The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Lonestar_logic]

The US government is founded on the Constitution, not the Bible.

This nation was founded on Christian principles. The nation was founded before the government was created.


1490-1492 – Columbus’ commission was given to set out to find a new world.

According to Columbus’ personal log, his purpose in seeking undiscovered worlds was to “bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the heathens. …. It was the Lord who put into my mind … that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies … I am the most unworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely … No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service.” (Columbus’ Book of Prophecies)

April 10, 1606 – The Charter for the Virginia Colony read in part:

“To the glory of His divine Majesty, in propagating of the Christian religion to such people as yet live in ignorance of the true knowledge and worship of God.”

November 3, 1620 – King James I grants the Charter of the Plymouth council.

“In the hope thereby to advance the enlargement of the Christian religion, to the glory of God Almighty.”

November 11, 1620 – The Pilgrims sign the Mayflower Compact aboard the Mayflower, in Plymouth harbor.

“For the glory of God and advancement of ye Christian faith … doe by these presents solemnly & mutually in ye presence of God and one of another, covenant & combine our selves togeather into a civill body politick.”

March 4, 1629 – The first Charter of Massachusetts read in part:

“For the directing, ruling, and disposeing of all other Matters and Thinges, whereby our said People may be soe religiously, peaceablie, and civilly governed, as their good life and orderlie Conversacon, maie wynn and incite the Natives of the Country to the Knowledg and Obedience of the onlie true God and Savior of Mankinde, and the Christian Fayth, which in our Royall Intencon, and The Adventurers free profession, is the principall Ende of the Plantacion..”

January 14, 1638 – The towns of Hartford, Weathersfield and Windsor adopt the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut.

“To mayntayne and presearve the liberty and purity of the Gospell of our Lord Jesus, which we now professe…”

August 4, 1639 – The governing body of New Hampshire is established.

“Considering with ourselves the holy will of God and our own necessity, that we should not live without wholesome laws and civil government among us, of which we are altogether destitute, do, in the name of Christ and in the sight of God, combine ourselves together to erect and set up among us such government as shall be, to our best discerning, agreeable to the will of God…”

September 26, 1642 – The rules and precepts that were to govern Harvard were set up.

“Let every Student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well, the maine end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternall life, John 17:3 and therefore to lay Christ in the bottome, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and Learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdome, Let every one seriously set himselfe by prayer in secret to seeke it of him Prov. 2.3.”

The charter of Yale University clearly expressed the purpose for which the school was founded: “Whereas several well disposed and Publick spirited Persons of their sincere Regard to & zeal for upholding & propagating of the Christian Protestant Religion … youth may be instructed in the Arts & Sciences who through the blessing of Almighty God may be fitted for Publick employment both in Church & Civil State.”

In addition to Harvard and Yale, 106 out of the first 108 schools in America were founded on the Christian faith.

April 3, 1644 – The New Haven Colony adopts their charter.

“That the judicial laws of God, as they were delivered by Moses … be a rule to all the courts in this jurisdiction …”

1647 – Governor William Bradford publishes Of Plimouth Plantation.

“Lastly, (and which was not least,) a great hope and inward zeall they (the Pilgrims) had of laying some good foundation, or at least to make some way thereunto, for ye propagation and advancing of ye gospell or ye kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of ye world; yea, though they should be but stepping-stones unto others for ye performing of so great a work … their desires were set on ye ways of God, and to employ his ordinances; but they rested on his providence, and know whom they had beleeved.”

April 21, 1649 – The Maryland Toleration Act is passed.

“Be it therefor … enacted … that no person or persons whatsoever within this province … professing to believe in Jesus Christ shall … henceforth be any ways troubled, molested (or disapproved of) … in respect of his or her religion nor in the free exercise thereof …”

April 25, 1689 – The Great Law of Pennsylvania is passed.

“Whereas the glory of Almighty God and the good of mankind is the reason and the end of government … therefore government itself is a venerable ordinance of God …”

May 20, 1775 – North Carolina passes the Mecklenburg County Resolutions.

“We hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of a right ought to be, a sovereign and self-governing association, under control of no other power than that of our God and the general government of Congress.”

Summer 12, 1775 – Continental Congress issues a call to all citizens to fast and pray and confess their sin that the Lord might bless the land.

“And it is recommended to Christians of all denominations, to assemble for public worship, and to abstain from servile labor and recreation on said day.”

Summer 2-4, 1776 – Declaration of Independence written and signed.

“We hold these truths … that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights … appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world … And for the support of this Declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence…”

As the Declaration was being signed, Samuel Adams said: “We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let his kingdom come.”

On the same day, Benjamin Franklin suggested that the national motto be: “Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.”

Historian and philosopher G.K. Chesterton said of the founding of America that it is “the only nation in the world that is founded on a creed. That creed is set forth in dogmatic and even theological lucidity in the Declaration of Independence.”

September 17, 1787 – The Constitution of the United States is finished.

At least 50 out of the 55 men who framed the Constitution of the United States were professing Christians. (M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company, Plymouth Rock Foundation., 1982).

Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office.

The Constitution of each of the 50 States acknowledges and calls upon the Providence of God for the blessings of freedom.

1787 – James Madison, the “architect” of the federal Constitution and fourth president:

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future .. upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

April 30, 1789 – Washington gives his First Inaugural Address.

“My fervent supplications to that Almighty Being Who rules over the universe, Who presides in the council of nations, and Whose providential aid can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a government instituted by Himself for these essential purposes.”

March 11, 1792 – President George Washington:

“I am sure that never was a people who had more reason to acknowledge a Divine interposition in their affairs than those of the United States; and I should be pained to believe that they have forgotten that agency which so often manifested in the Revolution.”

December 20, 1820 – Daniel Webster, Plymouth Massachusetts:

“Let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers brought hither their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate … and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political and literary.”

July 4, 1821 – John Quincy Adams:

“The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. From the day of the Declaration … they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledged as the rules of their conduct.”

