The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[AllieBaba]

You have it backwards. The Constitution ENDED the church's domination over the population and government as it had been here and in Europe.

First of all, point out for us who in this thread made the claim that the Constitution was NOT an answer to and a defeat of the Church of England? That statement answers nothing in my last post, or any other claim made in this thread (that I am aware of). Do you understand the difference between the Church of England’s relationship to the monarchy, and a republic founded upon Judeo-Christian morals and precepts? Seriously, I don’t mean any offense to you or to “get in your face,” but I’ve seen you confuse things of this sort over and over in this thread.

Secondly, while the Constitution certainly was a start regarding the church/state relationship, it was faaaar from “ENDING” (as you say) that discussion. The First Amendment was not ratified until 1789 and was not adopted until 1791; this was nearly halfway into Washington’s entire service as president. Do I even have to mention Jefferson’s struggle with these issues? He left office in 1809. Was this issue all wrapped up in a nice, neat, little bow at that time?



“If”? “If”??

Permit me to reiterate a part of my post you chose to completely ignore. The purpose of the 1787 Congressional land act was for the federal government to designate the use of federal lands “for the sole use of Christian Indians and the Moravian Brethren Missionaries for the civilizing of the Indians and promoting Christianity.” I don’t see any ifs there; do you?

Keeping in mind your claim of no governmental promotion of Christianity, answer the following:

George Washington instituted Thanksgiving as a federal holiday in 1789. For what purpose?

In 1854, Congress passed a resolution including verbiage defining what they felt was of extreme importance to our governmental system. What was so important?

Would you like something a tad more current? A joint resolution of the House and Senate officially sanctioned 1983 as The Year of the ______?




Once again, no offense, but there’s so much error there it’s hard to know where to start.

First of all, the Founders were struggling with specific issues relating to governmental aid to religious institutions, not overarching issues of religious foundations in government. Jefferson and Madison believed that state financial aid to religious institutions would inevitably lead to another Church-State. Patrick Henry, among others, believed that as long as one denomination was not favored over the over, there was nothing wrong with state aid. (More on this in a bit when I address the second half of your post.) In other words, this has nothing to do with, for example, declaring that man has unalienable rights because he was created in God’s image and implementing a system guaranteeing that ideal.

Quite the contrary, the Constitution- and post-Constitution-era culture universally believed, and quite strongly at that, that one of government’s duties was to promote Christianity and moral living amongst the citizenry. Any attempts to implement some sort of “God has no place in government” ideal would have been viewed as nothing short of repugnant, and met with universal indignation. In fact, this view of yours did even to begin to gain traction until the mid 1960’s.

Regarding the second half of your statement, you claim “[Henry and supporters] stated the nation was founded on Christian tenets and the Founders disagreed and ran them off,” is a wildly gross distortion. The notion that Patrick Henry and those that agreed with him stood up against the others with the statement “we are founded on Christian tenets,” and the others, allegedly disagreeing with that specific statement (as you imply), thusly “ran them off” is not found in any history book or meeting minutes I am aware of. This incident, as you have represented it here, quite simply NEVER HAPPENED. As I explained earlier, they disagreed over the extent to which religious institutions should receive government aid (and would struggle with this issue, by the way, through several administrations). They were specifically concerned with how government aid might affect 1) The rise of another Church-State (which some territories had already created), and 2) The governmental promotion of one Christian denomination over the other. That’s it. That’s all. It was in no way some sort of “religion has no place in government” ideal as you have attempted to represent here.

The Founders knew that the best way for a government to run was to stay out of religion altogether.
Religion is a personal thing, not a government thing.

Oh? Is that so? I’ll try this one more time. I’m going to repeat a question you completely avoided last time: What was the Founders’ view of civil law vis-à-vis Divine Law?

