This is what you get for practicing free speech.

[DOTR]

No, I say it is wrong that he was fired and I will say such consequences are what East Germans would use to ruin peoples lives. If you want this world, you had better buckle up.

Americans have, sadly enough, given up building a Western style, common law derived anglo-saxon gifted society in exchange for a central government directed one where Red Guards enforce the prohibitions. Central governments are inimitable with freedom unless watched very closely. And ours have accustomed Americans to being ruled from afar and in favor of small groups..the "factions" which Madison warned us of in Federalist 10.
"Bowling Alone" is an interesting, if incomplete, take on this. https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Community/dp/0743203046&tag=ff0d01-20
Beating the liberals nationally was the first part of the battle. But the real battle is eliminating them from our civil life...from school baords to employers.

 

[dblack]

The OP had the right to say what he said.

Has anyone disputed that? I don't think so. Indeed he's not been disabused of that right.

Yes. Some have disputed that.

What's disputed is whether his employer has the right to fire him.

Maybe we should think again about unions?

Is there a union for Islamaphobes?

 

[DOTR]

I detest unions, largely because the strike me as pointless. My firm and its competitors (all of which are huge global organizations) routinely negotiate wages and benefits with staff whom we hire, and that happens on an individual basis. Why on Earth anyone needs a union, thus needs to pay union dues, to negotiate for that which they can negotiate on their own is beyond me .

Unions are not pointless. Unions however have been hijacked by socialists and are used as a cash machine by Democrats. I am an officer in my local. Believe me the rank and file are not liberals. We constantly fight with the International over their support of Democrats. In fact the largest number of calls i field by far, no close second even, is from members irate about getting campaign literature for Democrats in their mail and threatening to quit over it.
As far as siphoning off pay..in ours we set the monthly dues equal to one hours pay. An incentive to get the wages up hopefully. I wont say I am virulently union but I find the benefits far outweigh the costs at least where I work.

 

[LoneLaugher]

The OP had the right to say what he said. That is evident.

The OP had the right to say what he said.

Has anyone disputed that? I don't think so. Indeed he's not been disabused of that right.

Yes. Some have disputed that.

Yes. Some have disputed that.

In this thread, who, pray tell?

Dude. You are arguing for no reason. The fucking OP and a couple of weirdos are bitching about their loss of freedom here. That's what the damned thread is about.

The fucking OP and a couple of weirdos are bitching about their loss of freedom here.

They haven't lost any here, there or anywhere.

I know. You are arguing a point for no reason.

 

[EverCurious]

I've said it before kids, and I'm going to say it again. If you're going to social media do /not/ do so with your real information - use a "fake" account, something that can't be traced back to you so easily. Employer's do look, and there will be consequences if you say or do anything that may or may not harm their "brand" these days. If ya'll haven't noticed people are fruit loops and they start hysterics over anything and everything, businesses are not going to entertain losses to "defend" your personal views and opinions, they're just going to can you and find someone less problematic; and that's regardless of if the boss agrees with you or doesn't give a shit about your opinion, it's simply not worth the risk to their bottom line.

I don't necessarily agree with the position, I'd like to think that folks can think whatever they want, regardless of if it's "socially acceptable" or not, but that's the way it is.

Use "anonymous" accounts for all your social media, political forums, etc. or you're just asking for trouble. :/

Or just simply focus on being a better person rather than engineering better ways to be an asshole.
IOW, grow up.

People are going to think whatever they think, you cannot stop people from being "controversial" all you do is make them dig their heels in worse. If folks want to be assholes, let em.

IOW, stop trying to control others thoughts because you cannot.

I'm not trying to control anyone. I'm simply offering advice that would help to avoid such eventualities.

Bullshit, when you talking about making them focus on "being a better person" you're trying to control peoples thoughts.

Let them be assholes and chose not to associate with them if you want - that's freedom of association.

Fine. Then don't plot revenge on one's employer. Accept the consequences of one's own actions.

Life gives you back what you put in.

I think you've mistaken me for someone else, I never said anything about "getting revenge" on the employer...

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Or just simply focus on being a better person rather than engineering better ways to be an asshole.
IOW, grow up.

People are going to think whatever they think, you cannot stop people from being "controversial" all you do is make them dig their heels in worse. If folks want to be assholes, let em.

IOW, stop trying to control others thoughts because you cannot.

