The two ends of the political spectrum are killing us

[bigrebnc1775]

Ohh he has some confluence with reality LOL? better steer clear

Fuck off Frances You're as weak a debater as your leftist buddy is

 

[francoHFW]

Fuck off Frances You're as weak a debater as your leftist buddy is

only in Murdoch/internet conspiracy nut world LOL.... the only person whoever changed sides of this debate was due to me- approximately 2017 LOL... It's like, as a salesman, I am a teacher LOL

 

[leftwinger]

Okay. What do you think happened on January 6th? And by the way, if you think "I believe that shit", whatever "that shit" is, then you clearly haven't read what I've written about it, in arguments with Leftists.

Over a month ago, I started a thread to get people to write letters of support to the Jan 6th prisoners. I linked to something called the Patriot Mail Project, which has the names and addresses (in prison) of the jailed protestors and is encouraging people to write to them. I've been posting that link everywhere I can, Tweeting it, calling the attention of all patriots to it. (Because that site also -- like almost every poltiical site on the Web, Left or Right, also solicits donations, some Leftist was able to run sobbing to the Mods and get my link deleted.)

Here's the link, and my OP

Support January 6th Prisoners!

The Jan 6 whatever-you-call-it (more than a riot, less than an insurrection) was a bonehead stunt and an enormous gift to the Left, a gift that will keep on giving for years. It's what happens when you have a movement, but not an organization. Your demonstrations are vulnerable to crazies and...

www.usmessageboard.com

Jan 6th should never have happened. I am sure there were provocateurs trying to get our people to storm the Capitol. Ray Epps? Maybe. But if not him, certainly many others. It's an absolutely standard police technique, going back to Pontius Pilate and earlier.

And I am sure there were 'sincere' boneheads and crazies who were happy to put their heads right into the noose. (I've wasted hours arguing with these fools, the kind who post ruff-tuff threats about how we have to hang all the traitors, blah blah blah. Usually just hot air, except occasionally a few loons -- otherwise known as Boogaloo Bois -- actually go out and turn words into deeds and kill policemen. )

And then there are the Russian trolls, the glavset operators, trying to incite violence. They're not hard to spot: their English will be grammatically perfect, unlike that of the hot-air merchants. But they restrain their presence to online ops.

We had two good organizations -- the Three Percenters and the Oathkeepers -- well, at least with thousands of good people in them, whatever deficiencies their leadership had. Both destroyed.

The Proud Boys had promise too ... and now all these groups' leaders are in prison, along with hundreds of other patriots. Millions of dollars have been and will be transferred from patriot wallets to lawyers. Tens of thousands of hours of our energy now has to go into defending our people.

People in crowds lose control of their ability to think coolly and rationally. I would be willing to bet that if you had asked the people who were among the 6 January protestors who went into the Capitol, beforehand, "Hey, do you think it would be a good idea to invade the Capitol, smashing through police lines if necessary, and then ransack the place? Don't you think that will make those Congressmen change their vote on certifying the election?" -- 99% would have said "No". (And the other 1% would have radioed their field commander to find out what to say.)

But get in a crowd, get a few crazies and a few provocateurs in the lead ... in an ambiguous situation where at first they're letting people in .."Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly ..." ... with most people not sure whether or not what they're involved in is illegal -- is there a 'Visitor's Gallery' in Congress that we could pack with protestors, legally? Who knows? -- and, bingo, the trap snaps shut.

And it doesn't matter how much provocation there was planned beforehand. Or whether the infiltrators and provocateurs just improvised and took advantage of this -- for them -- golden opportunity to give our side a karate blow to the neck.

WE SHOULD NOT HAVE FALLEN INTO THE TRAP.

I've argued over and over: we have to learn from our mistakes. Big crowds in an emotional situation are duck soup, easy targets for the Left.

What we need is a national organization of men trained and practiced and equipped to marshall our demonstrations, to be stewards. (The French, who have far more experience than we do in these sorts of things, have something called a 'service d'ordre' -- each mass organization has one.)

We need something like this. They form a ring around our demonstrations. They are prepared to deal with AntiFa counter-demonstrators. (Body armor, helmets, special reinforced protest signs that can stop thrown objects, bear spray, first-aid squads, 'snatch squads' , comms and intel teams to coordinate things... it's all been worked out.

