The Truth about Mormons

[Eightball]

Having studied it indepth, I can promise you the doctrines are the same today as they were originally. Im not sure where you are getting this idea that the doctrines have changed so many times, but it's not accurate.

But then I suppose beleving in ongoing revelation is tough for some people to accept because they get their own ideas of what things should be and when God clarifies things, they think God has changed when in reality their views of what was from God was just wrong.

Your churchs' "Ongoing Revelations" spits in the face of Jesus Christ who said 2,000 years ago, "IT IS FINISHED!".

The "IT IS FINISHED", is a Spiritually discerned statement like the rest of the bible, and I can understand your abiding in continuing revelation and change from your god.

Never the less, the bible has been proven itself archeologically sound, historically sound by both secular and theologically minded researchers. The BOM has not been validated one IOTA, with it's "New Revelations" concerning North America, the American Indians, ancient North American development of metalurgy.... etc....

I hope I might be able to crack through the difficulty here:
"IT IS FINISHED", Is about as clear and succinct as one can communicate to mankind from God Himself. What Christ did at Golgotha/Calvary is finish the job, of bridging the infinite canyon of sinful man's condition and a most Holy, pure, just/righteous God, by be the Passover Lamb or the only possible means to meet God's Holy, and Just demands of meeting the sinful nature and sins of man since their fall at Eden.

Christ took it all.

No where in the bible does it say that we can become gods in our own right, but LDS doctrine says it is possible, if one is a good Mormon man.

It was God who became human flesh/incarnate so that man could see God, and know what true Holiness, and righteousness was.

The LDS church has it as "Man can become a god or God.".....God in the bible incarnated to flesh. In the bible is the "God" title given to man, accept in a cultural sense of being special to God. Often cults will ignore the cultural, "god" connotation of man in the O.T. and say, "See, we can become like God." We do however live and act like little gods, on many occassions... Stalin, Hitler, and ourselves. Like kings of our own destinys.

No where in the bible does it say that people of the Negroid race our decendents of Caine's loins or geneology.

No where in the bible does it say that their is a "curse" on Caine's line of decendents.

No where in the bible does God promote Polygamy, though it was carried on by people of that time. We can see what happens when man disobeys God and takes another wife or sexual partner in the life of Abraham, when he/Abraham went into his slave girl and begot Ishmiel.

Solomon had nothing but headache after headache from taking multiple wives.............So did his father David.

When man decides to figure out what God's will is without the counsel of the true Holy Spirit abiding in his soul, that Jesus told(being born from above/again) the Pharisee Nicodemus about, then man will create all kinds of havoc both for himself and those around him.

You see, even Nicodemus couldn't Spiritually discern Jesus' explanation of being "born again/from above". He/Nicodemus even asked how he could go back into his mother's womb, and be born again?

Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well, that the water she drew from the well would quench one's thirst for a time and then the well water would be needed again and again. Then Jesus said, that the "Spring of water" that He offered would quench one's thirst once and for all time. The Samaritan woman was ecstatic over this chance to not have to run to the well and draw more water after drinking Jesus' source of water. She again, didn't understand the Spiritual signifigance of Jesus' water that was in actuality, the Holy Spirit/Ghost; the very Spirit of God.

Jesus fed the multitudes on more than one occassion, and that is the discrepencies of 4,000, or 5,000 mouths fed. Also the accounts of peoples being numbered only included men and not women and children in that day.

If one studies the Gospels of the N.T. closely you will see that there is no difference or contradiction with the feeding of the thousands, as the different counts of people are attributed to more than one occasion where Christ/God fed the multitudes.

Bottom Line: The LDS church can't fathom one of God's most important attributes; namely Omnipotence, which I explained to another poster, and even gave the Webster's definition of.

To need a continuing revelation of God, with additional do's and don'ts is to totally slap the face of our Saviour who was the end of all continuing speculation about the nature and will of God. The accounts by Jesus' apostles of Jesus' life, and the growth and spread of the early Christian church there after, ends with the book of Revelations, authored by John who was extremely close to Jesus during His time on on earth. The book of Revelations, inspired by God and written down by John ends with a very strong, and definite statement.

"DON'T ADD OR TAKE AWAY ONE THING FROM THIS BOOK OR ALL THE ACCOUNTS OF GOD, THE PROPHETS, AND JESUS HIMSELF"

Some like to say, that John only meant, "Don't take away or add to my particular book, Revelations, but that argument falls very short and is only propagated by detractors and non theologically trained.

The LDS church must deal with Jesus' proclamation, "IT IS FINISHED!!!!". With that proclamation the veil of the great temple that hid from the people of earth the Holy of Holies, was rent from top to bottom, symbolically telling the world that through Christ Jesus's death, man now had access to God/Holy of Holies, and didn't need anything more.

Just believe on by faith Christ as your one and only intermediator, bridge, advocate, perfect sacrifice, Passover Lamb, once and for all and you would receive the Spirit of Christ/Holy Spirit/Counselor, and access to the Holy of Holies. Even the Prophets of old would be envious of what we Christians have been given, but they/prophets will in the great end times receive their due reward for their allegiance and Faith in God Almighty.

The LDS church has added to, Christs's, "IT IS FINISHED!", with priesthood rituals, Masonic or cultic imagery symbols, secret temple oaths, magic/superstion bearing underware, and all sorts of things that God of the bible totally forbid. Just as witchcraft was totally forbidden of God, the LDS church has dressed up this occult practice with white linen, and has duped millions of human beings.

There will be a finally reckoning for those who add too Christ's finished work, and propagate, other gospels, that claim that the Word of God is corrupt, or only accurate in as much as has been accurately handed down. This all flies in the face of God's omnipotent power, to protect His Word to His human creation.