Your claim that the Founders were arguing over which religous institutions would get aid and which would not is absurd. FALSE AND A BOGUS FRAUD ARGUMENT.
They declared NO religous institution would get ANY aid and you know it.
Your entire post is full of opinion and no fact.
Show me where GOD is in the Constitution and where government can give legal aid to any religous institution.
James Madison STATED AT THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION:
"Religion itself may become a motive to PERSECUTION AND OPPRESSION"
Read it and weep. The Founders SPOKE PUBLICLY they wanted NO PART of any religion anywhere in government.
Madison led the charge THAT NO TAX be passed, as your buddies tried that, to aid ANY RELIGOUS EFFORTS, and he prevailed. Founders sure were smart, weren't they?
First draft by Madison was the State of New Hampshire's Constitution wording on religion:
"Congress shall MAKE NO LAWS TOUCHING ON RELIGION."

Another retard who doesn't know what "founded" means and apparently confuses it with "law".
Who also doesn't understand that adhering to Christian tenets does not mean establishing a theocracy.

It's impossible to argue with intellectually backwards people.

 

[JScott]

First of all, point out for us who in this thread made the claim that the Constitution was NOT an answer to and a defeat of the Church of England? That statement answers nothing in my last post, or any other claim made in this thread (that I am aware of). Do you understand the difference between the Church of England’s relationship to the monarchy, and a republic founded upon Judeo-Christian morals and precepts? Seriously, I don’t mean any offense to you or to “get in your face,” but I’ve seen you confuse things of this sort over and over in this thread.

Secondly, while the Constitution certainly was a start regarding the church/state relationship, it was faaaar from “ENDING” (as you say) that discussion. The First Amendment was not ratified until 1789 and was not adopted until 1791; this was nearly halfway into Washington’s entire service as president. Do I even have to mention Jefferson’s struggle with these issues? He left office in 1809. Was this issue all wrapped up in a nice, neat, little bow at that time?



“If”? “If”??

Permit me to reiterate a part of my post you chose to completely ignore. The purpose of the 1787 Congressional land act was for the federal government to designate the use of federal lands “for the sole use of Christian Indians and the Moravian Brethren Missionaries for the civilizing of the Indians and promoting Christianity.” I don’t see any ifs there; do you?

Keeping in mind your claim of no governmental promotion of Christianity, answer the following:

George Washington instituted Thanksgiving as a federal holiday in 1789. For what purpose?

In 1854, Congress passed a resolution including verbiage defining what they felt was of extreme importance to our governmental system. What was so important?

Would you like something a tad more current? A joint resolution of the House and Senate officially sanctioned 1983 as The Year of the ______?




Once again, no offense, but there’s so much error there it’s hard to know where to start.

First of all, the Founders were struggling with specific issues relating to governmental aid to religious institutions, not overarching issues of religious foundations in government. Jefferson and Madison believed that state financial aid to religious institutions would inevitably lead to another Church-State. Patrick Henry, among others, believed that as long as one denomination was not favored over the over, there was nothing wrong with state aid. (More on this in a bit when I address the second half of your post.) In other words, this has nothing to do with, for example, declaring that man has unalienable rights because he was created in God’s image and implementing a system guaranteeing that ideal.

Quite the contrary, the Constitution- and post-Constitution-era culture universally believed, and quite strongly at that, that one of government’s duties was to promote Christianity and moral living amongst the citizenry. Any attempts to implement some sort of “God has no place in government” ideal would have been viewed as nothing short of repugnant, and met with universal indignation. In fact, this view of yours did even to begin to gain traction until the mid 1960’s.

Regarding the second half of your statement, you claim “[Henry and supporters] stated the nation was founded on Christian tenets and the Founders disagreed and ran them off,” is a wildly gross distortion. The notion that Patrick Henry and those that agreed with him stood up against the others with the statement “we are founded on Christian tenets,” and the others, allegedly disagreeing with that specific statement (as you imply), thusly “ran them off” is not found in any history book or meeting minutes I am aware of. This incident, as you have represented it here, quite simply NEVER HAPPENED. As I explained earlier, they disagreed over the extent to which religious institutions should receive government aid (and would struggle with this issue, by the way, through several administrations). They were specifically concerned with how government aid might affect 1) The rise of another Church-State (which some territories had already created), and 2) The governmental promotion of one Christian denomination over the other. That’s it. That’s all. It was in no way some sort of “religion has no place in government” ideal as you have attempted to represent here.