1833 – Noah Webster:

“The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and his apostles … This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions and government … the moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws.”

1841 – Alexis de Tocqueville (Democracy in America):

“In the United States of America the sovereign authority is religious … there is no other country in the world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America.”

Summer 8, 1845 – President Andrew Jackson asserts:

“The Bible is the rock upon which our Republic rests.”

February 11, 1861 – Abraham Lincoln, farewell at Springfield, Illinois:

“Unless the great God who assisted (Washington) shall be with me and aid me, I must fail; but if the same Omniscient Mind and Mighty Arm that directed and protected him shall guide and support me, I shall not fail … Let us all pray that the God of our fathers may not forsake us now.”

Lincoln on the Bible:

“In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it, we would not know right from wrong. All things most desireable for man’s welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.” (George L. Hunt, Calvinism and the Political Order, Westminster Press, 1965, p.33)

1884 – U.S. Supreme Court reiterates the Declaration’s reference to our rights as being God-given.

These inherent rights have never been more happily expressed than in the Declaration of Independence, “we hold these truths to be self-evident” that is, so plain that their truth is recognized upon their mere statement “that all men are endowed” – not by edicts of emperors, or by decrees of parliament, or acts of Congress, but “by their Creator with certain inalienable rights and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and to secure these” – not grant them but secure them “governments are instituted among men.”

1891 – The U.S. Supreme Court restates that America is a “Christian Nation.”

“Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian … this is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation … we find everywhere a clear definition of the same truth … this is a Christian nation.” (Church of the Holy Trinity vs. United States, 143 US 457, 36 L ed 226, Justice Brewer)

1909 – President Theodore Roosevelt:

“After a week on perplexing problems … it does so rest my soul to come into the house of The Lord and to sing and mean it, ‘Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty’ … (my) great joy and glory that in occupying an exalted position in the nation, I am enabled, to preach the practical moralities of the Bible to my fellow-countrymen and to hold up Christ as the hope and Savior of the world.” (Ferdinand C. Iglehart, Theodore Roosevelt – The Man As I knew Him, A.L. Burt, 1919)

1913 – President Woodrow Wilson:

“America was born to exemplify the devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the Holy Scriptures.”

1952 – US Supreme Court defines the “Separation of Church and State.”

“We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being … No Constitutional requirement makes it necessary for government to be hostile to religion and to throw its weight against the efforts to widen the scope of religious influence. The government must remain neutral when it comes to competition between sects … The First Amendment, however, does not say that in every respect there shall be a separation of Church and State.”

January 20, 1977 – President Jimmy Carter:

“Here before me is the Bible used in the inauguration of our first President in 1789, and I have just taken the oath of office on the Bible my mother gave me just a few years ago, opened to the timeless admonition from the ancient prophet Micah: ‘He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God’” (Micah 6:2).

1980 – President Ronald Reagan:

“The time has come to turn to God and reassert our trust in Him for the Healing of America … our country is in need of and ready for a spiritual renewal.”

May 3, 1990 – President George Bush proclaims National Day of Prayer.

“The great faith that led our Nation’s Founding Fathers to pursue this bold experience in self-government has sustained us in uncertain and perilous times; it has given us strength to this very day. Like them, we do very well to recall our ‘firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,’ to give thanks for the freedom and prosperity this nation enjoys, and to pray for continued help and guidance from our wise and loving Creator.”

Don't see any princinples of any kind in any of that Lonestar. Sorry.
Christian principles are not "I believe in God". "God gives us strength". All political rhetoric.
Sorry, the subject is nation not founded on Christian principles Lonestar.
Your cut and paste job suggests Bush and Reagan were Founders.
Try something a little more original next time. You know, something YOU came up with, not a cut and paste.

Hey stupid, I simply showed a history of how God has been the cornerstone of this nation. If you are too stupid to know what "Christian principles" are, then I can't help you.


Fact is you stupid puke, this nation was founded on Christian principles by men of faith. If you wish to ignore the overwhelming evidence that proves it then go ahead and stay ignorant your entire miserable life.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

 

[Gadawg73]

What amazes me about you LoneStar is your excellent on point posts in support of 2nd Amendment and gun rights and fiscal issues that I agree with you on point 100% that are supported by you with the LAW AND CONSTITUTION which you cite, yet in this argument you make claims without any LAW OR CONSTITUTION to back any of it up. You ain't stupid. However, you have no specific principles to cite in this argument and never make them.
Oh well, at least we agree on something.

 

[bodecea]

This nation was founded on Christian principles. The nation was founded before the government was created.


1490-1492 – Columbus’ commission was given to set out to find a new world.

According to Columbus’ personal log, his purpose in seeking undiscovered worlds was to “bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the heathens. …. It was the Lord who put into my mind … that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies … I am the most unworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely … No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service.” (Columbus’ Book of Prophecies)

April 10, 1606 – The Charter for the Virginia Colony read in part:

“To the glory of His divine Majesty, in propagating of the Christian religion to such people as yet live in ignorance of the true knowledge and worship of God.”

November 3, 1620 – King James I grants the Charter of the Plymouth council.

“In the hope thereby to advance the enlargement of the Christian religion, to the glory of God Almighty.”

November 11, 1620 – The Pilgrims sign the Mayflower Compact aboard the Mayflower, in Plymouth harbor.

“For the glory of God and advancement of ye Christian faith … doe by these presents solemnly & mutually in ye presence of God and one of another, covenant & combine our selves togeather into a civill body politick.”

March 4, 1629 – The first Charter of Massachusetts read in part:

“For the directing, ruling, and disposeing of all other Matters and Thinges, whereby our said People may be soe religiously, peaceablie, and civilly governed, as their good life and orderlie Conversacon, maie wynn and incite the Natives of the Country to the Knowledg and Obedience of the onlie true God and Savior of Mankinde, and the Christian Fayth, which in our Royall Intencon, and The Adventurers free profession, is the principall Ende of the Plantacion..”