 

[Avatar4321]

Your churchs' "Ongoing Revelations" spits in the face of Jesus Christ who said 2,000 years ago, "IT IS FINISHED!".

The "IT IS FINISHED", is a Spiritually discerned statement like the rest of the bible, and I can understand your abiding in continuing revelation and change from your god.

God's work is not done. Nor is He silent in the Heavens while one soul remains perishing. If we accepted your premise that God can not speak simply because Christ's mortal mission and His Great Atoning Sacrifice was finished, we'd have to reject the New Testament. We'd have to reject the testimony of the Apostles that Christ appeared to them and taught them after the resurrection. We would have to reject the Vision the Lord provided to the Apostle John of the work God would do in the last days. Do you honestly believe God has been silent ever since despite the testimony by the Apostles otherwise?

Never the less, the bible has been proven itself archeologically sound, historically sound by both secular and theologically minded researchers. The BOM has not been validated one IOTA, with it's "New Revelations" concerning North America, the American Indians, ancient North American development of metalurgy.... etc....

The Bible has bene proven archaelogically sound? What is the archaelogical proof of the resurrection? There is none. You dont prove that which is Spiritual with that which is physical. You prove it by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost that testifies to the soul of the individual that Christ lives and that He has saved us from death and hell. If science gave you your faith, it will take it away.

Nevertheless, you appear you have some misunderstandings. First, the Book of Mormon is the record of North America alone. In fact, textual analysis indicates Meso America as a more accurate location.

Second, the Book of Mormon does describe an accurate path from Jerusalem through the Arabian penninsula to Nahom and then to Bountiful. Which is pretty amazing considering no one knew about it until recently.

Third, Scholars have recently been learning more about Ancient American Metallurgy and it's coinciding quite nicely with the Book of Mormon.

However, it would be foolish to claim that archaelogy proves the record true. Any more archaelogy of Greece, Troy, and other areas in the Mediteranean prove that the Illiad and Oddessy really happened. There is only one way to learn whether the Book of Mormon is true, regardlesses of the evidence for it. And that's to ask God.

I hope I might be able to crack through the difficulty here:
"IT IS FINISHED", Is about as clear and succinct as one can communicate to mankind from God Himself. What Christ did at Golgotha/Calvary is finish the job, of bridging the infinite canyon of sinful man's condition and a most Holy, pure, just/righteous God, by be the Passover Lamb or the only possible means to meet God's Holy, and Just demands of meeting the sinful nature and sins of man since their fall at Eden.

Christ took it all.

No one has denied that Christ has atoned for our sins. But that doesnt change the fact that God still speaks to man and continues redeeming those who are lost and will not stop until the end.

No where in the bible does it say that we can become gods in our own right, but LDS doctrine says it is possible, if one is a good Mormon man.

True, except Christ in John 10 who testified that those who recieved the Word were gods to prove His claim of being the Son of God. And Paul, in Romans, who testified that we would become Joint Heirs with Christ and inherit all the Father has. Or Peter, in 2 Peter, who taught the Saints how to become partakers of the Divine Nature. Or John, in 1 John 3, who promised us that when He appears, we will be see Him as He is and be like Him. Or God, In Genesis, who testified that man had become as the gods knowing Good from Evil.

Through God, all things are possible.

It was God who became human flesh/incarnate so that man could see God, and know what true Holiness, and righteousness was.

Christ didnt come just for us to see God. He bled so that we could become like Him. The Son of God became a man, so men could become the sons of God.

The LDS church has it as "Man can become a god or God.".....God in the bible incarnated to flesh. In the bible is the "God" title given to man, accept in a cultural sense of being special to God. Often cults will ignore the cultural, "god" connotation of man in the O.T. and say, "See, we can become like God." We do however live and act like little gods, on many occassions... Stalin, Hitler, and ourselves. Like kings of our own destinys.

Paul was right when he said that in the last days men shall have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.

Christ didnt atone for our sins for us to become perfect in Christ only to reject His offer.

No where in the bible does it say that people of the Negroid race our decendents of Caine's loins or geneology.

No where in the bible does it say that their is a "curse" on Caine's line of decendents.

Im sure the Southern Baptists of the 19th century would disagree with you. But then I am not too worried about that because no where mormon scriptures does it make that claim either.

No where in the bible does God promote Polygamy, though it was carried on by people of that time. We can see what happens when man disobeys God and takes another wife or sexual partner in the life of Abraham, when he/Abraham went into his slave girl and begot Ishmiel.

Solomon had nothing but headache after headache from taking multiple wives.............So did his father David.

Except in the lives of the great Patriarchs. and the Law of Moses. and of course in the life of David when God says He gave David all his wives.

God blessed Abraham through Ishmael. Does God usually bless the disobedient in their sins?

When man decides to figure out what God's will is without the counsel of the true Holy Spirit abiding in his soul, that Jesus told(being born from above/again) the Pharisee Nicodemus about, then man will create all kinds of havoc both for himself and those around him.

You see, even Nicodemus couldn't Spiritually discern Jesus' explanation of being "born again/from above". He/Nicodemus even asked how he could go back into his mother's womb, and be born again?

Nicodemus learned though. I cannot tell whether he eventually exercised faith in Christ and repented. Or if he was eventually baptized with water and the Spirit. But he did learn.

Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well, that the water she drew from the well would quench one's thirst for a time and then the well water would be needed again and again. Then Jesus said, that the "Spring of water" that He offered would quench one's thirst once and for all time. The Samaritan woman was ecstatic over this chance to not have to run to the well and draw more water after drinking Jesus' source of water. She again, didn't understand the Spiritual signifigance of Jesus' water that was in actuality, the Holy Spirit/Ghost; the very Spirit of God.

Im not sure you are correct here. I think the water He was teaching her about was Himself. Not the Holy Spirit. Because Christ is the Bread of life. He is the everlasting waters.