No guns, at the moment. Anyone who proposes bringing firearms to our demonstrations, other than legal concealed carry that stays concealed [and in really tense situations, even that is problematic -- in any case, it's a tactical decision], is a policeman/infiltrator or a brass-bound fool. Our movement has plenty of both.)

If we had had something like that in Washington, they could have dealt with the provocateurs and crazies.

We didn't, and paid -- and are paying and will go on paying -- the price.

So we had better start organizing something like this. Some people who seem to know what they're doing are the former Oathkeepers in Arizona, here:
[ HTTPS//YCPT.org] and their national organizing committee, here: [United States County Preparedness Teams]

Some people evidently think that sitting at home on their behinds trading kindergarten-level insults with Lefties on line is fighting the good fight. It's not.

Some people evidently think that sitting at home on their behinds trading kindergarten-level insults with Lefties on line is fighting the good fight. It's not.

Many don't even have kids at home? Do you think the School board wants to hear from you?
Many are working. Don't have time to read 3 page essays or go to night time PTA meetings.

We have dealt with these Libstain loons long enough. We have been civil for decades. They don't bend, they don't learn, they don't understand.
A basic chart was shown to two morons on this very board and they don't have a clue of understanding. Instead they run off saying "TAX the RICH".
They stole the 2020 Election installing a CCP puppet. We are losing our retirement savings and you want us to talk more NICELY to a bunch of Criminals.?

Do you see how they communicate? and have for 25 years or more? see the RWinger or Candycorn in other threads.
Franco and this Hutch thing are simply different.
Good Lord help us.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

only in Murdoch/internet conspiracy nut world LOL.... the only person whoever changed sides of this debate was due to me- approximately 2017 LOL... It's like, as a salesman, I am a teacher LOL

Worse debate tactic ever.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Okay. What do you think happened on January 6th? And by the way, if you think "I believe that shit", whatever "that shit" is, then you clearly haven't read what I've written about it, in arguments with Leftists.

Over a month ago, I started a thread to get people to write letters of support to the Jan 6th prisoners. I linked to something called the Patriot Mail Project, which has the names and addresses (in prison) of the jailed protestors and is encouraging people to write to them. I've been posting that link everywhere I can, Tweeting it, calling the attention of all patriots to it. (Because that site also -- like almost every poltiical site on the Web, Left or Right, also solicits donations, some Leftist was able to run sobbing to the Mods and get my link deleted.)

Here's the link, and my OP

Support January 6th Prisoners!

The Jan 6 whatever-you-call-it (more than a riot, less than an insurrection) was a bonehead stunt and an enormous gift to the Left, a gift that will keep on giving for years. It's what happens when you have a movement, but not an organization. Your demonstrations are vulnerable to crazies and...

www.usmessageboard.com

Jan 6th should never have happened. I am sure there were provocateurs trying to get our people to storm the Capitol. Ray Epps? Maybe. But if not him, certainly many others. It's an absolutely standard police technique, going back to Pontius Pilate and earlier.

And I am sure there were 'sincere' boneheads and crazies who were happy to put their heads right into the noose. (I've wasted hours arguing with these fools, the kind who post ruff-tuff threats about how we have to hang all the traitors, blah blah blah. Usually just hot air, except occasionally a few loons -- otherwise known as Boogaloo Bois -- actually go out and turn words into deeds and kill policemen. )

And then there are the Russian trolls, the glavset operators, trying to incite violence. They're not hard to spot: their English will be grammatically perfect, unlike that of the hot-air merchants. But they restrain their presence to online ops.

We had two good organizations -- the Three Percenters and the Oathkeepers -- well, at least with thousands of good people in them, whatever deficiencies their leadership had. Both destroyed.

The Proud Boys had promise too ... and now all these groups' leaders are in prison, along with hundreds of other patriots. Millions of dollars have been and will be transferred from patriot wallets to lawyers. Tens of thousands of hours of our energy now has to go into defending our people.

People in crowds lose control of their ability to think coolly and rationally. I would be willing to bet that if you had asked the people who were among the 6 January protestors who went into the Capitol, beforehand, "Hey, do you think it would be a good idea to invade the Capitol, smashing through police lines if necessary, and then ransack the place? Don't you think that will make those Congressmen change their vote on certifying the election?" -- 99% would have said "No". (And the other 1% would have radioed their field commander to find out what to say.)