January 14, 1638 – The towns of Hartford, Weathersfield and Windsor adopt the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut.

“To mayntayne and presearve the liberty and purity of the Gospell of our Lord Jesus, which we now professe…”

August 4, 1639 – The governing body of New Hampshire is established.

“Considering with ourselves the holy will of God and our own necessity, that we should not live without wholesome laws and civil government among us, of which we are altogether destitute, do, in the name of Christ and in the sight of God, combine ourselves together to erect and set up among us such government as shall be, to our best discerning, agreeable to the will of God…”

September 26, 1642 – The rules and precepts that were to govern Harvard were set up.

“Let every Student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well, the maine end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternall life, John 17:3 and therefore to lay Christ in the bottome, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and Learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdome, Let every one seriously set himselfe by prayer in secret to seeke it of him Prov. 2.3.”

The charter of Yale University clearly expressed the purpose for which the school was founded: “Whereas several well disposed and Publick spirited Persons of their sincere Regard to & zeal for upholding & propagating of the Christian Protestant Religion … youth may be instructed in the Arts & Sciences who through the blessing of Almighty God may be fitted for Publick employment both in Church & Civil State.”

In addition to Harvard and Yale, 106 out of the first 108 schools in America were founded on the Christian faith.

April 3, 1644 – The New Haven Colony adopts their charter.

“That the judicial laws of God, as they were delivered by Moses … be a rule to all the courts in this jurisdiction …”

1647 – Governor William Bradford publishes Of Plimouth Plantation.

“Lastly, (and which was not least,) a great hope and inward zeall they (the Pilgrims) had of laying some good foundation, or at least to make some way thereunto, for ye propagation and advancing of ye gospell or ye kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of ye world; yea, though they should be but stepping-stones unto others for ye performing of so great a work … their desires were set on ye ways of God, and to employ his ordinances; but they rested on his providence, and know whom they had beleeved.”

April 21, 1649 – The Maryland Toleration Act is passed.

“Be it therefor … enacted … that no person or persons whatsoever within this province … professing to believe in Jesus Christ shall … henceforth be any ways troubled, molested (or disapproved of) … in respect of his or her religion nor in the free exercise thereof …”

April 25, 1689 – The Great Law of Pennsylvania is passed.

“Whereas the glory of Almighty God and the good of mankind is the reason and the end of government … therefore government itself is a venerable ordinance of God …”

May 20, 1775 – North Carolina passes the Mecklenburg County Resolutions.

“We hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of a right ought to be, a sovereign and self-governing association, under control of no other power than that of our God and the general government of Congress.”

Summer 12, 1775 – Continental Congress issues a call to all citizens to fast and pray and confess their sin that the Lord might bless the land.

“And it is recommended to Christians of all denominations, to assemble for public worship, and to abstain from servile labor and recreation on said day.”

Summer 2-4, 1776 – Declaration of Independence written and signed.

“We hold these truths … that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights … appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world … And for the support of this Declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence…”

As the Declaration was being signed, Samuel Adams said: “We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let his kingdom come.”

On the same day, Benjamin Franklin suggested that the national motto be: “Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.”

Historian and philosopher G.K. Chesterton said of the founding of America that it is “the only nation in the world that is founded on a creed. That creed is set forth in dogmatic and even theological lucidity in the Declaration of Independence.”

September 17, 1787 – The Constitution of the United States is finished.

At least 50 out of the 55 men who framed the Constitution of the United States were professing Christians. (M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company, Plymouth Rock Foundation., 1982).

Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office.

The Constitution of each of the 50 States acknowledges and calls upon the Providence of God for the blessings of freedom.

1787 – James Madison, the “architect” of the federal Constitution and fourth president:

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future .. upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

April 30, 1789 – Washington gives his First Inaugural Address.

“My fervent supplications to that Almighty Being Who rules over the universe, Who presides in the council of nations, and Whose providential aid can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a government instituted by Himself for these essential purposes.”

March 11, 1792 – President George Washington:

“I am sure that never was a people who had more reason to acknowledge a Divine interposition in their affairs than those of the United States; and I should be pained to believe that they have forgotten that agency which so often manifested in the Revolution.”

December 20, 1820 – Daniel Webster, Plymouth Massachusetts:

“Let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers brought hither their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate … and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political and literary.”

July 4, 1821 – John Quincy Adams:

“The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. From the day of the Declaration … they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledged as the rules of their conduct.”

1833 – Noah Webster:

“The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and his apostles … This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions and government … the moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws.”

1841 – Alexis de Tocqueville (Democracy in America):

“In the United States of America the sovereign authority is religious … there is no other country in the world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America.”

Summer 8, 1845 – President Andrew Jackson asserts:

“The Bible is the rock upon which our Republic rests.”

February 11, 1861 – Abraham Lincoln, farewell at Springfield, Illinois:

“Unless the great God who assisted (Washington) shall be with me and aid me, I must fail; but if the same Omniscient Mind and Mighty Arm that directed and protected him shall guide and support me, I shall not fail … Let us all pray that the God of our fathers may not forsake us now.”

Lincoln on the Bible:

“In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it, we would not know right from wrong. All things most desireable for man’s welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.” (George L. Hunt, Calvinism and the Political Order, Westminster Press, 1965, p.33)

1884 – U.S. Supreme Court reiterates the Declaration’s reference to our rights as being God-given.

These inherent rights have never been more happily expressed than in the Declaration of Independence, “we hold these truths to be self-evident” that is, so plain that their truth is recognized upon their mere statement “that all men are endowed” – not by edicts of emperors, or by decrees of parliament, or acts of Congress, but “by their Creator with certain inalienable rights and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and to secure these” – not grant them but secure them “governments are instituted among men.”

1891 – The U.S. Supreme Court restates that America is a “Christian Nation.”

“Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian … this is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation … we find everywhere a clear definition of the same truth … this is a Christian nation.” (Church of the Holy Trinity vs. United States, 143 US 457, 36 L ed 226, Justice Brewer)

1909 – President Theodore Roosevelt:

“After a week on perplexing problems … it does so rest my soul to come into the house of The Lord and to sing and mean it, ‘Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty’ … (my) great joy and glory that in occupying an exalted position in the nation, I am enabled, to preach the practical moralities of the Bible to my fellow-countrymen and to hold up Christ as the hope and Savior of the world.” (Ferdinand C. Iglehart, Theodore Roosevelt – The Man As I knew Him, A.L. Burt, 1919)

1913 – President Woodrow Wilson:

“America was born to exemplify the devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the Holy Scriptures.”

1952 – US Supreme Court defines the “Separation of Church and State.”

“We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being … No Constitutional requirement makes it necessary for government to be hostile to religion and to throw its weight against the efforts to widen the scope of religious influence. The government must remain neutral when it comes to competition between sects … The First Amendment, however, does not say that in every respect there shall be a separation of Church and State.”

January 20, 1977 – President Jimmy Carter:

“Here before me is the Bible used in the inauguration of our first President in 1789, and I have just taken the oath of office on the Bible my mother gave me just a few years ago, opened to the timeless admonition from the ancient prophet Micah: ‘He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God’” (Micah 6:2).

1980 – President Ronald Reagan:

“The time has come to turn to God and reassert our trust in Him for the Healing of America … our country is in need of and ready for a spiritual renewal.”

May 3, 1990 – President George Bush proclaims National Day of Prayer.

“The great faith that led our Nation’s Founding Fathers to pursue this bold experience in self-government has sustained us in uncertain and perilous times; it has given us strength to this very day. Like them, we do very well to recall our ‘firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,’ to give thanks for the freedom and prosperity this nation enjoys, and to pray for continued help and guidance from our wise and loving Creator.”

Don't see any princinples of any kind in any of that Lonestar. Sorry.
Christian principles are not "I believe in God". "God gives us strength". All political rhetoric.
Sorry, the subject is nation not founded on Christian principles Lonestar.
Your cut and paste job suggests Bush and Reagan were Founders.
Try something a little more original next time. You know, something YOU came up with, not a cut and paste.

Hey stupid, I simply showed a history of how God has been the cornerstone of this nation. If you are too stupid to know what "Christian principles" are, then I can't help you.


Fact is you stupid puke, this nation was founded on Christian principles by men of faith. If you wish to ignore the overwhelming evidence that proves it then go ahead and stay ignorant your entire miserable life.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

Are you displaying the aforementioned Christian tenets in your posts?

"By their fruits, you will know them"....or something like that?

 

[confussed]

James Madison;
"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

John Adams;
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

Thomas Jefferson;
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"

Ben Franklin;
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

Thomas Paine;
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

The first settleres were Puritans, that's why they can here to freely practice religion, or at least until it went crazy with burning witches, and making people ashamed in the eyes of God. Moral and ethical behavour, you know those days before the hippies. After the hippies everything came out into the open, Even today seqular practice is being used as a religion of hate against christanity. The Christian Coalition, the base of the Republican party. Decide for yourself, and remember you always have freedom of choice.

 

[bodecea]

James Madison;
"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

John Adams;
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

Thomas Jefferson;
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"

Ben Franklin;
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

Thomas Paine;
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

The first settleres were Puritans, that's why they can here to freely practice religion, or at least until it went crazy with burning witches, and making people ashamed in the eyes of God.

Actually, the businessmen came to Jamestown first and then the Pilgrims and then the Puritans. The Puritans, while wanting religious freedom for themselves, would NOT allow it for any others. They exiles, imprisoned or killed anyone who disagreed with their theocratic line. Read up on Quakers, Anne Hutchinson, Roger Williams.

Moral and ethical behavour, you know those days before the hippies. After the hippies everything came out into the open, Even today seqular practice is being used as a religion of hate against christanity. The Christian Coalition, the base of the Republican party. Decide for yourself, and remember you always have freedom of choice.

Hippies?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What amazes me about you LoneStar is your excellent on point posts in support of 2nd Amendment and gun rights and fiscal issues that I agree with you on point 100% that are supported by you with the LAW AND CONSTITUTION which you cite, yet in this argument you make claims without any LAW OR CONSTITUTION to back any of it up. You ain't stupid. However, you have no specific principles to cite in this argument and never make them.
Oh well, at least we agree on something.

That's because this nation wasn't founded on laws or the Constitution. The Constitution came AFTER this country was founded. The evidence is in the words of the founding fathers, particularly the DOI.

Granted, God is not mentioned in the Constitution, but He is mentioned in every major document leading up to the final wording of the Constitution. For example, Connecticut is still known as the "Constitution State" because its colonial constitution was used as a model for the United States Constitution. Its first words were: "For as much as it has pleased the almighty God by the wise disposition of His Divine Providence…"

Most of the fifty-five Founding Fathers who worked on the Constitution were members of orthodox Christian churches and many were even evangelical Christians. The first official act in the First Continental Congress was to open in Christian prayer, which ended in these words: "...the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son, our Savior. Amen". Sounds Christian to me.

Ben Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, said: "...God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"

John Adams stated so eloquently during this period of time that; "The general principles on which the fathers achieved Independence were ... the general principles of Christianity ... I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that the general principles of Christianity are as etemal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, and one of the three men most responsible for the writing of the Constitution declared:

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty-as well as privilege and interest- of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

Need I go on? Fact is, this isn't a theocracy and no one has suggested it was or should be but the underlining principles upon which this nation was founded is undeniably Christian as Jefferson demonstrated in the DOI.

Now you can choose to ignore the words of the founding fathers but that would only make you a fool.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Don't see any princinples of any kind in any of that Lonestar. Sorry.
Christian principles are not "I believe in God". "God gives us strength". All political rhetoric.
Sorry, the subject is nation not founded on Christian principles Lonestar.
Your cut and paste job suggests Bush and Reagan were Founders.
Try something a little more original next time. You know, something YOU came up with, not a cut and paste.

