The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...

[ChrisL]

Are you serious? Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs? Really? You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???

Read more carefully. You're missing the context of what I am saying.

Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.

Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then? They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.

The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them. What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.

If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more. And ask yourself - was that right? Humane? Ethical? If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?

More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials. Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide. Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations. Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.

No they do not. If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself. It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace." It's NOT in their vocabulary.

Do you support ethnic cleansing?

Look how you try to use this word as if it's a weapon. Your liberal tactics are completely transparent. Lol! It's like "have you stopped beating your wife?"

FAIL bucket.

Try something else.

 

[Coyote]

Read more carefully. You're missing the context of what I am saying.

Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.

Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then? They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.

The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them. What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.

If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more. And ask yourself - was that right? Humane? Ethical? If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?

More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials. Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide. Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations. Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.

No they do not. If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself. It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace." It's NOT in their vocabulary.

Do you support ethnic cleansing?

Look how you try to use this word as if it's a weapon. Your liberal tactics are completely transparent. Lol! It's like "have you stopped beating your wife?"

FAIL bucket.

Try something else.

Do you support ethnic cleansing? It's a straightforward question.

 

[Coyote]

Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?

Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.

Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?

Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.

There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...

1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.

2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.

3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.

6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe

7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.

And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.

At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.

Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.

Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?

Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.

Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.

The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.

After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.

That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.

I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.

Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.

It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...

...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...

...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.

The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.

The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.

And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.

The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.

To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."

In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.

Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.

It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.

And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.

The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.

And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.

You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.

This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.

Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.

I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG. It's destroying innocent people. It's a human rights violation. If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.

The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".

You are wrong because in the examples you give above, those people were not lobbing bombs into the countries and attacking their citizens.

No. I'm not wrong. They are stateless. Give them a state. Stop trying to "cleanse them" from the areas they traditionally occupy. Once they have a state they will have to behave or be considered a pariah in the international community. Of course if your plan is to cleanse them from all the area that they occupy so you can take their land then that's another point entirely.

They are NOT "innocent" people. Their actions are an act of war against Israel. Israel should expel them because they are nothing but trouble, have been and will continue to be. Israel should NOT risk it's citizens safety.

They're actions might be an act of war but they are also a people under occupation and there is such a thing as legitimate resistance. Just like I can't imagine any nation allowing rockets to be lobbed into it's civilian areas without retaliation neither can I imagine a people living under occupation and just accepting it - "yes masta..you want my olive grove for your "settlers"...sure go right ahead".

Ethnic cleansing is never justifiable.

 

[Kondor3]

Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?

Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.

Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?

Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.

There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...

1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.

2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.

3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.

6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe

7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.

And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.

At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.

Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.

Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?

Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.

Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.

The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.

After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.

That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.

I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.

Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.

It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...

...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...

...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.

The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.

The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.

And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.

The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.

To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."

In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.

Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.

It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.

And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.

The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.

And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.

You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.

This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.

Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.

I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG. It's destroying innocent people. It's a human rights violation. If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.

The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".

Edited to add: Places mean something. People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation, culture and family. They aren't pawns to be "relocated" so you can move in a set of new people.

Oh, I agree that it's wrong.

It's just not as wrong as slaughtering the subjects of the discussion.

Helluvan exercise in Moral Relativism, to be sure.

But the way that usually happens is that the current crop of folks determine to take that sin upon their own shoulders so that their own people and descendants can live a better life, without the constant bickering.

Personally, I don't support it, from a moral perspective - it's damned tough to justify and I'm not up to that - but I can see how easily it could happen, in a situation in which there are no other viable options remaining, and it becomes and Us-or-Them kind of political and moral decision.

Frankly, the best option would be for the international community to relocate the Palestinians peacefully, but that doesn't seem likely either.

So, ultimately, with the Israelis already in Us-or-Them mode, they'll choose 'Us'.

Damned shame, but it's understandable, and, at this late juncture, probably nearly inevitable.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?

How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.

I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).

Do you support ethnic cleansing?

Why do you need to lie so much in order for your propaganda to work?

"Palestinians" are simply Arabs, and Arabs most definitely HAVE indulged in ethnic clensing. Palestinians DID NOT exist as a people with any sort of ethnic identity until this was created as a propaganda tool several decades ago.

They should continue to live in the land in which they were actually born, and if they should ever wish to start behaving like humans,should be able to have a sense of self determination in that land.

...which is not in the state of Israel.

 

[Coyote]

Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?

Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.

Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?

Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.

There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...

1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.

2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.

3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.

6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe

7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.

And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.

At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.

Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.

Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?

Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.

Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.

The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.

After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.

That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.

I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.

Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.

It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...

