The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Gadawg73]

Politicians proclaim shit all the time.
What Christian principles founded our government?

The principle that all men are created equal. For one.

Many religions possess that principle. Plus, I always thought that the Bible held a biasness
against women (I could be wrong, though).

Allie will tell us that the Founders banning women from voting, most professions and serving on juries, just to name a few, were all "Christian principles".

 

[AllieBaba]

No, Allie won't.

I'm sure you will, tho.

 

[Agit8r]

Well, it certainly wasn't founded on Objectivism

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Where is this written:
"No religous test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office OR PUBLIC trust in THE UNITED STATES"
Where Allie? Where is that written and who wrote it?
You claim that we were founded on Christian principles and the Founders wrote that religion is NOT a requirement for any office or the public trust in The United States.
You are brainwashed and dumber than a box of rocks.
Tell us where that is written? Where is it written that religion is not part of our government? Where is that Allie? I bet you are too stubborn and air headed to answer that question?

It's written in the constitution Artcle VI, paragraph 3 but that does not disprove that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.

How can you disregard the Declaration of Independence? How about George Washington's Proclamation of National Thanksgiving? Were he stated:

"Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor, and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me "to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness."

Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be. That we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks, for his kind care and protection of the People of this Country previous to their becoming a Nation, for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable interpositions of his providence, which we experienced in the course and conclusion of the late war, for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty, which we have since enjoyed, for the peaceable and rational manner, in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One now lately instituted, for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed; and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and in general for all the great and various favors which he hath been pleased to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech him to pardon our national and other transgressions, to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually, to render our national government a blessing to all the people, by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed, to protect and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as have shown kindness unto us) and to bless them with good government, peace, and concord. To promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the encrease of science among them and Us, and generally to grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best. "

Given under my hand at the City of New York the third day of October in the year of our Lord 1789.

Politicians proclaim shit all the time.
What Christian principles founded our government?

All of them.

 

[HUGGY]

James Madison;
"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

John Adams;
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

Thomas Jefferson;
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"

Ben Franklin;
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

Thomas Paine;
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

I wonder????

If by some miracle of SCIENCE we could transport the science and knowledge of evolution, the genome, etc..we know now, back into the days of the mid 18th century and selectively offer it to those we know will be a part of the founding of our nation...what would they think of it?

If you ask me our founding fathers did a remarkable job keeping the bible OUT of the Constitution. The minor references to a deity were probably impossible to keep completely out of all documents such as the Preamble. People were a lot dumber then..or at least a lot more ignorant and their beliefs and "faith" had little if any serious challenge in science.

 

[AllieBaba]

James Madison;
"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

John Adams;
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

Thomas Jefferson;
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"

Ben Franklin;
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

Thomas Paine;
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

I wonder????

If by some miracle of SCIENCE we could transport the science and knowledge of evolution, the genome, etc..we know now, back into the days of the mid 18th century and selectively offer it to those we know will be a part of the founding of our nation...what would they think of it?

If you ask me our founding fathers did a remarkable job keeping the bible OUT of the Constitution. The minor references to a deity were probably impossible to keep completely out of all documents such as the Preamble. People were a lot dumber then..or at least a lot more ignorant and their beliefs and "faith" had little if any serious challenge in science.

What a ridiculous post.

 

[Gadawg73]

It's written in the constitution Artcle VI, paragraph 3 but that does not disprove that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.

How can you disregard the Declaration of Independence? How about George Washington's Proclamation of National Thanksgiving? Were he stated:

Politicians proclaim shit all the time.
What Christian principles founded our government?

All of them.

Then how come those fine Christian men held slaves in bondage?
Is that one of your "all of them"?
Try again. Please, something, anything. This is too easy.

 

[Gadawg73]

James Madison;
"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

John Adams;
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

Thomas Jefferson;
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"

Ben Franklin;
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

Thomas Paine;
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

I wonder????

If by some miracle of SCIENCE we could transport the science and knowledge of evolution, the genome, etc..we know now, back into the days of the mid 18th century and selectively offer it to those we know will be a part of the founding of our nation...what would they think of it?

If you ask me our founding fathers did a remarkable job keeping the bible OUT of the Constitution. The minor references to a deity were probably impossible to keep completely out of all documents such as the Preamble. People were a lot dumber then..or at least a lot more ignorant and their beliefs and "faith" had little if any serious challenge in science.

What a ridiculous post.