I'm not trying to control anyone. I'm simply offering advice that would help to avoid such eventualities.

Bullshit, when you talking about making them focus on "being a better person" you're trying to control peoples thoughts.

Let them be assholes and chose not to associate with them if you want - that's freedom of association.

Fine. Then don't plot revenge on one's employer. Accept the consequences of one's own actions.

Life gives you back what you put in.

I think you've mistaken me for someone else, I never said anything about "getting revenge" on the employer...

Just how to be a better, more anonymous asshole.

The point is that it's his behavior that got him in trouble. I suggest he modify his behavior or accept the consequences.

 

[EverCurious]

People are going to think whatever they think, you cannot stop people from being "controversial" all you do is make them dig their heels in worse. If folks want to be assholes, let em.

IOW, stop trying to control others thoughts because you cannot.

I'm not trying to control anyone. I'm simply offering advice that would help to avoid such eventualities.

Bullshit, when you talking about making them focus on "being a better person" you're trying to control peoples thoughts.

Let them be assholes and chose not to associate with them if you want - that's freedom of association.

Fine. Then don't plot revenge on one's employer. Accept the consequences of one's own actions.

Life gives you back what you put in.

I think you've mistaken me for someone else, I never said anything about "getting revenge" on the employer...

Just how to be a better, more anonymous asshole.

The point is that it's his behavior that got him in trouble. I suggest he modify his behavior or accept the consequences.

In other words, you want to control his thoughts because /you/ don't like them. That's bullshit.

I say he can hate immigrants, it's a free country. However, one needs to understand that an employer is not going to risk their reputation and money if that kind of ideology reflects on them, they're going to can folks rather than defend them.

You have to protect yourself and keep your 'private' opinions separate from 'work' related [aka real] accounts regardless. It's not even about being an asshole or not, it's just common sense. How many times has the mob gone back through a person's social media account and pulled up something that's all of a sudden relevant? The whole #metoo movement is a good example. If the internet had existed en mass in the 80s, holy shit would people be getting taken out by stuff they'd said about sex for power and shit back then. Societies "morals" change, and these days it can change in minutes thanks to the speed of information with the internet. The internet doesn't forget like people do, it's gonna be there, connected to your name forever, and if societies "morals" change to make your statement "controversial" somewhere down the line, then you're fucked and there's nothing you can do about it.

I'm telling you folks, you must use an alias or you are asking for trouble, period. IF you've made the mistake and already used your "real" shit on some stuff, go delete it all (FB, Twitter, etc.) delete it now /before/ the winds of societies focus changes again and catches you. IF you're going to have a "personal" "real" account, only use it for like pictures of your kids for your family and shit like that, don't talk about politics.

I'm waiting for the entertainment in about ten years; lets see how many of these lefty fruit loops can't get decent jobs because of the shit they've said on FB, you watch how many of them get nailed by a lawyer for crap they've said.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I'm not trying to control anyone. I'm simply offering advice that would help to avoid such eventualities.

Bullshit, when you talking about making them focus on "being a better person" you're trying to control peoples thoughts.

Let them be assholes and chose not to associate with them if you want - that's freedom of association.

Fine. Then don't plot revenge on one's employer. Accept the consequences of one's own actions.

Life gives you back what you put in.

I think you've mistaken me for someone else, I never said anything about "getting revenge" on the employer...

Just how to be a better, more anonymous asshole.

The point is that it's his behavior that got him in trouble. I suggest he modify his behavior or accept the consequences.

In other words, you want to control his thoughts because /you/ don't like them. That's bullshit.

I say he can hate immigrants, it's a free country. However, one needs to understand that an employer is not going to risk their reputation and money if that kind of ideology reflects on them, they're going to can folks rather than defend them.

You have to protect yourself and keep your 'private' opinions separate from 'work' related [aka real] accounts regardless. It's not even about being an asshole or not, it's just common sense. How many times has the mob gone back through a person's social media account and pulled up something that's all of a sudden relevant? The whole #metoo movement is a good example. If the internet had existed en mass in the 80s, holy shit would people be getting taken out by stuff they'd said about sex for power and shit back then. Societies "morals" change, and these days it can change in minutes thanks to the speed of information with the internet. The internet doesn't forget like people do, it's gonna be there, connected to your name forever, and if societies "morals" change to make your statement "controversial" somewhere down the line, then you're fucked and there's nothing you can do about it.