Oh? Is that so? I’ll try this one more time. I’m going to repeat a question you completely avoided last time: What was the Founders’ view of civil law vis-à-vis Divine Law?

Your claim that the Founders were arguing over which religous institutions would get aid and which would not is absurd. FALSE AND A BOGUS FRAUD ARGUMENT.
They declared NO religous institution would get ANY aid and you know it.
Your entire post is full of opinion and no fact.
Show me where GOD is in the Constitution and where government can give legal aid to any religous institution.
James Madison STATED AT THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION:
"Religion itself may become a motive to PERSECUTION AND OPPRESSION"
Read it and weep. The Founders SPOKE PUBLICLY they wanted NO PART of any religion anywhere in government.
Madison led the charge THAT NO TAX be passed, as your buddies tried that, to aid ANY RELIGOUS EFFORTS, and he prevailed. Founders sure were smart, weren't they?
First draft by Madison was the State of New Hampshire's Constitution wording on religion:
"Congress shall MAKE NO LAWS TOUCHING ON RELIGION."

Another retard who doesn't know what "founded" means and apparently confuses it with "law".
Who also doesn't understand that adhering to Christian tenets does not mean establishing a theocracy.

It's impossible to argue with intellectually backwards people.

The founding fathers were the enlightened ones of this country. They were part of a movement called the "Age of Enlightenment". Age of Enlightenment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This movement goes against religious doctrine. It is also called the "Age of Reason".

 

[bodecea]

When it comes to our Founders, it is important to remember that Actions Speak Louder Than Words.

 

[Dot Com]

The founding documents were indeed influenced by the enlightenment & > a few of the drafters/ Framers were Deist's as opposed to Christians. This doesn't discount the contributions made by the early settlers of whom many were Christians of one sort or another.

 

[AllieBaba]

Your claim that the Founders were arguing over which religous institutions would get aid and which would not is absurd. FALSE AND A BOGUS FRAUD ARGUMENT.
They declared NO religous institution would get ANY aid and you know it.
Your entire post is full of opinion and no fact.
Show me where GOD is in the Constitution and where government can give legal aid to any religous institution.
James Madison STATED AT THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION:
"Religion itself may become a motive to PERSECUTION AND OPPRESSION"
Read it and weep. The Founders SPOKE PUBLICLY they wanted NO PART of any religion anywhere in government.
Madison led the charge THAT NO TAX be passed, as your buddies tried that, to aid ANY RELIGOUS EFFORTS, and he prevailed. Founders sure were smart, weren't they?
First draft by Madison was the State of New Hampshire's Constitution wording on religion:
"Congress shall MAKE NO LAWS TOUCHING ON RELIGION."

Another retard who doesn't know what "founded" means and apparently confuses it with "law".
Who also doesn't understand that adhering to Christian tenets does not mean establishing a theocracy.

It's impossible to argue with intellectually backwards people.

The founding fathers were the enlightened ones of this country. They were part of a movement called the "Age of Enlightenment". Age of Enlightenment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This movement goes against religious doctrine. It is also called the "Age of Reason".

Another retard who cannot discern the difference between a Christian foundation and a theocracy.

 

[AllieBaba]

For the millionth time:

The founding fathers stated, repeatedly, that they were founding a country upon Christian principle. If you want to argue against that then you must prove that they were intentionally misleading everybody in their circles, and you must find a way to discredit the Declaration of Independence and deny it is a founding document.

 

[Dot Com]

For the millionth time:

The founding fathers stated, repeatedly, that they were founding a country upon Christian principle. If you want to argue against that then you must prove that they were intentionally misleading everybody in their circles, and you must find a way to discredit the Declaration of Independence and deny it is a founding document.