But get in a crowd, get a few crazies and a few provocateurs in the lead ... in an ambiguous situation where at first they're letting people in .."Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly ..." ... with most people not sure whether or not what they're involved in is illegal -- is there a 'Visitor's Gallery' in Congress that we could pack with protestors, legally? Who knows? -- and, bingo, the trap snaps shut.

And it doesn't matter how much provocation there was planned beforehand. Or whether the infiltrators and provocateurs just improvised and took advantage of this -- for them -- golden opportunity to give our side a karate blow to the neck.

WE SHOULD NOT HAVE FALLEN INTO THE TRAP.

I've argued over and over: we have to learn from our mistakes. Big crowds in an emotional situation are duck soup, easy targets for the Left.

What we need is a national organization of men trained and practiced and equipped to marshall our demonstrations, to be stewards. (The French, who have far more experience than we do in these sorts of things, have something called a 'service d'ordre' -- each mass organization has one.)

We need something like this. They form a ring around our demonstrations. They are prepared to deal with AntiFa counter-demonstrators. (Body armor, helmets, special reinforced protest signs that can stop thrown objects, bear spray, first-aid squads, 'snatch squads' , comms and intel teams to coordinate things... it's all been worked out.

No guns, at the moment. Anyone who proposes bringing firearms to our demonstrations, other than legal concealed carry that stays concealed [and in really tense situations, even that is problematic -- in any case, it's a tactical decision], is a policeman/infiltrator or a brass-bound fool. Our movement has plenty of both.)

If we had had something like that in Washington, they could have dealt with the provocateurs and crazies.

We didn't, and paid -- and are paying and will go on paying -- the price.

So we had better start organizing something like this. Some people who seem to know what they're doing are the former Oathkeepers in Arizona, here:
[ HTTPS//YCPT.org] and their national organizing committee, here: [United States County Preparedness Teams]

Some people evidently think that sitting at home on their behinds trading kindergarten-level insults with Lefties on line is fighting the good fight. It's not.

Your word salad isn't worth reading. There was no insurrection. I bet you believe in the conspriscay theory of Trump Russian collusion. I bet you get your daily bullshit meal from democrat controlled mainstream media.
And if you believe a leftist has some redeeming worth you're as clueless as they are.

 

[Doug1943]

I think most of our problems/issues are culturally-based, and this is no exception.

First, I just can't get past the saying "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". And it's screamingly obvious that the weekly slaughter we see on the streets of major cities are not perpetrated by people who would be affected by gun laws.

Second, I do think that the burgeoning DEMAND for guns we're seeing is culturally - sociologically - politically based, as many on the Right feel they have to stock up for some upcoming invasion of the Chinese or Hitler or Satan or whatever. So I don't look at guns, including AR15 or CC laws, as being a big deal.

But third, I disagree with the hard Right when they bristle at comprehensive background checks and stronger national record-keeping. That is a perfectly reasonable request, and it seems to me that the hard Right thinks that giving a goddamn inch is equal to complete surrender. Because that's just paranoia talking. Bend a little. You won't break.

So, as with virtually every issue, I have reasonable agreements and disagreements with both ends here.

Yes. Under normal circumstances, I would be with you on background checks, etc.
But, as you say, these are not normal circumstances.

Here is what my side, or most of them, fear re. background checks.

If what these checks revealed were people who had a history of violence towards their wives, or who had been in a mental institution because God was talking to them and urging them to destroy the pawns of Satan around him ... that sort of thing ... well, fair enough. It might catch a few, although i suspect it would be about as effect as under-age drinking laws. ("Hey, sir .. I'll give you five bucks if you go into this store and buy me a couple of six-packs." Yes, I know about "strawman purchases" and the penalties for them. I just don't think they'd work very well against anyone really determined to get a gun.

Here's what we fear about 'background checks': that the 'background' that they will find makes one unsuitable to own a firearm is a background of: distrust of the authorities; adhering to a patriotic organization like the Oathkeepers or the Three Percenters or the Proud Boys; posting things like that quote from Thomas Jefferson, the one about how the tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and of tyrants. We've got lots of people who say things that, taken out of context, would be used by Lefties on these 'review boards' to say, 'Nope... he's clearly too dangerous to own a weapon'. And ... it seems that government employment tends to turn people into lefties ... or maybe it's self-selection.

