The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Gadawg73]

Why was it that in the Puritan Christian society one was whipped, fined, banished and even IMPRISONED for not doing things the Puritan way? And how come when many of those same Christian mores were carried over into many of the other colonies THEY ENDED with the US Constitution?
Why were those Christian principles ended? How come they were not used to "found the nation"?
My ancestors arrived here in the 1650s, Harold Walker and Jacob Terhune as Quakers. The Anglicans were already established in most of the colonies and were heavily persecuted by the Puritans.
But religous diversity quickly appeared and became a dominant part of colonial life. MANY religous denominations appeared. ALL wanted a part in the politics of their towns and the colonies. That is the way IT USED to work.
Now, Colonial law WAS not based on the old English monarchial law of land ownership. Colonial law WAS based on religous belief instead. No aristocratic social order existed as none of the folks in the early colonies had a fancy social order.
The Constitution ended that. The religous titles of "My Lord" and such are no where to be found in our laws and no reference to religion in any way.
For a reason.

1650 is a long way from 1776.

That is exactly my point. Thank you. The Founders and The Constitution ended religous influences in the government decision making and the laws.
Society was and is influenced by Christianity. The nation was founded on LAW, not religon.
The nation goes to church and is Christian predominantly.
If the nation was not founded on the law then why did they have The Continental Convention.
To have tea, say prayers and give speeches about God?

 

[Uncensored2008]

i'm crushed.

No, you're retarded.

Seriously...

Now wipe your chin, you're drooling again!

 

[AllieBaba]

Why was it that in the Puritan Christian society one was whipped, fined, banished and even IMPRISONED for not doing things the Puritan way? And how come when many of those same Christian mores were carried over into many of the other colonies THEY ENDED with the US Constitution?
Why were those Christian principles ended? How come they were not used to "found the nation"?
My ancestors arrived here in the 1650s, Harold Walker and Jacob Terhune as Quakers. The Anglicans were already established in most of the colonies and were heavily persecuted by the Puritans.
But religous diversity quickly appeared and became a dominant part of colonial life. MANY religous denominations appeared. ALL wanted a part in the politics of their towns and the colonies. That is the way IT USED to work.
Now, Colonial law WAS not based on the old English monarchial law of land ownership. Colonial law WAS based on religous belief instead. No aristocratic social order existed as none of the folks in the early colonies had a fancy social order.
The Constitution ended that. The religous titles of "My Lord" and such are no where to be found in our laws and no reference to religion in any way.
For a reason.

1650 is a long way from 1776.

That is exactly my point. Thank you. The Founders and The Constitution ended religous influences in the government decision making and the laws.
Society was and is influenced by Christianity. The nation was founded on LAW, not religon.
The nation goes to church and is Christian predominantly.
If the nation was not founded on the law then why did they have The Continental Convention.
To have tea, say prayers and give speeches about God?

"
John Adams: “The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

John Quincy Adams:

“Is it not, in the chain of human events, the birth day of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birth day of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.”

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Why was it that in the Puritan Christian society one was whipped, fined, banished and even IMPRISONED for not doing things the Puritan way? And how come when many of those same Christian mores were carried over into many of the other colonies THEY ENDED with the US Constitution?
Why were those Christian principles ended? How come they were not used to "found the nation"?
My ancestors arrived here in the 1650s, Harold Walker and Jacob Terhune as Quakers. The Anglicans were already established in most of the colonies and were heavily persecuted by the Puritans.
But religous diversity quickly appeared and became a dominant part of colonial life. MANY religous denominations appeared. ALL wanted a part in the politics of their towns and the colonies. That is the way IT USED to work.
Now, Colonial law WAS not based on the old English monarchial law of land ownership. Colonial law WAS based on religous belief instead. No aristocratic social order existed as none of the folks in the early colonies had a fancy social order.
The Constitution ended that. The religous titles of "My Lord" and such are no where to be found in our laws and no reference to religion in any way.
For a reason.

1650 is a long way from 1776.

That is exactly my point. Thank you. The Founders and The Constitution ended religous influences in the government decision making and the laws.
Society was and is influenced by Christianity. The nation was founded on LAW, not religon.
The nation goes to church and is Christian predominantly.
If the nation was not founded on the law then why did they have The Continental Convention.
To have tea, say prayers and give speeches about God?

What laws gave us the bill of rights?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Why was it that in the Puritan Christian society one was whipped, fined, banished and even IMPRISONED for not doing things the Puritan way? And how come when many of those same Christian mores were carried over into many of the other colonies THEY ENDED with the US Constitution?

And here is where you trip up:

Massachusetts levied a religious tax for the support of churches until 1807. Clearly the the practices you speak of did NOT end with the U.S. Constitution.

