The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[AllieBaba]

Nobody claimed God was mentioned there. Why are you asking people to prove a point that was never made?

 

[Spoonman]

Bill of Rights were authored by James Madison and he relied on The Virginia Declaration of Rights as his model:
"That ALL POWER, be vested in and consequently derived from, THE PEOPLE, that MAGISTRATES are their trustees and servants to them at ALL TIMES amendable to them."
Men, not religion, write the laws and men, not religion, enforce the law.
Section 16, the last Section, was not used in any Constituional way.
They ended that way of doing business with the Constitution.

And what did they base that upon?

Christian principle. Free will....

At least, that's what THEY said.

Fill this in:

Christian tenet First Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Second Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Third Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Fourth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Fifth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Sixth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Seventh Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Eighth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Ninth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Tenth Amendment based on:

is this multiple choice and is ther any extra credit?

 

[AllieBaba]

Shit, who knows.

 

[Spoonman]

Shit, who knows.

I'm not putting in the effort unless I know there's a reward or recognition coming my way.

 

[AllieBaba]

I'm always interested to see how far someone is willing to run with a closely held belief after they know it's completely incorrect, and how far they will twist to pretend they weren't proven wrong, but the question was something else ENTIRELY....

 

[Spoonman]

I'm always interested to see how far someone is willing to run with a closely held belief after they know it's completely incorrect, and how far they will twist to pretend they weren't proven wrong, but the question was something else ENTIRELY....

186 pages and counting should give you a pretty good benchmark to work with

 

[bodecea]

And what did they base that upon?

Christian principle. Free will....

At least, that's what THEY said.

Fill this in:

Christian tenet First Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Second Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Third Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Fourth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Fifth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Sixth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Seventh Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Eighth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Ninth Amendment based on:

Christian tenet Tenth Amendment based on:

is this multiple choice and is ther any extra credit?

Well, no multiple choice...but I can rustle up some extra credit maybe. Give it a shot. Just don't stand on the sideline and just take personal shots rather than actually laying out something of substance or answering some basic questions.

 

[Gadawg73]

So, you folks are claiming that American citizens got their rights from God?

 

[Gadawg73]

What laws gave us the bill of rights?

Bill of Rights were authored by James Madison and he relied on The Virginia Declaration of Rights as his model:
"That ALL POWER, be vested in and consequently derived from, THE PEOPLE, that MAGISTRATES are their trustees and servants to them at ALL TIMES amendable to them."
Men, not religion, write the laws and men, not religion, enforce the law.
Section 16, the last Section, was not used in any Constituional way.
They ended that way of doing business with the Constitution.

If you want to get all technical and stuff. The COTUS didn't have ANYTHING to do with the founding of this nation. It was and is merely a framework of our legal structure.

Prnciples are not something that are found on paper. They are what is found in a man's heart. Faith, Hope, Charity (God I sound like Glen Beck, please forgive me.) This is what our nation was founded on. The COTUS is merely a codification of the laws we expect our GOVERNMENT to abide by. Of course it doesn't mention God, because it has nothing to do with God. It has to do with The People and their relationship to government.

The only questions really are

1. Do you agree that faith, hope, and charity were and are the three major pillars of our country.

I would say that without question they are. Sure we can be nasty, stupid, vile people, but deep down Americans are known for coming to the aid of those who need it, the very definition of charity. Deep down we all have hope that tomorrow's world will be better than today's. The very definition of hope. Deep down, we all believe in something. Even those who don't believe in any god of any sort still believe in something (except for a few true whack jobs) The very definition of faith.

question number 2

Do you agree that faith , hope, and charity are the bedrock of Christianity? Now that's not saying Christians are perfect and always act accordingly, but the Bible is clear that we are to be faithful, charitable, and hopeful and that is how most of us live our lives. The fact that we are humans and often fuck up doesn't change the underlying facts.

And with that, I am done with this thread, and encourage everyone who believes as I do to bail on it and let those who deny simple facts wallow in their denial.

Have a great day.

1. If you were in the Colonies in the 1700s, the English were coming and your sons were being held against their will by the British explain how "faith, hope and charity" are going to help you IN ANY WAY.
2. Different question of RELIGION. You got that one dead RIGHT.

 

[AllieBaba]

No, that's not the discussion.

The discussion is that it was the premise of the founding fathers, who stated they built this country upon Christian principle and that certain rights come from God and none other; and that the function of government is to protect those rights that originate from God.

We aren't arguing that there is a God, or that the founding fathers were good Christians, or that they were of any particular religion. We aren't arguing that we were founded as a theocracy, or that religion is dictated to anyone through our constitution. We are simply affirming that the country was founded and built, per the founding fathers, upon Christian tenets.

That means that the FF were guided by Christian values as they were developing the foundation of the country.

Why is it so hard for some people to stick to the topic?

 

[Gadawg73]

No, that's not the discussion.

The discussion is that it was the premise of the founding fathers, who stated they built this country upon Christian principle and that certain rights come from God and none other; and that the function of government is to protect those rights that originate from God.

We aren't arguing that there is a God, or that the founding fathers were good Christians, or that they were of any particular religion. We aren't arguing that we were founded as a theocracy, or that religion is dictated to anyone through our constitution. We are simply affirming that the country was founded and built, per the founding fathers, upon Christian tenets.

That means that the FF were guided by Christian values as they were developing the foundation of the country.

Why is it so hard for some people to stick to the topic?