Here's a compromise. Let's go back to the 'Original Intent' of the Second: that the people should be as well-armed as the government. Today, that means access to serious firepower. So ... let's radically extend the idea of the State Guard ( [ State defense force - Wikipedia ]. Let's have 'County Guards' ... make them true citizens' armies. Open to any adult without a felony criminal record, who is willing to undergo some minimal training ... which could be done over a series of weekends, and during summer holidays. Keep the serious weapons secure in the homes of trusted veteran commanders.

And on the other hand, let's make use of a firearm to commit a crime carry real punishment: amputation of the trigger finger. Do it under anesthetic and it's not cruel, do it often enough and it's not unusual, so it passes that Constitutional test.

Deal?

 

[Doug1943]

Your word salad isn't worth reading. There was no insurrection. I bet you believe in the conspriscay theory of Trump Russian collusion. I bet you get your daily bullshit meal from democrat controlled mainstream media.
And if you believe a leftist has some redeeming worth you're as clueless as they are.

Get someone to read it out loud to you. (And you won't be able to answer the questions at the end. Go on, I dare you.)

Actually, I read everything I can, Left and Right.

I know all about the 'Trump-Russian' collusion myth, and am just about to post a link to an excellent Imprimus on, among other things, this very issue. (You won't have heard of Imprimus, and Hillsdale College, of course, and couldn't understand their articles if you saw an issue.)

And, you know who has done the best job of blowing the whole 'Trump-Russian' collusion myth out of the water? Who has been turning the Left inside out over the question of Twitter's being turned into a government propaganda outlet?

A guy named Matt Taibbi . AND HE IS (OR WAS) ON THE LEFT! But he's an HONEST person. Taibbi is, or was, hardcore: he wrote a piece for Vox I think it was (you won't have heard of them either), exulting over the death of Andrew Breitbart. (You probably haven't heard of him either). But ...he's no ass-kisser for the Establishment. And so he's the guy Elon Musk chose to tell the world about the FBI-Twitter connection. And he's done a great job of it.

More about Taibbi here: [ Matt Taibbi - Wikipedia ]

And more about non-conservative non-conformists here:
[ Intellectual dark web - Wikipedia ]

To the conservatives with a brain who might be reading this. A movement is made up of all grades of human material. There are more than 80 million patriots in America, and of course we're going to have some fairly stupid, offensive people in our ranks, out in the fourth or fifty standard deviation.

You might say, better they're with us than with the other side.

Everything else being equal of course, that's true.

But ... consider this: this sort of person -- narrow minded, uneducated, unempathetic to anyone not like him -- also repels people we want to reach. What do you want to bet his attitude toward Blacks is? Towards gays? Towards women who aren't barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? These people are liabilities.

And they are a positive help to the Left, for that reason. They allow people on the Left to say, "See .. they're all that way! That's your typical conservative!"

If these people didn't exist, the Left would have to invent them, by sending a few of their people into our ranks, to be as stupid and offensive as possible while pretending to be typical conservatives..

Come to think of it....

 

[Doug1943]

Too bad you have no actual evidence of any of these left conspiracies and false flag operations. None.

You brainwashed functional morons were listening to the Orange Clown telling you to go to the capital and overturn an election.

Okay. What would you consider "evidence"? What would make you believe that there were people in that crowd who were NOT Trump supporters, but who were actively pushing them to enter the Capitol?

Remember, to start with, the crowed just moved towards the Capitol. They didn't carry Molotov cocktails, aiming to burn it down, like your side did in various cities to courthouses and police stations. (What do you think about that, by the way?)

They weren't even instructed to push their way in and occupy the Capitol "non-violently", as your side did in Wisconsin. (With Nancy Pelosi's support.)

They were just marching to the Capitol. But when they got there, people were saying, "Go in!" Now, a crowd has no good sense. This is well known, there have been famouis books written about this, almost 200 years ago. [ Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds - Wikipedia ]

People do things in crowds that they wouldn't do if they were presented with the choice of doing them in a non-crowd environment.