I love you like a sister ;-) BUT where R U getting that info? Look at my above post. There's a diff between the 'Founders/initial settlers' and the 'Framers'. Also, the Declaration of Independence is intentionally non-sectarian. See- "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them". Have you ever heard of a "Deist"?
Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deism in the United States

In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters, and the principle of religious freedom expressed in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.
Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include James Madison, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen,[41] and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout America and Europe).

 

[AllieBaba]

Irrelevant.

 

[Dot Com]

Irrelevant.

Do you know what was unusual about Thomas Jefferson's personal Bible? The guy who drafted and wrote the Declaration of Independence? I'm going to have to start charging you for giving you these mini-classes

 

[JScott]

irrelevant.

k.

 

[Foxfyre]

For the millionth time:

The founding fathers stated, repeatedly, that they were founding a country upon Christian principle. If you want to argue against that then you must prove that they were intentionally misleading everybody in their circles, and you must find a way to discredit the Declaration of Independence and deny it is a founding document.

I love you like a sister ;-) BUT where R U getting that info? Look at my above post. There's a diff between the 'Founders/initial settlers' and the 'Framers'. Also, the Declaration of Independence is intentionally non-sectarian. See- "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them". Have you ever heard of a "Deist"?
Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deism in the United States

In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters, and the principle of religious freedom expressed in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.
Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include James Madison, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen,[41] and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout America and Europe).

For purposes of clarification, the Framers of the Constitution have been referred to as the Founding Fathers for more than two hundred years now. When I or any of our members uses the term "Founders" we are referring to those men who signed onto the Declaration of Independence, saw the country through a five-year bloody war with England in order to gain our freedom, and then spent the next seven years hammering out a Constitution that would make us the most free, most prosperous, most innovative, most productive nation that world had ever known.

Founders in the context of this thread is an abbreviation of "Founding Fathers" and means those men of the Declaration and Constitution and not the first settlers who were British citizens and not yet Americans.

Atheists have long tried to make a case that Christian influence was not that much a factor in the founding of this nation by pointing to the Founders who were Deists. The writings we have of those amazing men, however, simply don't reflect any point of view other than a Christian one:

"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."--George Washington
--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."--John Adams
--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever. . . .--Thomas Jefferson
--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."--John Hancock
--History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.

"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.

That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see;. . . .

--Benjamin Franklin wrote this in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University on March 9, 1790.

"When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgments for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good."--John Monroe
--Monroe made this statement in his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818.


"The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time.
--Life of John Quincy Adams, p. 248


"The gospel of Jesus Christ prescribes the wisest rules for just conduct in every situation of life. Happy they who are enabled to obey them in all situations!"
--The Autobiography of Benjamin Rush, pp. 165-166.

There are lots and lots and lots more.

 

[TheBrain]

Irrelevant.

Do you know what was unusual about Thomas Jefferson's personal Bible? The guy who drafted and wrote the Declaration of Independence? I'm going to have to start charging you for giving you these mini-classes

Yes, he removed the portions which contained supernatural events, from the New Testament anyway.

All that tells us is that he didn't believe in those portions of the Bible. He certainly believed in the principles that Christ taught though, and he certainly advocated basing our legal system off the existing Judeo/Christian system, otherwise known as English Common Law.

 

[TheBrain]

For the millionth time:

The founding fathers stated, repeatedly, that they were founding a country upon Christian principle. If you want to argue against that then you must prove that they were intentionally misleading everybody in their circles, and you must find a way to discredit the Declaration of Independence and deny it is a founding document.