I'm telling you folks, you must use an alias or you are asking for trouble, period. IF you've made the mistake and already used your "real" shit on some stuff, go delete it all (FB, Twitter, etc.) delete it now /before/ the winds of societies focus changes again and catches you. IF you're going to have a "personal" "real" account, only use it for like pictures of your kids for your family and shit like that, don't talk about politics.

I'm waiting for the entertainment in about ten years; lets see how many of these lefty fruit loops can't get decent jobs because of the shit they've said on FB, you watch how many of them get nailed by a lawyer for crap they've said.

In other words, you want to control his thoughts because /you/ don't like them

Not in any way. Advice is advice. It's not control in any way.

People need to understand that social media is a public space. Anyone can share anything with anyone else.

 

[EverCurious]

Bullshit, when you talking about making them focus on "being a better person" you're trying to control peoples thoughts.

Let them be assholes and chose not to associate with them if you want - that's freedom of association.

Fine. Then don't plot revenge on one's employer. Accept the consequences of one's own actions.

Life gives you back what you put in.

I think you've mistaken me for someone else, I never said anything about "getting revenge" on the employer...

Just how to be a better, more anonymous asshole.

The point is that it's his behavior that got him in trouble. I suggest he modify his behavior or accept the consequences.

In other words, you want to control his thoughts because /you/ don't like them. That's bullshit.

I say he can hate immigrants, it's a free country. However, one needs to understand that an employer is not going to risk their reputation and money if that kind of ideology reflects on them, they're going to can folks rather than defend them.

You have to protect yourself and keep your 'private' opinions separate from 'work' related [aka real] accounts regardless. It's not even about being an asshole or not, it's just common sense. How many times has the mob gone back through a person's social media account and pulled up something that's all of a sudden relevant? The whole #metoo movement is a good example. If the internet had existed en mass in the 80s, holy shit would people be getting taken out by stuff they'd said about sex for power and shit back then. Societies "morals" change, and these days it can change in minutes thanks to the speed of information with the internet. The internet doesn't forget like people do, it's gonna be there, connected to your name forever, and if societies "morals" change to make your statement "controversial" somewhere down the line, then you're fucked and there's nothing you can do about it.

I'm telling you folks, you must use an alias or you are asking for trouble, period. IF you've made the mistake and already used your "real" shit on some stuff, go delete it all (FB, Twitter, etc.) delete it now /before/ the winds of societies focus changes again and catches you. IF you're going to have a "personal" "real" account, only use it for like pictures of your kids for your family and shit like that, don't talk about politics.

I'm waiting for the entertainment in about ten years; lets see how many of these lefty fruit loops can't get decent jobs because of the shit they've said on FB, you watch how many of them get nailed by a lawyer for crap they've said.

In other words, you want to control his thoughts because /you/ don't like them

Not in any way. Advice is advice. It's not control in any way.

People need to understand that social media is a public space. Anyone can share anything with anyone else.

I'll agree with that.

I just don't agree with your "advice" on your "personal opinion" that not liking immigrants is "being an asshole" and that he "shouldn't be that way" [aka he should change as you put it] - You cannot force someone to change how they feel, it only makes them dig in their heels. I say let them hate, it's their right to do so and I guarantee they have their reasons for it. We're free to feel however we want, regardless of popular opinion and current social trends.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I detest unions, largely because the strike me as pointless. My firm and its competitors (all of which are huge global organizations) routinely negotiate wages and benefits with staff whom we hire, and that happens on an individual basis. Why on Earth anyone needs a union, thus needs to pay union dues, to negotiate for that which they can negotiate on their own is beyond me .

Unions are not pointless. Unions however have been hijacked by socialists and are used as a cash machine by Democrats. I am an officer in my local. Believe me the rank and file are not liberals. We constantly fight with the International over their support of Democrats. In fact the largest number of calls i field by far, no close second even, is from members irate about getting campaign literature for Democrats in their mail and threatening to quit over it.
As far as siphoning off pay..in ours we set the monthly dues equal to one hours pay. An incentive to get the wages up hopefully. I wont say I am virulently union but I find the benefits far outweigh the costs at least where I work.

As far as siphoning off pay..in ours we set the monthly dues equal to one hours pay.

I'm of no mind to refute your attention about the extent of the dues you and your members pay. I can only say that your situation is exceptional, and, quite frankly, I never was speaking with regard to exceptional situations.

