The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

Truth, I say this gently -- anyone can write anything on wikipedia. That's why Obama's parentage keeps the "birther" toids so entertained. They change it all the time. You clearly do not know Widtsoe, Talmage, Roberts, Nibley, Compton, Quinn, Bennett, Johnson, Speek, Jorgenson, Hamer, Bringhurst, Sheperd, Arrington, even the whackos like Holyoak, Midley, and Hodge. And I left another fifteen to twenty out that you should have already read.

You remind of the brand-new Christian in his eagerness to defend the faith and save the unrighteous, he does more damage than twenty devils.

Boy, slow down!

Oh I know just about everything there is to know about all the lesser known facts about our church. I certainly know Talmage through and through. He is truly one of the great minds in all of history. Widtsoe as well. Nibley I already explained to you earlier that he is atop the list of books I have read on historical and archaeological facts.

Is there a single thing you can bring up that hasn't already been addressed on this little known thread on the meager usmessageboard.com?
Come on, all you anti's think you are so original. That you have somehow "exposed" all the stuff that is already out in the open. We've been there done that. I really would like to know of some more specifics I haven't heard of yet.
Any SPECIFIC contributions?

 

[Truthspeaker]

I simply expect a 'defender of the faith' to know his sources. Truth doesn't, pure and simple. I mean, Wikipedia, for Nephi's sake?

Au Contraire. I posted a link that shows the picture of the actual affidavit included in the court transcripts describing the eyewitness account of the miracle slaying of the mobster who tried to decapitate Smith. That was not a Wikipedia source. But by the way, anti mormons are real fond of wikipedia and like their wiki sources to be found credible. Interesting.

Just because I haven't read some of the books from all of the authors you mentioned doesn't mean I haven't heard all the points brought up in their books. I'm sure each of them repeat many things they have heard from others. What exactly am I missing?
Specifics please? Oh and you may want to keep reading this thread from the beginning to see how much source backed material I have actually given. It'll take you a few days. happy reading!

No complaint, Retired. I generally like LDS, particularly as neighbors. They are more guilty about life and less likely to swipe things than Southern Baptists. The LDS church today is not anything like what it was under Young and Taylor. Thank heavens. The one thing I don't care for is the idea that it (or any church) is a "one true church"

.

Thank heavens that the church is exactly the same plus a few new revelations predicted by the early church. Yeah we are not really different at all except that we are a lot larger and we have different modern people as it's members with different modern customs.
Care to show us how we are so different from the previous church. I have a few ideas about what you are going to say and I'm afraid I will have to repeat my answers again.
Keep it comin'

Also, just because we believe we are the only true current church on the earth, it doesn't mean others are condemned of God. Everyone has an equal shot at eternal life in God's kingdom.
How you say? Because this life is a very short phase in the overall plan. There is a lot of learning and doing to be done on the other side before final judgments are passed out.

When anybody makes that claim other than as personal faith testimony, which is not binding at all on anyone else, I will ask for the evidence and look at it very, very carefully. Don't get mad. That's what critical thinking skills are for. Now if you are going to bear your testimony, Retired, do it in the mirror, because that is who the testimony is for.

Nobody gets mad at the questions. Just the ignoring of answers. that is what critical thinking is all about. God invites everyone to critically think about their choices in life.

 

[Arawyn]

Can a non-anti bring up tar and feathering?

Seriously........as much as I've seen anti's post about JS.....the one thing that gets my goat is that they never mention that, nor the loss of two children because of that night.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I happen to be a Mormon, but I accept that since Man creates Churches not God that man will end up corrupting them in some manner unless God intervenes constantly, which he does not do now.

You are not really a mormon if you don't believe God continues to talk to prophets today. You may identify with us best but one of the great premises of our faith is that God talks to Thomas S. Monson the same way he talked to Joseph Smith.