Jesus fed the multitudes on more than one occassion, and that is the discrepencies of 4,000, or 5,000 mouths fed. Also the accounts of peoples being numbered only included men and not women and children in that day.

If one studies the Gospels of the N.T. closely you will see that there is no difference or contradiction with the feeding of the thousands, as the different counts of people are attributed to more than one occasion where Christ/God fed the multitudes.

Not really seeing anyone disagreeing with you here. So I am not sure what point you are trying to make in acting like there is someone disagreeing with you here. Christ fed the multitudes. He showed them His power.

Bottom Line: The LDS church can't fathom one of God's most important attributes; namely Omnipotence, which I explained to another poster, and even gave the Webster's definition of.

I dont see how anything you've said before proves this assertion.

To need a continuing revelation of God, with additional do's and don'ts is to totally slap the face of our Saviour who was the end of all continuing speculation about the nature and will of God. The accounts by Jesus' apostles of Jesus' life, and the growth and spread of the early Christian church there after, ends with the book of Revelations, authored by John who was extremely close to Jesus during His time on on earth. The book of Revelations, inspired by God and written down by John ends with a very strong, and definite statement.

I disagree. to deny continuing revelation when the scriptures testify of it throughout the lives of the Apostles ridiculous. To deny the spirit of prophecy when it is no less than the testimony of Jesus Christ demonstrates a lack of understanding of the power of God. The Book of Revelation testifies that there will be two prophets in the last days protecting Jerusalem with the power of Heaven. and you want to deny that God is silent. Im sorry it just doesnt mesh.

BTW You do realize that Revelation was not the last book of the Bible written dont you?

"DON'T ADD OR TAKE AWAY ONE THING FROM THIS BOOK OR ALL THE ACCOUNTS OF GOD, THE PROPHETS, AND JESUS HIMSELF"

Some like to say, that John only meant, "Don't take away or add to my particular book, Revelations, but that argument falls very short and is only propagated by detractors and non theologically trained.

Theologically trained? Who cares about being Theologically trained when you can be trained by the Holy Spirit?

John was speaking of the Book of Revelation. You can tell because if we accept your interpretation he condemned himself when he wrote his Gospel and Epistles afterwards.

The Book of Deuteronmy and Proverbs says the same thing. Should we discount all revelation after? There was no Bible when Revelation was written. It wasnt finished. And after it was finished it wasnt compiled into a single volume for centuries following. Our modern Bible canon didnt even exist until the Protestant Reformation.

Your interpretation is just not plausible.

Let's not forget that Revelation itself testifies that the Lord would send an Angel carrying the everlasting Gospel to men.

The LDS church must deal with Jesus' proclamation, "IT IS FINISHED!!!!". With that proclamation the veil of the great temple that hid from the people of earth the Holy of Holies, was rent from top to bottom, symbolically telling the world that through Christ Jesus's death, man now had access to God/Holy of Holies, and didn't need anything more.

Again. The Church of Jesus Christ boldly testifies that Christ's atonement and mortal ministry was complete when He said that. But according to the countless prophecies of God's work in the last days, God has restored His Church to teach and prepare the world for His coming.

Just believe on by faith Christ as your one and only intermediator, bridge, advocate, perfect sacrifice, Passover Lamb, once and for all and you would receive the Spirit of Christ/Holy Spirit/Counselor, and access to the Holy of Holies. Even the Prophets of old would be envious of what we Christians have been given, but they/prophets will in the great end times receive their due reward for their allegiance and Faith in God Almighty.

Interesting point, how do you have access to the Holy of Holies when there is no Temple you acknowledge?

I am pretty confident that the Prophets of old are quite content with the reward they have already recieved the Atonement and resurrection. Their only concern now would be that their descendents also recieve the blessings they are entitled to. But Im not sure you really understand what we have been promised. Few do. I know I don't.

The LDS church has added to, Christs's, "IT IS FINISHED!", with priesthood rituals, Masonic or cultic imagery symbols, secret temple oaths, magic/superstion bearing underware, and all sorts of things that God of the bible totally forbid. Just as witchcraft was totally forbidden of God, the LDS church has dressed up this occult practice with white linen, and has duped millions of human beings.

You really need to read the Old Testament sometime. You honestly dont think God has priesthood? Or ordinances? what do you call baptism and the laying on of hands? Isaiah prophecied that man would break the everlasting covenant and change the ordinances, yet we are to believe God has no ordinances? Paul testified of both Aaronic and Melchesidek Priesthoods and yet God has no priesthood? The Gospels taught that the people marveled because Christ taught with authority. That he gave others this authority. Paul testified that Christ called Apostles, prophets, Pastors, teachers, etc. And yet we are supposed to believe the Bible totally forbids this?

This is exactly what Paul mean when He said men have a form of godliness by deny the power thereof.

There will be a finally reckoning for those who add too Christ's finished work, and propagate, other gospels, that claim that the Word of God is corrupt, or only accurate in as much as has been accurately handed down. This all flies in the face of God's omnipotent power, to protect His Word to His human creation.

Are you honestly suggesting that the scriptures are accurate where people have changed them? That just doesnt make any sense.

God has made no promise to keep the Bible without error. Nor has He declared Himself silent. Why would God change His modus operendi after thousands of years? You look to the dead for the words of Christ, and the words of our forefathers are very useful tools in coming to Christ. But the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is God of the living. He speaks with the living. Not just through the dead.

Do you deny the gifts of the Spirit as well? Its obvious you already deny the gift of revelation and prophecy? Has healing been done away with? What about the gift of tongues? The gift of Discernment?

Honestly, I think Ill take my chances believing in the revelations God still provides mankind. Ill take my chances believing in and testifying of the Book of Mormon because it's true and it brings people to Christ. Ill take my chances believing in the Bible but not making an idol out of it to prevent me from coming to God on His own terms. Im not going to tempt God by denying His power to act now.

