Time to declare War on Islam

[MikeK]

Wrong.

We are not at ‘war’ with Islam – the notion is ignorant, bigoted stupidity.

While it's true we are not presently engaged in a declared war with Islam, how many more terrorist attacks by Islamic fanatics will it take to provoke a motivated coalition of American, European, Scandinavian and possibly Russian military forces to move against the Muslim world in what will amount to the Tenth Crusade?

Rules and the sense of moral order tend to give way to the power of retributive rage. I'm recalling what we did to Japanese Americans in 1941 -- and those people did absolutely nothing.

Individuals commit acts of terror, not religions.

And this sort of ignorance, hate, bigotry, and stupidity plays right into the hands of terrorists.

How would you suggest the Western world respond to a progression of terrorist attacks like 9/11 and the recent Nice massacre? All it will take is a few of those and a President like Donald Trump to push the button. It might not occur as a declared war but the effect will be quite the same.

 

[koshergrl]

After all, they committed the first tens of thousands of attacks...

Not declaration of war, but prohibition of Islam in western countries!
All mosques shall be closed, all Muslims shall became a choice:

Conversation to Christianity or Ticket to the country of origin.

so the constitution doesn't matter, eh?

you going to start another inquisition? miss the old christian religion?

The inquisition was a STATE endeavor.

I do wish ppl who have no grasp.of history wouldn't expose their.ignorance everybchance they get by saying stupid shit that EXPOSES THEIR IGNORANCE.
Spanish Inquisition | Spanish history [1478-1834]

 

[jillian]

After all, they committed the first tens of thousands of attacks...

Not declaration of war, but prohibition of Islam in western countries!
All mosques shall be closed, all Muslims shall became a choice:

Conversation to Christianity or Ticket to the country of origin.

so the constitution doesn't matter, eh?

you going to start another inquisition? miss the old christian religion?

The inquisition was a STATE endeavor.

that doesn't even make sense.

 

[sealybobo]

After all, they committed the first tens of thousands of attacks...

No reason to change the name of the war we are already in into something that's going to divide us from our Muslim friends. Why would you want to make Muslim friends enemies?

You want ww3?

 

[flacaltenn]

OR -- it could simply be failure to adapt to Western law and justice. It's a damning statistic. SOMETHING is very very wrong. I'm a fan of looking at the desparate effects of contact with the justice for the poor. There are issues there. But THIS --- is simply failure to adjust.

How do you know it is simply a failure to adjust rather than any other aspects? Are you simply assuming that is the case because they are Muslim? Many may have been there for generations.

What IS different in France is that many Muslims suffer from job discrimmination, remain relegated to low income jobs, are often ghettoized (both by choice and by French society) suffer higher rates of unemployment. Crime is more often driven by economic circumstances then by racial ones.

Those stats are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. That's why. 2nd gen goes back to what? the 80s? or 70s?
They were BROUGHT IN for labor. Now given the socialist stupidity of the French were nobody really works a real 40 hour job and if they do, it's mostly at the employee's pace -- then it's STILL a monumental miscalc of how many foreign workers that France could absorb. --- IF it's economic.

Don't know -- but I intend to find out. Because HOWEVER that number came about -- the USA should NEVER make the mistakes leading up to that.

The US is completely different. The problem with bringing in guest workers is there is no prospect of citizenship, and a separation.

Why is that "a problem"? They are Guest workers. Not Americans to be. For the most part they send money HOME to their families. It's a deal THEY created and wanted.

We witnessed American businesses firing American citizens but only after they trained their Mexican replacements. Time to put a halt to even guest workers until it is proven that Americans don't want those jobs. If a person comes to America for a job, prove his intent by applying the rigid standards for citizenship.

The power to stop Mexican immigration TOMORROW -- WITHOUT a wall already exists. Nobody wants to enforce the law that requires PROOF of immigration status in order to work. Wonder why? But Yeah. You COULD control the hit to US workers by issuing only the amount of work permits that the states would individually allow.

Some deal with Arab immigration. They need to be coming as valued workers OR as a BONIFIDE rescue of folks that supported us in THEIR countries when we were in conflict there.

 

[flacaltenn]

Declaring "war on Islam" is crazy. We declared war on Arab culture in the MId-East when we decided to act Imperially and take down the dick-taters that made the Mid East habitable. Left GAPING VOIDS of power where they could kill EACH OTHER. Totally SNAFU.. BOTH parties bought into this. Hillary Clinton was a General in the war on Arab culture. And NOW -- she wants to "rescue" the refugees from that policy. Created the problem, ignored the fallout and now wants America to become a host for a warped, psychotic culture.