Hey stupid, I simply showed a history of how God has been the cornerstone of this nation. If you are too stupid to know what "Christian principles" are, then I can't help you.


Fact is you stupid puke, this nation was founded on Christian principles by men of faith. If you wish to ignore the overwhelming evidence that proves it then go ahead and stay ignorant your entire miserable life.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

Are you displaying the aforementioned Christian tenets in your posts?

"By their fruits, you will know them"....or something like that?

Shows how little you know.

 

[bodecea]

Hey stupid, I simply showed a history of how God has been the cornerstone of this nation. If you are too stupid to know what "Christian principles" are, then I can't help you.


Fact is you stupid puke, this nation was founded on Christian principles by men of faith. If you wish to ignore the overwhelming evidence that proves it then go ahead and stay ignorant your entire miserable life.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

Are you displaying the aforementioned Christian tenets in your posts?

"By their fruits, you will know them"....or something like that?

Shows how little you know.

Actions speak louder than words, you know. I see actions by people on these boards...and I see their words.....I draw conclusions about them based on how they BEHAVE towards others....not by what they SAY they believe.

That is the prudent thing to do.....and applies also on what our FOUNDERS DID as opposed to what they SAID.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Are you displaying the aforementioned Christian tenets in your posts?

"By their fruits, you will know them"....or something like that?

Shows how little you know.

Actions speak louder than words, you know. I see actions by people on these boards...and I see their words.....I draw conclusions about them based on how they BEHAVE towards others....not by what they SAY they believe.

That is the prudent thing to do.....and applies also on what our FOUNDERS DID as opposed to what they SAID.

And your actions proves you're an idiot.

That actions taken by our founding fathers resulted in a free nation with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Without their actions you would be bowing to the Queen of England.

 

[bodecea]

What amazes me about you LoneStar is your excellent on point posts in support of 2nd Amendment and gun rights and fiscal issues that I agree with you on point 100% that are supported by you with the LAW AND CONSTITUTION which you cite, yet in this argument you make claims without any LAW OR CONSTITUTION to back any of it up. You ain't stupid. However, you have no specific principles to cite in this argument and never make them.
Oh well, at least we agree on something.

That's because this nation wasn't founded on laws or the Constitution. The Constitution came AFTER this country was founded. The evidence is in the words of the founding fathers, particularly the DOI.

And the DOI is not based on Christian tenets, but on Enlightenment tenets. Thank you for bringing that up.

Granted, God is not mentioned in the Constitution, but He is mentioned in every major document leading up to the final wording of the Constitution.

And isn't it fascinating that in the FINAL PRODUCT, god was left out.

For example, Connecticut is still known as the "Constitution State" because its colonial constitution was used as a model for the United States Constitution. Its first words were: "For as much as it has pleased the almighty God by the wise disposition of His Divine Providence…"

And isn't it interesting how our Founders made a conscious effort to leave the god part out of their federal constitution. A conscious effort.

Most of the fifty-five Founding Fathers who worked on the Constitution were members of orthodox Christian churches and many were even evangelical Christians. The first official act in the First Continental Congress was to open in Christian prayer, which ended in these words: "...the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son, our Savior. Amen". Sounds Christian to me.

And they made a conscious effort to leave all that behind in the creation of the Constitution. That is one of the things that make them great in my eyes....they knew better than to carry that over into the creation of our Country's structure. I'm afraid that today's orthodox and evangelical christians would not be so wise if given the chance.

Ben Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, said: "...God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"

Ben Franklin was a deist at best, an atheist most likely....but most definitely a follower of the Enlightenment.

John Adams stated so eloquently during this period of time that; "The general principles on which the fathers achieved Independence were ... the general principles of Christianity ... I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that the general principles of Christianity are as etemal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

John Adams STATED....true....however I look to his ACTIONS, signing the Treaty of Tripoli which was approved unanimously by his Senate and includes the statement that the United States is not a christian nation. That is codified as law....Adams' statements you mentioned are NOT codified as law. Actions speak louder than words.

John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, and one of the three men most responsible for the writing of the Constitution declared:

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty-as well as privilege and interest- of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

People say many, many things....how did John Jay codify christianity into our laws/Supreme Court decisions?

Need I go on? Fact is, this isn't a theocracy and no one has suggested it was or should be but the underlining principles upon which this nation was founded is undeniably Christian as Jefferson demonstrated in the DOI.

Except for a few who stepped into this thread without reading thru, no one has said this is a theocracy...not you, not me....but as the OP says, neither is the U.S. based on Christian tenets.

Now you can choose to ignore the words of the founding fathers but that would only make you a fool.

I would be a fool if I took words over Actions the founders took. I would be a fool if I took words over the Constitution they actually wrote and signed. I would be a fool if I took words over the Laws and Supreme Courts decisions they made.

Actions speak louder than words.....yes or no?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What amazes me about you LoneStar is your excellent on point posts in support of 2nd Amendment and gun rights and fiscal issues that I agree with you on point 100% that are supported by you with the LAW AND CONSTITUTION which you cite, yet in this argument you make claims without any LAW OR CONSTITUTION to back any of it up. You ain't stupid. However, you have no specific principles to cite in this argument and never make them.
Oh well, at least we agree on something.

That's because this nation wasn't founded on laws or the Constitution. The Constitution came AFTER this country was founded. The evidence is in the words of the founding fathers, particularly the DOI.

And the DOI is not based on Christian tenets, but on Enlightenment tenets. Thank you for bringing that up.



And isn't it fascinating that in the FINAL PRODUCT, god was left out.



And isn't it interesting how our Founders made a conscious effort to leave the god part out of their federal constitution. A conscious effort.



And they made a conscious effort to leave all that behind in the creation of the Constitution. That is one of the things that make them great in my eyes....they knew better than to carry that over into the creation of our Country's structure. I'm afraid that today's orthodox and evangelical christians would not be so wise if given the chance.