...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...

...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.

The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.

The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.

And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.

The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.

To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."

In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.

Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.

It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.

And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.

The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.

And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.

You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.

This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.

Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.

I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG. It's destroying innocent people. It's a human rights violation. If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.

The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".

Edited to add: Places mean something. People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation, culture and family. They aren't pawns to be "relocated" so you can move in a set of new people.

Oh, I agree that it's wrong.

It's just not as wrong as slaughtering the subjects of the discussion.

Helluvan exercise in Moral Relativism, to be sure.

But the way that usually happens is that the current crop of folks determine to take that sin upon their own shoulders so that their own people and descendants can live a better life, without the constant bickering.

Personally, I don't support it, from a moral perspective - it's damned tough to justify and I'm not up to that - but I can see how easily it could happen, in a situation in which there are no other viable options remaining, and it becomes and Us-or-Them kind of political and moral decision.

Frankly, the best option would be for the international community to relocate them peacefully, but that doesn't seem likely either.

So, ultimately, with the Israelis already in Us-or-Them mode, they'll choose 'Us'.

Damned shame, but it's understandable, and, at this late juncture, probably nearly inevitable.

Pos rep

 

[Dogmaphobe]

there is such a thing as legitimate resistance. .

You support intentional murder of innocent people as "legitimate resistance"

That says all about you that needs to be said.,

 

[ChrisL]

Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?

Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.

Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?

Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.

There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...

1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.

2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.

3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.

6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe

7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.

And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.

At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.

Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.

Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?

Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.

Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.

The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.

After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.

That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.

I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.

Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.

It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...

...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...

...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.

The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.

The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.

And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.

The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.

To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."

In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.

Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.

It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.

And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.

The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.

And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.

You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.

This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.

Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.

I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG. It's destroying innocent people. It's a human rights violation. If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.

The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".

You are wrong because in the examples you give above, those people were not lobbing bombs into the countries and attacking their citizens.

No. I'm not wrong. They are stateless. Give them a state. Stop trying to "cleanse them" from the areas they traditionally occupy. Once they have a state they will have to behave or be considered a pariah in the international community. Of course if your plan is to cleanse them from all the area that they occupy so you can take their land then that's another point entirely.

They are NOT "innocent" people. Their actions are an act of war against Israel. Israel should expel them because they are nothing but trouble, have been and will continue to be. Israel should NOT risk it's citizens safety.

They're actions might be an act of war but they are also a people under occupation and there is such a thing as legitimate resistance. Just like I can't imagine any nation allowing rockets to be lobbed into it's civilian areas without retaliation neither can I imagine a people living under occupation and just accepting it - "yes masta..you want my olive grove for your "settlers"...sure go right ahead".

Ethnic cleansing is never justifiable.

Israel GAVE them Gaza, and nothing changed. They have actually stated in the past that their goal is NOT for peace but to destroy the Jews!!!

Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)

 

[Coyote]

Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?

How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.

I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).

Do you support ethnic cleansing?

Why do you need to lie so much in order for your propaganda to work?

Specifically - what lie?

"Palestinians" are simply Arabs, and Arabs most definitely HAVE indulged in ethnic clensing. Palestinians DID NOT exist as a people with any sort of ethnic identity until this was created as a propaganda tool several decades ago.

Palestinians are not simply Arabs - they are mix of a lot of people who have lived in that area over a long time, Arabs being only the latest influx.

Every "people" started out at some point as "non people". It doesn't matter when they became "a people" - what matters is those people have lived there for a long long time.

The way you seem to be portraying it is that Palestine contained Jews and nothing else until the Arabs came and that simply isn't true.

They should continue to live in the land in which they were actually born, and if they should ever wish to start behaving like humans,should be able to have a sense of self determination in that land.

...which is not in the state of Israel.

So have the Palestinians recognize Israel, then take Israel's 1967 borders as a starting point - negotiate land swaps (inevitable) and settle it.

You seem to forget that the founding of Israel included a considerable amount of terrorism directed at the British and at Arabs. No one told the Jews that they needed to start behaving as "humans" before they had a right to their state.

 

[Coyote]

there is such a thing as legitimate resistance. .

You support intentional murder of innocent people as "legitimate resistance"

That says all about you that needs to be said.,

And where did I say I support that? Learn to read Dogma.

 

[Coyote]

You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?

Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.

Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?

Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.

There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...

1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.

2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.

3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.

6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe

7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.

And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.

At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.

Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.

Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?

Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.

Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.

The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.

After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.

That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.

I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.

Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.

It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...

...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...

...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.

The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.

The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.

And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.

The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.

To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."

In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.

Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.

It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.

And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.