I love you like a sister ;-) BUT where R U getting that info? Look at my above post. There's a diff between the 'Founders/initial settlers' and the 'Framers'. Also, the Declaration of Independence is intentionally non-sectarian. See- "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them". Have you ever heard of a "Deist"?
Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For purposes of clarification, the Framers of the Constitution have been referred to as the Founding Fathers for more than two hundred years now. When I or any of our members uses the term "Founders" we are referring to those men who signed onto the Declaration of Independence, saw the country through a five-year bloody war with England in order to gain our freedom, and then spent the next seven years hammering out a Constitution that would make us the most free, most prosperous, most innovative, most productive nation that world had ever known.

Founders in the context of this thread is an abbreviation of "Founding Fathers" and means those men of the Declaration and Constitution and not the first settlers who were British citizens and not yet Americans.

Atheists have long tried to make a case that Christian influence was not that much a factor in the founding of this nation by pointing to the Founders who were Deists. The writings we have of those amazing men, however, simply don't reflect any point of view other than a Christian one:

"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."--George Washington
--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."--John Adams
--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever. . . .--Thomas Jefferson
--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."--John Hancock
--History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.

"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.

That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see;. . . .

--Benjamin Franklin wrote this in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University on March 9, 1790.

"When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgments for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good."--John Monroe
--Monroe made this statement in his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818.


"The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time.
--Life of John Quincy Adams, p. 248


"The gospel of Jesus Christ prescribes the wisest rules for just conduct in every situation of life. Happy they who are enabled to obey them in all situations!"
--The Autobiography of Benjamin Rush, pp. 165-166.

There are lots and lots and lots more.

what some try to hide is that even the deitists among the founders acknowledged that the principles of Christianity were preferable for the basis of a new nation, and that their was literally NO conflict over this point.

 

[AllieBaba]

When it comes to our Founders, it is important to remember that Actions Speak Louder Than Words.

Is this your cowardly way of attempting to say they embarked upon a huge conspiracy to PRETEND their intent was to found the country on Christian principle, when really they were evil heathens?

I suspect so because even you must realize how pathetically ignorant you would sound if you actually said that.

 

[AllieBaba]

Irrelevant.

Do you know what was unusual about Thomas Jefferson's personal Bible? The guy who drafted and wrote the Declaration of Independence? I'm going to have to start charging you for giving you these mini-classes

His personal beliefs have nothing to do with anything. The irrefutable fact of the matter is that the founding fathers, including Jefferson, said repeatedly they were founding a country upon Christian principle.

There's no argument. Whether he was Deist, or Christian, or Buddhist has no bearing upon this particular argument.

 

[TheBrain]

When it comes to our Founders, it is important to remember that Actions Speak Louder Than Words.

Is this your cowardly way of attempting to say they embarked upon a huge conspiracy to PRETEND their intent was to found the country on Christian principle, when really they were evil heathens?

I suspect so because even you must realize how pathetically ignorant you would sound if you actually said that.

That's EXACTLY what it is. She would have us believe that one document which claimed we weren't founded on Christian Principles (and that isn't even what is says) speaks the truth , while thousands of other documents which read that we were founded on Christian principles were lies.

She is a filthy, disgusting, lying troll. Completely incapable of honest discourse.

 

[bodecea]

When it comes to our Founders, it is important to remember that Actions Speak Louder Than Words.

Is this your cowardly way of attempting to say they embarked upon a huge conspiracy to PRETEND their intent was to found the country on Christian principle, when really they were evil heathens?

I suspect so because even you must realize how pathetically ignorant you would sound if you actually said that.

How sad that you do not believe that Actions Speak Louder Than Words.

 

[AllieBaba]

How sad your stance is so stupid you won't state it.

 

[bodecea]

How sad your stance is so stupid you won't state it.

Again, you choose to call me rude names when ALL I say is that Actions Speak Louder Than Words. Why does that scare you so?

 

[TheBrain]

How sad your stance is so stupid you won't state it.

Again, you choose to call me rude names when ALL I say is that Actions Speak Louder Than Words. Why does that scare you so?

Actions do speak louder than words. That's how we all know you're a filthy, disgusting, lying troll no matter how much you deny it. Your actions prove it.