So when Joseph Smith was given what he was by God it was correct, but since God di not, to my knowledge continue to give Joseph Smith Guidance and as far as I know did not anoint any of the following Presidents of the Church, then it is highly likely some corruption has occurred.

True members of our church do not believe as you do. Joseph was not required to anoint the next prophet. The keys given to him by Moses, Elias, Elijah, Peter, James, John and John the Baptist as well as Jesus Christ were all bestowed by Joseph on the 12 apostles. they were given the power to receive revelation from Jesus who would be the next President of the Church.
true members do not believe the church has ever become corrupted. There may have been individuals who became corrupted, but were expelled once they were exposed.

I however believe that among those churches and religions I am familiar with, the Mormon Church is the most correct.

That's fine. but you can't really consider yourself a true latter-day saint, even if you may consider yourself a cultural "mormon."

You will find that I also have trouble believing a forgiving God will simply condemn otherwise good people to eternal death just because they belonged to the wrong church.

So would I. That's why we don't teach such a thing.

Mormons are taught to reflect and pray on all matters presented to them even by the Church and to come to an understanding between themselves, God and the information or directions provided.

Truer words could never be spoken.

 

[John Lemmon]

since you claim to be so much smarter than these retards coming to your door, how about an intelligent piece of input with maybe just a little research to it?

cheers!

It's simple, god wouldn't need anyone to go door to door for him, what are you guys, the amway of religion? Man, the peeps who come to my door are soooo pathetic, I feel sorry for them. They're like zombies.
Like, gimme a break, I've read out of curiosity some of the posts in this thread, and you're so detached from reality, it's amazing that anyone could be so delusional. God still talks to the president of your church but no one else? I feel sorry for you that you can't see that as a con job.
I'm happy for you that you've found something to delude yourself with and be happy, but you talk in such a condescending way like you're some sort of religious einstein, while spouting such total nonsense as the whole story of the gunfight, the plates or anything else, that you should be assessed by a mental health specialist.

 

[Avatar4321]

It's simple, god wouldn't need anyone to go door to door for him, what are you guys, the amway of religion? Man, the peeps who come to my door are soooo pathetic, I feel sorry for them. They're like zombies.
Like, gimme a break, I've read out of curiosity some of the posts in this thread, and you're so detached from reality, it's amazing that anyone could be so delusional. God still talks to the president of your church but no one else? I feel sorry for you that you can't see that as a con job.
I'm happy for you that you've found something to delude yourself with and be happy, but you talk in such a condescending way like you're some sort of religious einstein, while spouting such total nonsense as the whole story of the gunfight, the plates or anything else, that you should be assessed by a mental health specialist.

What a surprise. Anothr person who doesnt listen. Then condescends about what he doesnt know.

What is so difficult about the concept of revelation? God is not silent. You can recieve revelation in your own life. You can actually speak with the Lord.

Yet somehow you think we teach the opposite. That only one man can speak with God. and you also claim you read the thread. Well you clearly need to read more carefully.

The miracle of mormonism isnt that one man talked to God. It's that all the other witnesses did as well. Joseph wasnt the only one to see the Angel. Or the plates. He wasnt the only one there when the Priesthood restored. He wasnt the only one who saw the Lord in the School of the Prophets. He wasnt the only one who healed on the day of power in Nauvoo. He wasnt the only one who saw the glory of God and the angels at the Kirtland Temple Dedication.

And all these people are delusional because you said so? Or because you misunderstand simple doctrine?

Maybe you should listen to those boys that come by your house. Then you might actually learn something.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Truth, I say this gently -- anyone can write anything on wikipedia. That's why Obama's parentage keeps the "birther" toids so entertained. They change it all the time. You clearly do not know Widtsoe, Talmage, Roberts, Nibley, Compton, Quinn, Bennett, Johnson, Speek, Jorgenson, Hamer, Bringhurst, Sheperd, Arrington, even the whackos like Holyoak, Midley, and Hodge. And I left another fifteen to twenty out that you should have already read.

