The Truth about Mormons

[Eightball]

Jesus said, "Go and do thou likewise."
Jesus states in Matthew chapter 5 verse 48"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect."
Why would Jesus command us to do something impossible? Because he wants us to try, then his grace will do the rest.

You still don't get it. Jesus' admonition wasn't to Christians. Their were know Christians before Pentacost.

He was talking to the "Walking Dead" I.E. unsaved Jews, and possibly some gentiles thrown sprinkled in.

Go thee there for and be perfect......was His admonition that would be fullfilled at the Cross. Was Abraham's Righteousness bestowed upon him because He was perfect? Hardly. Abraham did a lot of sinful things. He even tried to pawn off his wife to a man he feared as his sister. Abraham, never the less, believed, and God counted it to Abraham's account as righteousness. Was Abrahan righteous because he followed a recipe of works, by taking Isaac up the mountain and taking Isaac's life? Righteousness is a "standing" which God bestows, not by works, but by faith, that may be revealed or displayed both by action, and verbal statement or committment, involving the will, or chooser of man.

When Christ said be perfect, He well knew that they could not be perfect, just as Paul said the that the Law leads to death, because no man can obey the law to perfection, but will indeed fail somewhere, and thence is condemned by the law.

Jesus came and fullfilled the requirements of the laws perfection requirement from birth to death. He was sinless at birth, sinned-not throughout the entirety of His life. Thence He fullfilled the requirements of the Law. Yet He died in our place, because we humans could not fullfill the requirement of the law.

His admonition to be perfect, was His way to show man that futility of trying to be good to please God. They could not, and would never in their own strength. Gods righteousness upon man is judicial, and positional. When you abide or commit and believe that Jesus is "Lord" of you life, you are asceding by your will and accepting that you are 2nd, and Christ is first. By willfulling making Christ first, you are acknowledging that you are a sinner, you are incapable of saving yourself, you are fallible, and weak. Now, it is God who meets you. Just as the Prodigal son was a distance from his father who was scanning the horizon for him, it was his father who ran to meet his son.

When we willfully seek God, through Jesus's life, with a contrite, and repentant heart, God "meet's" us at the point; often called "hitting bottom". In fact if you viewed a few AA meetings you'd know what "hitting bottom" means. It's when a human being hits a point in their life where there's no further they can fall. It's the gutter literally or in a sense that's just as dreadful and sad. That is when we are trully ready to accept God's requirements for establishing an eternal and blessed relationship with Him. God accepts us into His fold when we give our lives to His Son who fullfilled the requirements of the law to every jot and tittle. That which not one human being can.

Doing "good" works to please God, is an endless treadmill, that never ends. It is a life of physical, emotional, mental, and soulical exhaustion. I heart cries inside, when these clean cut young men and women come to my door, while often working their "missions" with an elder at their side to bail them out of they get rattled or confused trying to fullfill their churches evangelical requirements of the rest of the word. J.W.'s likewise, are very unsure of their standing or salvation. Them must hit door after door and try, try, try, to make converts.

The rate of per-capita alcoholism with active, and innactive, LDS members, and J.W.'s is way off the chart, compared to average Joe and Jane Americans. Why?

When we personally hold ourselves accountable to continue a life of making both peace and strides towards greater alleged perfection, and pleasing of our Creator, we will inevitably fall off the wagon. Burn-out, with LDS members is rampant. The Pharisees of Jesus' time absolutely held the average Jew in bondage to "works" in order to "please" Jehovah.

Jesus, said, "Come unto me as or like children". Children don't have anything to offer a Mom and Dad, but love......A relational, tight, love! Jesus didn't say, "Do a good turn daily(B.Scout Slogan)) and I will extend my love to you and then you'll be a pleasure to Me.

My father and I had a very close relationship. When I was a little boy, I had chores to do. Sometimes I tried to get away without doing my chores and my Dad got after me. Did my dad cease to be my Dad because I disobeyed? No! Did my Dad cease to love me, because I disobeyed? No! Did I cease to be my Dad's son, because I disobeyed? No!