 

[Truthspeaker]

TS, whenever someone has refuted your claims, you have just simply said "You believe this way, I believe that way" without bothering to fully explain.

From what you HAVE explained, I believe that your religion is a screwed up cult, as well as the things that I've seen on the news that were connected with the Mormon church.

Nope.....I stand by my opinions, and if the rest of you don't like it, remember, it's a free country. I know that because I spent 20 years defending it......what have the rest of you done?

What part have I not fully explained? I could explain our interpretation if you like but I won't debate it. And well I guess I will have to concede that there is no arguing with the news. It's completely the truth and there are no hidden agendas and both sides of the story are always told on TV.


and good for you and your service to our country. But I don't think you need to be an officer or a soldier to support freedom.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Then I think according to your standards, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot be a cult. Because at the essence of the it's teachings is to ask questions and learn from God. In fact, no one can be baptized into the Church until they do this.



This is the promise that comes with the Book of Mormon. That the Lord will reveal through revelation it's veracity.

In fact, Joseph Smith's own account tells that he the reason he was on the path he was on is because he had questions none of the local denominations could answer and eventually came accross James 1:5-6 stating that if any man lack wisdom he could ask God.

In fact, it's a long standing mormon commandment to ask questions and to learn:





One of the first things Joseph Smith did after organizing the Church and after moving to Kirtland was to organize a school. The School of the Prophets as it was called was a place where the various leaders could meet and learn not only doctrine but other things as well. They had Hebrew lessons because Joseph wanted to be able to understand the Bible in the original Hebrew.

And the most reoccuring theme taught is not to believe just because they said something but to go and find out from God yourself. There has never been a request for blind obedience. Brigham Young stated:



In fact, several prominent Latter-day Saints have spoken against "blind obedience"







Now I know I've said a lot. But I am sure you can see from Latter-day Saint scripture and leaders that there is absolute encouragement of finding out and learning the truth for oneself. In fact, its an absolute fear of the Apostles that people will blindly obey and not rely on the Spirit for discernment.

Man cannot be saved in ignorance. That is why the Apostle Peter taught us to add knowledge to our faith.

 

[Truthspeaker]

These absurd comments indicate an ignorance of the development of early Christianity. Early Christians formed into multiple sects that made modern sect divisions appear trivial and petty. Each sect had their own books purporting to be written by disciples of Jesus, with alternate sects claiming that Jesus was wholly divine or that he was wholly human, claiming that there was one god, two gods, ten gods, or even three hundred and sixty five gods.

Then again, you are audacious enough to supply "evidence" that allegedly proves the veracity of the Bible, while ignoring evidence that disproves it, as well as textual criticism which documents the scribal additions to this "infallible" book, so it is not surprising that you would be unaware of this.

The Bible is not an infallible book. I know the history of how it came to be and the hundreds of years of lack of prophets and apostles to help cannonize the book. A Pagan Roman emperor oversaw the compilation of the Bible. Enough said about the infallibility of it.
As I have said before, it is amazing that anything is left of the Bible. What we do have now needs to be authoritatively interpreted, because as there are thousands of churches that teach different doctrines, there are thousands of interpretations of man.

 

[Truthspeaker]

oh ok

You might like our view on faith and how it is obtained. It is in harmony with the Bible but very refreshing. It is also an instruction on how to gain spiritual knowledge. Alma chapter 32 states in verse 21 And now as I said concerning faith—afaith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye bhope for things which are cnot seen, which are true.
22 And now, behold, I say unto you, and I would that ye should remember, that God is amerciful unto all who believe on his name; therefore he desireth, in the first place, that ye should believe, yea, even on his word.
23 And now, he imparteth his word by angels unto men, yea, anot only men but women also. Now this is not all; little bchildren do have words given unto them many times, which cconfound the wise and the learned.
24 And now, my beloved brethren, as ye have desired to know of me what ye shall do because ye are afflicted and cast out—now I do not desire that ye should suppose that I mean to judge you only according to that which is true—
25 For I do not mean that ye all of you have been compelled to humble yourselves; for I verily believe that there are some among you who awould humble themselves, let them be in whatsoever circumstances they might.
26 Now, as I said concerning faith—that it was not a perfect knowledge—even so it is with my words. Ye cannot know of their surety at first, unto perfection, any more than faith is a perfect knowledge.
27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than adesire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.
28 Now, we will compare the word unto a aseed. Now, if ye give place, that a bseed may be planted in your cheart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your dunbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to eenlighten my funderstanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.
29 Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge.
30 But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow.
31 And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own alikeness.
32 Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.
33 And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good.
34 And now, behold, is your aknowledge bperfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your cfaith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your dmind doth begin to expand.
35 O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is alight; and whatsoever is light, is bgood, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good; and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect?
36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.
37 And behold, as the tree beginneth to grow, ye will say: Let us nourish it with great care, that it may get root, that it may grow up, and bring forth fruit unto us. And now behold, if ye nourish it with much care it will get root, and grow up, and bring forth fruit.
38 But if ye aneglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.
39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your aground is bbarren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.
40 And thus, if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the atree of life.
41 But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith with great diligence, and with apatience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold it shall be a tree bspringing up unto everlasting life.
42 And because of your adiligence and your faith and your patience with the word in nourishing it, that it may take root in you, behold, by and by ye shall pluck the bfruit thereof, which is most precious, which is sweet above all that is sweet, and which is white above all that is white, yea, and pure above all that is pure; and ye shall feast upon this fruit even until ye are filled, that ye hunger not, neither shall ye thirst.
43 Then, my brethren, ye shall areap the brewards of your faith, and your diligence, and patience, and long-suffering, waiting for the tree to bring forth cfruit unto you.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Your churchs' "Ongoing Revelations" spits in the face of Jesus Christ who said 2,000 years ago, "IT IS FINISHED!".

