The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Intense]

A slave is a slave. Either you buy the Bible scripture or you don't. Luckily, it's not my book. I don't blame you. I'd claim it was a poor translation too. Not fun to have to justify these passages.

Definitions do change over time and the Old Testament was a long time ago. For instance, the word awful used to mean "deserving of awe". Quite different.
Here:Etymology- How Words Change Over Time

It is obviously a poor translation. Also, like I said I question anything in the Bible that would contradict at least the basic teachings of Christ. Some things were added/changed by man.

hey, if God gave a shit, he'd make sure people translated him properly- after all, it's his fucking fault we speak so many damned languages anyway, since he got jealous of out tower.

So tell me the story of the tower of Babel and the message behind it?

 

[froggy]

Definitions do change over time and the Old Testament was a long time ago. For instance, the word awful used to mean "deserving of awe". Quite different.
Here:Etymology- How Words Change Over Time

It is obviously a poor translation. Also, like I said I question anything in the Bible that would contradict at least the basic teachings of Christ. Some things were added/changed by man.

hey, if God gave a shit, he'd make sure people translated him properly- after all, it's his fucking fault we speak so many damned languages anyway, since he got jealous of out tower.

So tell me the story of the tower of Babel and the message behind it?

The one where they were building a tower to heaven and God smote them with different languages so they couldn't understand each other.

 

[rikules]

Why on earth wouldn't you go by the statements the founding fathers themselves provide?

Oh, because that's the only way you can make your weird revisionist history work. You have to eliminate the bulk of the evidence.

But there's still the Declaration. Which states what the United States is and will be, and what it will represent.

"Why on earth wouldn't you go by the statements the founding fathers themselves provide? "


I do.

some said "I'm a christian"
some said "I'm a deist"

MOST of them said "every citizen has a right to their own religious freedom"

now
why don't YOU go by what they said?

instead of just cherry picking what you want in order to further your agenda?

 

[rikules]

The History Place - World War II in Europe Timeline: May 10, 1933 - Nazis Burn Books in Germany

Get rid of those pesky docs!

Is that yor granfather I see in that picture?

is that a more recent picture of yuo and your friends at a book burning?


btw...

you'll find that the only book bannings/burnings being requested/demanded in America are being demanded by......

conservative christians


can you say...."harry potter"?

 

[bodecea]

Secularism is as much a belief system or "religion" as is Christianity.....and these anti-Christian, anti-American Secularists are attempting to create their own form of "theocracy" in America by bastardizing our Constitution...

You remind me of

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOPoMgOBU1s]YouTube - Creationist Stupidity can be Limitless[/ame]

"You've got to ignore the facts." Wait a minute, I thought religion was about faith, not facts.

 

[bodecea]

The History Place - World War II in Europe Timeline: May 10, 1933 - Nazis Burn Books in Germany

Get rid of those pesky docs!

Is that yor granfather I see in that picture?

is that a more recent picture of yuo and your friends at a book burning?


btw...

you'll find that the only book bannings/burnings being requested/demanded in America are being demanded by......

conservative christians


can you say...."harry potter"?

We don't want to bring up that Hitler was a self-proclaimed Christian, do we?

 

[Sky Dancer]

The pope condemned Harry Potter

 

[rikules]

The History Place - World War II in Europe Timeline: May 10, 1933 - Nazis Burn Books in Germany

Get rid of those pesky docs!

Is that yor granfather I see in that picture?

is that a more recent picture of yuo and your friends at a book burning?


btw...

you'll find that the only book bannings/burnings being requested/demanded in America are being demanded by......

conservative christians


can you say...."harry potter"?

We don't want to bring up that Hitler was a self-proclaimed Christian, do we?

I imagine it wouldn't help

facts don't work on cons like alliebabble

as we both know
he cherry picks the "facts" (or not facts) that he needs to use to further his agenda

every thing else he just ignores

 

[JBeukema]

Study Locke more. Locke was very critical of Christian Hypocrisy, failing to measure up, while imposing on others.

Fuck Locke in the neck

I esteem that toleration to be the chief characteristic mark of the true Church

....

Lastly, those are not at all to be tolerated who deny the being of a God.