The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.

And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.

You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.

This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.

Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.

I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG. It's destroying innocent people. It's a human rights violation. If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.

The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".

You are wrong because in the examples you give above, those people were not lobbing bombs into the countries and attacking their citizens.

No. I'm not wrong. They are stateless. Give them a state. Stop trying to "cleanse them" from the areas they traditionally occupy. Once they have a state they will have to behave or be considered a pariah in the international community. Of course if your plan is to cleanse them from all the area that they occupy so you can take their land then that's another point entirely.

They are NOT "innocent" people. Their actions are an act of war against Israel. Israel should expel them because they are nothing but trouble, have been and will continue to be. Israel should NOT risk it's citizens safety.

They're actions might be an act of war but they are also a people under occupation and there is such a thing as legitimate resistance. Just like I can't imagine any nation allowing rockets to be lobbed into it's civilian areas without retaliation neither can I imagine a people living under occupation and just accepting it - "yes masta..you want my olive grove for your "settlers"...sure go right ahead".

Ethnic cleansing is never justifiable.

Israel GAVE them Gaza, and nothing changed. They have actually stated in the past that their goal is NOT for peace but to destroy the Jews!!!

Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)

Gaza did not belong to Israel. Israel can not "give" what it does not legally own. Gaza was under Israeli occupation.

 

[montelatici]

The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine. Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine. That's just a fact.

 

[Hossfly]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?

How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.

I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).

Do you support ethnic cleansing?

Why do you need to lie so much in order for your propaganda to work?

"Palestinians" are simply Arabs, and Arabs most definitely HAVE indulged in ethnic clensing. Palestinians DID NOT exist as a people with any sort of ethnic identity until this was created as a propaganda tool several decades ago.

They should continue to live in the land in which they were actually born, and if they should ever wish to start behaving like humans,should be able to have a sense of self determination in that land.

...which is not in the state of Israel.

Not true.
----------------
The first Palestine Citizenship Order was enacted by Britain on 24 July 1925; it was the first official enactment that outlined the legal definition of a Palestinian. Its first article defined a Palestinian as a "Turkish subject habitually resident in the territory of Palestine." It defined the territorial criteria for citizenship, and appeared to be nondiscriminatory legislation, which provided granting of citizenship to an applicant, irrespective of their race, religion or language.

History of Palestinian nationality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Beelzebub]

We veterans get irked when you and your tribe quote Veterans Today, a site of anti-American communistic deadbeats who are no better than terrorist supporters.

That's how you baby killers refer to those who object to your baby killing.

 

[pbel]

The last massacre of Civilians in Gaza has turned the World against Israel...As usual, the Jewish State (or entity) has turned everyone's stomach with its collective atrocities!

It has overplayed it's hand this time...


Israel-Palestine conflict A turn in western thinking - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
...It is something of a weather vane of the global view of the conflict that when Abbas spoke he received thunderous applause, while Netanyahu addressed a solemn half empty UN chamber...

 

[Phoenall]

How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention? The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.

No, the French and Brits already had control of that "territory." They gave it to Israel, who in turn was attacked, yet beat incredible odds to win and maintain their hold on their land. Why they would ever have agreed to give up the Gaza strip to those monsters, I don't know. They should throw them all out and take it back, and never negotiate with the scum again. If they see them, they should shoot first and ask questions later. That's how you handle that kind of POS scum. They will stop with their terror tactics eventually, and then there can be peace, because we all know that Israel just wants to exist in peace.

"They gave it to Israel,"

Could you document that?

Hello? I already did in the links I provided. READ them please.

I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.

Because Britain did not have any legal ownership of the land, they were just agents acting on behalf of the LoN. It was the LoN and its successor the UN that transferred ownership. Just look on Britain as a police force sent to keep law and order and to assist the locals in setting up their own country

Yes they did the Balfour Declaration gave permission to the Jew to live in Palestine, and the Jews treated the British so bad and chased them out and so the British washed their hands of it and gave it to the LON of which the US and Truman declared it Israel. Obviously one has no rights to a land if someone had to let them live there, Britain had no intentions of giving them control of Palestine, that is why the British still remained there, till Israel blew up their embassy., LON was formed till 1920, the jews took huge advantage of the situation as they have in every country they have lived in , they try to make it their own, the revolution in Russia, Germany and now Palestine. One thing to live among others with respect , another to try and take over and become masters over others, like the Israel lobby in the US.[/QUOTE]




Try again as it gave no such thing here it is for you

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.
His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country



The arab muslims decided that they would ignore the treaties that had made previously and start fighting the Jews, or should I say massacring the Jews.