You remind of the brand-new Christian in his eagerness to defend the faith and save the unrighteous, he does more damage than twenty devils.

Boy, slow down!

Oh I know just about everything there is to know about all the lesser known facts about our church. I certainly know Talmage through and through. He is truly one of the great minds in all of history. Widtsoe as well. Nibley I already explained to you earlier that he is atop the list of books I have read on historical and archaeological facts.

Is there a single thing you can bring up that hasn't already been addressed on this little known thread on the meager usmessageboard.com?
Come on, all you anti's think you are so original. That you have somehow "exposed" all the stuff that is already out in the open. We've been there done that. I really would like to know of some more specifics I haven't heard of yet.
Any SPECIFIC contributions?

The term "anti" is laughable and belongs to you if you continue to avoid critical thinking skills and objectivity, the old 'fair and balanced'. Anyone with the slightest bit of professionalism in scholarship and discussion shudder at wikipedia. Show some more class, please.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I happen to be a Mormon, but I accept that since Man creates Churches not God that man will end up corrupting them in some manner unless God intervenes constantly, which he does not do now.

You are not really a mormon if you don't believe God continues to talk to prophets today. You may identify with us best but one of the great premises of our faith is that God talks to Thomas S. Monson the same way he talked to Joseph Smith.

So when Joseph Smith was given what he was by God it was correct, but since God di not, to my knowledge continue to give Joseph Smith Guidance and as far as I know did not anoint any of the following Presidents of the Church, then it is highly likely some corruption has occurred.

True members of our church do not believe as you do. Joseph was not required to anoint the next prophet. The keys given to him by Moses, Elias, Elijah, Peter, James, John and John the Baptist as well as Jesus Christ were all bestowed by Joseph on the 12 apostles. they were given the power to receive revelation from Jesus who would be the next President of the Church.
true members do not believe the church has ever become corrupted. There may have been individuals who became corrupted, but were expelled once they were exposed.



That's fine. but you can't really consider yourself a true latter-day saint, even if you may consider yourself a cultural "mormon."

You will find that I also have trouble believing a forgiving God will simply condemn otherwise good people to eternal death just because they belonged to the wrong church.

So would I. That's why we don't teach such a thing.

Mormons are taught to reflect and pray on all matters presented to them even by the Church and to come to an understanding between themselves, God and the information or directions provided.

Truer words could never be spoken.

Truth, I doubt you have authority to speak for the LDS church on matter of faith and doctrine. So please say "I believe you can't be a Mormon", instead of "You aren't a Mormon if. . .". If you do the latter, the very words of Joseph Smith condemn you for unrighteous dominion.

 

[John Lemmon]

What is so difficult about the concept of revelation? God is not silent. You can recieve revelation in your own life. You can actually speak with the Lord.

And you say you're not delusional? So god is silent until you fill you head with mormon mumbo jumbo?

The miracle of mormonism isnt that one man talked to God. It's that all the other witnesses did as well. Joseph wasnt the only one to see the Angel. Or the plates. He wasnt the only one there when the Priesthood restored. He wasnt the only one who saw the Lord in the School of the Prophets. He wasnt the only one who healed on the day of power in Nauvoo. He wasnt the only one who saw the glory of God and the angels at the Kirtland Temple Dedication.

You have some proof of plates and all the rest? Or I just take your word for it.

Lord in the School of the Prophets You're suffering another delusional coniption.

Maybe you should listen to those boys that come by your house. You a zombie too?

 

[HUGGY]

It's simple, god wouldn't need anyone to go door to door for him, what are you guys, the amway of religion? Man, the peeps who come to my door are soooo pathetic, I feel sorry for them. They're like zombies.
Like, gimme a break, I've read out of curiosity some of the posts in this thread, and you're so detached from reality, it's amazing that anyone could be so delusional. God still talks to the president of your church but no one else? I feel sorry for you that you can't see that as a con job.
I'm happy for you that you've found something to delude yourself with and be happy, but you talk in such a condescending way like you're some sort of religious einstein, while spouting such total nonsense as the whole story of the gunfight, the plates or anything else, that you should be assessed by a mental health specialist.

