the war of 30 years

[Zebra]

several nations took part.

and the warvwas fought on German soil.

the beginning of the downfall of Germany …

1618 to 1648

 

[Zebra]

What do you know about it?
have you ever read about it?

 

[martybegan]

several nations took part.

and the warvwas fought on German soil.

the beginning of the downfall of Germany …

1618 to 1648

Considering there wasn't a Germany existing at the time, it couldn't experience a downfall.

All you had were the German States/Kingdoms/Cities and the shell of the Holy Roman Empire.

 

[Zebra]

there was a Germany then!

not as a state, but as a cultural concept.

we Germans call it Deutschland

 

[rampart]

several nations took part.

and the warvwas fought on German soil.

the beginning of the downfall of Germany …

1618 to 1648

made me think of a play by sartre, "the devil and the good lord" set in the 30 years war.

generally taught as a catholic vs protestant conflict, but actually almost a world war. staggering losses among civilian populations.

and, of course, the treaty of westphalia drew the lines of europe.

 

[martybegan]

there was a Germany then!

not as a state, but as a cultural concept.

we Germans call it Deutschland

And it wasn't an actual Nation State until 1871. Before that it was Prussia, Austria, and Bavaria along with a few hundred far smaller units.

And then they didn't invite Austria to the party even in 1871.

 

[Zebra]

in the Middle Ages, we spoke of …. tiusche zunge = German tongue = where ever German was spoken, there was Germany

 

[Zebra]

made me think of a play by sartre, "the devil and the good lord" set in the 30 years war.

generally taught as a catholic vs protestant conflict, but actually almost a world war. staggering losses among civilian populations.

and, of course, the treaty of westphalia drew the lines of europe.

it started off as a religious conflict.

But soon it was some kind of fighting everybody against everybody.

Or … soldiers against the people.

a great misery!

 

[Zebra]

it is said to be the greatest catastrophy in German history, worse than 1945

 

[Zebra]

in general one might say that Germany was an unfortunate region

 

[rampart]

it started off as a religious conflict.

But soon it was some kind of fighting everybody against everybody.

Or … soldiers against the people.

a great misery!

armies march on their stomachs, and freebooting mercenary companies as fought the 30 years war must "live off the land"

after a few seasons of having my women raped and crops hauled off i might decide life as a free booting mercenary pays better than agriculture. thus the war is sustained.

 

[Zebra]

armies march on their stomachs, and freebooting mercenary companies as fought the 30 years war must "live off the land"

after a few seasons of having my women raped and crops hauled off i might decide life as a free booting mercenary pays better than agriculture. thus the war is sustained.

so it was ..,