Ben Franklin was a deist at best, an atheist most likely....but most definitely a follower of the Enlightenment.



John Adams STATED....true....however I look to his ACTIONS, signing the Treaty of Tripoli which was approved unanimously by his Senate and includes the statement that the United States is not a christian nation. That is codified as law....Adams' statements you mentioned are NOT codified as law. Actions speak louder than words.



People say many, many things....how did John Jay codify christianity into our laws/Supreme Court decisions?

Need I go on? Fact is, this isn't a theocracy and no one has suggested it was or should be but the underlining principles upon which this nation was founded is undeniably Christian as Jefferson demonstrated in the DOI.

Except for a few who stepped into this thread without reading thru, no one has said this is a theocracy...not you, not me....but as the OP says, neither is the U.S. based on Christian tenets.

Now you can choose to ignore the words of the founding fathers but that would only make you a fool.

I would be a fool if I took words over Actions the founders took. I would be a fool if I took words over the Constitution they actually wrote and signed. I would be a fool if I took words over the Laws and Supreme Courts decisions they made.

Actions speak louder than words.....yes or no?

You can call it whatever you want. Fact is this nation was founded on Christian principles.

How many times are you going to lose the same argument?

I'll see you the treaty of tripoli and raise you the treaty of paris.

Fact is article 11 does not exist in the original treaty and as I've already shown translations can be incorrect.

Because this isn't a theocracy the Constitution had to be secular. Are you really as stupid as you appear to be?

Face it, you lost this argument on day one. No amount of you rehashing the same old argument is going to change the facts.

 

[bodecea]

Shows how little you know.

Actions speak louder than words, you know. I see actions by people on these boards...and I see their words.....I draw conclusions about them based on how they BEHAVE towards others....not by what they SAY they believe.

That is the prudent thing to do.....and applies also on what our FOUNDERS DID as opposed to what they SAID.

And your actions proves you're an idiot.

Your christian tenets in action again?

That actions taken by our founding fathers resulted in a free nation with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Exactly. Enlightenment tenets....NOT Christian tenets. We were unique, we were the FIRST to run away from those Christian based tenets of Europe.

Without their actions you would be bowing to the Queen of England.

Now THAT would be Christian based Tenets....since she is Head of the Church of England.

 

[bodecea]

That's because this nation wasn't founded on laws or the Constitution. The Constitution came AFTER this country was founded. The evidence is in the words of the founding fathers, particularly the DOI.

And the DOI is not based on Christian tenets, but on Enlightenment tenets. Thank you for bringing that up.



And isn't it fascinating that in the FINAL PRODUCT, god was left out.



And isn't it interesting how our Founders made a conscious effort to leave the god part out of their federal constitution. A conscious effort.



And they made a conscious effort to leave all that behind in the creation of the Constitution. That is one of the things that make them great in my eyes....they knew better than to carry that over into the creation of our Country's structure. I'm afraid that today's orthodox and evangelical christians would not be so wise if given the chance.



Ben Franklin was a deist at best, an atheist most likely....but most definitely a follower of the Enlightenment.



John Adams STATED....true....however I look to his ACTIONS, signing the Treaty of Tripoli which was approved unanimously by his Senate and includes the statement that the United States is not a christian nation. That is codified as law....Adams' statements you mentioned are NOT codified as law. Actions speak louder than words.



People say many, many things....how did John Jay codify christianity into our laws/Supreme Court decisions?



Except for a few who stepped into this thread without reading thru, no one has said this is a theocracy...not you, not me....but as the OP says, neither is the U.S. based on Christian tenets.

Now you can choose to ignore the words of the founding fathers but that would only make you a fool.

I would be a fool if I took words over Actions the founders took. I would be a fool if I took words over the Constitution they actually wrote and signed. I would be a fool if I took words over the Laws and Supreme Courts decisions they made.

Actions speak louder than words.....yes or no?

You can call it whatever you want. Fact is this nation was founded on Christian principles.

How many times are you going to lose the same argument?

I'll see you the treaty of tripoli and raise you the treaty of paris.

Treaty of Paris....pre-Constitution. Treaty of Tripoli...post-Constitution.

Fact is article 11 does not exist in the original treaty and as I've already shown translations can be incorrect.

I've heard that urban legend that has been started by a person with a similar goal as yours...to prove that we are a Christian nation. It's interesting that our copy in the National Archives contain that section. But....in a way...it is telling how someone would go to SO MUCH TROUBLE to try to debunk that treaty. It's pretty damning evidence.

Because this isn't a theocracy the Constitution had to be secular.

The Constitution is secular because our Founders wanted a secular nation based on the secular concepts laid out by Enlightenment philosophers such as John Locke.

Are you really as stupid as you appear to be?

Ah, more of your Christian tenets in action.

Face it, you lost this argument on day one. No amount of you rehashing the same old argument is going to change the facts.

You try very hard....but one thing stands quite clear...Actions speak louder than words. All you bring to the argument are words and your christian tenet insults.

I and others bring the Founders' actions, their laws, their supreme court judgements and their Constitution.

Actions trump words every time.


Now...feel free to insult some more.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Actions speak louder than words, you know. I see actions by people on these boards...and I see their words.....I draw conclusions about them based on how they BEHAVE towards others....not by what they SAY they believe.

That is the prudent thing to do.....and applies also on what our FOUNDERS DID as opposed to what they SAID.

And your actions proves you're an idiot.

Your christian tenets in action again?

That actions taken by our founding fathers resulted in a free nation with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Exactly. Enlightenment tenets....NOT Christian tenets. We were unique, we were the FIRST to run away from those Christian based tenets of Europe.

Without their actions you would be bowing to the Queen of England.

Now THAT would be Christian based Tenets....since she is Head of the Church of England.

Show me where in the Ten Commandments it states" thou shall not call an idiot an idiot" and you may have a point.