To someone that goes to the Joke Phoenix online University that would be a ridiculous post.
If you read it again you may see that it is on point in every way.

 

[HUGGY]

James Madison;
"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

John Adams;
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

Thomas Jefferson;
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"

Ben Franklin;
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

Thomas Paine;
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

I wonder????

If by some miracle of SCIENCE we could transport the science and knowledge of evolution, the genome, etc..we know now, back into the days of the mid 18th century and selectively offer it to those we know will be a part of the founding of our nation...what would they think of it?

If you ask me our founding fathers did a remarkable job keeping the bible OUT of the Constitution. The minor references to a deity were probably impossible to keep completely out of all documents such as the Preamble. People were a lot dumber then..or at least a lot more ignorant and their beliefs and "faith" had little if any serious challenge in science.

What a ridiculous post.

More ridiculous than invisible all knowing beings and people coming back from being dead three days? I have a hard time taking someone that believes in the nonsense that you do having the hubris calling someone else "ridiculous".

 

[AllieBaba]

Politicians proclaim shit all the time.
What Christian principles founded our government?

All of them.

Then how come those fine Christian men held slaves in bondage?
Is that one of your "all of them"?
Try again. Please, something, anything. This is too easy.

Logical fallacy, moron. You might think it's easy, but it's because you don't know what you're doing or how ignorant you sound.

 

[AllieBaba]

I wonder????

If by some miracle of SCIENCE we could transport the science and knowledge of evolution, the genome, etc..we know now, back into the days of the mid 18th century and selectively offer it to those we know will be a part of the founding of our nation...what would they think of it?

If you ask me our founding fathers did a remarkable job keeping the bible OUT of the Constitution. The minor references to a deity were probably impossible to keep completely out of all documents such as the Preamble. People were a lot dumber then..or at least a lot more ignorant and their beliefs and "faith" had little if any serious challenge in science.

What a ridiculous post.

More ridiculous than invisible all knowing beings and people coming back from being dead three days? I have a hard time taking someone that believes in the nonsense that you do having the hubris calling someone else "ridiculous".

It's ridiculous because our founding fathers were quite outspoken about the fact that they were building a new Republic based on tenets of Christianity. Equally ridiculous because the bible and God are referenced repeatedly in the documents upon which this Republic was built, and triply ridiculous because you think they weren't as smart as you.

I mean, c'mon. Lol. "They might have referred to God but it's because they weren't very SMART".

You don't think that's a little over the top?

Lol.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Politicians proclaim shit all the time.
What Christian principles founded our government?

All of them.

Then how come those fine Christian men held slaves in bondage?
Is that one of your "all of them"?
Try again. Please, something, anything. This is too easy.

Have you ever read the Bible?

There's not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery. The rights of holding slaves is clearly established, both by precept and example.

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America.

 

[HUGGY]

What a ridiculous post.

More ridiculous than invisible all knowing beings and people coming back from being dead three days? I have a hard time taking someone that believes in the nonsense that you do having the hubris calling someone else "ridiculous".

It's ridiculous because our founding fathers were quite outspoken about the fact that they were building a new Republic based on tenets of Christianity. Equally ridiculous because the bible and God are referenced repeatedly in the documents upon which this Republic was built, and triply ridiculous because you think they weren't as smart as you.

I mean, c'mon. Lol. "They might have referred to God but it's because they weren't very SMART".

You don't think that's a little over the top?

Lol.

Miss Baba...I try to be patient with you. I honestly do. Where did I ever say they were not smart? They were extremely "smart" considering the level of education and understanding of science of their day. They were among the very smartest of men. There were also some as there are today that were not so very smart that had much influence as this nation was being created. Maybe "smart" isn't the best description. That being only one of the apparent symptoms of curiosity and knowledge. Compared to today the "common" knowledge of then was sadly lacking in facts. One can hardly blame people for believing in bullshit if that is all they get taught. It would take a strong will as well as intellect to overcome that kind of peer pressure to be a "theist" let alone an atheist.

I have never indicated anywhere that I am smarter than our founding fathers. BUT one can only go with what one knows..and in THAT context a 5 year old of today has more truth and fact to go on than anyone in 1750. In THAT sense we are all smarter than anyone in 1750....or at least should be..