Connecticut funded the Congregationalist church with tax monies until 1818.

You see, prior to the civil war, the Federal Government was viewed as a separate and distinct body from the states, not as an overarching empire that dictated what the states would do.

 

[TheBrain]

Do you know what a principle is? Because if you did, you wouldn't ask that question.

Principles, much like integrity, honesty, and intelligence, is something Bode will never have any experience of or understanding of.

 

[Gadawg73]

1650 is a long way from 1776.

That is exactly my point. Thank you. The Founders and The Constitution ended religous influences in the government decision making and the laws.
Society was and is influenced by Christianity. The nation was founded on LAW, not religon.
The nation goes to church and is Christian predominantly.
If the nation was not founded on the law then why did they have The Continental Convention.
To have tea, say prayers and give speeches about God?

What laws gave us the bill of rights?

Bill of Rights were authored by James Madison and he relied on The Virginia Declaration of Rights as his model:
"That ALL POWER, be vested in and consequently derived from, THE PEOPLE, that MAGISTRATES are their trustees and servants to them at ALL TIMES amendable to them."
Men, not religion, write the laws and men, not religion, enforce the law.
Section 16, the last Section, was not used in any Constituional way.
They ended that way of doing business with the Constitution.

 

[Gadawg73]

Why was it that in the Puritan Christian society one was whipped, fined, banished and even IMPRISONED for not doing things the Puritan way? And how come when many of those same Christian mores were carried over into many of the other colonies THEY ENDED with the US Constitution?

And here is where you trip up:

Massachusetts levied a religious tax for the support of churches until 1807. Clearly the the practices you speak of did NOT end with the U.S. Constitution.

Connecticut funded the Congregationalist church with tax monies until 1818.

You see, prior to the civil war, the Federal Government was viewed as a separate and distinct body from the states, not as an overarching empire that dictated what the states would do.

You prove my point once again.
The nation is not just ONE STATE.
Guess why the religous tax was ended?
Now you know that everyone else denies there were religous taxes of any kind.
Glad you pointed out that fact.

 

[Gadawg73]

Why was it that in the Puritan Christian society one was whipped, fined, banished and even IMPRISONED for not doing things the Puritan way? And how come when many of those same Christian mores were carried over into many of the other colonies THEY ENDED with the US Constitution?

And here is where you trip up:

Massachusetts levied a religious tax for the support of churches until 1807. Clearly the the practices you speak of did NOT end with the U.S. Constitution.

Connecticut funded the Congregationalist church with tax monies until 1818.

You see, prior to the civil war, the Federal Government was viewed as a separate and distinct body from the states, not as an overarching empire that dictated what the states would do.

Dude, hate to tell you but the civil war was 55 years after the Mass. religous tax so how does your seperate body civil war argument hold any water?

 

[AllieBaba]

That is exactly my point. Thank you. The Founders and The Constitution ended religous influences in the government decision making and the laws.
Society was and is influenced by Christianity. The nation was founded on LAW, not religon.
The nation goes to church and is Christian predominantly.
If the nation was not founded on the law then why did they have The Continental Convention.
To have tea, say prayers and give speeches about God?

What laws gave us the bill of rights?

Bill of Rights were authored by James Madison and he relied on The Virginia Declaration of Rights as his model:
"That ALL POWER, be vested in and consequently derived from, THE PEOPLE, that MAGISTRATES are their trustees and servants to them at ALL TIMES amendable to them."
Men, not religion, write the laws and men, not religion, enforce the law.
Section 16, the last Section, was not used in any Constituional way.
They ended that way of doing business with the Constitution.

And what did they base that upon?

Christian principle. Free will....

At least, that's what THEY said.

 

[TheBrain]

That is exactly my point. Thank you. The Founders and The Constitution ended religous influences in the government decision making and the laws.
Society was and is influenced by Christianity. The nation was founded on LAW, not religon.
The nation goes to church and is Christian predominantly.
If the nation was not founded on the law then why did they have The Continental Convention.
To have tea, say prayers and give speeches about God?

What laws gave us the bill of rights?

Bill of Rights were authored by James Madison and he relied on The Virginia Declaration of Rights as his model:
"That ALL POWER, be vested in and consequently derived from, THE PEOPLE, that MAGISTRATES are their trustees and servants to them at ALL TIMES amendable to them."
Men, not religion, write the laws and men, not religion, enforce the law.
Section 16, the last Section, was not used in any Constituional way.
They ended that way of doing business with the Constitution.

If you want to get all technical and stuff. The COTUS didn't have ANYTHING to do with the founding of this nation. It was and is merely a framework of our legal structure.

