The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[bodecea]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.~U.S. Declaration of Independence

That is an Enlightenment Principle...where is it mentioned in Christian Canon?

Just a little history on the "all men are equal" idea...the Quakers actually practiced that and were persecuted horribly for it.

It doesn't MATTER if other philosophies share it, as has already been established. What MATTERS is that the FF stated they were adhering to CHRISTIAN principles. As I said, the debate isn't over whether or not they were GOOD Christians (or even Christian at all). They SAID they were founding the country upon Christian values. Not *enlightenment* values.

Why are you the only one who has ever heard of the *horrible* persecution of Quakers in the US btw? Quakers were extremely prosperous in the early days of the US. They built Philly and did so well that the church actually divided over it...there were those who thought they had become too worldly, I believe, and who broke away...

So, people SAY something and it is automatically true?

And I never said the U.S. persecuted Quakers...England did...the Puritans did. Why? because they believed that all men were created equal...Christianity of that time DID NOT ACCEPT that premise and they were persecuted for it. So no one here can seriously tote that "all men are created equal" was a Christian principle at that time. It most certainly was not and was strongly rejected by Christianity. (except for the Quakers)

 

[AllieBaba]

When it comes to this argument, you bet. This argument is whether or not the founding fathers founded the country upon Christian tenets.

They did. You want to argue that they weren't good Christians, you go right ahead, but that has nothing to do with this argument. In a debate class, or even a comp class, you would have gotten a big fat F for your showing.

BTW, this massive *Quaker persecution* you keep bringing up took place more than a hundred years BEFORE the declaration, and a whopping 4 people were executed.

 

[TheBrain]

So, you folks are claiming that American citizens got their rights from God?

hey bro. That is EXACTLY what the founding fathers said. That God granted us rights. The COTUS doesn't GIVE us any rights. It merely guarantees that the government won't attempt to take certain rights away.

That's as serious as I can be about that. Put all the bullshit that has been going on in this thread aside, and truly think about what I just wrote. The government can not and does not grant any rights. It can certainly violate your rights though. Our Constitution guarantees that ours won't.

I'm done arguing about the Christian principles. but this point is a matter of civics, not religion.

 

[TheBrain]

If rights come from the Christian God, where do atheists' rights come from? Muslims' rights? Hindus' rights? Pagans' rights? Buddhists' rights?...and so on....

Just because others deny the Christian God is the one and only God doesn't mean that He doesn't exist, and certainly The One God gave you your rights whether you believe in Him or not.

 

[del]

When it comes to this argument, you bet. This argument is whether or not the founding fathers founded the country upon Christian tenets.

They did. You want to argue that they weren't good Christians, you go right ahead, but that has nothing to do with this argument. In a debate class, or even a comp class, you would have gotten a big fat F for your showing.

BTW, this massive *Quaker persecution* you keep bringing up took place more than a hundred years BEFORE the declaration, and a whopping 4 people were executed.

there is nowhere in christian dogma even the slightest allusion to all men being equal.

nada, zip, zilch

 

[AllieBaba]

Besides which, that isn't the point. We aren't arguing the existence of God.

 

[bodecea]

Besides which, that isn't the point. We aren't arguing the existence of God.

You are right, we are not. We are arguing whether the Founders FOUNDED our country on Christian principles.

 

[AllieBaba]

When it comes to this argument, you bet. This argument is whether or not the founding fathers founded the country upon Christian tenets.

They did. You want to argue that they weren't good Christians, you go right ahead, but that has nothing to do with this argument. In a debate class, or even a comp class, you would have gotten a big fat F for your showing.

BTW, this massive *Quaker persecution* you keep bringing up took place more than a hundred years BEFORE the declaration, and a whopping 4 people were executed.

there is nowhere in christian dogma even the slightest allusion to all men being equal.

nada, zip, zilch

Irrelevant.

Though you are wrong, of course. But I presume you probably are using the word *equal* incorrectly.

 

[bodecea]

If rights come from the Christian God, where do atheists' rights come from? Muslims' rights? Hindus' rights? Pagans' rights? Buddhists' rights?...and so on....

Just because others deny the Christian God is the one and only God doesn't mean that He doesn't exist, and certainly The One God gave you your rights whether you believe in Him or not.

Morning there!

 

[del]

When it comes to this argument, you bet. This argument is whether or not the founding fathers founded the country upon Christian tenets.

They did. You want to argue that they weren't good Christians, you go right ahead, but that has nothing to do with this argument. In a debate class, or even a comp class, you would have gotten a big fat F for your showing.

BTW, this massive *Quaker persecution* you keep bringing up took place more than a hundred years BEFORE the declaration, and a whopping 4 people were executed.

there is nowhere in christian dogma even the slightest allusion to all men being equal.

nada, zip, zilch

Irrelevant.

Though you are wrong, of course. But I presume you probably are using the word *equal* incorrectly.

you presume a lot.

perhaps you should substitute thought for presumption.


just a thought

 

[bodecea]

When it comes to this argument, you bet. This argument is whether or not the founding fathers founded the country upon Christian tenets.

They did. You want to argue that they weren't good Christians, you go right ahead, but that has nothing to do with this argument. In a debate class, or even a comp class, you would have gotten a big fat F for your showing.

BTW, this massive *Quaker persecution* you keep bringing up took place more than a hundred years BEFORE the declaration, and a whopping 4 people were executed.

there is nowhere in christian dogma even the slightest allusion to all men being equal.

nada, zip, zilch

Irrelevant.

Though you are wrong, of course. But I presume you probably are using the word *equal* incorrectly.

That is interesting...so you disagree with the posters saying that the Christian Principles our country was founded on was that "all men are created equal"?

 

[AllieBaba]

Besides which, that isn't the point. We aren't arguing the existence of God.

You are right, we are not. We are arguing whether the Founders FOUNDED our country on Christian principles.

Wow, no shit. Where have I heard that before?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

If rights come from the Christian God, where do atheists' rights come from? Muslims' rights? Hindus' rights? Pagans' rights? Buddhists' rights?...and so on....

From God

 

[bodecea]

If rights come from the Christian God, where do atheists' rights come from? Muslims' rights? Hindus' rights? Pagans' rights? Buddhists' rights?...and so on....

From God

Which god(s)?

 

[bodecea]

Besides which, that isn't the point. We aren't arguing the existence of God.

You are right, we are not. We are arguing whether the Founders FOUNDED our country on Christian principles.

Wow, no shit. Where have I heard that before?

FOUNDED, Allie....not SAID they founded. Remember? Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

If rights come from the Christian God, where do atheists' rights come from? Muslims' rights? Hindus' rights? Pagans' rights? Buddhists' rights?...and so on....

From God

Which god(s)?

There is only one God.

 

[bodecea]

From God

Which god(s)?

There is only one God.

Sorry....your proof?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Even one Amendment?

Emperor Qin of China created the Terracotta army; clay figures to fool the Mongols into thinking that the Shaanxi province would be protected by a great force.


Now bod has created a Straw Man army of logical fallacies... But no one is fooled.

 

[AllieBaba]

So we're back to square one. I'm out of here, this is stupid.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So, you folks are claiming that American citizens got their rights from God?

I think they are claiming that you got your talking points from George Soros - who no doubt is kind of your god...