That is how it is with our biblical God's relationship with every bonafide Christian. Once saved, He hopes and prods us to do works or bear fruit in accordance with our sonship and incredible relationship with Him. In fact Paul said that we can call Him Abba, or Daddy! Yes, Christians can call God, "My Daddy in heaven!". It's that close, that intimate!

As a Christian, the Holy Spirit that indwells my soul like all other true Christians, might urge me deep withing to do certain things. Maybe it's serving in a Rescue soup kitchen. Maybe, it's bringing food to my neighbor who is sick or lost a job and doesn't have much money?

Maybe, it's spending more time with my kids and not watching Monday night football? Whatever the case, God urges us to do things in our life that Glorify Him, not us!

Our lives should cause people to wonder what makes us tick. A Christian's life should be more and more Christlike as he or she matures and grows, through the chastening that God will allow in our lives.

Perfection is a gift from God. Perfection is a title or honor that God bestowes upon those that have appropriated their lives in total to Christ, and have accepted His life in a humble surrendered committment. God looks upon all of those who have believed on His Son as their Saviour and Lord, as "justified" or "Righteous" before Him. Does this mean that we no longer sin. No! What it does mean is that are "standing" is strong and totally immovable before God. He accepts us, with our dirty, sin-stained clothing, as, acceptable. Jesus paid our unpayable debt of sin. God sees the bill, as "Paid in full by the blood of My Son.".

Be Perfect..........Jesus knew they couldn't........He was preparing them for His rescue, and for His perfection that would soon be bestowed on them, in standing.

A son is a son know matter what a son does. A son can do any and all dispicable things, but he can't sever his sonship.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Well you are allowed your interpretation of the bible, that's great, I don't see the logic of your interpretation but we will have to agree to disagree. To me it is plain and simple, be perfect means do the best you can and Jesus will purge out the imperfections. Nothing else makes sense to me. I see it one way and you another.We are not going to agree and I am not trying to swerve you my way. Anyone have any new questions about what we believe?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well you are allowed your interpretation of the bible, that's great, I don't see the logic of your interpretation but we will have to agree to disagree. To me it is plain and simple, be perfect means do the best you can and Jesus will purge out the imperfections. Nothing else makes sense to me. I see it one way and you another.We are not going to agree and I am not trying to swerve you my way. Anyone have any new questions about what we believe?

Really? So, in your religion, you are able to stop trying to fix yourself by learning and knowledge, because you people believe that Yeshua is going to fix you?

Way to cop out on responsibility dude.

 

[Eightball]

Well you are allowed your interpretation of the bible, that's great, I don't see the logic of your interpretation but we will have to agree to disagree. To me it is plain and simple, be perfect means do the best you can and Jesus will purge out the imperfections. Nothing else makes sense to me. I see it one way and you another.We are not going to agree and I am not trying to swerve you my way. Anyone have any new questions about what we believe?

Fortunately, I can see and understand your way, and blessedly see many other ways, as well as the one that I shared previously.

I can compare them all to the bible, and see a clear answer.

You are confused or don't want to understand the way that I explained.

You see, cultists trully don't have freedom. They think they do, but they are held in the paradym of their doctrine, and are afraid to look otherwise.

A Christian who is strong in their faith, can walk into a bar, shoot a rack of billiards with a bunch of rough and tumble folks, and see these people through Jesus' eyes.

Jesus invited Himself to dine with Zacheus, a sinner of the 10th degree. He/Jesus was chastised for that by the "religious" folks. Jesus saw a man in bondage to sin, but He also saw a man you needed a life preserver, and Jesus who said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light, and no man cometh to the Father but through Me." saw deep into Zacheus's soul. He didn't see hardness, but a heart that was ready to accept salvation, and was crying out for meaning, and acceptance.

You see, your faith says, "Be careful, don't dirty yourself around the bad sinful influences of the world.". It is scared to high heavens to love a Hells Angel, or a man laying in the gutter with an empty bottle of rot gut gin.

Your religion wants converts, wants lots of tithing, wants total and absolute obedience to it's elders, and also wants it's converts to totally not think independently when it comes to investigating the merits of other faiths, or systems of belief.