It's not the RELIGION -- it's the culture of suppression, violence, and nepotism that these folks live under. But it is not OUR JOB to fix that. We broke it worse than it was. Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Iraq, Afghan, Syria --- all destabilized.

The Euros have a diff problem. Considered Arabs to be their "Mexicans" for decades. And then ACCOMMODATED them to continue to their "old country" ways. Encouraged ghettoization of immigrants from those zones.

We just need to not make the SAME mistakes. Create safe zones OVER THERE. Allow the dictators to resume their control.. When there is a semblance of order -- THEN rescue the ones unwilling to live under that crap..

That's our biggest delusion, one of which Bush was under the influence, that we could peddle freedom and democracy to people who have never known it and don't want it. The reason oppression of every kind, including religious, remains intact for centuries at a time is because it's so POPULAR. People like to be free, but more like to be ruled over. Consider how this country gained its independence through a minority of people who supported the cause, most people siding with Britain.

We can't change that culture, we can only protect ourselves from that culture coming here and polluting Western society.

And that's the key point. Religions of all flavors go rogue and brutal when a tryrannical govt USES that religion, and codifies it into civil law. It's the CULTURE that determine the threat. Which is why the USA with it's fairly established Muslim fraction is NOT yet in turmoil..

Heard on CNN last night. 10% of France is Muslim. The BULK 1st or 2nd generation Mid-East Arab. Their JAILS are 70% Muslim inmates. Now THAT'S a badge of failure. If we can understand how that happened, the USA does NOT need a war to protect itself. Don't ACCOMMODATE that sick culture. And Islam will never be a threat here.

If there jails are truly 70% muslim...then I have to wonder if other factors are at play (similar to incarceration rates for blacks here) - racial and ethnic bits and income inequalities. In France, there is a significant ghettoization of Muslims and far less upward mobility.

Just for the record -- I tracked down that comment that I heard about 70% of inmates in French jails are Muslim. Not only is that astonishingly TRUE -- but the situation is worst that I expected. The CAUSES of incarceration CLEARLY indicate it's due to importation of malignant Arab culture and failure to assimilate.

I'll be posting a thread in Cur Events on the material.. We do NOT want to repeat these MONUMENTAL failures of the French..

 

[MikeK]

what would a 'war on islam' entail?

It would take a while to formulate a full strategy but a good place to begin would be to commence construction of massive concentration camps. Israelis could be brought in to manage them.

(How's that for irony?)

 

[flacaltenn]

Christianity is not native either...it's an invasive species.

Sounds like some good ole fashion bigotry.

Which...calling Islam non native or calling Christianity non native?

Either. Carrying that out to a conclusion that neither Islam or Christianity is "native" to ANYWHERE --- just isn't helpful.

Obama refuses to say that the US is primarily a Christian nation whole most of us agree it is while at the same time allowing a freedom of religion or from religion. When the religion of a person coming into our nation is so contrary to our culture and beliefs, it makes life more difficult for any of them to harmonize with US native citizens. Why do they bother to come to a country that is so contrary to their own?

If you remember -- Christians came HERE to escape other Christians largely. Look at the states founded on DIFFERENT factions of Christianity. Was NOT one happy unified Christian nation. And thank God -- most of the founders took a GENERIC view of religion and Christianity preferring to be largely guided by Natural Law and their own consciences.

 

[Montrovant]

Then calling for a ban on firearms is just as pointless since substantially more people are killed by knives.

Just wanted to quickly address this. I wonder if you meant a ban on assault weapons? More people are murdered by firearms than by knives or cutting instruments by a substantial margin.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

 

[flacaltenn]

Islam can be practiced perfectly peacefully by "western leaning" tolerant cultures.

I'm glad you use the term "perfectly peacefully" in lieu of current events. It shows how deluded you and your ilk are.

We've had large Muslim communities for a hundred years. And those older generation American Muslims are a LOWER threat to you than your politicians. The INTOLERANCE and violence is incalcated in the psyches of people coming from current Arab cultures. They EXPECT not to be offended. TO be able to experience the justice system of a hell-hole like Sudan or Somalia. Because they were raised to believe that EVERYTHING western is evil. That's NOT solely an Islamic teaching. That's CULTURE. You practice Islam in a tolerant western society -- no problem.