The average annual cost of union dues is $400, or about two hours of pay per month. That may not seem like a lot, but I can tell you that generally what offer recipients generally ask for at my firm ranges from $10K to $20K more than what we initially offer. Almost without exception, non-principals who ask for more than our original offer end up generally getting something between $4K and $15K more, depending on how badly we want a given person and how stridently they are about obtaining what they want. Some do indeed get $20K more. (It's worth noting that not all offer-acceptors seek salary concessions. Some haggle for benefits, others like to dicker with the terms of the bonus structure that'll be applied to them. Still others bargain for a given work schedule, practice unit, work location, etc.)

In light of that, I cannot help but wonder whether employees are not overall better off without a union affiliation. I can tell you that were new staff hires to come into a union in my firm, there'd be no haggling. That may be good for some folks, but for folks who want something the union contract doesn't provide, they'd just be SOL. As things are now at my firm, there's very little that isn't open for negotiation if the staffer asks for it and it's something we can give and are willing to give, in light of the value proposition we foresee in connection with the worker in question.

Finally, yes, I understand that we can hash about over the qualitative and quantitative differences between union and non-union situations. It's also clear to me that you and like may very well just see the matter differently.


Aside:

An important thing to note is that the form of business organization most prevalent in my industry is a partnership, not a corporation. Accordingly, if there were a move to unionize, the partners would simply dissolve the partnership, let go of everyone, rehiring only those who were not among the staff who incited to unionize.


Out of curiosity, are you in a right-to-work state? Also, does your union inform workers about the de-authorization process? (And, no, I don't mean the decertification process.)​

 

[usmbguest5318]

Has anyone disputed that? I don't think so. Indeed he's not been disabused of that right.

Yes. Some have disputed that.

Yes. Some have disputed that.

In this thread, who, pray tell?

Dude. You are arguing for no reason. The fucking OP and a couple of weirdos are bitching about their loss of freedom here. That's what the damned thread is about.

The fucking OP and a couple of weirdos are bitching about their loss of freedom here.

They haven't lost any here, there or anywhere.

I know. You are arguing a point for no reason.

If that's what you think, you don't understand what I was arguing. Go back and take a look. You'll see that I what I were basically a "where the rubber hits the road" approach to discussion positive and negative liberty.

I took that approach because I don't imagine enough people here have read Kant, Mill, Berlin, Pelczynski and Gray, Carter et al, Feinberg, Rawls, Garnett, and others, so I chose to broach the topic that way rather than from the abstract philosophical angle. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think so.

 

[DOTR]

Out of curiosity, are you in a right-to-work state? Also, does your union inform workers about the de-authorization process? (And, no, I don't mean the decertification process.)​

Yes I am in a right to work state. Since we are right-to-work there is no "security" clause therefore no need for deauthorization. Our contract still includes the provision but it is abrogated by the state law and cant be enforced.
One of things this has done is set the union completely at odds with the company strangely enough. There was a time when poor work performance was addressed by the union, even before the company stepped in, as an embarrassment. You could and did threaten members with pulling their card if they didn't shape up. Open to abuse of course but it did help ensure trained and motivated workers which we thought gave extra value and made a union workforce more attractive despite the costs.
I think the last figures I saw showed our workforce is 94% union. We cant require it so all are strictly voluntary members who opt in and pay dues out of their belief in the union. We have to keep them happy and apparently we do. When a member quits he still gets the same benefits so it is saying something that we have remained union even with right to work.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Fine. Then don't plot revenge on one's employer. Accept the consequences of one's own actions.

Life gives you back what you put in.

I think you've mistaken me for someone else, I never said anything about "getting revenge" on the employer...

Just how to be a better, more anonymous asshole.

The point is that it's his behavior that got him in trouble. I suggest he modify his behavior or accept the consequences.

In other words, you want to control his thoughts because /you/ don't like them. That's bullshit.

I say he can hate immigrants, it's a free country. However, one needs to understand that an employer is not going to risk their reputation and money if that kind of ideology reflects on them, they're going to can folks rather than defend them.

