The U.S., for the first time, uses the MOAB bomb....So what?

[Weatherman2020]

So that's what, $500,000 per isis killed ?

Still simple-minded I see.

What else might this have done?

Seems like "overkill " so to speak . The Afghan government is not happy about it either.

The attitude that we have to use these weapons , just because they exist, is a dangerous and expensive one.

One can only imagine the fainting fits if Trump bragged that he’s "really good at killing people"
Obama Told Aides He's 'Really Good At Killing People,' New Book 'Double Down' Claims | The Huffington Post

 

[Weatherman2020]

So that's what, $500,000 per isis killed ?

Still simple-minded I see.

What else might this have done?

Seems like "overkill " so to speak . The Afghan government is not happy about it either.

The attitude that we have to use these weapons , just because they exist, is a dangerous and expensive one.

We have to use these weapons because tunnel rats with turbans are digging deeper into their rat holes -- is why.

So we are told .

Just how complex are these tunnels ?! I don't imagine terrorists groups have high end rock burrowing equipment.

Neither did the Japanese or NVA.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So apparently they killed 36 ISIS fighters with the biggest bomb ever.

That might indeed make it the biggest bomb ever, in the way a movie might be so described.

What did it do to their hiding place?

How many troops would have died going into those tunnels after them?

How does the Afghan President feel about it?

"Afghan President Ashraf Ghani said he approved of the strike and that it was designed to support Afghan forces and US forces conducting clearance operations in the region."

Afghanistan: US defends dropping 'mother of all bombs' - CNN.com

Did the Afghani President approve of it enough to foot the bill?

 

[usmbguest5318]

How else do you destroy an extensive underground tunnel and cave system being used by the enemy as a base of operations to carry out their regime of obscene terror? These are bad guys, dammit, who have invaded our peace and the peace of most of the Western world. Do you really not want them gone?

Trump's military top brass felt it was appropriate and they no doubt ran it by Trump, who said do what you gotta do.

I don't have a problem with using the MOAB to destroy said installations and the users of them. As I noted in my OP, I didn't even need to be told that they used the MOAB.

I have a problem with there being, subsequent to doing so, no credible and believable messages being issued that show why doing so was prioritized and highlighted over completing the defeat of ISIS in Syria and Iraq where it is far stronger than it is in Afghanistan and where we've for some two years or so been hearing, almost daily, that is where the ISIS problem is most pressing. I'm sure there are reasons, they may well be good reasons -- the preemptive one I posited early may be one and may be others -- but whatever they are, we who pay for all of what our military does, deserve an explanation for why, out of the blue, converting a mountain in Afghanistan into a pile of gravel is suddenly so important.

The news, since the event, has been babbling about "shows of strength" as a message to the DPRK and others. Well, you know what? Was there ever any credible basis for doubting the U.S.' military strength and capability? After all, the U.S. spends as much as on our military the next six or seven most powerful militaries on the planet. Unless someone can show me that all that "excess" spending goes to labor (or is entirely wasted, which, frankly, is even less plausible), administration, and maintenance rather than materiel and equipment, there's no reason to think the U.S. military is insufficiently powerful.

Is criticizing every decision made under the Trump administration more important to you than getting rid of ISIS/terrorism?

No.

we have to start actually fighting in order to win.

I agree with that. I don't know whether I concur that my government's decision to bomb a mountain in A-stan and than convert having done so into publicity "stunt" has, from a priorities standpoint, has much to do with actually winning against ISIS when all we've heard is that ISIS is strongest in Iraq and Syria. The fact of the matter is that bomb -- MOAB's official meaning is "Massive Ordnance Air Blast" -- is equally effective against targets that aren't bunkered in a mountain. I want to know why we didn't use it to utterly eradicate an ISIS position in one of the two places where, by all reports, we actually need to see ISIS "gone" sooner rather than later.

 

[Dragonlady]

36 ISIS fighters killed???? Out of 600 to 800 which the US military said were there?

So now the bombing was just "sending ISIS a message". For $300 million fucking dollars, they should be wiped off the face of the earth.

 

[boedicca]

So that's what, $500,000 per isis killed ?

Still simple-minded I see.

What else might this have done?

Seems like "overkill " so to speak . The Afghan government is not happy about it either.

The attitude that we have to use these weapons , just because they exist, is a dangerous and expensive one.

We have to use these weapons because tunnel rats with turbans are digging deeper into their rat holes -- is why.

So we are told .