You know what. If the Muslims of the 40's, 50's tried this sh**. It would've been over. It wouldn't of took. So, there's culpability of our society's "tolerance" that you embrace. And being offended is absolutely no excuse for violence. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE. And you're admitting their hatred that they bring; so, do the math.

There is a massive culture shock. It's a serious issue. And maybe we need the Miley Cyrus test to see who are likely to adapt. When you have a large EXISTING Muslim community -- it's pretty much up to THEM to help with the assimilation. But in Europe --- the rates were just WAY to high for ANY organization to help with the adjustments. You ever been to Jordan or Egypt? They are relatively TAME compared where a lot of these refugees are coming from -- but even THERE -- you'd get an IMMEDIATE feeling for how alien the culture is.

Responsibility for assimilation is with both the host country and the immigrant, both need to facilitate it and that is the difference between countries where it's successful and countries where it isn't. Also, the thing with guest workers, there is no incentive, they are there just to work, are mostly men, live in crowded dorm type conditions and are distinctly second class. No incentive, no investment.

I don't think it's the Government responsibility at ALL to assure assimilation. That's largely a function for the EXISTING Muslim community. If they come over as secular already -- (rare) -- they are on their own. What "investment" are you talking about? Do Arab countries have "assimilation assistance" for the enormous number of "guest workers" that they use?

Govt SUCKS at one on one counseling. They MIGHT need to take into account "Likelihood" of assimilation as a factor in SETTING quotas from these problem areas.

 

[koshergrl]

it isn't the job of the govt to assimilate...it's the job if the govt to reject those who show no interest in it.

 

[MikeK]

One imam in all of tokyo. It is.illegal to.proselytyze islam. Companies won't hire muslims, and muslims are actively discouraged from seeking citizenship. AND Japan doesn't apologize to them for it. They think they're animals, that their culture sucks dick, and they reject them wholeheartedly and unapologetically.

I'm surprised the Japanese allow any Muslim presence at all in their country. I suspect the reason for any existing Muslim presence is residual American influence.

 

[flacaltenn]

OR -- it could simply be failure to adapt to Western law and justice. It's a damning statistic. SOMETHING is very very wrong. I'm a fan of looking at the desparate effects of contact with the justice for the poor. There are issues there. But THIS --- is simply failure to adjust.

How do you know it is simply a failure to adjust rather than any other aspects? Are you simply assuming that is the case because they are Muslim? Many may have been there for generations.

What IS different in France is that many Muslims suffer from job discrimmination, remain relegated to low income jobs, are often ghettoized (both by choice and by French society) suffer higher rates of unemployment. Crime is more often driven by economic circumstances then by racial ones.

Those stats are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. That's why. 2nd gen goes back to what? the 80s? or 70s?
They were BROUGHT IN for labor. Now given the socialist stupidity of the French were nobody really works a real 40 hour job and if they do, it's mostly at the employee's pace -- then it's STILL a monumental miscalc of how many foreign workers that France could absorb. --- IF it's economic.

Don't know -- but I intend to find out. Because HOWEVER that number came about -- the USA should NEVER make the mistakes leading up to that.

The US is completely different. The problem with bringing in guest workers is there is no prospect of citizenship, and a separation.

Why is that "a problem"? They are Guest workers. Not Americans to be. For the most part they send money HOME to their families. It's a deal THEY created and wanted.

I think the guest workers situation is different here then in europe.

Most of Euro Muslim population are permanent residents. Raising families. NOT "guest workers" like Mexicans are here. (If they were properly documented and classified). Everything I've read says that assimilation is getting increasingly difficult as they tend to live together in isolated enclaves or public housing.

In the meantime here -- 2nd or 3rd gen Mexicans (of illegal parents) are NOT GONNA BE mowing your yard or emptying your bed pan. THEY are gonna be American doctors, lawyers, scientists, politicians.

 

[flacaltenn]

Well, there are over 2 billion Muslims in the world. Which ones are we at war with?

Reclassify Islam as a seditious cult and ban it's practice on American soil. They'll leave all by their onsies.

The Constitution is on display in Washington DC. You can bring a portable shredder and a hammer to get through the glass case, and your dream can come true!

Sedition isn't a protected activity.

Established American Muslims are not a threat. They understand America and tolerance and freedom. It's the IMPORTS that we have to scrutinized and probably limit.

