The Truth about Mormons

[JakeStarkey]

No, I am right about him hitting and killing two people. I was wrong when I said two shots. He actually did fire three before the 6-shooter malfunctioned. Joseph was a general and knew how to use a gun. He would never fire blindly. Here is the eyewitness account from John Taylor:
"I shall never forget the deep feeling of regard manifested in the countenance of brother Joseph as he drew nigh to Hyrum, and leaning over him exclaimed, 'oh my poor, dear brother Hyrum!' He, however, instantly arose, with a firm quick step, and a determined expression of countenance, pulling the six-shooter brother wheelock had left him from his pocket, opened the door slightly and snapped the pistol 6 times in succesion.Only three of the barrells however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, 2 of which I am informed, died."

And President Taylor was informed incorrectly. No one died because of Joseph.

How do we really know then if anyone died? I'm disappointed if he didn't take out a few mobsters. Oh well, it's not that important to his martyrdom anyways.

We DO know that the mobster who tried to decapitate the head of Joseph Smith was miraculously struck dead when he raised his sword to cut Joseph.

We know no such thing. We do know that JS was not separated from his head is what we do know. Truth, start checking primary sources, please.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Truth is about mormons that they are totally devoid of intelligent thoughts and live in a fantasy world populated by mental midgets and pedophiles.
Discuss.

You mean discuss again? You are awfully new to this thread to just jump in and spout off rhetoric you think I haven't heard before. If you want to show that you are not the mental midget you accuse us of being then perhaps you should start with some substance. No?

 

[Truthspeaker]

And President Taylor was informed incorrectly. No one died because of Joseph.

How do we really know then if anyone died? I'm disappointed if he didn't take out a few mobsters. Oh well, it's not that important to his martyrdom anyways.

We DO know that the mobster who tried to decapitate the head of Joseph Smith was miraculously struck dead when he raised his sword to cut Joseph.

We DO know that the mobster who tried to decapitate the head of Joseph Smith was miraculously struck dead when he raised his sword to cut Joseph.


You mormans are so full of shit. You have miricles for every occasion don't you?

Guilty as charged!

"These signs shall follow them that believe."

 

[Truthspeaker]

Actually you can talk to different Mormons from different Wards and they will give you there version of the interpretation of the book of mormon and it will be different then what the last brother or sister said. Additionally a lot of Mormons who come to Utah become disenchanted by the snootiness and cliques the Church has out here. It really depends on who you know who you talk to and how they interpret what the church says.

Well actually it doesn't depend on what interpretations people have. There are going to be a lot of mormons who will be in a lot more trouble at the judgment day than non-mormons because they fail to listen to the prophet and the official translations of all doctrines. there is no room for interpretation of official doctrines. Every thing I will say will be based on official church doctrine, otherwise I will say it is just my opinion.

Dogmas? Doctrines? Oh, Truth, you are so consisent in your inconsistency. Doctrines and dogmas change all the time in the LDS and other Mormon denominations. Just study the history.

Oh starskey! Care to follow up your claim of inconsistency with any examples. My hand is already in my back pocket

 

[Truthspeaker]

You are right about the firearm, truth, and wrong about him hitting anyone. He was firing blindly from behind the door and missed.

No, I am right about him hitting and killing two people. I was wrong when I said two shots. He actually did fire three before the 6-shooter malfunctioned. Joseph was a general and knew how to use a gun. He would never fire blindly. Here is the eyewitness account from John Taylor:
"I shall never forget the deep feeling of regard manifested in the countenance of brother Joseph as he drew nigh to Hyrum, and leaning over him exclaimed, 'oh my poor, dear brother Hyrum!' He, however, instantly arose, with a firm quick step, and a determined expression of countenance, pulling the six-shooter brother wheelock had left him from his pocket, opened the door slightly and snapped the pistol 6 times in succesion.Only three of the barrells however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, 2 of which I am informed, died."

Brother Taylor had false memory syndrome. He had been shot to doll rags in the first flurry of shots that struck him and Hyrum down. Willard Richards was attending to the LDS casaulties. No medical records or other primary source materials exist to prove your wild-eyed assertion, Truth.

I'd like to read where you got the diagnosis Dr. Starkey..... President Taylor to historical recollection was a pretty sharp cookie whether you like Mormons or not. He went on to become the leader of a very large religious people as president of the church. Of course it was just an eyewitness account. So you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.

 

[Truthspeaker]

And President Taylor was informed incorrectly. No one died because of Joseph.

How do we really know then if anyone died? I'm disappointed if he didn't take out a few mobsters. Oh well, it's not that important to his martyrdom anyways.

We DO know that the mobster who tried to decapitate the head of Joseph Smith was miraculously struck dead when he raised his sword to cut Joseph.

We know no such thing. We do know that JS was not separated from his head is what we do know. Truth, start checking primary sources, please.

We do know that this was the eyewitness testimony of people who were there. Do I have video? Sorry video wasn't invented. That is the best primary source available.