What a surprise. Anothr person who doesnt listen. Then condescends about what he doesnt know.

What is so difficult about the concept of revelation? God is not silent. You can recieve revelation in your own life. You can actually speak with the Lord.

Yet somehow you think we teach the opposite. That only one man can speak with God. and you also claim you read the thread. Well you clearly need to read more carefully.

The miracle of mormonism isnt that one man talked to God. It's that all the other witnesses did as well. Joseph wasnt the only one to see the Angel. Or the plates. He wasnt the only one there when the Priesthood restored. He wasnt the only one who saw the Lord in the School of the Prophets. He wasnt the only one who healed on the day of power in Nauvoo. He wasnt the only one who saw the glory of God and the angels at the Kirtland Temple Dedication.

And all these people are delusional because you said so? Or because you misunderstand simple doctrine?

Maybe you should listen to those boys that come by your house. Then you might actually learn something.

You can actually speak with the Lord.

Proof you are bat shit crazy.

PS.... Do the magic plates wash themselves? If so we could really use a set of em here at the restaurant. How do you order them?

 

[Truthspeaker]

since you claim to be so much smarter than these retards coming to your door, how about an intelligent piece of input with maybe just a little research to it?

cheers!

It's simple, god wouldn't need anyone to go door to door for him, what are you guys, the amway of religion? Man, the peeps who come to my door are soooo pathetic, I feel sorry for them. They're like zombies.
Like, gimme a break, I've read out of curiosity some of the posts in this thread, and you're so detached from reality, it's amazing that anyone could be so delusional. God still talks to the president of your church but no one else? I feel sorry for you that you can't see that as a con job.
I'm happy for you that you've found something to delude yourself with and be happy, but you talk in such a condescending way like you're some sort of religious einstein, while spouting such total nonsense as the whole story of the gunfight, the plates or anything else, that you should be assessed by a mental health specialist.

I never said believing this stuff would be easy. And if you think I'm a crackpot that's fine. One day you may not think we're so crazy. I also never said that god doesn't talk to others in lots of different ways. Not usually appearing in person but by spiritual means. I have been assessed by a Dr. Shultz, a client of mine who has pronounced me of a sound mind.
In the meantime happy trails

 

[John Lemmon]

I never said believing this stuff would be easy. And if you think I'm a crackpot that's fine. One day you may not think we're so crazy. I also never said that god doesn't talk to others in lots of different ways. Not usually appearing in person but by spiritual means. I have been assessed by a Dr. Shultz, a client of mine who has pronounced me of a sound mind.
In the meantime happy trails

So in order to hear god you have to study mormonism and force yourself to believe a bunch of cockamamy bs? "by spiritual means" means you convince yourself that you're hearing voices.
Dr Shultz? The Peanuts guy? He's dead. Anyways, he's either a mormon too or a nut. What is he a client of yours for? You a proctologist?
C'mon, give me ONE good reason to be a mormon rather than a normal person, because getting laughed at all the time has to make it be something worthwhile.

 

[Avatar4321]

So in order to hear god you have to study mormonism and force yourself to believe a bunch of cockamamy bs? "by spiritual means" means you convince yourself that you're hearing voices.
Dr Shultz? The Peanuts guy? He's dead. Anyways, he's either a mormon too or a nut. What is he a client of yours for? You a proctologist?
C'mon, give me ONE good reason to be a mormon rather than a normal person, because getting laughed at all the time has to make it be something worthwhile.

No, to hear God you actually have to have a conversation with Him. I still marvel that this is such a foreign concept to people. You want to hear God, you have to talk with Him. I appreciate God's patience with people and I hope someday to have that kind of patience.