No wonder Republicans love classical (bourgeois) liberalism

 

[JBeukema]

Definitions do change over time and the Old Testament was a long time ago. For instance, the word awful used to mean "deserving of awe". Quite different.
Here:Etymology- How Words Change Over Time

It is obviously a poor translation. Also, like I said I question anything in the Bible that would contradict at least the basic teachings of Christ. Some things were added/changed by man.

hey, if God gave a shit, he'd make sure people translated him properly- after all, it's his fucking fault we speak so many damned languages anyway, since he got jealous of out tower.

So tell me the story of the tower of Babel and the message behind it?

Basically, god saw a massive pillar and it reminded him of his tiny penis, so he threw a fit.

 

[Sky Dancer]

hey, if God gave a shit, he'd make sure people translated him properly- after all, it's his fucking fault we speak so many damned languages anyway, since he got jealous of out tower.

So tell me the story of the tower of Babel and the message behind it?

Basically, god saw a massive pillar and it reminded him of his tiny penis, so he threw a fit.

God has a penis? No wonder we're in trouble. Is it circumcised? And a giant ow could be heard throughout the three thousand fold universe.

 

[JBeukema]

So tell me the story of the tower of Babel and the message behind it?

Basically, god saw a massive pillar and it reminded him of his tiny penis, so he threw a fit.

God has a penis? No wonder we're in trouble. Is it circumcised? And a giant ow could be heard throughout the three thousand fold universe.

Why do you think he hates women so much and had to force himself upon Mary whether she wanted it or not?


'You will have my baby'

-what?

'Shut up, bitch! I am the Lord your God and that wasn't a question.'

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Secularism is as much a belief system or "religion" as is Christianity.....and these anti-Christian, anti-American Secularists are attempting to create their own form of "theocracy" in America by bastardizing our Constitution...

You remind me of

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOPoMgOBU1s]YouTube - Creationist Stupidity can be Limitless[/ame]

i especially like the part where he says....
"It's funny how we equate the word atheism with intellectual...it's the exact opposite"...

 

[Christopher]

Many scholars and theologians would contest that.

Who are these "many" you refer to?

They were captured and enslaved- like those brought here on the ships.

Nope, that is a common misconception though. Here, from the Encyclopedia of Cultural Anthropology, regarding the ancient world:

Scholars do not agree on a definition of "slavery." The term has been used at various times for a wide range of institutions, including plantation slavery, forced labor, the drudgery of factories and sweatshops, child labor, semi-voluntary prostitution, bride-price marriage, child adoption for payment, and paid-for surrogate motherhood. Somewhere within this range, the literal meaning of "slavery" shifts into metaphorical meaning, but it is not entirely clear at what point. A similar problem arises when we look at other cultures. The reason is that the term "Slavery" is evocative rather than analytical, calling to mind a loose bundle of diagnostic features. These features are mainly derived from the most recent direct Western experience with slavery, that of the southern United States, the Caribbean, and Latin America. The present Western image of slavery has been haphazardly constructed out of the representations of that experience in nineteenth-century abolitionist literature, and later novels, textbooks, and films...From a global cross-cultural and historical perspective, however, New World slavery was a unique conjunction of features...In brief, most varieties of slavery did not exhibit the three elements that were dominant in the New World: slaves as property and commodities; their use exclusively as labor; and their lack of freedom...

Note the last sentence. Our views on the term slavery are typically based on our Western experience of slavery. You cannot say the “slavery” of the Old Testament times is the same US slavery.

And Jesus never spoke out against slavery, but he dd say that it is good to obey the laws of the prophets when your are able- that'd include the laws above pertaining to slavery.

You claim Jesus "never" spoke against it. Do you believe we have a record of everything Jesus said? What we know Jesus did say indicates He would be very much against slavery as we define it today.

Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses and gave us a higher law, so no that would not include any "laws" about slavery however it was defined. No offense, but you really do not seem to have a basic understanding of the scriptures. Could you please share where it is you learned about the Bible?

 

[Intense]

Study Locke more. Locke was very critical of Christian Hypocrisy, failing to measure up, while imposing on others.

Fuck Locke in the neck

I esteem that toleration to be the chief characteristic mark of the true Church

....

Lastly, those are not at all to be tolerated who deny the being of a God.