Just how complex are these tunnels ?! I don't imagine terrorists groups have high end rock burrowing equipment.

The caves were well known to enable terrorists to hide, organize and stash weapons. It's a good thing that we bombed the shit out of it.

 

[usmbguest5318]

It's coming over the news that the U.S. forces for the first time, so we're told, dropped the Mother of All Bombs (MOAB) on one (several?) ISIS positions in Afghanistan. So what? Why does anyone need to know that? The whole world knows that the U.S. is actively fighting ISIS in Iraq and Afghanistan. It should not come as a surprise that the U.S. drops bombs there, big ones, little ones, and in-between ones.

Do you really give a damn what specific munitions the U.S. uses? Do you just care that U.S. forces have and use the appropriate munition for the situation they face? The latter is all I care about. I don't care what type of conventional weapons U.S. forces use in combat.

I'm wondering why the hell we'd advertise that we've dropped the most destructive/powerful bomb in our inventory. If there were any doubt in our opponents' mind about the force limit of our bombs, well, now they need no longer wonder. The problem with that is that now that we've told everyone that we used the MOAB, anyone to whom it matters knows what they must do to protect themselves from it. Better, IMO, to have just dropped the thing and discussed the results it achieved. There's no need to disclose that we dropped the "biggest, baddest" bomb we have.

Massive Ordinance Air Blast is what it stands for.

Mo Of All Bombs is what the snuffies/airmen call it.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

 

[Weatherman2020]

So apparently they killed 36 ISIS fighters with the biggest bomb ever.

That might indeed make it the biggest bomb ever, in the way a movie might be so described.

What did it do to their hiding place?

How many troops would have died going into those tunnels after them?

How does the Afghan President feel about it?

"Afghan President Ashraf Ghani said he approved of the strike and that it was designed to support Afghan forces and US forces conducting clearance operations in the region."

Afghanistan: US defends dropping 'mother of all bombs' - CNN.com

Did the Afghani President approve of it enough to foot the bill?

Suddenly the left are concerned about spending!

IS THERE ANYTHING TRUMP CAN'T DO?

 

[Weatherman2020]

36 ISIS fighters killed???? Out of 600 to 800 which the US military said were there?

So now the bombing was just "sending ISIS a message". For $300 million fucking dollars, they should be wiped off the face of the earth.

See post 108!

 

[Auld Phart]

So that's what, $500,000 per isis killed ?

Still simple-minded I see.

What else might this have done?

Seems like "overkill " so to speak . The Afghan government is not happy about it either.

The attitude that we have to use these weapons , just because they exist, is a dangerous and expensive one.

The Afghan government is not happy about it either.

according to who?

Afghanistan: US defends dropping 'mother of all bombs' - CNN.com

"Afghan President Ashraf Ghani said he approved of the strike and that it was designed to support Afghan forces and US forces conducting clearance operations in the region."

I literally heard the opposite story on the radio this morning.

I'll look for a link .

I watched the Afghan Ambassador on CNN while he was making that statement.
If you click on my link, you can see it as well

 

[usmbguest5318]

It's coming over the news that the U.S. forces for the first time, so we're told, dropped the Mother of All Bombs (MOAB) on one (several?) ISIS positions in Afghanistan. So what? Why does anyone need to know that? The whole world knows that the U.S. is actively fighting ISIS in Iraq and Afghanistan. It should not come as a surprise that the U.S. drops bombs there, big ones, little ones, and in-between ones.

Do you really give a damn what specific munitions the U.S. uses? Do you just care that U.S. forces have and use the appropriate munition for the situation they face? The latter is all I care about. I don't care what type of conventional weapons U.S. forces use in combat.

I'm wondering why the hell we'd advertise that we've dropped the most destructive/powerful bomb in our inventory. If there were any doubt in our opponents' mind about the force limit of our bombs, well, now they need no longer wonder. The problem with that is that now that we've told everyone that we used the MOAB, anyone to whom it matters knows what they must do to protect themselves from it. Better, IMO, to have just dropped the thing and discussed the results it achieved. There's no need to disclose that we dropped the "biggest, baddest" bomb we have.

Well it used to be that 1000 lb bombs dropped from a B-52 were the most powerful.

But the USA and Russia have now topped that with the 10,000 lb MOAB's.

Bad news for anyone on the ground.

The MOAB is being used like a bunker buster for caves.

Just means that the tunnel rats are no longer safe in their rat holes.

