The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

The term "anti" is laughable and belongs to you if you continue to avoid critical thinking skills and objectivity, the old 'fair and balanced'.

At what point in this entire thread have I been "anti" anything? You fail to mention where I have avoided critical thinking skills. Thanks for the insult
Oh wait, I get it... You think I just avoid critical thinking BECAUSE I am religious at all. Fine with me. That's not the point of this thread anyway. I don't care.

Anyone with the slightest bit of professionalism in scholarship and discussion shudder at wikipedia. Show some more class, please.

Oh really? What is so unprofessional about facts, no matter what the source? Statments made on Wikipedia are not false because YOU SAY SO. Where are your concrete facts? Think critically yourself straw guy.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I happen to be a Mormon, but I accept that since Man creates Churches not God that man will end up corrupting them in some manner unless God intervenes constantly, which he does not do now.

You are not really a mormon if you don't believe God continues to talk to prophets today. You may identify with us best but one of the great premises of our faith is that God talks to Thomas S. Monson the same way he talked to Joseph Smith.



True members of our church do not believe as you do. Joseph was not required to anoint the next prophet. The keys given to him by Moses, Elias, Elijah, Peter, James, John and John the Baptist as well as Jesus Christ were all bestowed by Joseph on the 12 apostles. they were given the power to receive revelation from Jesus who would be the next President of the Church.
true members do not believe the church has ever become corrupted. There may have been individuals who became corrupted, but were expelled once they were exposed.



That's fine. but you can't really consider yourself a true latter-day saint, even if you may consider yourself a cultural "mormon."



So would I. That's why we don't teach such a thing.

Mormons are taught to reflect and pray on all matters presented to them even by the Church and to come to an understanding between themselves, God and the information or directions provided.

Truer words could never be spoken.

Truth, I doubt you have authority to speak for the LDS church on matter of faith and doctrine. So please say "I believe you can't be a Mormon", instead of "You aren't a Mormon if. . .". If you do the latter, the very words of Joseph Smith condemn you for unrighteous dominion.

Once again, Au Contraire, mon ami.

I do have authority to speak for the church. Especially since I am repeating what has been spoken of by all our prophets. It's not like I came up with some brave new idea here. You can count on me to put forth what the church ACTUALLY teaches. Since I am an active elder who teaches every sunday and was authorized to teach my religion on a full time mission. You can check up on all my sources if you care to think I am teaching anything contrary to our official church doctrine. Happy searching

by the way the words you refer to regarding Joseph Smith and unrighteous dominion are extremely misunderstood. Everyone please read exactly what it says. Note verse 37-39:

Doctrine and Covenants 121

There is a lot of context to be understood in this scripture. Joseph was saying that men lose their authority when they try to cover up their sins, or force their will upon others, saying their will is the will of God. Such is the thing I have not done. I have never forced my will on anyone. As for trying to cover up any of my sins on this thread, I have made no such attempt.
Please learn knowledge.

 

[Truthspeaker]

What is so difficult about the concept of revelation? God is not silent. You can recieve revelation in your own life. You can actually speak with the Lord.

And you say you're not delusional? So god is silent until you fill you head with mormon mumbo jumbo?

The miracle of mormonism isnt that one man talked to God. It's that all the other witnesses did as well. Joseph wasnt the only one to see the Angel. Or the plates. He wasnt the only one there when the Priesthood restored. He wasnt the only one who saw the Lord in the School of the Prophets. He wasnt the only one who healed on the day of power in Nauvoo. He wasnt the only one who saw the glory of God and the angels at the Kirtland Temple Dedication.

You have some proof of plates and all the rest? Or I just take your word for it.

Lord in the School of the Prophets You're suffering another delusional coniption.

Maybe you should listen to those boys that come by your house. You a zombie too?

Ok Lemmon,
I get it that you think we are delusional. Thank you for the insults. Are you finished? Remember now I'm not trying to convince anyone what we believe. If you think you know what we believe and still think we're crazy, then fine, great, fantastic.

If you don't have any questions, please... Why are you wasting time trying to argue with religious zombies?

 

[Truthspeaker]

It's simple, god wouldn't need anyone to go door to door for him, what are you guys, the amway of religion? Man, the peeps who come to my door are soooo pathetic, I feel sorry for them. They're like zombies.
Like, gimme a break, I've read out of curiosity some of the posts in this thread, and you're so detached from reality, it's amazing that anyone could be so delusional. God still talks to the president of your church but no one else? I feel sorry for you that you can't see that as a con job.
I'm happy for you that you've found something to delude yourself with and be happy, but you talk in such a condescending way like you're some sort of religious einstein, while spouting such total nonsense as the whole story of the gunfight, the plates or anything else, that you should be assessed by a mental health specialist.