What is logical is that a hateful mob would scarcely leave the body alone if they could get their hands on it as they sworn to do and have a proven track record for mutilating the dead bodies of other Mormons they have murdered. Even digging up their bodies after they were buried to desecrate them.


Since this was the express desire of the mob to retain and mutilate Joseph's body, please explain to me how his body was laying lifeless and available at the feet of the angry mob yet they never got possession of his body and are eyewitnessed turning and fleeing the scene with no opposing force to scare them off.

the chips keep adding up. What reason do you have to disbelieve the eyewitness accounts?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Just in case you were wondering who made the report. Wikipedia has this nugget:

One eyewitness, William Daniels, wrote in his 1845 account that Smith was alive when mob members propped his body against a nearby well, assembled a makeshift firing squad, and shot him before fleeing. Daniels' account also states that one man tried to decapitate Smith for a bounty, but was prevented by divine intervention. There were additional reports that thunder and lightning frightened the mob off. Mob members fled, shouting, "The Mormons are coming," although there was no such force nearby.

Here is the actual document presented in court by William Daniels in testimony.
http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/NCMP1820-1846&CISOPTR=2812

 

[Truthspeaker]

Another nugget I hadn't heard about.

Dr. Richards' escape was miraculous; he being a very large man, and in the midst of a shower of balls, yet he stood unscathed, with the exception of a ball which grazed the tip end of the lower part of his left ear. His escape fulfilled literally a prophecy which Joseph made over a year previously, that the time would come that the balls would fly around him like hail, and he should see his friends fall on the right and on the left, but that there should not be a hole in his garment.

 

[Eightball]

Another nugget I hadn't heard about.

Dr. Richards' escape was miraculous; he being a very large man, and in the midst of a shower of balls, yet he stood unscathed, with the exception of a ball which grazed the tip end of the lower part of his left ear. His escape fulfilled literally a prophecy which Joseph made over a year previously, that the time would come that the balls would fly around him like hail, and he should see his friends fall on the right and on the left, but that there should not be a hole in his garment.

John Dillinger, and Jesse James no doubt prophesied similarly before their deaths.

It doesn't take a miracle to intuitively know that your days are numbered when you are seriously rubbing people the wrong way.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Another nugget I hadn't heard about.

Dr. Richards' escape was miraculous; he being a very large man, and in the midst of a shower of balls, yet he stood unscathed, with the exception of a ball which grazed the tip end of the lower part of his left ear. His escape fulfilled literally a prophecy which Joseph made over a year previously, that the time would come that the balls would fly around him like hail, and he should see his friends fall on the right and on the left, but that there should not be a hole in his garment.

John Dillinger, and Jesse James no doubt prophesied similarly before their deaths.

It doesn't take a miracle to intuitively know that your days are numbered when you are seriously rubbing people the wrong way.

I don't care what you think. that is an impressive prophecy to say that you would have bullets fly all around you but not be hit while you watch your friends die. A year in advance?!
That's pretty impressive. You don't have to be impressed but I am. It's just another in a long line of accurate prophecies by Joseph Smith.

 

[John Lemmon]

Truth is about mormons that they are totally devoid of intelligent thoughts and live in a fantasy world populated by mental midgets and pedophiles.
Discuss.

You mean discuss again? You are awfully new to this thread to just jump in and spout off rhetoric you think I haven't heard before. If you want to show that you are not the mental midget you accuse us of being then perhaps you should start with some substance. No?

Substance? How about the retards that come to my house every once and a while? Or about golden plates that never existed? Polygamy? Pedophilia? ...

 

[Truthspeaker]

Truth is about mormons that they are totally devoid of intelligent thoughts and live in a fantasy world populated by mental midgets and pedophiles.
Discuss.

You mean discuss again? You are awfully new to this thread to just jump in and spout off rhetoric you think I haven't heard before. If you want to show that you are not the mental midget you accuse us of being then perhaps you should start with some substance. No?

Substance? How about the retards that come to my house every once and a while? Or about golden plates that never existed? Polygamy? Pedophilia? ...

You sure live up to your last name. At least the quality of your arguments. Try reading back from the beginning. all of those questions have been answered. Except the retard comment.

since you claim to be so much smarter than these retards coming to your door, how about an intelligent piece of input with maybe just a little research to it?

cheers!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Truth, I say this gently -- anyone can write anything on wikipedia. That's why Obama's parentage keeps the "birther" toids so entertained. They change it all the time. You clearly do not know Widtsoe, Talmage, Roberts, Nibley, Compton, Quinn, Bennett, Johnson, Speek, Jorgenson, Hamer, Bringhurst, Sheperd, Arrington, even the whackos like Holyoak, Midley, and Hodge. And I left another fifteen to twenty out that you should have already read.

You remind of the brand-new Christian in his eagerness to defend the faith and save the unrighteous, he does more damage than twenty devils.