The "IT IS FINISHED", is a Spiritually discerned statement like the rest of the bible, and I can understand your abiding in continuing revelation and change from your god.

Never the less, the bible has been proven itself archeologically sound, historically sound by both secular and theologically minded researchers. The BOM has not been validated one IOTA, with it's "New Revelations" concerning North America, the American Indians, ancient North American development of metalurgy.... etc....

I hope I might be able to crack through the difficulty here:
"IT IS FINISHED", Is about as clear and succinct as one can communicate to mankind from God Himself. What Christ did at Golgotha/Calvary is finish the job, of bridging the infinite canyon of sinful man's condition and a most Holy, pure, just/righteous God, by be the Passover Lamb or the only possible means to meet God's Holy, and Just demands of meeting the sinful nature and sins of man since their fall at Eden.

Christ took it all.

No where in the bible does it say that we can become gods in our own right, but LDS doctrine says it is possible, if one is a good Mormon man.

It was God who became human flesh/incarnate so that man could see God, and know what true Holiness, and righteousness was.

The LDS church has it as "Man can become a god or God.".....God in the bible incarnated to flesh. In the bible is the "God" title given to man, accept in a cultural sense of being special to God. Often cults will ignore the cultural, "god" connotation of man in the O.T. and say, "See, we can become like God." We do however live and act like little gods, on many occassions... Stalin, Hitler, and ourselves. Like kings of our own destinys.

No where in the bible does it say that people of the Negroid race our decendents of Caine's loins or geneology.

No where in the bible does it say that their is a "curse" on Caine's line of decendents.

No where in the bible does God promote Polygamy, though it was carried on by people of that time. We can see what happens when man disobeys God and takes another wife or sexual partner in the life of Abraham, when he/Abraham went into his slave girl and begot Ishmiel.

Solomon had nothing but headache after headache from taking multiple wives.............So did his father David.

When man decides to figure out what God's will is without the counsel of the true Holy Spirit abiding in his soul, that Jesus told(being born from above/again) the Pharisee Nicodemus about, then man will create all kinds of havoc both for himself and those around him.

You see, even Nicodemus couldn't Spiritually discern Jesus' explanation of being "born again/from above". He/Nicodemus even asked how he could go back into his mother's womb, and be born again?

Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well, that the water she drew from the well would quench one's thirst for a time and then the well water would be needed again and again. Then Jesus said, that the "Spring of water" that He offered would quench one's thirst once and for all time. The Samaritan woman was ecstatic over this chance to not have to run to the well and draw more water after drinking Jesus' source of water. She again, didn't understand the Spiritual signifigance of Jesus' water that was in actuality, the Holy Spirit/Ghost; the very Spirit of God.

Jesus fed the multitudes on more than one occassion, and that is the discrepencies of 4,000, or 5,000 mouths fed. Also the accounts of peoples being numbered only included men and not women and children in that day.

If one studies the Gospels of the N.T. closely you will see that there is no difference or contradiction with the feeding of the thousands, as the different counts of people are attributed to more than one occasion where Christ/God fed the multitudes.

Bottom Line: The LDS church can't fathom one of God's most important attributes; namely Omnipotence, which I explained to another poster, and even gave the Webster's definition of.

To need a continuing revelation of God, with additional do's and don'ts is to totally slap the face of our Saviour who was the end of all continuing speculation about the nature and will of God. The accounts by Jesus' apostles of Jesus' life, and the growth and spread of the early Christian church there after, ends with the book of Revelations, authored by John who was extremely close to Jesus during His time on on earth. The book of Revelations, inspired by God and written down by John ends with a very strong, and definite statement.

"DON'T ADD OR TAKE AWAY ONE THING FROM THIS BOOK OR ALL THE ACCOUNTS OF GOD, THE PROPHETS, AND JESUS HIMSELF"

Some like to say, that John only meant, "Don't take away or add to my particular book, Revelations, but that argument falls very short and is only propagated by detractors and non theologically trained.

The LDS church must deal with Jesus' proclamation, "IT IS FINISHED!!!!". With that proclamation the veil of the great temple that hid from the people of earth the Holy of Holies, was rent from top to bottom, symbolically telling the world that through Christ Jesus's death, man now had access to God/Holy of Holies, and didn't need anything more.

Just believe on by faith Christ as your one and only intermediator, bridge, advocate, perfect sacrifice, Passover Lamb, once and for all and you would receive the Spirit of Christ/Holy Spirit/Counselor, and access to the Holy of Holies. Even the Prophets of old would be envious of what we Christians have been given, but they/prophets will in the great end times receive their due reward for their allegiance and Faith in God Almighty.

The LDS church has added to, Christs's, "IT IS FINISHED!", with priesthood rituals, Masonic or cultic imagery symbols, secret temple oaths, magic/superstion bearing underware, and all sorts of things that God of the bible totally forbid. Just as witchcraft was totally forbidden of God, the LDS church has dressed up this occult practice with white linen, and has duped millions of human beings.

There will be a finally reckoning for those who add too Christ's finished work, and propagate, other gospels, that claim that the Word of God is corrupt, or only accurate in as much as has been accurately handed down. This all flies in the face of God's omnipotent power, to protect His Word to His human creation.