The LoN became the new owners of the land in 1919 under the surrender treaty signed with the Ottomans and split it into 3 mandates ran by Russia, France and Britain who were there just to facilitate the independence of the people that land had been given to.
The British had no say in who got what that was all down to the LoN who gave the land to two Hashemite minor princes ( Syria and Jordan ) and Iraq.
Britain had no embassy in Palestine but it did have a military headquarters in the King David Hotel, which was warned prior to the bombing that it had been targeted and to evacuate the building.

The LoN was formed in 1919 and lasted until 1946 when it was absorbed by the new United nations.



YOUR ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZI JEW HATRED HAS CERTAINLY CAME THROUGH IN THIS POST AND SHOWS THAT YOU ARE A MUSLIM

 

[ChrisL]

Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?

Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.

Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?

Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.

There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...

1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.

2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.

3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.

6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe

7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.

And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.

At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.

Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.

Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?

Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.

Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.

The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.

After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.

That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.

I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.

Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.

It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...

...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...

...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.

The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.

The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.

And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.

The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.

To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."

In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.

Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.

It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.

And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.

The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.

And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.

You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.

This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.

Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.

I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG. It's destroying innocent people. It's a human rights violation. If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.

The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".

Edited to add: Places mean something. People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation, culture and family. They aren't pawns to be "relocated" so you can move in a set of new people.

Oh, I agree that it's wrong.

It's just not as wrong as slaughtering the subjects of the discussion.

Helluvan exercise in Moral Relativism, to be sure.

But the way that usually happens is that the current crop of folks determine to take that sin upon their own shoulders so that their own people and descendants can live a better life, without the constant bickering.

Personally, I don't support it, from a moral perspective - it's damned tough to justify and I'm not up to that - but I can see how easily it could happen, in a situation in which there are no other viable options remaining, and it becomes and Us-or-Them kind of political and moral decision.

Frankly, the best option would be for the international community to relocate them peacefully, but that doesn't seem likely either.

So, ultimately, with the Israelis already in Us-or-Them mode, they'll choose 'Us'.

Damned shame, but it's understandable, and, at this late juncture, probably nearly inevitable.

Pos rep

Lol! Why did you "pos rep" him? He doesn't agree with you! Funny!

 

[ChrisL]

Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?

Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.

There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...

1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.

2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.

3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.

6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe

7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.

And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.

At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.

Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.

Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?

Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.

Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.

The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.

After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.

That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.

I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.

Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.

It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...

...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...

...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.

The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.

The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.

And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.

The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.

To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."

In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.

Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.

It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.

And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.

The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.

And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.

You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.

This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.

Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.

I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG. It's destroying innocent people. It's a human rights violation. If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.

The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".

You are wrong because in the examples you give above, those people were not lobbing bombs into the countries and attacking their citizens.

No. I'm not wrong. They are stateless. Give them a state. Stop trying to "cleanse them" from the areas they traditionally occupy. Once they have a state they will have to behave or be considered a pariah in the international community. Of course if your plan is to cleanse them from all the area that they occupy so you can take their land then that's another point entirely.

They are NOT "innocent" people. Their actions are an act of war against Israel. Israel should expel them because they are nothing but trouble, have been and will continue to be. Israel should NOT risk it's citizens safety.

They're actions might be an act of war but they are also a people under occupation and there is such a thing as legitimate resistance. Just like I can't imagine any nation allowing rockets to be lobbed into it's civilian areas without retaliation neither can I imagine a people living under occupation and just accepting it - "yes masta..you want my olive grove for your "settlers"...sure go right ahead".

Ethnic cleansing is never justifiable.

Israel GAVE them Gaza, and nothing changed. They have actually stated in the past that their goal is NOT for peace but to destroy the Jews!!!

Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)

Gaza did not belong to Israel. Israel can not "give" what it does not legally own. Gaza was under Israeli occupation.

Did you purposely ignore the links? Yes, Israel won the Gaza strip in a war. To the victors go the spoils, as it should be.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then? They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.

The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them. What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.

If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more. And ask yourself - was that right? Humane? Ethical? If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?

More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials. Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide. Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations. Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.

No they do not. If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself. It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace." It's NOT in their vocabulary.

Do you support ethnic cleansing?

Look how you try to use this word as if it's a weapon. Your liberal tactics are completely transparent. Lol! It's like "have you stopped beating your wife?"

FAIL bucket.

Try something else.

Do you support ethnic cleansing? It's a straightforward question.

You know what? Since it is the stated goal of the Hamas Charter to commit genocide, and you seem to support the people who elected MURDERERS who clearly want to kill Jews, then it is YOU who supports genocide.