Your church has told you what is right and what is wrong. On the other side, the bible has laid out to every man, woman and child what is Godly, and what is sin.

The one "corker" with the bible is that it is Spiritually discerned. That is why people read a little of it and then put it down, and scratch their collective heads. One must be prompted by the H. S. and also have the counsel of the H. S., to discern the meaning/intent of God's scripture. It was authored by God the Father, who is Spirit, and must be understood while one is abiding in the Spirit.

For non-Christians, the bible seems like a dry old book in many cases. For the true Christian, the words within it's pages are like a fresh, warm, piece of delicious bread, fresh out of the oven to the soul or inner man.

Doing good deeds doesn't add one bean to a hill of gold in God's economy. It's just part of man's endless struggle to appease, please, pleasure, what they have self interpretted as their creator or god.

In true Christianity, it is a level playing field. Elders aren't to be respected or venerated anymore than one who is not an elder. In fact Timothy succinctly said that those who are appointed to positions in the church should be those that are of the most humble in the faith, living lives that are a glory to God. Men not overly fond of strong drink, nor one's that live rowdy lives.

Never the less, in God's eyes, the New Christian is as precious to Him as the one who has been saved for many years.

The heirarchy of the priesthood in the Mormon religion reeks of pride, and self accomplishment, and is an abomination to God. The bible says that every believer is already part of a very, very, God bestowed, royal priesthood, not of man's making, but of God's making. Not a result of deeds done, nor of taking oaths or doing rituals, or being specially chosen to have great secrets revealed to them. All of that is out of the wild imaginations of J.S. Jr. and Brigham Young.

What God gives to the new Christian, He gives to the mature old Christian; son and daughtership via absolute, and unrevocable adoption into His life.

"Peace I give you."........And that He does. He gives us inner peace through the challenges of life, that the world does not know nor comprehend. It caused early Christians to stand in the Roman colliseum and not resist or clammer for life when lions were released upon them.

That's because they knew they were secure beyond death. Death was no longer a might "sting" to the Christian. Jesus had taken the might "sting", and laid it to rest in the ground, and walked out of the tomb.

Christians receive the life of Christ when saved. That life of Christ is a "risen" life, not a life that's still crucified, nor still in the tomb.

I have the toughest time listening even to Christian preachers that will tell us to do this or that "For God".

God doesn't want us to do anything "For Him". He doesn't need us to do what He can "speak" into being in total.

Here's where it's at. God wants us to do things that glorify Him but it's to be done in God's empowerment, not our man inspired methods. "Thy will be done.".......Thats where it's at.

When we are totally surrendered to God as trully born again, Holy Spirit indwelt people, God will prod and move us in our soul to proceed along in life making choices in concert with His Spirit's urging and His will.

Gideon learned a big lesson in the O.T., when he started with an army of 30,000 men to face the Phillistines. By the time God had finished with Gideon, he had 300 men to face thousands of Phillistines.

The Phillistines were defeated, but Gideon finally realized by what power, and might they were defeated.

All of us, both men, and women, must learn that Frank Sinatra's mantra, "I did it my way.", is how the world interprets victory, freedom, and correct living. This is not in God's economy, but trully of Lucifer's authorship.

The Mormon religion, as well as all the religions of the world have one undergirding mantra; do things to make God happy or pleased with them. In fact, it isn't a one-time thing, but must be carried on constantly right the day we take our last breath. On the contrary, Jesus said, "Taking my life is like removing one montrous, heavy backpack."........."My Yoke is easy" We know what a yoke was/is. It sat upon an oxen's shoulder's and was a very heavy beam of formed/carved wood that held the beast paired with another in it's very hard, hard work.

The Christian life is not "easy". No where in the bible does it say it's easy. What is does say is that man's striving to reach or please God, is over. "It is finished". Manmade religions hold it's adherents in bondage by ignoring the "finished" work of Christ, but adding to it with do's and don'ts in order to please God, who is already pleased with what His Son did in our stead.

The persecution that Mormons endure at times is not because they are following God's will. Persecution because one is God's child is a result of bravely standing for what God says is the truth, and not following the worlds ways.