What a surprise. Anothr person who doesnt listen. Then condescends about what he doesnt know.

What is so difficult about the concept of revelation? God is not silent. You can recieve revelation in your own life. You can actually speak with the Lord.

Yet somehow you think we teach the opposite. That only one man can speak with God. and you also claim you read the thread. Well you clearly need to read more carefully.

The miracle of mormonism isnt that one man talked to God. It's that all the other witnesses did as well. Joseph wasnt the only one to see the Angel. Or the plates. He wasnt the only one there when the Priesthood restored. He wasnt the only one who saw the Lord in the School of the Prophets. He wasnt the only one who healed on the day of power in Nauvoo. He wasnt the only one who saw the glory of God and the angels at the Kirtland Temple Dedication.

And all these people are delusional because you said so? Or because you misunderstand simple doctrine?

Maybe you should listen to those boys that come by your house. Then you might actually learn something.

You can actually speak with the Lord.

Proof you are bat shit crazy.

PS.... Do the magic plates wash themselves? If so we could really use a set of em here at the restaurant. How do you order them?

Ok we're crazy again.....

That's great. Thank you for your wonderful opinion. Since we're so crazy, why are you compelled to come back and waste time with us wackos?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Avatar, you're a fucking loon. Please don't respond to my posts. I'm glad that you're in a deluded state of imbecility, but you need a strong cup of reality. I realize that this is the only way to validate your life, but c'mon, you talk like you actually think that you're sane.

Well since we're so insane, why do you want to talk to us? Perhaps you haven't looked yourself in the mirror yet. Just an idea

 

[Truthspeaker]

Other than no true church mantra, I do believe that deity makes its will known to humans.

I believe God makes his will known only to those who truly want to know his will.

 

[Truthspeaker]

You can actually speak with the Lord.

Proof you are bat shit crazy.

PS.... Do the magic plates wash themselves? If so we could really use a set of em here at the restaurant. How do you order them?

Why do you presume that an all powerful being has no ability to speak His mind and make Himself known to His children?

And there are no magic plates involved in anything. Nothing magic period.

you presume That is rich

an all powerful being ooooooo...how impressive!

ability to speak ya that's what an all powerful being would do...single out fruit cakes like you to have an intelligent conversation

His children? Daddy is all powerfull and you didn't get the "all powerfull genes"? What a drag!

You didn't even get the basic set. Do you think pops ..being all powerfull and everything is dissapointed in his brats? Ya would think he would have made you smarter.

Ok you think we're crazy again. Anything new?

Yes "Daddy" is all powerful and he did give us his genes. Our teaching is that we all have the divine potential he has.....I know I know, we're crazy again. But at least I want you to know just HOW crazy.
and "Pops" is disappointed in some of his "brats". Which ones, we'll have to wait and see. Perhaps if you are the one so much smarter you can explain why we shouldn't believe in our religion?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here is an outstanding review of Dr. B. Carmon Hardy's most recent book, on polygamy, Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the American Frontier, volume 9, Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy, Its Origin, Practice, and Demise at Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the... - BYU Studies Review. The reviewer is Dr. Daines of Brigham Young University, and I believe she reveals a true commitment to objectivity and critical thinking skills.

I have met Dr. Hardy once and was very impressed with his speaking ability and his knowledge on Mormonism and the West.

I read the review. I am not quite sure what you mean by saying Dr. Daines "reveals a true commitment to objectivity and critical thinking skills."

And somehow I don't? Because.......?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here is an outstanding review of Dr. B. Carmon Hardy's most recent book, on polygamy, Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the American Frontier, volume 9, Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy, Its Origin, Practice, and Demise at Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the... - BYU Studies Review. The reviewer is Dr. Daines of Brigham Young University, and I believe she reveals a true commitment to objectivity and critical thinking skills.

I have met Dr. Hardy once and was very impressed with his speaking ability and his knowledge on Mormonism and the West.

Jake: Not good enough............Feelings and visions trump anything that highly respected/educated person has to say.

Way to go 8-ball! Way to jump on the bandwagon of somebody who doesn't believe in a God at all. Why aren't you as upset with non-believers as you are with Mormons?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here is an outstanding review of Dr. B. Carmon Hardy's most recent book, on polygamy, Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the American Frontier, volume 9, Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy, Its Origin, Practice, and Demise at Kingdom in the West: The Mormons and the... - BYU Studies Review. The reviewer is Dr. Daines of Brigham Young University, and I believe she reveals a true commitment to objectivity and critical thinking skills.