Prnciples are not something that are found on paper. They are what is found in a man's heart. Faith, Hope, Charity (God I sound like Glen Beck, please forgive me.) This is what our nation was founded on. The COTUS is merely a codification of the laws we expect our GOVERNMENT to abide by. Of course it doesn't mention God, because it has nothing to do with God. It has to do with The People and their relationship to government.

The only questions really are

1. Do you agree that faith, hope, and charity were and are the three major pillars of our country.

I would say that without question they are. Sure we can be nasty, stupid, vile people, but deep down Americans are known for coming to the aid of those who need it, the very definition of charity. Deep down we all have hope that tomorrow's world will be better than today's. The very definition of hope. Deep down, we all believe in something. Even those who don't believe in any god of any sort still believe in something (except for a few true whack jobs) The very definition of faith.

question number 2

Do you agree that faith , hope, and charity are the bedrock of Christianity? Now that's not saying Christians are perfect and always act accordingly, but the Bible is clear that we are to be faithful, charitable, and hopeful and that is how most of us live our lives. The fact that we are humans and often fuck up doesn't change the underlying facts.

And with that, I am done with this thread, and encourage everyone who believes as I do to bail on it and let those who deny simple facts wallow in their denial.

Have a great day.

 

[bodecea]

Do you know what a principle is? Because if you did, you wouldn't ask that question.

Principles, much like integrity, honesty, and intelligence, is something Bode will never have any experience of or understanding of.

And here you are again, making this about personally attacking me. You can't stop....

 

[Lonestar_logic]

That is exactly my point. Thank you. The Founders and The Constitution ended religous influences in the government decision making and the laws.
Society was and is influenced by Christianity. The nation was founded on LAW, not religon.
The nation goes to church and is Christian predominantly.
If the nation was not founded on the law then why did they have The Continental Convention.
To have tea, say prayers and give speeches about God?

What laws gave us the bill of rights?

Bill of Rights were authored by James Madison and he relied on The Virginia Declaration of Rights as his model:
"That ALL POWER, be vested in and consequently derived from, THE PEOPLE, that MAGISTRATES are their trustees and servants to them at ALL TIMES amendable to them."
Men, not religion, write the laws and men, not religion, enforce the law.
Section 16, the last Section, was not used in any Constituional way.
They ended that way of doing business with the Constitution.

So these rights just came out of thin air when the Virginia Declaration of Rights was written.

Section 16 states.

That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.

 

[AllieBaba]

i'm crushed.

No, you're retarded.

Seriously...

Now wipe your chin, you're drooling again!

And flailing, too!

 

[bodecea]

What laws gave us the bill of rights?

Bill of Rights were authored by James Madison and he relied on The Virginia Declaration of Rights as his model:
"That ALL POWER, be vested in and consequently derived from, THE PEOPLE, that MAGISTRATES are their trustees and servants to them at ALL TIMES amendable to them."
Men, not religion, write the laws and men, not religion, enforce the law.
Section 16, the last Section, was not used in any Constituional way.
They ended that way of doing business with the Constitution.

And what did they base that upon?

Christian principle. Free will....

At least, that's what THEY said.

Fill this in:

Christian tenet First Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Second Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Third Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Fourth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Fifth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Sixth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Seventh Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Eighth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Ninth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Tenth Amendment based on:

 

[AllieBaba]

Uh, no.

The assertation that the tenets must be written in the law is your false premise, not mine.

 

[AllieBaba]

Again, it's a matter of you not understanding, or ignoring, the concept of "found". You seem to equate it with "law". They are not synonyms.

 

[bodecea]

Bill of Rights were authored by James Madison and he relied on The Virginia Declaration of Rights as his model:
"That ALL POWER, be vested in and consequently derived from, THE PEOPLE, that MAGISTRATES are their trustees and servants to them at ALL TIMES amendable to them."
Men, not religion, write the laws and men, not religion, enforce the law.
Section 16, the last Section, was not used in any Constituional way.
They ended that way of doing business with the Constitution.

And what did they base that upon?

Christian principle. Free will....

At least, that's what THEY said.

Fill this in:

Christian tenet First Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Second Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Third Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Fourth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Fifth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Sixth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Seventh Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Eighth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Ninth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Tenth Amendment based on:

Bump...for someone, anyone?

 

[AllieBaba]

it's irrelevant, Bod. And you and a couple other fringers with comprehension problems are the only ones who don't see it.

 

[bodecea]

And what did they base that upon?

Christian principle. Free will....

At least, that's what THEY said.

Fill this in:

Christian tenet First Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Second Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Third Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Fourth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Fifth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Sixth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Seventh Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Eighth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Ninth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Tenth Amendment based on:

Bump...for someone, anyone?

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Even one Amendment?