Semantics. I call them Christian tenets for the simple reason that our forefathers were for the most part Christian and cited the Bible more than any other document in their respective writings and speeches.

Christians believe that Jesus is the head of the church so your last statement is utter bullshit.

The Supreme Governor of the Church of England is a title held by the British monarchs which signifies their titular leadership over the Church of England.[1] Even though the monarch's authority over the Church of England is not strong, the position is still very relevant to the church and is mostly observed in a symbolic capacity. The Supreme Governor formally appoints high-ranking members of the church on the advice of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, who is in turn advised by church leaders.[1]

 

[AllieBaba]

Oh. My. God.

 

[AllieBaba]

Bod, you should try reading some real history at some point. I would love it if you would occasionally reference the tomes from which you have gleaned all the specatucular knowledge you have, lol.

Of course you don't. Because you probably know that most people don't consider MAD magazine a historical text.

"
The late scholar M. E. Bradford spent much of his academic career examining all of the private and public writings of the Founding Fathers. According to Bradford in A Worthy Company, all but about five of the 55 Framers of the U.S. Constitution were orthodox Christians. These men had no intention of abolishing the Anglo-Christian culture which they had inherited, says Bradford. In Original Intentions, Bradford notes, “The concept of the Framers as ordinary Christians, as members in good standing of the various Christian communions found in early America, is supported by the recorded pattern of their lives. . . . The assumption that this majority was likely to agree to totally secular institutional arrangements in the very structure of American politics contradicts almost everything we know about human nature, as well as the most self-evident components of Christian teaching concerning the relation of the magistrate to the ultimate source of his authority in God (Original Intentions, 88-89).”
“Of course,” adds Bradford, “the most unmistakable evidence of orthodoxy comes in references made by the Framers to Jesus Christ as Redeemer and Son of God. These are commonplace in their private papers, correspondence and public remarks — and in the early records of their lives….Such declarations are so frequent in the papers of the Framers as to belie the now familiar theory that our Republic came into being in a moment of absolute tolerance, of religious neutrality qua indifference or deistic rationalism….And not all of this evidence is relegated to wills or very private documents (Original Intentions, 89-90).” Many of the Framers speak explicitly “of the promise of the Cross,” Bradford states (Original Intentions, 90). “The variety of surviving Christian witness in the papers and sayings of the Framers is indeed astonishing,” Bradford concludes (Original Intentions, 91).
DeMar and Bradford’s research is confirmed by other fine scholars.
M. Stanton Evans in The Theme Is Freedom: Religion, Politics, and the American Tradition proves, by citing many historical sources, that America’s political traditions and governmental institutions are rooted in the Bible and in medieval and Protestant Christianity. Among the traditions and institutions he cites are the right to own property, the right to buy and sell freely, the notion that the powers of all rulers and all government institutions should be limited, the idea of representative government, and traditions of economic and scientific progress. “All of these conceptions,” Evans says, “come to us from the religion of the Bible (Evans, 307).”
The Christian era of the Middle Ages in Europe “nourished the institutions of free government,” Evans shows (150). Biblical ideas about kingship and the separate but overlapping duties of Church and State led to the medieval idea of constitutionalism, which established limits “on the power of kings, and on the scope of government in general (Evans, 151).” The rejection of this medieval doctrine by the leaders of the Renaissance and the French Enlightenment put Western liberties in jeopardy. The Protestants in Colonial America, however, kept this idea alive. They were influenced by Calvinist notions of covenantal government, a network of social, political, moral, and theological contracts between God and Man, and between people and their government. In their view, kings, presidents, legislators, and judges derive their sovereignty first from God and then from the people under them. Evans shows how this view led first to the Declaration of Independence then to the United States Constitution, and finally to the Bill of Rights. In other words, our whole system of government was founded by the religious right of the 18th century, not by deists, not by French intellectuals, and certainly not by pagans or atheists. Christian faith and American freedom must go together, Evans concludes. "

Christian Heritage | The Culture Watch

 

[AllieBaba]

"
“Although Deism in America would seem to be at floodtide during the American Revolution,” writes Kirk, “actually a revived Christian orthodoxy already was vigorous then — and would be stronger still by the time of the Constitutional Convention. The American people came to expect their public men to be Christians, or at least give lip-service to Christianity (Kirk, 342).”
Six other scholars support Kirk’s statements on American deism. Ernest Campbell Mossner in the Encyclopaedia of Philosophy says, “Before the Revolution, deism made relatively little progress (Mossner, 333).” Rousas J. Rushdoony writes, “Actually, Deism was a late arrival in America, and very slight in extent and influence prior to the American Revolution (Rushdoony, 2).” Historians Forrest McDonald and Ellen Shapiro McDonald point out that not only did the French Enlightenment have no impact on America but also the Founding Fathers “cited the Bible more than any other source (Requiem, 6).” Most Americans “shared a Protestant Christian world view (Requiem, 12),” add the McDonalds. "

"
Finally, in 1989, the Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company published God and Politics: Four Views on the Reformation of Civil Government. Both Gary DeMar and John Eidsmoe, in two separate chapters, present evidence which denies the charge that the Founding Fathers were mostly deist (see pages 200-212 and 221-230)."

"For instance, at one point in Common Sense, after Paine urges the framing of a Continental Charter among the Thirteen Colonies, he writes, “Let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the word of God (Paine, 98).”

