fraud, which it is. If this scam wasn't being conducted under the protection of freedom of religion you would all be in prison.

Except they have.

1) Jesus Christ
2) Moroni
3) John the Baptist
4) Peter, James, and John

You can read the scriptures and find out more for yourself.

Not to mention all those guys went to prison or were exiled or murdered for their religion. Don't forget the list of other Christian prisoners: Daniel, Shadrack, Meshak, Abednigo, Alma, Amulek, Paul, Joseph Smith, Nephi and Lehi(brothers) and Abinadi.

 

[Truthspeaker]

need to ,there are no plates (never were) whatever the witnesses BELIEVE they saw or imagined they saw (the spiritual eye) is no evidence of the plates existing.
humans tend to find what they want to find even when it's not there.
I have no doubt they did believe what they imagined they saw, books on human behavior are full of accounts of misidentification.

Like I said, it's fine that you are going to ignore the eyewitnesses because it's inconvenient for your current perspective. That's your choice. But it doesn't change the fact that the eye witnesses exist and their testimony and behavior conflict with your viewpoint.

The eyewitnesses all seem to have been related or friends, and not some unbiased notary public.

If you think about it, it doesn't matter who they are or related to. What matters is their character. If a notary public were shown the plates you would say the same thing that he was just a friend of Smith or was bought off. That's why character is so important and the fact that none of the witnesses ever recanted their testimony despite every opportunity to do so. That is worth considering more than some guy with a stamp.

 

[JakeStarkey]

An absolute dead on analysis by me, faither.

only in your dreams ..faither?

Yup, you live your life by faith.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Like I said, it's fine that you are going to ignore the eyewitnesses because it's inconvenient for your current perspective. That's your choice. But it doesn't change the fact that the eye witnesses exist and their testimony and behavior conflict with your viewpoint.

The eyewitnesses all seem to have been related or friends, and not some unbiased notary public.

If you think about it, it doesn't matter who they are or related to. What matters is their character. If a notary public were shown the plates you would say the same thing that he was just a friend of Smith or was bought off. That's why character is so important and the fact that none of the witnesses ever recanted their testimony despite every opportunity to do so. That is worth considering more than some guy with a stamp.

About four seconds worth. They never actually saw the golden plates.

But . . . I am glad to see that you dropped in.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Yeah... Ummm, hey, did they find those Nephite Ruins yet?

You know, if the NEphite Civilization existed, there ought to be evidence of it, right?

And there is if you bother looking at the evidence. The problem is identifying it and the lack of research into that area.

However, the fact that an uneducated farmboy in frontier New York described an accurate route through the Arabia Penninsula in 1 Nephi through Nahom and Bountiful, and even accurately named Nahom as the evidence shows it was known at time is pretty impressive. But I suppose thats another one of those coincidence that Joseph just happened to get right that no one knew about for nearly 200 years.

Well, no, not really. And it doesn't answer my question. Besides the fact that geography of the Arabian penisula was known to him (they had maps in 1820) the theory about Nahom isn't accepted outside LDS circles.

More to the point, the Nephite civilization is reputed to have lasted over a thousand years- as long as Rome.

Yet there are no linguistic, archeological, genetic, etc. evidence to be found.

Smith talks about grains growing in the Nephite lands that existed in his time, but not in pre-Columbian America. He describes elephants and horses which didn't live here, either. Coinage, Chariots, Swords- None of which Amerindians used.

Face it guy, the Book of Mormon is bad Bible Fan-Fic.

(basketball buzzer sound) wrong and it shows you have not done any research of your own, only regurgitated erroneous concepts of anti-mormon haters.

You're out of your league right now and I'll show you:
Smith translated a record which talked about things which were both part of his world in the 1830's and not of his time either. Evidence of Elephants have been found in SOUTH AMERICA of all places (mastadon) as recently as 5,000 b.c. which is feasible for the Jaredite Civilization time period, remember this was not the Nephite(Maya) time period. Coinage is never discussed in the Book of Mormon ever, only their monetary value system; Funny you should mention chariots and that they haven't been found in a tropical climate when not even one chariot has been discovered in Jerusalem or the fertile crescent area from the Biblical time period either, which climate happens to be much drier than the equator and therefore better at preserving archaeology. Swords are cutting weapons swung by hand. and while there were plenty of wooden swords, no doubt any metal swords in such a climate would rust and disappear in the tropical climate long before the white man came around. Especially if the people who possessed the skill to make the swords were destroyed.
Funny how everyone accepts that lions once inhabited the middle east yet there are no archaeological remains of those found either.
So let's cut through the crap, and focus on your real objection: you don't like the religion so you use these weak excuses to justify your attack on it. Oh yeah, horses were found but anyone who talks about the findings is hushed immediately by the science pukes who think no new discoveries can be found. and yes the horse remains were from Nephite/Lamanite times before Columbus or Cortez.

 

[Truthspeaker]

#1 JC? Word of mouth by uneducated people for how long? Nonsense. Even among a society as advanced as ours there is a reason for a statute of limitations. Do you really think someone 200 years from now would take the word of any group of people that had not documented something that happened today?

Moroni? Now the Morman cult is conducting a fraud even moreso than the regular crazy Christians. There is no angel Moroni. You people made that up out of whole cloth to cover yourselves for your penchant to sexually abuse children.

