Thomas Jefferson - Christian or Deist?

[DriftingSand]

There are many Secularists as well as some Christians who believe that Jefferson was a Deist (believer in an impersonal God but denier of the personal Savior, Jesus Christ) but is this a true conclusion? There are a number of good men and historians who say nay.

Thomas Jefferson, as we all know, was a skeptic, a man so hostile to Christianity that he scissored from his Bible all references to miracles. He was, as the Freedom From Religion Foundation tells us, “a Deist, opposed to orthodox Christianity and the supernatural.”
Read more at Thomas Jefferson: Deist or Christian?

Or was he? While Jefferson has been lionized by those who seek to drive religion from public life, the true Thomas Jefferson is anything but their friend. He was anything but irreligious, anything but an enemy to Christian faith. Our nation’s third president was, in fact, a student of Scripture who attended church regularly, and was an active member of the Anglican Church, where he served on his local vestry. He was married in church, sent his children and a nephew to a Christian school, and gave his money to support many different congregations and Christian causes.
Read more at Thomas Jefferson: Deist or Christian?

Written in the front of his personal Bible, he wrote:

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator." Thomas Jefferson

According to modern men ... Jefferson was NOT a Christian but according to Jefferson, he was. Who do you believe?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Contemporaries of Yeshua wouldn't have called themselves Christians. As I recall, the first to use the word did so in a desparaging sense. Yeshua's disciples were Jews as Yeshua was, and everything he taught. Christianity didn't exist during his lifetime and wouldn't for centuries after his death. So whoever claims they're following Yeshua's teachings is defacto Jewish.

 

[Chuckt]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/353287-george-washington-wasn-t-a-deist.html

 

[DriftingSand]

Contemporaries of Yeshua wouldn't have called themselves Christians. As I recall, the first to use the word did so in a desparaging sense. Yeshua's disciples were Jews as Yeshua was, and everything he taught. Christianity didn't exist during his lifetime and wouldn't for centuries after his death. So whoever claims they're following Yeshua's teachings is defacto Jewish.

Actually, the Bible says that contemporaries of Christ DID call themselves Christian:

1 Peter 4:16, "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."

 

[Sallow]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/353287-george-washington-wasn-t-a-deist.html

Which was why he had a cleric with him..when he was dying..

Oh wait.

He didn't.

He also liked to play cards and drink wine on Sundays..

 

[Sallow]

There are many Secularists as well as some Christians who believe that Jefferson was a Deist (believer in an impersonal God but denier of the personal Savior, Jesus Christ) but is this a true conclusion? There are a number of good men and historians who say nay.

Thomas Jefferson, as we all know, was a skeptic, a man so hostile to Christianity that he scissored from his Bible all references to miracles. He was, as the Freedom From Religion Foundation tells us, “a Deist, opposed to orthodox Christianity and the supernatural.”
Read more at Thomas Jefferson: Deist or Christian?

Or was he? While Jefferson has been lionized by those who seek to drive religion from public life, the true Thomas Jefferson is anything but their friend. He was anything but irreligious, anything but an enemy to Christian faith. Our nation’s third president was, in fact, a student of Scripture who attended church regularly, and was an active member of the Anglican Church, where he served on his local vestry. He was married in church, sent his children and a nephew to a Christian school, and gave his money to support many different congregations and Christian causes.
Read more at Thomas Jefferson: Deist or Christian?

Written in the front of his personal Bible, he wrote:

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator." Thomas Jefferson

According to modern men ... Jefferson was NOT a Christian but according to Jefferson, he was. Who do you believe?

He was a complicated fellow.

 

[PratchettFan]

What does it matter? He could have believed anything. What matters is the law, not the personal beliefs of one man.

 

[MaxGrit]

Jefferson was a Christian according to the evidences presented in The Jefferson Lies.

Great book and fun to read.

 

[DriftingSand]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/353287-george-washington-wasn-t-a-deist.html

Which was why he had a cleric with him..when he was dying..

Oh wait.

He didn't.

He also liked to play cards and drink wine on Sundays..

I'm a Christian and I play cards and used to drink like a fish. Drinking wine and playing cards doesn't a non-Christian, make.

 

[DriftingSand]

What does it matter? He could have believed anything. What matters is the law, not the personal beliefs of one man.

It'll matter come Judgement Day. What a man believes is almost always manifested into what a man does. A man with a high moral standard will generally do moral things.

 

[PratchettFan]

What does it matter? He could have believed anything. What matters is the law, not the personal beliefs of one man.

It'll matter come Judgement Day. What a man believes is almost always manifested into what a man does. A man with a high moral standard will generally do moral things.

Such as buy and sell other human beings?

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

What does it matter? He could have believed anything. What matters is the law, not the personal beliefs of one man.

It'll matter come Judgement Day. What a man believes is almost always manifested into what a man does. A man with a high moral standard will generally do moral things.