Christian Heritage | The Culture Watch

 

[AllieBaba]

"
“Although Deism in America would seem to be at floodtide during the American Revolution,” writes Kirk, “actually a revived Christian orthodoxy already was vigorous then — and would be stronger still by the time of the Constitutional Convention. The American people came to expect their public men to be Christians, or at least give lip-service to Christianity (Kirk, 342).”
Six other scholars support Kirk’s statements on American deism. Ernest Campbell Mossner in the Encyclopaedia of Philosophy says, “Before the Revolution, deism made relatively little progress (Mossner, 333).” Rousas J. Rushdoony writes, “Actually, Deism was a late arrival in America, and very slight in extent and influence prior to the American Revolution (Rushdoony, 2).” Historians Forrest McDonald and Ellen Shapiro McDonald point out that not only did the French Enlightenment have no impact on America but also the Founding Fathers “cited the Bible more than any other source (Requiem, 6).” Most Americans “shared a Protestant Christian world view (Requiem, 12),” add the McDonalds. "

"
Finally, in 1989, the Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company published God and Politics: Four Views on the Reformation of Civil Government. Both Gary DeMar and John Eidsmoe, in two separate chapters, present evidence which denies the charge that the Founding Fathers were mostly deist (see pages 200-212 and 221-230)."

"For instance, at one point in Common Sense, after Paine urges the framing of a Continental Charter among the Thirteen Colonies, he writes, “Let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the word of God (Paine, 98).”

Christian Heritage | The Culture Watch

 

[bodecea]

Bod, you should try reading some real history at some point. I would love it if you would occasionally reference the tomes from which you have gleaned all the specatucular knowledge you have, lol.

Of course you don't. Because you probably know that most people don't consider MAD magazine a historical text.

"
The late scholar M. E. Bradford spent much of his academic career examining all of the private and public writings of the Founding Fathers. According to Bradford in A Worthy Company, all but about five of the 55 Framers of the U.S. Constitution were orthodox Christians. These men had no intention of abolishing the Anglo-Christian culture which they had inherited, says Bradford. In Original Intentions, Bradford notes, “The concept of the Framers as ordinary Christians, as members in good standing of the various Christian communions found in early America, is supported by the recorded pattern of their lives. . . . The assumption that this majority was likely to agree to totally secular institutional arrangements in the very structure of American politics contradicts almost everything we know about human nature, as well as the most self-evident components of Christian teaching concerning the relation of the magistrate to the ultimate source of his authority in God (Original Intentions, 88-89).”
“Of course,” adds Bradford, “the most unmistakable evidence of orthodoxy comes in references made by the Framers to Jesus Christ as Redeemer and Son of God. These are commonplace in their private papers, correspondence and public remarks — and in the early records of their lives….Such declarations are so frequent in the papers of the Framers as to belie the now familiar theory that our Republic came into being in a moment of absolute tolerance, of religious neutrality qua indifference or deistic rationalism….And not all of this evidence is relegated to wills or very private documents (Original Intentions, 89-90).” Many of the Framers speak explicitly “of the promise of the Cross,” Bradford states (Original Intentions, 90). “The variety of surviving Christian witness in the papers and sayings of the Framers is indeed astonishing,” Bradford concludes (Original Intentions, 91).
DeMar and Bradford’s research is confirmed by other fine scholars.
M. Stanton Evans in The Theme Is Freedom: Religion, Politics, and the American Tradition proves, by citing many historical sources, that America’s political traditions and governmental institutions are rooted in the Bible and in medieval and Protestant Christianity. Among the traditions and institutions he cites are the right to own property, the right to buy and sell freely, the notion that the powers of all rulers and all government institutions should be limited, the idea of representative government, and traditions of economic and scientific progress. “All of these conceptions,” Evans says, “come to us from the religion of the Bible (Evans, 307).”
The Christian era of the Middle Ages in Europe “nourished the institutions of free government,” Evans shows (150). Biblical ideas about kingship and the separate but overlapping duties of Church and State led to the medieval idea of constitutionalism, which established limits “on the power of kings, and on the scope of government in general (Evans, 151).” The rejection of this medieval doctrine by the leaders of the Renaissance and the French Enlightenment put Western liberties in jeopardy. The Protestants in Colonial America, however, kept this idea alive. They were influenced by Calvinist notions of covenantal government, a network of social, political, moral, and theological contracts between God and Man, and between people and their government. In their view, kings, presidents, legislators, and judges derive their sovereignty first from God and then from the people under them. Evans shows how this view led first to the Declaration of Independence then to the United States Constitution, and finally to the Bill of Rights. In other words, our whole system of government was founded by the religious right of the 18th century, not by deists, not by French intellectuals, and certainly not by pagans or atheists. Christian faith and American freedom must go together, Evans concludes. "

Christian Heritage | The Culture Watch

What a tremendous spinning of actual history by a person trying to shoe horn Christianity into our Secular Founding....

I actually giggled a little at your post.

 

[bodecea]

"
“Although Deism in America would seem to be at floodtide during the American Revolution,” writes Kirk, “actually a revived Christian orthodoxy already was vigorous then — and would be stronger still by the time of the Constitutional Convention. The American people came to expect their public men to be Christians, or at least give lip-service to Christianity (Kirk, 342).”
Six other scholars support Kirk’s statements on American deism. Ernest Campbell Mossner in the Encyclopaedia of Philosophy says, “Before the Revolution, deism made relatively little progress (Mossner, 333).” Rousas J. Rushdoony writes, “Actually, Deism was a late arrival in America, and very slight in extent and influence prior to the American Revolution (Rushdoony, 2).” Historians Forrest McDonald and Ellen Shapiro McDonald point out that not only did the French Enlightenment have no impact on America but also the Founding Fathers “cited the Bible more than any other source (Requiem, 6).” Most Americans “shared a Protestant Christian world view (Requiem, 12),” add the McDonalds. "

"
Finally, in 1989, the Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company published God and Politics: Four Views on the Reformation of Civil Government. Both Gary DeMar and John Eidsmoe, in two separate chapters, present evidence which denies the charge that the Founding Fathers were mostly deist (see pages 200-212 and 221-230)."

"For instance, at one point in Common Sense, after Paine urges the framing of a Continental Charter among the Thirteen Colonies, he writes, “Let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the word of God (Paine, 98).”

Christian Heritage | The Culture Watch

This is as funny as Conservatives trying to take credit for the founding of our country when the Liberals were our Founders and the Conservatives were the Tories.

I giggled some more.