 

[flacaltenn]

After all, they committed the first tens of thousands of attacks...

Not declaration of war, but prohibition of Islam in western countries!
All mosques shall be closed, all Muslims shall became a choice:

Conversation to Christianity or Ticket to the country of origin.

so the constitution doesn't matter, eh?

you going to start another inquisition? miss the old christian religion?

The inquisition was a STATE endeavor.

that doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does. When the state CONDONES a particular religion and rolls it's power into the Church is where BOTH the Inquisition and the Crusades sprang from.. Without State sanction -- what kind of jails and soldiers and henchmen did the CHURCH have?

It's the same deal today with tyrannical Theocratic Arab governments. About 20 who run by Sharia law OR have adopted much of Sharia into their legal code. That's why those daily barbaric executions, amputations and stonings are so widespread. And why the GOVTs in that region all sponsor proxy armies to go fight EACH other over tribal and religious differences.

It's when the STATE gets involved -- that religions become malignant..

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh, and neither were Christians, and both continue to be the perfect neighbors, don't you think?

Red herring but since you asked: I'm not a Christian but I'm happy to have them as neighbors.

Red herring because...... because people want to attack Islam without looking around themselves?

 

[jillian]

After all, they committed the first tens of thousands of attacks...

Not declaration of war, but prohibition of Islam in western countries!
All mosques shall be closed, all Muslims shall became a choice:

Conversation to Christianity or Ticket to the country of origin.

so the constitution doesn't matter, eh?

you going to start another inquisition? miss the old christian religion?

The inquisition was a STATE endeavor.

that doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does. When the state CONDONES a particular religion and rolls it's power into the Church is where BOTH the Inquisition and the Crusades sprang from.. Without State sanction -- what kind of jails and soldiers and henchmen did the CHURCH have?

It's the same deal today with tyrannical Theocratic Arab governments. About 20 who run by Sharia law OR have adopted much of Sharia into their legal code. That's why those daily barbaric executions, amputations and stonings are so widespread. And why the GOVTs in that region all sponsor proxy armies to go fight EACH other over tribal and religious differences.

It's when the STATE gets involved -- that religions become malignant..

and how does that differ from the demands of the bigots that all muslims be forcefully converted? whose weight do you think goes behind that? the government.

they don't want the state to stay out of government. they do want christianity favored.

the state needs to stay out of religion. and religion needs to stay out of government. just like the 1st amendment contemplated.

so i ask again...what the hell was she talking about?

 

[dannyboys]

A good case can be made for removing Islam's religious status/definition. I suggest we look into doing just that.

Islam is NOT a religion by any definition.
It's no different than Bob Jones's insanity or Charles Manson or David Corish.
ALL based on a cult figure who demands their followers to commit the most sick insane acts in 'his name'.
Time soon to scrub the earth of these vermin forever.
The joyous thing is that day will happen in my lifetime........and I've GOT CABLE to watch it!

Islam is a religion, has been a world religion for over a thousand years. It's not going to suddenly become a non-religion because a bunch of jumped-up johnny-come-latelies decide thatit's not because they they hate Muslims.

I assume any 'religion' is based on acknowledging some higher power which moves the adherents in some sort of positive life affirming continuum.
Buy I guess by strict definition those who worship satan would disagree.
I don't believe any GOD would have ever signed off on the evil violent death-cult misogynist 'religion' that is islam.

 

[dannyboys]

what would a 'war on islam' entail?

Banning the practice of Islam on free soil, banning sharia and bulldozing every Islamic military post/aka mosque, into the earth. Won't happen because we don't have the backbone to protect our citizens. What a shame.

Won't happen because we're a nation built on a foundation of rights, freedoms, and laws.

So now you'll tell us exactly what "rights", "freedoms" and "laws" Islam requires its followers to follow on pain of death BTW.
I know! "Freedom of religion' right? NO?
And you're fine with what followers of islam are demanding the US should look like in a decade?

 

[dannyboys]

what would a 'war on islam' entail?

Banning the practice of Islam on free soil, banning sharia and bulldozing every Islamic military post/aka mosque, into the earth. Won't happen because we don't have the backbone to protect our citizens. What a shame.

and you're okay with abandoning the constitution?

The Constitution can be amended without being abandoned.

Not when you are talking about fundamental rights.

Does islam guarantee "Freedom of Religion"???????