And ... what would someone going into the Capitol think? "Whoa, we'll burst into Congress and they'll be so scared that they will vote to overturn the election!"

I know you think we're dumb, but really.... Yes, we do have some terminally-stupid people on our side, just as you do on yours. All human life is there. So we have had some fantasists thinking they were acting out something from Rambo, if "thinking" is the right word for whatever was churning around in their brains.

But most people there just marched toward the Capitol, and found people urging them to go in. And crowd-think took over.

It was a crowd, doing a crowd-like stupid thing.

But ... did they have a little help in this?

So, please answer the question: are you saying there were no provocateurs in that crowd? Not even one? That every single person urging the crowd to do a stupid thing and invade the Capitol was a sincere Trump supporter ... albeit perhaps a mad one, like the Q-Shaman, about whom we've just learned something interesting.

Okay, Franco, over to you!

 

[Mac1958]

...some real effort is needed...

Well, we're currently hurtling in the other direction.

Communication and collaboration are now equated with capitulation.

That isn't what made America great, that's for damn sure.

 

[francoHFW]

Worse debate tactic ever.

i'm not really debating you, I am teaching you the facts. it's not my fault If you can't listen LOL....

 

[francoHFW]

Okay. What would you consider "evidence"? What would make you believe that there were people in that crowd who were NOT Trump supporters, but who were actively pushing them to enter the Capitol?

Remember, to start with, the crowed just moved towards the Capitol. They didn't carry Molotov cocktails, aiming to burn it down, like your side did in various cities to courthouses and police stations. (What do you think about that, by the way?)

They weren't even instructed to push their way in and occupy the Capitol "non-violently", as your side did in Wisconsin. (With Nancy Pelosi's support.)

They were just marching to the Capitol. But when they got there, people were saying, "Go in!" Now, a crowd has no good sense. This is well known, there have been famouis books written about this, almost 200 years ago. [ Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds - Wikipedia ]

People do things in crowds that they wouldn't do if they were presented with the choice of doing them in a non-crowd environment.

And ... what would someone going into the Capitol think? "Whoa, we'll burst into Congress and they'll be so scared that they will vote to overturn the election!"

I know you think we're dumb, but really.... Yes, we do have some terminally-stupid people on our side, just as you do on yours. All human life is there. So we have had some fantasists thinking they were acting out something from Rambo, if "thinking" is the right word for whatever was churning around in their brains.

But most people there just marched toward the Capitol, and found people urging them to go in. And crowd-think took over.

It was a crowd, doing a crowd-like stupid thing.

But ... did they have a little help in this?

So, please answer the question: are you saying there were no provocateurs in that crowd? Not even one? That every single person urging the crowd to do a stupid thing and invade the Capitol was a sincere Trump supporter ... albeit perhaps a mad one, like the Q-Shaman, about whom we've just learned something interesting.

Okay, Franco, over to you!

all I can say is that our marvelous legal system has arrested 600 people from your side and they haven't found a single person who's a provocateur. I want evidence that will stand up in court like every person ever who has a brain LOL. meanwhile your garbage propaganda and Scumbag pundits have convinced you that the FBI the DOJ all the Republican election officials and lawyers and judges and a law enforcement are in on the conspiracy against the Orange Clown and you brainwashed functional morons...

and my college caught the only FBI agent provocator ever. who got 2 freshman to blow up the ROTC building and was supposedly at Kent State before that if you know what I mean LOL. Of course scumbag Nixon and Hoover weren't interested in investigating that...

 

[francoHFW]

Well, we're currently hurtling in the other direction.

Communication and collaboration are now equated with capitulation.

That isn't what made America great, that's for damn sure.

the criminals with Molotov cocktails and late night rioting were antifa and common criminals And gangster wannabes who are not democrats. the Antifa things were in Portland and Seattle and Oakland and you've been shown them a million times. Laughable really. The Democrats like BLM went home before the trouble started basically. And they were protesting something that was real, not made up by propagandists and nut jobs.....

 

[francoHFW]

Many don't even have kids at home? Do you think the School board wants to hear from you?
Many are working. Don't have time to read 3 page essays or go to night time PTA meetings.