 

[Iridescence]

Sometimes it seems that everyone is a complete idiot. Even those that are 'enlightened' seem to only be 'enlightened' into a deeper level of idiocy. Educated? Into and by what? By all that is Holy... there is so much that is freely given to us within this nation and every bit of our complaining and bitching is because of just how 'free' and unappreciated most of the 'us' are.

There was a time that people here were too busy staying alive than to worry about who was the smarter one in a basket full of fluffy bunnies. It seems that people today have too much time on their hands to think rather than to live. Analyze something enough and it comes to be transparent and irrelevant. The Constitution is what worked for so many years because the people, in general, were more limited by the hardships of their living... however, because the same does not apply, the old interpretations of The Constitution fall miserably short. Too many leaders that have not rightfully earned their position to criticize groups of people that have only made the necessary choices that which have ensured their survival and growth.

There are amendments and things can always be modified, but what of the groups and sects of people that are completely ignorant to the facts of the system's levels? It seems that even the greatest men in office don't understand, or don't portray an understanding effectively enough to the people that are in most need of hearing the depths. It is about more than merely waking a few up, obviously... and I say so as groggy as I am yet.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Sometimes it seems that everyone is a complete idiot. Even those that are 'enlightened' seem to only be 'enlightened' into a deeper level of idiocy. Educated? Into and by what? By all that is Holy... there is so much that is freely given to us within this nation and every bit of our complaining and bitching is because of just how 'free' and unappreciated most of the 'us' are.

There was a time that people here were too busy staying alive than to worry about who was the smarter one in a basket full of fluffy bunnies. It seems that people today have too much time on their hands to think rather than to live. Analyze something enough and it comes to be transparent and irrelevant. The Constitution is what worked for so many years because the people, in general, were more limited by the hardships of their living... however, because the same does not apply, the old interpretations of The Constitution fall miserably short. Too many leaders that have not rightfully earned their position to criticize groups of people that have only made the necessary choices that which have ensured their survival and growth.

There are amendments and things can always be modified, but what of the groups and sects of people that are completely ignorant to the facts of the system's levels? It seems that even the greatest men in office don't understand, or don't portray an understanding effectively enough to the people that are in most need of hearing the depths. It is about more than merely waking a few up, obviously... and I say so as groggy as I am yet.

You type a lot of words but I'm not sure what your point is. Either you believe this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles or you don't. Which is it?

 

[HUGGY]

Sometimes it seems that everyone is a complete idiot. Even those that are 'enlightened' seem to only be 'enlightened' into a deeper level of idiocy. Educated? Into and by what? By all that is Holy... there is so much that is freely given to us within this nation and every bit of our complaining and bitching is because of just how 'free' and unappreciated most of the 'us' are.

There was a time that people here were too busy staying alive than to worry about who was the smarter one in a basket full of fluffy bunnies. It seems that people today have too much time on their hands to think rather than to live. Analyze something enough and it comes to be transparent and irrelevant. The Constitution is what worked for so many years because the people, in general, were more limited by the hardships of their living... however, because the same does not apply, the old interpretations of The Constitution fall miserably short. Too many leaders that have not rightfully earned their position to criticize groups of people that have only made the necessary choices that which have ensured their survival and growth.

There are amendments and things can always be modified, but what of the groups and sects of people that are completely ignorant to the facts of the system's levels? It seems that even the greatest men in office don't understand, or don't portray an understanding effectively enough to the people that are in most need of hearing the depths. It is about more than merely waking a few up, obviously... and I say so as groggy as I am yet.

You type a lot of words but I'm not sure what your point is. Either you believe this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles or you don't. Which is it?

When did you stop beating your wife? As that example displays..Some questions are not based in any attempt at getting to "truth. As far as I know this countries founding was never a question of making it a theocracy or not. The founding principles were aimed at political freedom and establishing as close to a true democratic republic as could be envisioned, achieved and enforced in that day and condition of the evolution of the human concept of society.

 

[Iridescence]

What I have come to know is that the Founding Fathers' religions should be questioned and understood before the system(s) they put in place can be better defined. Apparently too few have done so. Personally, what has come to be known as Judeo-Christianity is what 'they' say the basics of the system are, but what Judeo-Christianity is becoming is not what it once was, either. This is not our ancestors world, for sure.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What I have come to know is that the Founding Fathers' religions should be questioned and understood before the system(s) they put in place can be better defined. Apparently too few have done so. Personally, what has come to be known as Judeo-Christianity is what 'they' say the basics of the system are, but what Judeo-Christianity is becoming is not what it once was, either. This is not our ancestors world, for sure.