#3? see #1

#4? see #1

You are all liars and deceivers that prey on the weak minded. You should all be thrown in prison.

Why? Because you cant handle the truth?

You have to falsely accuse people of lying and sexual sin because you dont have the integrity to actually do the work necessary to find out for yourself? Why? Why do you fight so much with what you know are completely shallow arguments?

Especially when we have modern witnesses.

One can elicit similar testimony in any mental institution day room. The sad truth is that there is no heaven nor hell so in death you will not have to pay for the evil you do. No reward. No punishment. You people are too far gone to develope a conscience.

Still I think of thousands of years of deceit. Billions of lives tricked into bidding your fraud.

It is sad how much human life and evolution you waste. Too bad there is really no such thing as justice.

This is truly a sad mindset. I really feel sorry for you hugs. Let's live in fantasyland and pretend that there really is no consequences to our actions: a) there would be no point to life, no purpose whatsoever. b) There is no reason to live or strive for improvement if it is all going to disappear. c) if both a and b are true then it would still be better to believe in a God of hope than to live in the truth of despair and pointlessness.

Back to reality now... Truth actually brings happiness because it reveals there is hope for life after death.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Theists and atheists are not much concerned at all about what agnostics think, and generally wish them well.

Theists for sure care what other people who don't believe think. That's why they come to my door to try to convert me. You don't see agnostics or atheists doing that, now do you?

That's because they're better funded and have a grip on the media so they just advertise fare more effectively than door to door. They become teachers and politicians.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The eyewitnesses all seem to have been related or friends, and not some unbiased notary public.

If you think about it, it doesn't matter who they are or related to. What matters is their character. If a notary public were shown the plates you would say the same thing that he was just a friend of Smith or was bought off. That's why character is so important and the fact that none of the witnesses ever recanted their testimony despite every opportunity to do so. That is worth considering more than some guy with a stamp.

About four seconds worth. They never actually saw the golden plates.

But . . . I am glad to see that you dropped in.

So you say... it's good to drop in once in a while.... I'm a busy man these days.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Proof please.

Man exists and scientists cannot even create one single celled organism. And then there are good Christians who are very open, loving and kind who have given up everything in order to be missionaries. I mean that they had great jobs and lived in fancy homes and gave it up to be servants of God and reach people in areas "smart" people wouldn't be caught dead in...

OR in other words...they took it upon themselves to destroy native cultures... Nice work if you can get it.

If the natives were smart they would cook the missionaries and eat em...I hear they taste like chicken.

So you're saying 4 things in this last gem of yours:
1: all missionaries look to destroy native cultures
2: Natives are not smart
3: Natives should eat people
4: You know what they taste like

 

[Truthspeaker]

despite having no tangible evidence of god's existence, why is it that believers seem to think that they gain some advantage when saying "you can't prove god exists".
evidence of nothing is still nothing...

My knowledge of God's existence has nothing to do with a pointless debate with you are other non-believers. My knowledge began with faith long ago when I wasn't sure but just wanted to believe. The spiritual means of discernment are very personal to me but are more real than the latests scientific discoveries.
Your basis for not believing is that you haven't seen hardcore proof yet. You want evidence from some scientist who could revise his claim with the very next discovery. Science is always updating.
Spiritual knowledge once gained the first time is permanent.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If you think about it, it doesn't matter who they are or related to. What matters is their character. If a notary public were shown the plates you would say the same thing that he was just a friend of Smith or was bought off. That's why character is so important and the fact that none of the witnesses ever recanted their testimony despite every opportunity to do so. That is worth considering more than some guy with a stamp.

About four seconds worth. They never actually saw the golden plates.

But . . . I am glad to see that you dropped in.

So you say... it's good to drop in once in a while.... I'm a busy man these days.

What keeps you so busy? It was fun to watch you and Avatar make the atheists grow up.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Not even a good dodge.

So you think it's okay the bible advocates smashing babies heads on rocks?

You can't even read a psalm. You aren't qualified to have a religious discussion.

But you won't let that stop you from flailing around.

Well, no. That Psalm is pretty clear to me. The Bible thinks it's okay that the Judeans wanted to see the heads of their enemies babies smashed against rocks because THEY lost a war they started.

Heck, one can even be sympathetic to the Babylonians. They beat down the Jews in 697 BCE, and not learning their lesson, they started up some shit again in 687 BCE.

Sorry, the old "Well, you're taking that out of context" argument doesn't work, because there's no context the thing sounds good in.

You're also talking about some songwriter who wrote the Psalms. I don't believe that such revenge against the Babylonians is inspired of God. The council of Nicea decided to put the Bible together. They were a bunch of hacks who were not inspired of God, so the Bible needs to be taken as is and not as some all knowing Being. The Bible is inspired of God when it is translated correctly and when certain parts are removed/put back.

 

[Truthspeaker]

About four seconds worth. They never actually saw the golden plates.

But . . . I am glad to see that you dropped in.

So you say... it's good to drop in once in a while.... I'm a busy man these days.

What keeps you so busy? It was fun to watch you and Avatar make the atheists grow up.

Well those kids are out of my league and I had some free time so I thought I'd make another blip on the radar. I've been working really hard lately plus I have four kids and many activities which take me away from my computer.
I don't know when I'll be back but I'll try to stick around as much as I can.