We have dealt with these Libstain loons long enough. We have been civil for decades. They don't bend, they don't learn, they don't understand.
A basic chart was shown to two morons on this very board and they don't have a clue of understanding. Instead they run off saying "TAX the RICH".
They stole the 2020 Election installing a CCP puppet. We are losing our retirement savings and you want us to talk more NICELY to a bunch of Criminals.?

Do you see how they communicate? and have for 25 years or more? see the RWinger or Candycorn in other threads.
Franco and this Hutch thing are simply different.
Good Lord help us.

sorry about reality, brainwashed functional moron LOL. try reality sometime. No matter how much we tax the rich we'll never get more than 20%? that is absolutely stupid LOL

 

[francoHFW]

sorry about reality, brainwashed functional moron LOL. try reality sometime. No matter how much we tax the rich we'll never get more than 20%? that is absolutely stupid LOL

not as long as Republicans are strong enough to obstruct everything like the last 40 years....or 57...

 

[Doug1943]

all I can say is that our marvelous legal system has arrested 600 people from your side and they haven't found a single person who's a provocateur. I want evidence that will stand up in court like every person ever who has a brain LOL. meanwhile your garbage propaganda and Scumbag pundits have convinced you that the FBI the DOJ all the Republican election officials and lawyers and judges and a law enforcement are in on the conspiracy against the Orange Clown and you brainwashed functional morons...

and my college caught the only FBI agent provocator ever. who got 2 freshman to blow up the ROTC building and was supposedly at Kent State before that if you know what I mean LOL. Of course scumbag Nixon and Hoover weren't interested in investigating that...

And ... "our marvelous legal system has arrested 600 people from your side and they haven't found a single person who's a provocateur."

Franco, guy, listen to yourself! The people who may have sent in the provocateurs, haven't found any!!! This is really self-parody. You think they would arrest themselves? Or bring charges against themselves, if they accidentally arrested one of their people?

Check out one Ray Epps. I read his testimony before the Congressional Committee, and it sounded reasonable to me, so I switched my tentative opinion on him.

But maybe I was wrong. Read about him here (the Independent is a left-leaning British daily newspaper):
[ Who is Ray Epps? The FBI’s Capitol riot figure who has not been charged ]

He was briefly head of the Oathkeepers in Arizona, over a decade ago. Then he just faded out. Friends of mine there, who were in the Oathkeepers then, say they don't know why he vanished ... as opposed to remaining a rank and file member.

As for FBI provocations, etc in the 60s-70s. Yes. It's how they smashed the Klan in Meridian, Mississippi. Probably through what was technically entrapment. But there was a kind of happy ending, in the life story of this remarkable man -- a testament to the power of religion to turn lives around:

[ Former Klansman Turned Christian Warns Churches to 'Wake Up' and Confront Hatred in Divided America ]

And of course they had people in the Left then. (Anyone interested in this subject should read Heavy Radicals,
[ Heavy Radicals - The FBI's Secret War on America's Maoi… ] )

Now ... I don't know that there were provocateurs in that crowd. But if there were, then of course their handlers would do everything they could to make sure they were not later identified as such.

And if there were, we should have been smart enough to thwart their plans. But 'smartness' has to be embodied in an organization. And that's what we lack.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Get someone to read it out loud to you. (And you won't be able to answer the questions at the end. Go on, I dare you.)

Actually, I read everything I can, Left and Right.

I know all about the 'Trump-Russian' collusion myth, and am just about to post a link to an excellent Imprimus on, among other things, this very issue. (You won't have heard of Imprimus, and Hillsdale College, of course, and couldn't understand their articles if you saw an issue.)

And, you know who has done the best job of blowing the whole 'Trump-Russian' collusion myth out of the water? Who has been turning the Left inside out over the question of Twitter's being turned into a government propaganda outlet?

A guy named Matt Taibbi . AND HE IS (OR WAS) ON THE LEFT! But he's an HONEST person. Taibbi is, or was, hardcore: he wrote a piece for Vox I think it was (you won't have heard of them either), exulting over the death of Andrew Breitbart. (You probably haven't heard of him either). But ...he's no ass-kisser for the Establishment. And so he's the guy Elon Musk chose to tell the world about the FBI-Twitter connection. And he's done a great job of it.