I suspect everyone is afraid to employ a tactical nuke -- although one of these would work ever better -- forming a huge glowing crater where a mountain used to be.

It doesn't bother me that we used the MOAB. Truly, I don't too much care what conventional munitions we use to accomplish our military objectives. I discussed in my response to OldLady the two things about which I have questions, perhaps reservations though I don't know enough information about the set of circumstances involved to know yet whether I have reservations.

In my response to OldLady, I focused mainly on the prioritization aspect and briefly remarked upon the publicity aspect, but make no mistake, I find it heinously reprehensible that my government might drop a bomb to make a publicity opportunity out of it, yet it seems that may be what was done. I am sorry, but even as I value ISIS lives far less than I do most all others, the fact remains that they are living breathing humans, and they deserve more than just being used, destroyed, for publicity purposes....not much more, but more nonetheless.

 

[Markle]

So we are told .

Just how complex are these tunnels ?! I don't imagine terrorists groups have high end rock burrowing equipment.

But, they have many decades of experience, many decades to dig the tunnels and many, many hands. The Japanese used them to great effect in the Philippines, same in Vietnam, same in Afghanistan.

 

[Auld Phart]

So that's what, $500,000 per isis killed ?

Still simple-minded I see.

What else might this have done?

Seems like "overkill " so to speak . The Afghan government is not happy about it either.

The attitude that we have to use these weapons , just because they exist, is a dangerous and expensive one.

We have to use these weapons because tunnel rats with turbans are digging deeper into their rat holes -- is why.

So we are told .

Just how complex are these tunnels ?! I don't imagine terrorists groups have high end rock burrowing equipment.

Many are natural, and expanded on

 

[Weatherman2020]

So that's what, $500,000 per isis killed ?

Still simple-minded I see.

What else might this have done?

Seems like "overkill " so to speak . The Afghan government is not happy about it either.

The attitude that we have to use these weapons , just because they exist, is a dangerous and expensive one.

We have to use these weapons because tunnel rats with turbans are digging deeper into their rat holes -- is why.

So we are told .

Just how complex are these tunnels ?! I don't imagine terrorists groups have high end rock burrowing equipment.

What hand dug caves did for the enemy. Those caves are still there today, you used to be able to crawl around inside and still find Japanese grenades until they closed them off.

 

[Auld Phart]

36 ISIS fighters killed???? Out of 600 to 800 which the US military said were there?

So now the bombing was just "sending ISIS a message". For $300 million fucking dollars, they should be wiped off the face of the earth.

36 ISIS fighters killed???? Out of 600 to 800 which the US military said were there?

That's the number of bodies found so far.

moving thousands, if not millions, of tons of rock may bring more bodies to light

 

[yiostheoy]

It doesn't bother me that we used the MOAB. Truly, I don't too much care what conventional munitions we use to accomplish our military objectives. I discussed in my response to OldLady the two things about which I have questions, perhaps reservations though I don't know enough information about the set of circumstances involved to know yet whether I have reservations.

In my response to OldLady, I focused mainly on the prioritization aspect and briefly remarked upon the publicity aspect, but make no mistake, I find it heinously reprehensible that my government might drop a bomb to make a publicity opportunity out of it, yet it seems that may be what was done. I am sorry, but even as I value ISIS lives far less than I do most all others, the fact remains that they are living breathing humans, and they deserve more than just being used, destroyed, for publicity purposes....not much more, but more nonetheless.

When all the moosleem rag heads that call themselves ISIS and who go around murdering other people are themselves all finally dead, even if it takes expensive MOAB cave busting bombs, the world will be a better place.

These moosleems thought they could evade the rule of law and get away with murders. They are finding out that there are explosive contraptions that can reach down and if not crush them then at least bury them alive.

I'll be glad when all moosleems finally bow to Allah towards Mecca and pray for peace, not war, not jihad, not the death of infidels.

 

[yiostheoy]

36 ISIS fighters killed???? Out of 600 to 800 which the US military said were there?

So now the bombing was just "sending ISIS a message". For $300 million fucking dollars, they should be wiped off the face of the earth.

36 ISIS fighters killed???? Out of 600 to 800 which the US military said were there?

That's the number of bodies found so far.

moving thousands, if not millions, of tons of rock may bring more bodies to light

I think they should leave the crumbled rock where it is so that if anyone is still alive down there they can pray to Allah towards Mecca (if they can figure out in the dark which way Mecca is) as they suffocate and die -- slowly.