No wonder Republicans love classical (bourgeois) liberalism

You have some serious issues with Locke, that's for sure. I don't think he would have been too big on you either. He was good on fighting Tyranny though, and that was important, then and now. Many changes in the social contract between then and now. Our perspectives are totally alien to his time JB. One day you will change sides.

 

[Intense]

hey, if God gave a shit, he'd make sure people translated him properly- after all, it's his fucking fault we speak so many damned languages anyway, since he got jealous of out tower.

So tell me the story of the tower of Babel and the message behind it?

Basically, god saw a massive pillar and it reminded him of his tiny penis, so he threw a fit.

Have you ever experienced a Saturn Return? Why fuck with the forces of creation like that? I hope for your sake, you are given a pass or two or two hundred. You have Liberty, Purpose, and Ability. Why not contribute more to the constructive side of you? Stop holding it prisoner? We are all short on balance, you are not alone there. Is it really the current that needs fighting and changing? Could the problem be elsewhere? Have you ever watched "Dexter" ? I think might like it. Great Series.

 

[JBeukema]

They were captured and enslaved- like those brought here on the ships.

Nope, that is a common misconception though. Here, from the Encyclopedia of Cultural Anthropology, regarding the ancient world:

It's all there in the OT.

Of course, it was mostly virgin girls who enslaved (sexually) god said all mean,. boys, and females that had already been fucked had to die.

quote]In brief, most varieties of slavery did not exhibit the three elements that were dominant in the New World: slaves as property and commodities; their use exclusively as labor; and their lack of freedom...[/quote]



Again, it's all there in their own holy books.

You claim Jesus "never" spoke against it. Do you believe we have a record of everything Jesus said? What we know Jesus did say indicates He would be very much against slavery as we define it today.

O RLY? Tell me where Jesus is quoted as opposing slavery..

Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses and gave us a higher law, so no that would not include any "laws" about slavery however it was defined.

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."


Peter sure never got that impression

1 Peter 2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

No offense, but you really do not seem to have a basic understanding of the scriptures.

I quote the text and you simply make shit up.

I present facts and you present conjecture and your opinion


-Rev. James T. Beukema

 

[JBeukema]

One day you will change sides.

I did. I was a Liberal back when I was stupid and knew nothing but the empty rhetoric of the bourgeois liberals and their useful idiots.

 

[rikules]

One day you will change sides.

I did. I was a Liberal back when I was stupid and knew nothing but the empty rhetoric of the bourgeois liberals and their useful idiots.

well

you don't seem overly fond of deranged right wing conservatives, either

that's a GOOD thing.

 

[Christopher]

It's all there in the OT.

All I did was provide the context of what a slave meant back then, because you implied it was the same as today. It is not the same as our definition as you implied. That was the point I was disputing. I've provided the evidence from the Encyclopedia of Cultural Anthropology.

Regardless of whether or not you think God condoned slavery in the OT, it goes against what Christ taught. There is a contradiction. I will stick to what Christ has said, because his teachings are consistent. I understand that man has changed things in the Bible, both intentionally and unintentionally.

O RLY? Tell me where Jesus is quoted as opposing slavery.

I was disputing your claim that Jesus "never" said anything opposing slavery. Again, do you believe we have a record of everything Jesus said? Just yes or no will do.

How about the Golden Rule? Do you honestly think Jesus would have us treat others as slaves according to our definition today? It goes against the basic teachings He did give us.

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."


Peter sure never got that impression

1 Peter 2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

The “all scripture is inspired by God” is true, as long as man hasn’t tampered with it. I only believe the Bible as far as it has not been tampered with and as far as it has been translated correctly. Do you honestly believe there are no issues with translation of the Bible? That there are no misinterpretations? There is plenty of evidence of it.
Here is where Jesus said he came to fulfill the law:
Matthew 5:17-18

17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I quote the text and you simply make shit up.

I present facts and you present conjecture and your opinion


-Rev. James T. Beukema

Anyone can quote text. That doesn't always mean the text reflect reality. The problem is that you quote text without understanding the context. You also quote from a different translation of the Bible. Those two things are the biggest issues with your understanding. Look up the most accurate translations of the Bible, then consider the full context behind the scripture. That is the most honest thing to do and what I have always tried to do.

I have made nothing up. I have backed up the things I have said with evidence and context. It is you who is backing up misinterpreted “text”.