Much flak received by Mormons is because their belief system creates a prideful exclusivity, and also harbors abherrent beliefs, that even non-Christians find revolting.

God has placed withing every human being a knowledge that their is a Creator. Atheist just fight that inner knowledge through their God given free-will. Never the less, man is without excuse.

Mormons are loved by true Christians, but also pitied. Christians shouldn't slam their doors in the faces of Mormons or J.W.'s, but should dialogue with them and prayerfully interject God's biblical truths to them when and where they can. Most of all, Christians need to pray for these people, who work so hard, endlessing peddling bicycles door to door, and doing all kinds of missions trips in order to became better Mormons.

In God's economy, a believer has arrived, can't become better in God's eyes, but does have some maturing in the faith ahead. It is not through works that we are saved, but works must indeed follow one's conversion. It will follow in God's timing as He works on each and every unique life that becomes His adopted child forever.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Once again, We don't see it the way you do.
you should probably go start your own church because I am sure there are some who believe as you do. There are many who do not. It seems more like you are seeking converts with your sermons. I am not giving sermons here. Only answering questions about my beliefs. Go do whatever you want with your religion and I will do the same. But you aren't convincing me because I see the scriptures in a different light than you do, and because you seem to be convinced and I am definitely convinced of my religion then we aren't going to get anywhere. I am not debating my religion. It is not up for debate with me. go debate with someone else who isn't sure about what they believe.
I am here to answer questions. YOu don't have any questions. You only have preconceived notions about what we believe.

 

[ABikerSailor]

However.......only blind crazy people see it like you do TS.

 

[Truthspeaker]

whatever dude, your opinion means nothing to me.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Just like your opinion and religion equally mean nothing to me. You are a cultist following a false religion, trying to tell everyone else that THEIR religion is wrong because it doesn't jibe with the false prophet Smith and the demon Mornoni.

Nope.....mormons are just as bad as muslims.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Just like your opinion and religion equally mean nothing to me. You are a cultist following a false religion, trying to tell everyone else that THEIR religion is wrong because it doesn't jibe with the false prophet Smith and the demon Moron-i.

Neat thing? Ya spell it backwards and it's I-Moron.

Nope.....mormons are just as bad as muslims.

 

[Avatar4321]

Just like your opinion and religion equally mean nothing to me. You are a cultist following a false religion, trying to tell everyone else that THEIR religion is wrong because it doesn't jibe with the false prophet Smith and the demon Mornoni.

Nope.....mormons are just as bad as muslims.

Why would you be part of a religion that you believed was wrong?

You're trying to make the argument that somehow people are wrong for believing they are following the truth simply because it means they believe others are not. It's a fact of life that some things are true and others are false. That doesnt trying to show people what the truth is is wrong or believing you have found it is wrong.

Your whole idea is absurd.

 

[Avatar4321]

Just like your opinion and religion equally mean nothing to me. You are a cultist following a false religion, trying to tell everyone else that THEIR religion is wrong because it doesn't jibe with the false prophet Smith and the demon Moron-i.

Neat thing? Ya spell it backwards and it's I-Moron.

Nope.....mormons are just as bad as muslims.

Actually spelled backwards it would be Inorom.

But then considering the depth of your arguments, I'm not really surprised you got it wrong.

 

[Skeptik]

trying to tell everyone else that THEIR religion is wrong

Where has TS done that? He has done a good job of explaining Mormon doctrine. I'm not sure just where he has told you your religion is wrong.

 

[Avatar4321]

Where has TS done that? He has done a good job of explaining Mormon doctrine. I'm not sure just where he has told you your religion is wrong.

excellent point. I havent seen that either. But then i dont see a problem with someone telling me my religion is wrong or telling anyone else that either. I dont think its some great sin to be confident in what you believe in and want to share that with someone.