 

[yiostheoy]

36 ISIS fighters killed???? Out of 600 to 800 which the US military said were there?

So now the bombing was just "sending ISIS a message". For $300 million fucking dollars, they should be wiped off the face of the earth.

It's really hard to wipe someone or thing off the face of the Earth (remember to Capitalize Earth when you are using it as a name rather than just to mean dirt).

A tactical nuke would vaporize them or it, but those are really expensive too.

You need to mine the uranium.

You need to spin and purify it.

You need to make the shape charged explosive.

You need an electronic detonator.

You need to attach it to a missile with a dynamic navigation system.

Etc.

 

[Siete]

36 ISIS fighters killed???? Out of 600 to 800 which the US military said were there?

So now the bombing was just "sending ISIS a message". For $300 million fucking dollars, they should be wiped off the face of the earth.

36 ISIS fighters killed???? Out of 600 to 800 which the US military said were there?

That's the number of bodies found so far.

moving thousands, if not millions, of tons of rock may bring more bodies to light

where does the equipment to move millions of tons of rock come from, the Afghan farmers?

(Marine to Mohammed)

Hey buddy, can I borrow a shovel ?

 

[OldLady]

How else do you destroy an extensive underground tunnel and cave system being used by the enemy as a base of operations to carry out their regime of obscene terror? These are bad guys, dammit, who have invaded our peace and the peace of most of the Western world. Do you really not want them gone?

Trump's military top brass felt it was appropriate and they no doubt ran it by Trump, who said do what you gotta do.

I don't have a problem with using the MOAB to destroy said installations and the users of them. As I noted in my OP, I didn't even need to be told that they used the MOAB.

I have a problem with there being, subsequent to doing so, no credible and believable messages being issued that show why doing so was prioritized and highlighted over completing the defeat of ISIS in Syria and Iraq where it is far stronger than it is in Afghanistan and where we've for some two years or so been hearing, almost daily, that is where the ISIS problem is most pressing. I'm sure there are reasons, they may well be good reasons -- the preemptive one I posited early may be one and may be others -- but whatever they are, we who pay for all of what our military does, deserve an explanation for why, out of the blue, converting a mountain in Afghanistan into a pile of gravel is suddenly so important.

The news, since the event, has been babbling about "shows of strength" as a message to the DPRK and others. Well, you know what? Was there ever any credible basis for doubting the U.S.' military strength and capability? After all, the U.S. spends as much as on our military the next six or seven most powerful militaries on the planet. Unless someone can show me that all that "excess" spending goes to labor (or is entirely wasted, which, frankly, is even less plausible), administration, and maintenance rather than materiel and equipment, there's no reason to think the U.S. military is insufficiently powerful.

Is criticizing every decision made under the Trump administration more important to you than getting rid of ISIS/terrorism?

No.

we have to start actually fighting in order to win.

I agree with that. I don't know whether I concur that my government's decision to bomb a mountain in A-stan and than convert having done so into publicity "stunt" has, from a priorities standpoint, has much to do with actually winning against ISIS when all we've heard is that ISIS is strongest in Iraq and Syria. The fact of the matter is that bomb -- MOAB's official meaning is "Massive Ordnance Air Blast" -- is equally effective against targets that aren't bunkered in a mountain. I want to know why we didn't use it to utterly eradicate an ISIS position in one of the two places where, by all reports, we actually need to see ISIS "gone" sooner rather than later.

The news, since the event, has been babbling about "shows of strength" as a message to the DPRK and others.
That might be some people's "read" on the situation, but I don't believe that is why it was used. Pundits will spin and try to find interesting stuff to say about any piece of news, but I don't find it important.

no credible and believable messages being issued that show why doing so was prioritized and highlighted over completing the defeat of ISIS in Syria and Iraq where it is far stronger than it is in Afghanistan
My understanding (and I could be wrong) was that the war in Afghanistan has been going longer and that we have more troops there than in Iraq and Syria. I keep hearing reports now and then that the terrorist activity is growing. It seems we have had more troops in Afghanistan killed recently than in Iraq or Syria. So I'm not sure why Afghanistan as a theater of operations should have any less emphasis than Iraq and Syria. Perhaps we should learn our lesson from ignoring ISIS when it first got a foothold in Iraq. If it is now growing in Afghanistan, it might be a good idea to stop it now rather than later.

Is criticizing every decision made under the Trump administration more important to you than getting rid of ISIS/terrorism?
No.
You realize I wasn't responding to you, right?