I have met Dr. Hardy once and was very impressed with his speaking ability and his knowledge on Mormonism and the West.

Jake: Not good enough............Feelings and visions trump anything that highly respected/educated person has to say.

Hey, eightball. The book is more a wonderfully-explained sympathetia than a apologia for the Mormon plural marriage. I believe the LDS Ph.D. who did the linked review above was more objective and fair than could be expected.

so now because it comes from a Ph.D and not from me, now you accept the statment as critical thinking-approved? What have I said differently than your precious Ph.D person?

 

[John Lemmon]

Avatar, you're a fucking loon. Please don't respond to my posts. I'm glad that you're in a deluded state of imbecility, but you need a strong cup of reality. I realize that this is the only way to validate your life, but c'mon, you talk like you actually think that you're sane.

Well since we're so insane, why do you want to talk to us? Perhaps you haven't looked yourself in the mirror yet. Just an idea

It's fun, why do you think?

C'mon tru, golden plates that nobody has, an alien from another planet (that's not even visible) ruling earth, magic underwear that you even still wear, pedophillic polygamy, dumb hillbilly cowboys and all the other stuff is so hilarious that I need to probe you for more stories, they're too funny.
it's like you're seriously retarded but hilarious. And god knows religion needs a few laughs.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Avatar, you're a fucking loon. Please don't respond to my posts. I'm glad that you're in a deluded state of imbecility, but you need a strong cup of reality. I realize that this is the only way to validate your life, but c'mon, you talk like you actually think that you're sane.

Well since we're so insane, why do you want to talk to us? Perhaps you haven't looked yourself in the mirror yet. Just an idea

It's fun, why do you think?

C'mon tru, golden plates that nobody has, an alien from another planet (that's not even visible) ruling earth, magic underwear that you even still wear, pedophillic polygamy, dumb hillbilly cowboys and all the other stuff is so hilarious that I need to probe you for more stories, they're too funny.
it's like you're seriously retarded but hilarious. And god knows religion needs a few laughs.

Well if you want to laugh at us and think we're crazy at least you should laugh at the right things. None of the stuff you are laughing about is correct.
1- The "golden plates" are had. They were first had by Smith and other eyewitnesses. Now they are had by the Angel Moroni. (I know, totally crazy right?)
2- God is not a short green alien from a sci-fi movie. And you can see him. (laugh it up)
3- There is no magic underwear.lol
4- There is no pedophillic polygamylol
5- Where did the dumb hillbilly cowboys come from?lol
6- And all the other stuff?lol

It's funny you say "God knows" that religion needs a few laughs. So you know what God knows even though you don't believe in a GodWe'll see whose laughing in a few years. In the meantime.... Have a jolly good guffaw on us

 

[HUGGY]

Well since we're so insane, why do you want to talk to us? Perhaps you haven't looked yourself in the mirror yet. Just an idea

It's fun, why do you think?

C'mon tru, golden plates that nobody has, an alien from another planet (that's not even visible) ruling earth, magic underwear that you even still wear, pedophillic polygamy, dumb hillbilly cowboys and all the other stuff is so hilarious that I need to probe you for more stories, they're too funny.
it's like you're seriously retarded but hilarious. And god knows religion needs a few laughs.

Well if you want to laugh at us and think we're crazy at least you should laugh at the right things. None of the stuff you are laughing about is correct.
1- The "golden plates" are had. They were first had by Smith and other eyewitnesses. Now they are had by the Angel Moroni. (I know, totally crazy right?)
2- God is not a short green alien from a sci-fi movie. And you can see him. (laugh it up)
3- There is no magic underwear.lol
4- There is no pedophillic polygamylol
5- Where did the dumb hillbilly cowboys come from?lol
6- And all the other stuff?lol

It's funny you say "God knows" that religion needs a few laughs. So you know what God knows even though you don't believe in a GodWe'll see whose laughing in a few years. In the meantime.... Have a jolly good guffaw on us

Now they are had by the Angel Moroni.

I think it is pretty crystal sparkling clear who is being had.

 

[Truthspeaker]

It's fun, why do you think?

C'mon tru, golden plates that nobody has, an alien from another planet (that's not even visible) ruling earth, magic underwear that you even still wear, pedophillic polygamy, dumb hillbilly cowboys and all the other stuff is so hilarious that I need to probe you for more stories, they're too funny.
it's like you're seriously retarded but hilarious. And god knows religion needs a few laughs.