 

[Truthspeaker]

At last it is good to hear a rational thought process on this thread. This 8 ball and sailor can't seem to get enough of trying to harass me. I never started this thread to quarrel over right and wrong. My mind is made up. I am a solid believer in our faith. If you think that I am stupid or guilty of worshipping falsely, then that is your prerogotive.
I just want to answer questions and clear up the truth of what we believe.
For example people are not sure as to our doctrine on polygamy. I have answered those questions.
People have thought we were racists because of the priesthood not being available to them before 1978, I have explained why.
People have asked me how could Joseph have lifted pure gold plates that were so heavy, I have explained this also.
People ask why do we abstain from alcohol, drugs, tobacco, coffee and tea and I have answered those.
Perhaps someone would want to ask why changes were made in the Book of Mormon, rather than condemn the book of mormon for it's changes. They may want to ask, what were the changes, and did they affect the doctrine of the book?
Some may ask, why do you believe that a 14 year old boy saw God?
Such would be good critical and honest questions that I could answer or any of that sort.
Some people feel the need and cannot restrain themselves from an attack even though they haven't heard the explanations that would destroy their preconcieved notions about our church. When people ask, they will get honest answers from me. If they feel they need to launch a doctrinal offensive, they will only receive a reply from me that states, we don't interpret doctrine the way you do.

I can state our church's official position on pretty much every subject. If you ask me the church's official stance on things where there is no official stance, I will state so, like if you ask if we believe that Adam had a belly button or not, or what sexual acts are permitted in marriage, or the exact location of Kolob. There are many mysteries and questions which we will just have to wait for and are not important for our salvation.

 

[ABikerSailor]

TS, whenever someone has refuted your claims, you have just simply said "You believe this way, I believe that way" without bothering to fully explain.

From what you HAVE explained, I believe that your religion is a screwed up cult, as well as the things that I've seen on the news that were connected with the Mormon church.

Nope.....I stand by my opinions, and if the rest of you don't like it, remember, it's a free country. I know that because I spent 20 years defending it......what have the rest of you done?

 

[Skeptik]

From what you HAVE explained, I believe that your religion is a screwed up cult, as well as the things that I've seen on the news that were connected with the Mormon church.

Nope.....I stand by my opinions, and if the rest of you don't like it, remember, it's a free country. I know that because I spent 20 years defending it......what have the rest of you done?

It is your privilege to believe that Mormonism is a "screwed up cult" if you want. All TS wants to do is to give you the facts, so that whatever opinion you form is based on knowledge, rather than on urban legends. Yes, indeed, it is a free country, at least for now. Thank you for defending her!

 

[ABikerSailor]

It is your privilege to believe that Mormonism is a "screwed up cult" if you want. All TS wants to do is to give you the facts, so that whatever opinion you form is based on knowledge, rather than on urban legends. Yes, indeed, it is a free country, at least for now. Thank you for defending her!

First off TS is a dude.

Yes....it IS a free country.

But, according to the things that I've studied and seen, Mormonism is a derivative of other religions, and it lies about some of the ways it uses the things it borrows from other religions.

But......I guess you think that freedom of speech, also means freedom to lie.

 

[Avatar4321]

TS, whenever someone has refuted your claims, you have just simply said "You believe this way, I believe that way" without bothering to fully explain.

From what you HAVE explained, I believe that your religion is a screwed up cult, as well as the things that I've seen on the news that were connected with the Mormon church.

Nope.....I stand by my opinions, and if the rest of you don't like it, remember, it's a free country. I know that because I spent 20 years defending it......what have the rest of you done?

We grew into mature adults.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You grew into a mature adult? Really?

Can't tell it from what you're posting here idiot.

 

[Skeptik]

First off TS is a dude.

Yes....it IS a free country.

But, according to the things that I've studied and seen, Mormonism is a derivative of other religions, and it lies about some of the ways it uses the things it borrows from other religions.

But......I guess you think that freedom of speech, also means freedom to lie.

Of course freedom of speech means freedom to lie. Who always tells the truth? That doesn't, of course, mean that someone who says something that you disagree with is lying necessarily.

And, when I said "Thank you for defending her", the pronoun "her" didn't refer back to TS. We often speak of the country in the feminine, don't we?

Whether or not you think that Mormonism is a "derivative of other religions" really is not relevant to understanding just what Mormon beliefs are, nor is it supportable from the standpoint of the religion's originator. Just how versed in comparative religions do you think Joseph Smith could have been? Sure, there are going to be similarities between any two belief systems. So what?