Our Founding Fathers were men of faith.

• Virtually all those involved in the founding enterprise were God-fearing men in the Christian sense; most were Calvinistic Protestants.
• The Founders were deeply influenced by a biblical view of man and government. With a sober understanding of the fallenness of man, they devised a system of limited authority and checks and balances.
• The Founders understood that fear of God, moral leadership, and a righteous citizenry were necessary for their great experiment to succeed.
• Therefore, they structured a political climate that was encouraging to Christianity and accommodating to religion, rather than hostile to it.
• Protestant Christianity was the prevailing religious view for the first 150 years of our history.

However...

• The Fathers sought to set up a just society, not a Christian theocracy.
• They specifically prohibited the establishment of Christianity--or any other faith--as the religion of our nation.

 

[Iridescence]

What I have come to know is that the Founding Fathers' religions should be questioned and understood before the system(s) they put in place can be better defined. Apparently too few have done so. Personally, what has come to be known as Judeo-Christianity is what 'they' say the basics of the system are, but what Judeo-Christianity is becoming is not what it once was, either. This is not our ancestors world, for sure.

Our Founding Fathers were men of faith.

• Virtually all those involved in the founding enterprise were God-fearing men in the Christian sense; most were Calvinistic Protestants.
• The Founders were deeply influenced by a biblical view of man and government. With a sober understanding of the fallenness of man, they devised a system of limited authority and checks and balances.
• The Founders understood that fear of God, moral leadership, and a righteous citizenry were necessary for their great experiment to succeed.
• Therefore, they structured a political climate that was encouraging to Christianity and accommodating to religion, rather than hostile to it.
• Protestant Christianity was the prevailing religious view for the first 150 years of our history.

However...

• The Fathers sought to set up a just society, not a Christian theocracy.
• They specifically prohibited the establishment of Christianity--or any other faith--as the religion of our nation.

I stumble on the symbolism and the obvious difference(s) between what/who they had and had made their God vs the God of our 'up for grabs' [mis]interpreted bible of today. Yet, I am also more paleoconservative and fundamentalist than most others are. There were things at work then that allowed the strict structure and forced understanding of mainstream to be streamline... But it isn't so today. Because our ways have come to be more relaxed and our thoughts more fluid, be it evolution of the mind or else... What was said to be solid and sturdy structure is something that many recognize as not being so at all.

Were 'we' founded on Christianity? It will only come to be more and more controversial as time passes because the preservation of labels and their definitions are not being kept.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What I have come to know is that the Founding Fathers' religions should be questioned and understood before the system(s) they put in place can be better defined. Apparently too few have done so. Personally, what has come to be known as Judeo-Christianity is what 'they' say the basics of the system are, but what Judeo-Christianity is becoming is not what it once was, either. This is not our ancestors world, for sure.

Our Founding Fathers were men of faith.

• Virtually all those involved in the founding enterprise were God-fearing men in the Christian sense; most were Calvinistic Protestants.
• The Founders were deeply influenced by a biblical view of man and government. With a sober understanding of the fallenness of man, they devised a system of limited authority and checks and balances.
• The Founders understood that fear of God, moral leadership, and a righteous citizenry were necessary for their great experiment to succeed.
• Therefore, they structured a political climate that was encouraging to Christianity and accommodating to religion, rather than hostile to it.
• Protestant Christianity was the prevailing religious view for the first 150 years of our history.

However...

• The Fathers sought to set up a just society, not a Christian theocracy.
• They specifically prohibited the establishment of Christianity--or any other faith--as the religion of our nation.

I stumble on the symbolism and the obvious difference(s) between what/who they had and had made their God vs the God of our 'up for grabs' [mis]interpreted bible of today. Yet, I am also more paleoconservative and fundamentalist than most others are. There were things at work then that allowed the strict structure and forced understanding of mainstream to be streamline... But it isn't so today. Because our ways have come to be more relaxed and our thoughts more fluid, be it evolution of the mind or else... What was said to be solid and sturdy structure is something that many recognize as not being so at all.

Were 'we' founded on Christianity? It will only come to be more and more controversial as time passes because the preservation of labels and their definitions are not being kept.

What makes you think their God and our God aren't the same God?

You seem to have difficulty with one simple question. Do you beleive this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles? Given what we know of our founding fathers and their beliefs, coupled with the wrtings of historical documents, this really should be a no-brainer.