You need to study mormonism so you actually have an idea what you are talking about. Because so far you've demonstrated that you don't have a clue what we teach or are about. If you dont want to learn that's fine. but please save yourself the embarassment and stop making yourself look silly.

And one good reason to be mormon. A 10 year longer life expectancy is a good reason. The Gift of the Holy Ghost is a good reason. The peace of God. The power of God. Light. Truth.

I can tell you without hesitation that if people actually lived the Gospel of Jesus Christ, we would live in a completely different world. We would be much happier. Our Children would be much better prepared for this life and the next.

There are plenty of good fruits that come from the Restoration both secular and spiritual. Again another reason to study.

 

[Avatar4321]

You can actually speak with the Lord.

Proof you are bat shit crazy.

PS.... Do the magic plates wash themselves? If so we could really use a set of em here at the restaurant. How do you order them?

Why do you presume that an all powerful being has no ability to speak His mind and make Himself known to His children?

And there are no magic plates involved in anything. Nothing magic period.

 

[John Lemmon]

Avatar, you're a fucking loon. Please don't respond to my posts. I'm glad that you're in a deluded state of imbecility, but you need a strong cup of reality. I realize that this is the only way to validate your life, but c'mon, you talk like you actually think that you're sane.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Other than no true church mantra, I do believe that deity makes its will known to humans.

 

[HUGGY]

You can actually speak with the Lord.

Proof you are bat shit crazy.

PS.... Do the magic plates wash themselves? If so we could really use a set of em here at the restaurant. How do you order them?

Why do you presume that an all powerful being has no ability to speak His mind and make Himself known to His children?

And there are no magic plates involved in anything. Nothing magic period.

you presume That is rich

an all powerful being ooooooo...how impressive!

ability to speak ya that's what an all powerful being would do...single out fruit cakes like you to have an intelligent conversation

His children? Daddy is all powerfull and you didn't get the "all powerfull genes"? What a drag!

You didn't even get the basic set. Do you think pops ..being all powerfull and everything is dissapointed in his brats? Ya would think he would have made you smarter.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Here is an outstanding review of Dr. B. Carmon Hardy's most recent book, on polygamy, Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the American Frontier, volume 9, Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy, Its Origin, Practice, and Demise at http://byustudies.byu.edu/reviews/pages/reviewdetail.aspx?reviewID=814. The reviewer is Dr. Daines of Brigham Young University, and I believe she reveals a true commitment to objectivity and critical thinking skills.

I have met Dr. Hardy once and was very impressed with his speaking ability and his knowledge on Mormonism and the West.

 

[Eightball]

Here is an outstanding review of Dr. B. Carmon Hardy's most recent book, on polygamy, Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the American Frontier, volume 9, Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy, Its Origin, Practice, and Demise at Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the... - BYU Studies Review. The reviewer is Dr. Daines of Brigham Young University, and I believe she reveals a true commitment to objectivity and critical thinking skills.

I have met Dr. Hardy once and was very impressed with his speaking ability and his knowledge on Mormonism and the West.

Jake: Not good enough............Feelings and visions trump anything that highly respected/educated person has to say.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Here is an outstanding review of Dr. B. Carmon Hardy's most recent book, on polygamy, Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the American Frontier, volume 9, Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy, Its Origin, Practice, and Demise at Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the... - BYU Studies Review. The reviewer is Dr. Daines of Brigham Young University, and I believe she reveals a true commitment to objectivity and critical thinking skills.

I have met Dr. Hardy once and was very impressed with his speaking ability and his knowledge on Mormonism and the West.

Jake: Not good enough............Feelings and visions trump anything that highly respected/educated person has to say.

Hey, eightball. The book is more a wonderfully-explained sympathetia than a apologia for the Mormon plural marriage. I believe the LDS Ph.D. who did the linked review above was more objective and fair than could be expected.