Such as buy and sell other human beings?

As your ancestors probably did as well. Even blacks bought and sold other blacks. Trace your own history back far enough, and it will not all be pretty.

Many things were done by our ancestors that we no longer accept as proper behavior.

 

[MaxGrit]

What does it matter? He could have believed anything. What matters is the law, not the personal beliefs of one man.

It'll matter come Judgement Day. What a man believes is almost always manifested into what a man does. A man with a high moral standard will generally do moral things.

Such as buy and sell other human beings?

Liberal scum, without morals, you won't understand the answer.

 

[PratchettFan]

It'll matter come Judgement Day. What a man believes is almost always manifested into what a man does. A man with a high moral standard will generally do moral things.

Such as buy and sell other human beings?

As your ancestors probably did as well. Even blacks bought and sold other blacks. Trace your own history back far enough, and it will not all be pretty.

Many things were done by our ancestors that we no longer accept as proper behavior.

No argument. However, the point being made dealt with this one, specific person whom DS suggested was "A man with a high moral standard...". This specific man was a slave owner. Would you consider that a high moral standard?

 

[PratchettFan]

It'll matter come Judgement Day. What a man believes is almost always manifested into what a man does. A man with a high moral standard will generally do moral things.

Such as buy and sell other human beings?

Liberal scum, without morals, you won't understand the answer.

In your case, I think I must bow to the philosophy of Ron White.

 

[DriftingSand]

What does it matter? He could have believed anything. What matters is the law, not the personal beliefs of one man.

It'll matter come Judgement Day. What a man believes is almost always manifested into what a man does. A man with a high moral standard will generally do moral things.

Such as buy and sell other human beings?

He renounced the practice in his old age. His granddaughter was outspokenly opposed to slavery and Grandpa Jefferson sent a letter to her agreeing with her. Nevertheless, the vast majority of his actions were moral ones.

 

[DriftingSand]

It'll matter come Judgement Day. What a man believes is almost always manifested into what a man does. A man with a high moral standard will generally do moral things.

Such as buy and sell other human beings?

As your ancestors probably did as well. Even blacks bought and sold other blacks. Trace your own history back far enough, and it will not all be pretty.

Many things were done by our ancestors that we no longer accept as proper behavior.

My earliest American ancestor was brought to America in the mid-1600s as a white slave. Often times, folks who were destitute would willingly go into slavery as a means to survive. Many were able to pay their way out of slavery over time (including black slaves).

But it's a fact that blacks sold their brethren into slavery and that some American blacks were slave owners as well.

 

[PratchettFan]

It'll matter come Judgement Day. What a man believes is almost always manifested into what a man does. A man with a high moral standard will generally do moral things.

Such as buy and sell other human beings?

He renounced the practice in his old age. His granddaughter was outspokenly opposed to slavery and Grandpa Jefferson sent a letter to her agreeing with her. Nevertheless, the vast majority of his actions were moral ones.

That is up for dispute. As I said, what he believed does not matter. Whether all of his actions were moral, does not matter. We are not based upon the beliefs on any one man, or even a group of me. We are based upon laws, which were written by those men but modified by each new generation. It doesn't matter a whit what he was.

 

[norwegen]

It'll matter come Judgement Day. What a man believes is almost always manifested into what a man does. A man with a high moral standard will generally do moral things.

Such as buy and sell other human beings?

He renounced the practice in his old age. His granddaughter was outspokenly opposed to slavery and Grandpa Jefferson sent a letter to her agreeing with her. Nevertheless, the vast majority of his actions were moral ones.

In Jefferson's day, slave ownership wasn't really immoral. Americans generally accepted the institution, though among them, a few (like the founders) were beginning to note conflict between slavery and our radical Whig ideas of liberty and equality.

 

[Derideo_Te]

According to modern men ... Jefferson was NOT a Christian but according to Jefferson, he was. Who do you believe?

None of the above!

If Jefferson was a Christian then that is a personal matter for him alone.

Today the internet is rife with alleged quotations from the Founding Fathers to the point where I no longer trust any quote from a biased source.

Instead I look to the motivations.

Why is it so important that Jefferson was a Christian?

As far as I am concerned his legacy is not his religious belief at all. It was what he passed down to us in the Constitution.

So when I see those who are trying to co-opt Jefferson as being a "Christian" it makes me question what they seek to gain by making this claim?

Is their motive pure or are they seeking legitimacy for something else that they are doing?

Jefferson made it abundantly clear that he perceived a "wall of separation between church and state" so we should respect that when it comes to his legacy. Jefferson gave us the Constitution and his legacy should not be hijacked by those with a religious agenda in my opinion.* And for the record, I have every reason to think that Jefferson would agree with my opinion.

*Disclaimer: I am not accusing the OP of having any agenda. This is just my own personal position when it comes to the FF's and their legacies.