You have to protect yourself and keep your 'private' opinions separate from 'work' related [aka real] accounts regardless. It's not even about being an asshole or not, it's just common sense. How many times has the mob gone back through a person's social media account and pulled up something that's all of a sudden relevant? The whole #metoo movement is a good example. If the internet had existed en mass in the 80s, holy shit would people be getting taken out by stuff they'd said about sex for power and shit back then. Societies "morals" change, and these days it can change in minutes thanks to the speed of information with the internet. The internet doesn't forget like people do, it's gonna be there, connected to your name forever, and if societies "morals" change to make your statement "controversial" somewhere down the line, then you're fucked and there's nothing you can do about it.

I'm telling you folks, you must use an alias or you are asking for trouble, period. IF you've made the mistake and already used your "real" shit on some stuff, go delete it all (FB, Twitter, etc.) delete it now /before/ the winds of societies focus changes again and catches you. IF you're going to have a "personal" "real" account, only use it for like pictures of your kids for your family and shit like that, don't talk about politics.

I'm waiting for the entertainment in about ten years; lets see how many of these lefty fruit loops can't get decent jobs because of the shit they've said on FB, you watch how many of them get nailed by a lawyer for crap they've said.

In other words, you want to control his thoughts because /you/ don't like them

Not in any way. Advice is advice. It's not control in any way.

People need to understand that social media is a public space. Anyone can share anything with anyone else.

I'll agree with that.

I just don't agree with your "advice" on your "personal opinion" that not liking immigrants is "being an asshole" and that he "shouldn't be that way" [aka he should change as you put it] - You cannot force someone to change how they feel, it only makes them dig in their heels. I say let them hate, it's their right to do so and I guarantee they have their reasons for it. We're free to feel however we want, regardless of popular opinion and current social trends.

It got him fired. He's an asshole all right. A stupid asshole.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I lost my job yesterday.
I posted on a news site that even the Muslims who don't promote violence do want a world wide caliphate and their means to get it is by out breeding non-muslims.
Facebook banned me for 24 hours.
My boss fired me.
I sell car parts for a living, or I did.
Now I have to get another job that pays a living wage and explain why I was fired.
Free speech is only for the rich.

oh, and I hit up an online lawyer brokerage center with my wrongful termination suit. Not a single one has called my number or emailed me 24 hours later.

In Calif you can get legal services if limited funds, as well as free legal action by the labor board.

Keep all and create documentation for everything.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I lost my job yesterday.
I posted on a news site that even the Muslims who don't promote violence do want a world wide caliphate and their means to get it is by out breeding non-muslims.
Facebook banned me for 24 hours.
My boss fired me.
I sell car parts for a living, or I did.
Now I have to get another job that pays a living wage and explain why I was fired.
Free speech is only for the rich.

oh, and I hit up an online lawyer brokerage center with my wrongful termination suit. Not a single one has called my number or emailed me 24 hours later.

What do you think freedom of speech is, exactly?

It's not the freedom to say whatever you want, whenever you want, in case you were wondering.

So you boss can fire you for that post according to you.

 

[DOTR]

and if societies "morals" change to make your statement "controversial" somewhere down the line, then you're fucked and there's nothing you can do about it.

I'm telling you folks, you must use an alias or you are asking for trouble, period. IF you've made the mistake and already used your "real" shit on some stuff, go delete it all (FB, Twitter, etc.) delete it now /before/ the winds of societies focus changes again and catches you. IF you're going to have a "personal" "real" account, only use it for like pictures of your kids for your family and shit like that, don't talk about politics.

Wise words. Marxists change their religion and morality often and there is only the purge waiting for those who leave a record. It is no good arguing that you were acting within cultural norms with people whose only goal in life is to destroy both the culture and the norms.
For example, a person from ten years ago who wrote extensively in favor of gay rights while rejecting gay marriage would now be subject to attack unless he publicly reforms and apologizes or is politically powerful enough to have it hushed up like the Clintons.
More so for private citizens. So I agree with you. We have fallen a long way from freedom to a state of self censorship lest we transgress some unthought of future change in norms but that is the way it works now.

 

[CowboyTed]

What where muslim customers supposed to think?

So it is true that by importing Muslims Americans lost some of their freedoms.

Importing?

How about American Citizens who are Muslims...

 

[DOTR]

Look are we forgetting the Googler who was fired for making a perfectly rational statement...men and women are different? it is wrong but dont open yourself up to it. This is why CNN goes to such lengths to dox individuals who support Trump on Reddit. The FIRST thing they do is contact the employer and apply pressure. As that becomes part of the culture the employers begin acting before any pressure is applied in the hope of avoiding the Marxists and keeping their sales.
It is censorship and it is a problem in a culture under attack from within.