Well if you want to laugh at us and think we're crazy at least you should laugh at the right things. None of the stuff you are laughing about is correct.
1- The "golden plates" are had. They were first had by Smith and other eyewitnesses. Now they are had by the Angel Moroni. (I know, totally crazy right?)
2- God is not a short green alien from a sci-fi movie. And you can see him. (laugh it up)
3- There is no magic underwear.lol
4- There is no pedophillic polygamylol
5- Where did the dumb hillbilly cowboys come from?lol
6- And all the other stuff?lol

It's funny you say "God knows" that religion needs a few laughs. So you know what God knows even though you don't believe in a GodWe'll see whose laughing in a few years. In the meantime.... Have a jolly good guffaw on us

Now they are had by the Angel Moroni.

I think it is pretty crystal sparkling clear who is being had.

Ok Huggy. You really got me with that one. I think I'm ready to renounce my religion now

Next

 

[John Lemmon]

I think Moroni is Italian for moron! Angel Moron!!!

You can see god? So you've smoked crack!!!

C'mon, you're wearing your magic undies right now. They remind you how uncomfortable your religion is

Be serious, pedophilia and polygamy are 2 central tenet to mormonism!

Those stories about the cowboys getting tar and feathered, shooting at each other... Sound pretty dumb to me... but normal to you

 

[Truthspeaker]

Can a non-anti bring up tar and feathering?

Seriously........as much as I've seen anti's post about JS.....the one thing that gets my goat is that they never mention that, nor the loss of two children because of that night.

I guess you missed our lengthy discussion on the issue. What's-his-face was trying to argue with me that tarring and feathering doesn't count as torture. I said it did. I also mentioned the death of Joseph's child due to the effects of the raid on his home.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I think Moroni is Italian for moron! Angel Moron!!!

You can see god? So you've smoked crack!!!

C'mon, you're wearing your magic undies right now. They remind you how uncomfortable your religion is

Be serious, pedophilia and polygamy are 2 central tenet to mormonism!

Those stories about the cowboys getting tar and feathered, shooting at each other... Sound pretty dumb to me... but normal to you

What a 4-year old response?!

What is wrong with you? How can you expect to have a reasonable discussion when all you do is insult people who don't share your limited view on life?

 

[John Lemmon]

ok, so your angel stole the plates back, that's called an indian giver.
So you wearing your magic trunks right now? I bet you are.
JS sounds like an imbecile, so why would god choose him, was god drunk too?
btw, you guys still not allowed to drink?

 

[Avatar4321]

ok, so your angel stole the plates back, that's called an indian giver.
So you wearing your magic trunks right now? I bet you are.
JS sounds like an imbecile, so why would god choose him, was god drunk too?
btw, you guys still not allowed to drink?

I suppose God stole our Savior back too... At least according to your logic. Witnesses be damned.

There has never been, nor is there, nor will there ever be magic underwear.

How many imbeciles do you know that can dictate a 512 page book thats internally consistant and consistant with the Bible in 2 months with no notes etc? How many imbeciles can accurate describe routes, name names, describe plants and animals etc, that would remain unknown for over 100 years after his death? How many imbeciles can pick apart modern Christian doctrine, get all of the late innovations and revive those authentic doctrines and practices that again were unknown of when he did it? how many imbeciles can get 11 witnesses to see the same things he does? How many imbeciles can have other visions with other witnesses and have them say the same thing? How many imbecilies can heal the sick? Raise the dead? Accurately prophecy? how many imbeciles can build a city?

So far I've seen much more impressive achievements from "the imbecile" you mock than I have from you. What exactly have you done? What have you accomplished? Where are your academic credentials? Why exactly should I care what you think?

And for the record, we are free to choose whatever we want. We can drink. We make a choice not to because there are things far more important than a beer in this world.

 

[John Lemmon]

I can almost agree that jesus even existed, not that there's much solid proof, in which case a lot of people would have seen him on the cross (again, scant evidence of that too). But sorry, your plates never existed, no proof. A few so called witnesses, but again they could be in on the gag.

He described names and routes and animals and stuff and was such a frikkin genius that everyone thinks he's nuts, except of course other nutjobs/mormons. I say nutjob because to believe the stuff you and tru have posted here is sooo far fetched, only a complete idiot could fall for it.
Heal the sick, raise the dead... all those preachers have been debunked as charlatans. they still do that shit today, fake everyone out to get donations and members.
I bet you have your, we'll call it "special" underwear on right now. it's hilarious that you folks have to wear special underwear, it's comically perverted!

Ok tell me, what was JS's best "achievement"?

So do you drink? Does tru? Do any mormons you know drink?

there are things far more important than a beer in this world.

Now I know you're nuts. I bet you think football is of no consequence as well.