Boy, slow down!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Truth, I say this gently -- anyone can write anything on wikipedia. That's why Obama's parentage keeps the "birther" toids so entertained. They change it all the time. You clearly do not know Widtsoe, Talmage, Roberts, Nibley, Compton, Quinn, Bennett, Johnson, Speek, Jorgenson, Hamer, Bringhurst, Sheperd, Arrington, even the whackos like Holyoak, Midley, and Hodge. And I left another fifteen to twenty out that you should have already read.

You remind of the brand-new Christian in his eagerness to defend the faith and save the unrighteous, he does more damage than twenty devils.

Boy, slow down!

What exactly is your complaint about the Mormon Church?

 

[Arawyn]

Truth, I say this gently -- anyone can write anything on wikipedia. That's why Obama's parentage keeps the "birther" toids so entertained. They change it all the time. You clearly do not know Widtsoe, Talmage, Roberts, Nibley, Compton, Quinn, Bennett, Johnson, Speek, Jorgenson, Hamer, Bringhurst, Sheperd, Arrington, even the whackos like Holyoak, Midley, and Hodge. And I left another fifteen to twenty out that you should have already read.

You remind of the brand-new Christian in his eagerness to defend the faith and save the unrighteous, he does more damage than twenty devils.

Boy, slow down!

What exactly is your complaint about the Mormon Church?

I've seen several disagreements he's brought up, but I haven't seen Starkey be Snarky about it

But then I haven't read the entire thread.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I simply expect a 'defender of the faith' to know his sources. Truth doesn't, pure and simple. I mean, Wikipedia, for Nephi's sake?

No complaint, Retired. I generally like LDS, particularly as neighbors. They are more guilty about life and less likely to swipe things than Southern Baptists. The LDS church today is not anything like what it was under Young and Taylor. Thank heavens. The one thing I don't care for is the idea that it (or any church) is a "one true church".

When anybody makes that claim other than as personal faith testimony, which is not binding at all on anyone else, I will ask for the evidence and look at it very, very carefully. Don't get mad. That's what critical thinking skills are for. Now if you are going to bear your testimony, Retired, do it in the mirror, because that is who the testimony is for.

 

[Arawyn]

I simply expect a 'defender of the faith' to know his sources. Truth doesn't, pure and simple. I mean, Wikipedia, for Nephi's sake?

No complaint, Retired. I generally like LDS, particularly as neighbors. They are more guilty about life and less likely to swipe things than Southern Baptists. The LDS church today is not anything like what it was under Young and Taylor. Thank heavens. The one thing I don't care for is the idea that it (or any church) is a "one true church".

When anybody makes that claim other than as personal faith testimony, which is not binding at all on anyone else, I will ask for the evidence and look at it very, very carefully. Don't get mad. That's what critical thinking skills are for. Now if you are going to bear your testimony, Retired, do it in the mirror, because that is who the testimony is for.

Which to be honest, is as it should be. Personal testimonies aside (because they are so heartfelt), assertions, claims, etc., should stand up to the light of scrutiny.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I simply expect a 'defender of the faith' to know his sources. Truth doesn't, pure and simple. I mean, Wikipedia, for Nephi's sake?

No complaint, Retired. I generally like LDS, particularly as neighbors. They are more guilty about life and less likely to swipe things than Southern Baptists. The LDS church today is not anything like what it was under Young and Taylor. Thank heavens. The one thing I don't care for is the idea that it (or any church) is a "one true church".

When anybody makes that claim other than as personal faith testimony, which is not binding at all on anyone else, I will ask for the evidence and look at it very, very carefully. Don't get mad. That's what critical thinking skills are for. Now if you are going to bear your testimony, Retired, do it in the mirror, because that is who the testimony is for.

I happen to be a Mormon, but I accept that since Man creates Churches not God that man will end up corrupting them in some manner unless God intervenes constantly, which he does not do now.

So when Joseph Smith was given what he was by God it was correct, but since God di not, to my knowledge continue to give Joseph Smith Guidance and as far as I know did not anoint any of the following Presidents of the Church, then it is highly likely some corruption has occurred.

I however believe that among those churches and religions I am familiar with, the Mormon Church is the most correct.

You will find that I also have trouble believing a forgiving God will simply condemn otherwise good people to eternal death just because they belonged to the wrong church.

Mormons are taught to reflect and pray on all matters presented to them even by the Church and to come to an understanding between themselves, God and the information or directions provided.

 

[Avatar4321]

Mormons are taught to reflect and pray on all matters presented to them even by the Church and to come to an understanding between themselves, God and the information or directions provided.

Sadly this is a foreign concept to so many people. To actually work things out with God. To learn from Him. To accept what He tells you. People cant believe it so they pretend as though you are crazy. They act like God can somehow lie to you. Or that its somehow wrong to go to the source.

 

[Arawyn]

Mormons are taught to reflect and pray on all matters presented to them even by the Church and to come to an understanding between themselves, God and the information or directions provided.

Sadly this is a foreign concept to so many people. To actually work things out with God. To learn from Him. To accept what He tells you. People cant believe it so they pretend as though you are crazy. They act like God can somehow lie to you. Or that its somehow wrong to go to the source.

And then sometimes, or many times, they'll find themselves in a figurative fox hole.