More about Taibbi here: [ Matt Taibbi - Wikipedia ]

And more about non-conservative non-conformists here:
[ Intellectual dark web - Wikipedia ]

To the conservatives with a brain who might be reading this. A movement is made up of all grades of human material. There are more than 80 million patriots in America, and of course we're going to have some fairly stupid, offensive people in our ranks, out in the fourth or fifty standard deviation.

You might say, better they're with us than with the other side.

Everything else being equal of course, that's true.

But ... consider this: this sort of person -- narrow minded, uneducated, unempathetic to anyone not like him -- also repels people we want to reach. What do you want to bet his attitude toward Blacks is? Towards gays? Towards women who aren't barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? These people are liabilities.

And they are a positive help to the Left, for that reason. They allow people on the Left to say, "See .. they're all that way! That's your typical conservative!"

If these people didn't exist, the Left would have to invent them, by sending a few of their people into our ranks, to be as stupid and offensive as possible while pretending to be typical conservatives..

Come to think of it....

I'm not reading your word salad
All that counts is that you are ignorant enough to want to reach out to leftists
Fuck off

 

[Doug1943]

only in Murdoch/internet conspiracy nut world LOL.... the only person whoever changed sides of this debate was due to me- approximately 2017 LOL... It's like, as a salesman, I am a teacher LOL

Franco: you have not answered my question to you. I gave you several documented examples of leftwingers breaking up peaceful conservative meetings: at Cornell and Stanford, and with active violence at Middlebury College. I could give more, but these should be enough to show a pattern.

Do you support or condemn their actions?

 

[Doug1943]

I'm not reading your word salad
All that counts is that you are ignorant enough to want to reach out to leftists
Fuck off

"Molon Labe"! Come and take my brain ... you won't be able to find it.
I repeat: half the founding editorial board of National Review -- not that you've ever heard of that publication, I suppose -- were ex-Marxists.

Look, just because you can't argue or discuss with Leftists, because they always beat you when you try, doesn't mean that everyone is that inadequate.

We can win some of these people over. Events are proving that we are right. Anyone who believes in Free Speech, must leave the Left. A first step.

The only people who don't want us to pull people away from the Left, are ... Leftists!

 

[leftwinger]

sorry about reality, brainwashed functional moron LOL. try reality sometime. No matter how much we tax the rich we'll never get more than 20%? that is absolutely stupid LOL

I posted close to 100 years of data above. 100yrs is available but it shows the same.
At one point TOP INCOME TAX RATE was at 91%.....yet FED REVENUE only took home ~20% of GDP.
But you can do better because you don't like it? you don't believe it?
I am of the opinion (DATA shows) INCOMETAX rate on the RICH won't get high revenue to FED GOVT as you are after.

I suggested you would have to change the TAX rules. Yet you don't even seem to understand?
You can't simply TAX income (maybe the rich don't have income, thats' why they are rich. they don't have to work) but you started posting more TAX the RICH BS.
Maybe raise Business TAX.....to 90%? But then will Business hire? Will They shut down? Will they move overseas? Will they wait it out?
Maybe a massive increase on Capital Gains to 99%? would anyone bother to trade Stocks?
Maybe TAX ACCUMULATED WEALTH? Perhaps Can't do that because They already paid tax on it when they made money or inherited money?
People already pay sales tax, property tax, utility tax........I posted $100K property tax example for a rich house........and you ran off.

What do you suggest?


What a nuisance. so far you add nothing but nonsense. "TAX the RICH"? HOW!!!
Wasting so much of others time. Get off the boards. Go read up on it.

Not one of your LW EXPERTs in here will help out to put you in your place as you spout nonsense w/o even understanding it?

 

[leftwinger]

I'm not reading your word salad
All that counts is that you are ignorant enough to want to reach out to leftists
Fuck off

He is the sort to ignore what he does not understand or like.
Facts confuse him. I posted above about some don't have kids.
Can you get into School meetings without? Many work (me) and are too busy.

He rushed on past because he is saddled up with MAC and the phonies.
Trying to get us to bend over for the LW loons who nearly burned up 10 cities in 2020.
1000s' of Police cars burned up. LW loons are OK with all that.
$100B damages. yet they focus on a few Capitol trespassers many just looking around.