 

[CowboyTed]

I lost my job yesterday.
I posted on a news site that even the Muslims who don't promote violence do want a world wide caliphate and their means to get it is by out breeding non-muslims.
Facebook banned me for 24 hours.
My boss fired me.
I sell car parts for a living, or I did.
Now I have to get another job that pays a living wage and explain why I was fired.
Free speech is only for the rich.

oh, and I hit up an online lawyer brokerage center with my wrongful termination suit. Not a single one has called my number or emailed me 24 hours later.

What do you think freedom of speech is, exactly?

It's not the freedom to say whatever you want, whenever you want, in case you were wondering.

So you boss can fire you for that post according to you.

Hey he is a sales guy and said something on FB which insulted a lot of customers...

Customers leave then a downsize is needed and many get fired....

He caused the problem and Boss fixed it... Remember the customer is always right...

 

[usmbguest5318]

Out of curiosity, are you in a right-to-work state? Also, does your union inform workers about the de-authorization process? (And, no, I don't mean the decertification process.)​

Yes I am in a right to work state. Since we are right-to-work there is no "security" clause therefore no need for deauthorization. Our contract still includes the provision but it is abrogated by the state law and cant be enforced.
One of things this has done is set the union completely at odds with the company strangely enough. There was a time when poor work performance was addressed by the union, even before the company stepped in, as an embarrassment. You could and did threaten members with pulling their card if they didn't shape up. Open to abuse of course but it did help ensure trained and motivated workers which we thought gave extra value and made a union workforce more attractive despite the costs.
I think the last figures I saw showed our workforce is 94% union. We cant require it so all are strictly voluntary members who opt in and pay dues out of their belief in the union. We have to keep them happy and apparently we do. When a member quits he still gets the same benefits so it is saying something that we have remained union even with right to work.

Yes I am in a right to work state.

TY for your direct answer.

One of things this has done is set the union completely at odds with the company strangely enough. There was a time when poor work performance was addressed by the union, even before the company stepped in, as an embarrassment. You could and did threaten members with pulling their card if they didn't shape up. Open to abuse of course but it did help ensure trained and motivated workers which we thought gave extra value and made a union workforce more attractive despite the costs.

That is a benefit when it exists.

When I ran my own firm, all our engagements had some sort of incentive "program" that, directly from the project's revenue (as opposed to the firm's standard bonus structure), gave either cash or perqs to the staff in the event they pulled together to deliver the project ahead of schedule. The performance boost my consultants generally had to elicit to obtain the "bonus" was more often, however, from the client team personnel rather than among themselves. Sometimes teams were successful at meeting the "stretch goal" and sometimes they weren't.

The perqs we offered were generally quite nice, and consisted mostly of all-expense paid long-weekend (arrive Friday; leave Monday) trips for the staff member and a significant other. The destinations varied: Nemacolin Woods, Disney World, Vegas, Amangani, use of a partner's vacation house. I once had a consultant who'd earned a trip to London with accomodations at St. Martin's Lane and Soho theatre tickets but she requested instead a "birthday weekend" in her hometown. Instead of what we'd planned to do, we set her and her husband up in a hotel suite, nanny service for the weekend, some movie tickets (because there're no performing arts theatres there) and a few fancy restaurant dinners and a hotel party room for her, her husband and a dozen friends of theirs with guest transportation to and from handled by a car service. (IIRC, it cost us a bit less than planned, but she was much happier with the alternative option, and that's what mattered most.)

That said, the problem of staff not really pulling their weight wasn't a problem, nor is it in my current firm because the base pay and bonus structure quite adequately motivates people, particularly once they start living the lifestyle the salaries we pay make possible. Only the rare individuals don't deliver "meets expectations" results, and they are let-go very quickly.

My current firm has no "routine" plan that incorporates perqs like the ones I used to include in projects. Some partners incorporate into their projects the costs of doing so on a merit basis for a few team members. So it goes in more "corporately" managed firms. That said, the firm is far larger and can offer far better "mainstream" benefits than I could...more 401k options, more health insurance options, more training options, more global assignment options, a hell of a lot more "oh, wow!" when it comes to telling non-industry folks what firm one works for (don't ask me why, but people like that sort of thing), etc.