The only thing he was referring to being finished was his life and atonement that he made for mankind. That is one whopper of an interpretation you have.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I like what you say all the time Avatar. You are on the money but you may soon tire of the ignorance of some of your attackers. My fate is to stay this board because I started it. One small correction I will make, and it's totally ok.
Africans are primarily of the seed of Cain. I explained very early in this thread that they are and it has been revealed that they are. So what. We know Cain was married and had children, it is not a shame. Every last one of us has MANY MANY, BAD OR EVIL PEOPLE IN OUR LINEAGE. It has no bearing on us. I have explained the difference between the curse of cain, the mark of cain, the curse of the lamanites black skin, that no longer existed after Book of Mormon times and how the mark was a blessing and not a curse. It was somewhere between the 5th and 15th page. It is all in detail.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Ok I found the link. Man I hate going back in this thread to show people that I have answered their questions. Either they didn't read or they ignored my answers. The Blacks and Priesthood question was answered in the 221st through the 223rd posts on page 15. Maybe somebody can help teach me how to save stuff so I can pull it out of my back pocket without having to go searching through each thread individually.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I think I figured something out. http://www.usmessageboard.com/922153-post221.html

 

[Truthspeaker]

Anywhoo, I was away in Baltimore the last week and it feels good to be back and to see that I am not the only one out there that doesn't hate mormons

 

[Eightball]

Bottom line folks:

Investigate for yourselves what the Mormon Church has done with the Lord Jesus Christ of the bible.

No one comes to the Father on the shirt-tails of their Christian parents or friends..........Man was given a free-will to ponder, and to search for God.

Evaluate what Jesus says in the New Testament, and also what His 12 Apostles wrote in the many Epistles, and then compare that to the Mormon Journal of Discourses, Doctrine of Covenants, and the Book of Mormon.

You will see a most different Jesus from the bible's very clear revealing.

Did Jesus promise you that you could one day become a god? Did Jesus say that He has a spirit brother named Lucifer/Satan?

Did Jesus say that Black people are cursed?

Nuff...........said.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Bottom line folks:

Investigate for yourselves what the Mormon Church has done with the Lord Jesus Christ of the bible.

No one comes to the Father on the shirt-tails of their Christian parents or friends..........Man was given a free-will to ponder, and to search for God.

Evaluate what Jesus says in the New Testament, and also what His 12 Apostles wrote in the many Epistles, and then compare that to the Mormon Journal of Discourses, Doctrine of Covenants, and the Book of Mormon.

You will see a most different Jesus from the bible's very clear revealing.

Did Jesus promise you that you could one day become a god? Did Jesus say that He has a spirit brother named Lucifer/Satan?

Did Jesus say that Black people are cursed?

Nuff...........said.

I agree that everyone should ask all those questions. Finally I agree with you 100%
Ask and ye shall receive, Knock and it shall be opened unto you.
God will answer. That is what we always say.

 

[Avatar4321]

Bottom line folks:

Investigate for yourselves what the Mormon Church has done with the Lord Jesus Christ of the bible.

No one comes to the Father on the shirt-tails of their Christian parents or friends..........Man was given a free-will to ponder, and to search for God.

Evaluate what Jesus says in the New Testament, and also what His 12 Apostles wrote in the many Epistles, and then compare that to the Mormon Journal of Discourses, Doctrine of Covenants, and the Book of Mormon.

You will see a most different Jesus from the bible's very clear revealing.

Did Jesus promise you that you could one day become a god? Did Jesus say that He has a spirit brother named Lucifer/Satan?

Did Jesus say that Black people are cursed?

Nuff...........said.

Already answered them with scriptural references. The answers were ignored.

BTW there is no Mormon Journal of Discourses. The JoD is not scripture. Not will it ever be. It's a short hand compilation of discourses. Due to the nature of writing short hand dictation, and the fact that the speakers never editted any of the discourses, it's not reliable for doctrine. Which, of course, is the collection states that its not reliable.

I cant imagine why anyone would ignore the countless clear books of scripture adopted by the Church and then try to use unscriptural short hand accounts of unedited speeches to determine what Mormon doctrine actually is. Makes me think they couldnt find any problems with the actual revelations.

I do have to agree with one point. Dont take my word for it or anyone elses. The Book of Mormon come along with a promise that those who ask God can know for themselves by the power of the Spirit. This is true. The only reason I read and share the Book of Mormon with others is because the Holy Ghost has told me that it's true. If God revealed anything to me otherwise, Id do otherwise.

I dont know why it's so hard to accept that God lives. I wish it wasnt. I dont know whats so hard to accept that God speaks because He does. I dont know why people want so badly to keep God silent.

I don't know why people say the Bible is clear. It's not. If it was there wouldnt be thousands of different Christian sects teaching different information. Without the Holy Spirit, The matters of God are impossible to understand. You cant learn from God in a book. You learn from God from God.

Ive already demonstrated where the Bible is compatible with the many things that supposedly the Bible is inconsistant with in the Church. People can interpret passages differently. That is why God invites us to come to Him and learn. But people set up stakes. They say they will go only so far and no farther and wonder why they see no miracles. They wonder why they dont hear His voice.

God wants a nation of Prophets. People who know that Jesus is the Christ. People that know the mysteries of the Kingdom. Who actively strive to build His Kingdom on earth.

God has unspeakable blessings for those who follow Him. He grants them power and authority. Blessings from on high. Revelations, prophecies, healing, Wisdom, discernment. Angelic visitations and Personal Interviews. And those are just some of the blessings in mortality. There is so much more in the world beyond that they can't be described with our language.

I wish I could explain with my frail words even a fraction of the majesty of God. That's not where my gifts lie. At least not at the moment. But I can testify of the Light I have found studying the Gospel of Jesus Christ as found in the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. I can testify of the light Ive found in prayerful communication with the Lord.

Satan is the great deciever. He tries to imitate the Gospel to lead people astray. But he can't provide Light. He can't provide clarity. He can't provide peace in mind and heart. The fruits of the Gospel are beyond him.

Trust God, He wont lead you astray. I've never heard of a man damned for believing too much, only for unbelief.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Eightball will never be convinced, he is to interested in posting lies and half truths. He does not feel secure enough in his beliefs to survive if others may have more answers.