Hard for you to ever be specific?
WHAT rights are you talking about when you claim "certain rights come from God and none other".
WHAT RIGHTS ARE YOUR "CERTAIN RIGHTS"
SPECIFICS.
NAME THEM.
And why did God differentiate and only grant us "certain" rights?
Which ones did he leave out and why?

 

[Gadawg73]

Allie has no specifics.
Easier to cover her tracks making off the wall shot gun generalizations with nothing ever specific.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

No, that's not the discussion.

The discussion is that it was the premise of the founding fathers, who stated they built this country upon Christian principle and that certain rights come from God and none other; and that the function of government is to protect those rights that originate from God.

We aren't arguing that there is a God, or that the founding fathers were good Christians, or that they were of any particular religion. We aren't arguing that we were founded as a theocracy, or that religion is dictated to anyone through our constitution. We are simply affirming that the country was founded and built, per the founding fathers, upon Christian tenets.

That means that the FF were guided by Christian values as they were developing the foundation of the country.

Why is it so hard for some people to stick to the topic?

Hard for you to ever be specific?
WHAT rights are you talking about when you claim "certain rights come from God and none other".
WHAT RIGHTS ARE YOUR "CERTAIN RIGHTS"
SPECIFICS.
NAME THEM.
And why did God differentiate and only grant us "certain" rights?
Which ones did he leave out and why?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.~U.S. Declaration of Independence

 

[bodecea]

Allie has no specifics.Easier to cover her tracks making off the wall shot gun generalizations with nothing ever specific.

That became evident way back when I kept giving her a list of Christian Principles to fill out.

 

[bodecea]

No, that's not the discussion.

The discussion is that it was the premise of the founding fathers, who stated they built this country upon Christian principle and that certain rights come from God and none other; and that the function of government is to protect those rights that originate from God.

We aren't arguing that there is a God, or that the founding fathers were good Christians, or that they were of any particular religion. We aren't arguing that we were founded as a theocracy, or that religion is dictated to anyone through our constitution. We are simply affirming that the country was founded and built, per the founding fathers, upon Christian tenets.

That means that the FF were guided by Christian values as they were developing the foundation of the country.

Why is it so hard for some people to stick to the topic?

Hard for you to ever be specific?
WHAT rights are you talking about when you claim "certain rights come from God and none other".
WHAT RIGHTS ARE YOUR "CERTAIN RIGHTS"
SPECIFICS.
NAME THEM.
And why did God differentiate and only grant us "certain" rights?
Which ones did he leave out and why?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.~U.S. Declaration of Independence

That is an Enlightenment Principle...where is it mentioned in Christian Canon?

Just a little history on the "all men are equal" idea...the Quakers actually practiced that and were persecuted horribly for it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Allie has no specifics.
Easier to cover her tracks making off the wall shot gun generalizations with nothing ever specific.

Do you live in opposite land? I just specifically told you, again, what the argument was, and what it wasn't.

As I keep saying, at this point it is obvious that there are certain people who have problems with language. I don't know if the problem is cognitive, if it is an issue with education, or if some people are just so fucking dishonest, they cannot accept fact once they set themselves on a particular course.

I don't need to list the principles of Christianity, btw. The Founding Fathers TOLD us what they were guided by (Christian principle). As I said, the argument isn't whether they were good Christians, or whether we are a theocracy, so which principles they specifically were guided by doesn't matter. They SAID they were guided by Christian principle. I assume primarily free will and the concept that we are granted certain rights (as listed in the declaration) by God and God alone. Which I have stated already, repeatedly. If that's too *general* for you I can't help you; you apparently are as clueless about the word *specific* as you are about the word *found*.

 

[bodecea]

If rights come from the Christian God, where do atheists' rights come from? Muslims' rights? Hindus' rights? Pagans' rights? Buddhists' rights?...and so on....

 

[Newby]

If rights come from the Christian God, where do atheists' rights come from? Muslims' rights? Hindus' rights? Pagans' rights? Buddhists' rights?...and so on....

Where would you like your rights to come from? Government? Other people? Who determines what they are?

 

[AllieBaba]

Hard for you to ever be specific?
WHAT rights are you talking about when you claim "certain rights come from God and none other".
WHAT RIGHTS ARE YOUR "CERTAIN RIGHTS"
SPECIFICS.
NAME THEM.
And why did God differentiate and only grant us "certain" rights?
Which ones did he leave out and why?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.~U.S. Declaration of Independence

That is an Enlightenment Principle...where is it mentioned in Christian Canon?

Just a little history on the "all men are equal" idea...the Quakers actually practiced that and were persecuted horribly for it.

It doesn't MATTER if other philosophies share it, as has already been established. What MATTERS is that the FF stated they were adhering to CHRISTIAN principles. As I said, the debate isn't over whether or not they were GOOD Christians (or even Christian at all). They SAID they were founding the country upon Christian values. Not *enlightenment* values.

Why are you the only one who has ever heard of the *horrible* persecution of Quakers in the US btw? Quakers were extremely prosperous in the early days of the US. They built Philly and did so well that the church actually divided over it...there were those who thought they had become too worldly, I believe, and who broke away...

 

[bodecea]

If rights come from the Christian God, where do atheists' rights come from? Muslims' rights? Hindus' rights? Pagans' rights? Buddhists' rights?...and so on....

Where would you like your rights to come from? Government? Other people? Who determines what they are?

You are born with them...they are Natural...aka Natural rights. Government does not give you your rights...that would infer they have the right to take them away whenever they feel like it.