It is simple Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God and translated and provided for the World, the Book of Mormon. The Bible is clear, there is not one single work of God but MANY. The Book of Mormon is another work of God.

I love how Eightball keeps claiming Mormons believe the Bible is tainted or corrupted. Out right lie and he keeps repeating it. Hate does horrible things to you and he clearly hates us.

 

[Avatar4321]

Eightball will never be convinced, he is to interested in posting lies and half truths. He does not feel secure enough in his beliefs to survive if others may have more answers.

It is simple Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God and translated and provided for the World, the Book of Mormon. The Bible is clear, there is not one single work of God but MANY. The Book of Mormon is another work of God.

I love how Eightball keeps claiming Mormons believe the Bible is tainted or corrupted. Out right lie and he keeps repeating it. Hate does horrible things to you and he clearly hates us.

God can do anything my friend.

 

[Eightball]

Eightball will never be convinced, he is to interested in posting lies and half truths. He does not feel secure enough in his beliefs to survive if others may have more answers.

It is simple Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God and translated and provided for the World, the Book of Mormon. The Bible is clear, there is not one single work of God but MANY. The Book of Mormon is another work of God.

I love how Eightball keeps claiming Mormons believe the Bible is tainted or corrupted. Out right lie and he keeps repeating it. Hate does horrible things to you and he clearly hates us.

Sadly, you've followed the typical brainwashed script that the LDS church tells it's adherents.........Your persecuted, and hated.

Biblical Christians are praying all over the world for the members of your church, that they may see the light, and the scales of spiritual blindness might fall away from your precious souls.

To infer that I, hate Mormons is a travesty, and not unexpected. We/biblical Christians love the lost, who don't have a relationship with God through Christ.

We classify Mormons as lost, as they teach a gospel, that is not validated by biblical scripture. Jesus said that He and only He is the way to the Father.

Not one word of scripture relates to humanity that they, too, may reach godhood, as your church teaches.

Let it be known that everyone of my posts in rebuttle have not been from a position of hate, but of love for the lost of mankind. LDS members are not in the fold that Jesus mentions in the bible, but our definitely in a "fold", but are not His sheep. That makes me and every true Christian very sad, and pushes us more and more to reach out and attempt to reason, with your church members as well as those that aren't Mormons and do not have Christ as their one and only Lord and Savior.

You know that J.S. Jr. comes from such an unsavory background, and was never a "man of God". His death has been rewritten by your church, and you know that, as secular press accounts of his death totally refute the church's account that he was a godly man, and a true martyr.

There are so many inconsistencies in your doctrines of faith, and you also know that.

You also follow the Masonic tradition that there are many books that are inspired by God......or maps to God.

The very occult teachins of Freemasonry are written all over Mormonism.

Now you may call me a hater of Mormons, but you are very wrong. My grandma was a steaffast Mormon, in Salt Lake City, and her husband, my grandfather was an Episcapalean, and owned two saloons in Salt Lake City in the late 1800's. My Grandfather even helped build the Mormon tabernacle, and was is in the famous photo of the driving of the Golden Spike when the first transcontinental rail line was finished at Promontory Point, Utah..

I have in my possession one of my Grandfather's beer mugs that was logo'd with Pabst Blue Ribon Beer of Milwaukee, and has a picture of the Utah, Bee Hive on one side and a picture of Brigham Young on the other side. Yes, a beer mug, with Prophet Brigham Young's picture proudly caricatured on it!

Mormons, segregated themselves from non-Mormons in Salt Lake back in the early days, right into the early 1900's. My father even recollects when Mormons would choose to walk on one side of the street and not associate with non Mormons.

To be a Non-Mormon in Salt Lake City, was to receive persecution...........Not the other way around.

A good buddy of mine that worked at the Camas, Washington H.P. plant, was summarily cut out of lucrative job positions by the abundance of Mormon, H.P. employees, that had a "Good Old Boy" fraternity at that plant.

My buddy actually joined the LDS church along with his wife after that time, and then left the church as they saw so many inconsistencies with the bible.

Again, to call a person a hater, because they don't buy into your doctrine, is, the lowest, and poorest defense, and is utilized by a myriad of occult, and Christian cults to keep their members from straying.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Sadly, you've followed the typical brainwashed script that the LDS church tells it's adherents.........Your persecuted, and hated.Is it brainwashing if it's true?

Biblical Christians are praying all over the world for the members of your church, that they may see the light, and the scales of spiritual blindness might fall away from your precious souls.

To infer that I, hate Mormons is a travesty, and not unexpected. We/biblical Christians love the lost, who don't have a relationship with God through Christ.

We classify Mormons as lost, as they teach a gospel, that is not validated by biblical scripture. Jesus said that He and only He is the way to the Father.
I wish you could read the chapter in the book of mormon describing the Zoramites, you sound eerily like them. 15 Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a aspirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever.
16 Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren, which was handed down to them by the childishness of their fathers; but we believe that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children; and also thou hast made it known unto us that there shall be no Christ.
17 But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell; for the which holiness, O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish traditions of our brethren, which doth bind them down to a belief of Christ, which doth lead their hearts to wander far from thee, our God.
18 And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.
19 Now it came to pass that after Alma and his brethren and his sons had heard these prayers, they were astonished beyond all measure.
20 For behold, every man did go forth and offer up these same prayers.
21 Now the place was called by them Rameumptom, which, being interpreted, is the holy stand.
Not one word of scripture relates to humanity that they, too, may reach godhood, as your church teaches.
Not one word? How about Jesus saying, what manner of men ought ye to be, Even as I am.
Let it be known that everyone of my posts in rebuttle have not been from a position of hate, but of love for the lost of mankindI can just feel the love oozing everywhere. LDS members are not in the fold that Jesus mentions in the bible, but our definitely in a "fold", but are not His sheep. Thanks for bringing that up. John chapter 10:16 states, many other sheep I have, which are not of this fold, them must I also bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd. He then went and visited the Nephites, who were not of the fold of Jerusalem but they heard his voice and loved his gospel. That makes me and every true Christian very sad, and pushes us more and more to reach out and attempt to reason, with your church members as well as those that aren't Mormons and do not have Christ as their one and only Lord and Savior.Don't have Christ as our shepherd? Please see said scripture in blue.

You know that J.S. Jr. comes from such an unsavory backgroundA much better background than you, and was never a "man of God". Prophecies that have come to pass would state otherwise His death has been rewritten by your church,Not true and you know that,very true as secular press accounts of his death totally refute the church's account that he was a godly man, and a true martyr.How so, specifics please?

There are so many inconsistencies in your doctrines of faithYou can't even name one, and you also know that.Thank you

You also follow the Masonic tradition that there are many books that are inspired by God......or maps to God.So very true see the last verse of the book of John. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written everyone, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written

The very occult teachins of Freemasonry are written all over Mormonism.
Would more properly read, that Joseph was revealed the true meaning of the Temple ordinances and which had been corrupted and which had not
Now you may call me a hater of Mormons, but you are very wrong. My grandma was a steaffast Mormon, in Salt Lake City, and her husband, my grandfather was an Episcapalean, and owned two saloons in Salt Lake City in the late 1800's. My Grandfather even helped build the Mormon tabernacle, and was is in the famous photo of the driving of the Golden Spike when the first transcontinental rail line was finished at Promontory Point, Utah..

I have in my possession one of my Grandfather's beer mugs that was logo'd with Pabst Blue Ribon Beer of Milwaukee, and has a picture of the Utah, Bee Hive on one side and a picture of Brigham Young on the other side. Yes, a beer mug, with Prophet Brigham Young's picture proudly caricatured on it!

Mormons, segregated themselves from non-Mormons in Salt Lake back in the early days, right into the early 1900's. My father even recollects when Mormons would choose to walk on one side of the street and not associate with non Mormons.
If that has ever happened then those individuals will stand accountable for doing something Jesus would not accept from them
To be a Non-Mormon in Salt Lake City, was to receive persecution...........Not the other way around.

A good buddy of mine that worked at the Camas, WaNot that it hasn't happened but I believe that is a slight exaggerationshington H.P. plant, was summarily cut out of lucrative job positions by the abundance of Mormon, H.P. employees, that had a "Good Old Boy" fraternity at that plant.You are finally starting to admit that you have a problem with the people and are attacking them since you have no firm ground wherewith to attack the doctrine. People are not the church and people will stand accountable for their actions no matter what church they belong to.

My buddy actually joined the LDS church along with his wife after that time, and then left the church as they saw so many inconsistencies with the bible. Maybe inconsistencies with their interpretations of the bible

Again, to call a person a hater, because they don't buy into your doctrine, is, the lowest, and poorest defense, and is utilized by a myriad of occult, and Christian cults to keep their members from straying.

Whatever you say

 

[Avatar4321]

I get it. You think we are a cult. You think we are decieved simply because we dont agree with your interpretation of the scriptures but have the audacity to actually believe God speaks to man and that the Bible is not everything God has and will ever say.

It was our fault mobs chased us out of New York, out of Ohio, Out of Missouri, Out of Illinios. And despite countless efforts to help out other religious faiths in Utah when it was being settled. We somehow ended up persecuting them.

And of course, we dont have a relationship with Lord, because you said so. Despite the fact that I know my spiritual life far better than you do. You are telling me that no my relationship with my Heavenly Father is somehow invalid because I refuse to reject everything He says.

I don't have a relationship with a book. I dont worship a book. I dont deny the Spirit when He wants to say more and therefore I dont know God.

I feel impressed to quote the words of Christ when the Pharisees came to Him trying to show Him they followed the scriptures:

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Ye search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (John 5:37:40)

Come to Christ. Be humble before Him and repent of your all your sins. And He will show you things that have never been revealed. But He won't show you anything against your will. He won't show you if you refuse to let go of the notion that everything there ever was and will be is found in the Bible. The Bible doesnt support that view. Nor does the Lord God if you just ask Him.

God is a God of miracles. He spoke to men in the past. He speaks to men now. He healed men in the past. He heals them now. God has not changed. We only fail to see the miracles and recieve the blessings because of our lack of faith.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I get it. You think we are a cult. You think we are decieved simply because we dont agree with your interpretation of the scriptures but have the audacity to actually believe God speaks to man and that the Bible is not everything God has and will ever say.

It was our fault mobs chased us out of New York, out of Ohio, Out of Missouri, Out of Illinios. And despite countless efforts to help out other religious faiths in Utah when it was being settled. We somehow ended up persecuting them.

And of course, we dont have a relationship with Lord, because you said so. Despite the fact that I know my spiritual life far better than you do. You are telling me that no my relationship with my Heavenly Father is somehow invalid because I refuse to reject everything He says.

I don't have a relationship with a book. I dont worship a book. I dont deny the Spirit when He wants to say more and therefore I dont know God.

I feel impressed to quote the words of Christ when the Pharisees came to Him trying to show Him they followed the scriptures:



Come to Christ. Be humble before Him and repent of your all your sins. And He will show you things that have never been revealed. But He won't show you anything against your will. He won't show you if you refuse to let go of the notion that everything there ever was and will be is found in the Bible. The Bible doesnt support that view. Nor does the Lord God if you just ask Him.

God is a God of miracles. He spoke to men in the past. He speaks to men now. He healed men in the past. He heals them now. God has not changed. We only fail to see the miracles and recieve the blessings because of our lack of faith.