To those calling Snowden a coward...

[TemplarKormac]

This topic is mainly directed at those who applaud what Snowden did, but want him to face justice. What single bit of good would turning himself in do? Do you think he will be given a fair trial, or will it be a kangaroo court? Is martyrdom more beneficial than him remaining free? If so, who is it more beneficial to? It might make you feel good, but what about the man who may spend the rest of his life in prison? I can't think of a single benefit of Snowden turning himself in.

I know this thread is specifically directed at me, so I will answer you.

Snowden did a great service for the American people. However, he runs for his life like a scared mobster who snitched on his Capo. The founders openly defied the King of England, to his face, even after he tried destroying them, they prevailed nonetheless. So if Snowden is to be a hero, he needs to act like one. He needs to make his stand where it counts, not in communist countries like Venezuela.

Have I made myself more clear?

It wasn't directed specifically at you, but it it makes you feel better you are one of the people I thought of.

As far as our founders go, this isn't even remotely a similar situation. Our few founders didn't stand up to the King of England by themselves, let alone to his face. They had an army behind them, and the King was thousands of miles away. In fact their first act of defiance was in the dead of night, dressed as Native Americans. Let's not forget the help we received from the French. Our founders weren't staring down the most powerful intelligence agency in the world while shackled up in a courtroom.

Ah well, I remember mentioning it last night.

But they were staring down one of the most predominant military powers in the world at that time. So this is how I liken what Snowden should have done to what the founders did. It wouldn't have mattered if the King was thousands of miles away, he had the power to dole out his wrath by edicts alone, on the colonies themselves, or on individuals. No it isn't a similar situation, admittedly, because one stood up and the other ran away.

 

[blackhawk]

It would be like a Founding Father walking up to the King of England, admitting guilt, and asking for a trial. The fact that our Founding Fathers won in the end doesn't make them any less guilty of treason.

All I can tell you is actions have consequences Snowden knew this or should have if he does not want to have to face those consequences so be it but don't then gripe about how you are being treated I know personal responsibility is going the way of the dodo but it's something I still believe in if he wants to come here and take that responsibility I will have far more respect for him if not I have no sympathy for him. That is my view on the subject of Snowden people can agree or disagree it won't change my opinion.

Do you consider our Founding Fathers any less treasonous? They definitely didn't turn themselves in to face the consequences. does the fact that they won in the end make them any less guilty of treason than Snowden?

No by the definition of British law at the time they committed treason and if they had been caught they would have gone to trial and in all likelihood been executed now if Snowden was a member of a group from a U.S. colony trying to declare independence from America I might feel different about him but he's not so I don't and my opinion on this remains unchanged.

 

[Wyatt earp]

This topic is mainly directed at those who applaud what Snowden did, but want him to face justice. What single bit of good would turning himself in do? Do you think he will be given a fair trial, or will it be a kangaroo court? Is martyrdom more beneficial than him remaining free? If so, who is it more beneficial to? It might make you feel good, but what about the man who may spend the rest of his life in prison? I can't think of a single benefit of Snowden turning himself in.

Snowden’s act of alleged espionage is what was cowardly, not necessarily his flight from justice.

Whether he turns himself in or not really isn’t the issue.

What did he do? links please.... I want to know

 

[Wyatt earp]

provvide links dare you.......you cant.

 

[Katzndogz]

Snowden did the ultimate treasonous act to a dictator. He spoke truth to power. He told us just how abusive this government is.

 

[Wyatt earp]

snowden is the greatest hero of Americas 21st century he did something like no guy could...he had the balls to bail on his hot girlfriend and tell us the United States of America was spying on us...if he did more provide a link please

 

[Lumpy 1]

Obama/Democrats in power release classified information to the liberal press all the time that puts Americans in danger, undermines their political opponents and makes them appear in a good light ... think Osama Bin Laden... who do you think the unidentified sources are?

Democrat outrage is totally hypocritical on this issue.

 

[Old Rocks]

Good God, you damned fools were not aware that we have been spyed on by the government ever since Bush proclaimed FISA was not valid. No excuse for Obama to continue to do the same, but you are the same people that called fellows like me that said it was wrong under Bush traitors, and supporters of terrorism. Your hypocrasy is truly amazing.

Were Snowden a patriot, he would have take the Thoreu route.

 

[Katzndogz]

We have two dead reporters, a dead medical examiner, a reporter charged with espionage and a missing colonel. You are going to bring up BUSH! Astounding. Simply astounding.

 

[aaronleland]

Good God, you damned fools were not aware that we have been spyed on by the government ever since Bush proclaimed FISA was not valid. No excuse for Obama to continue to do the same, but you are the same people that called fellows like me that said it was wrong under Bush traitors, and supporters of terrorism. Your hypocrasy is truly amazing.

Were Snowden a patriot, he would have take the Thoreu route.

I agree that most of the neo-cons on this board were silent while the Bush administration was spying on American citizens. They enabled this behavior from our government, but now that a Democrat is in the White House they are calling for his head. But the same can be said for those Democrats who supported Manning, but condemn Edward Snowden.

 

[g5000]

Daniel Ellsberg was facing over a century of prison time. He did not run.

 

[Missourian]

This topic is mainly directed at those who applaud what Snowden did, but want him to face justice. What single bit of good would turning himself in do? Do you think he will be given a fair trial, or will it be a kangaroo court? Is martyrdom more beneficial than him remaining free? If so, who is it more beneficial to? It might make you feel good, but what about the man who may spend the rest of his life in prison? I can't think of a single benefit of Snowden turning himself in.

What good would come of his arrest and trial? We would show the world a fair trial, notwithstanding your "kangaroo court" comment. In his trial he could testify and explain his motivation - maybe live on TV - and prove to the world he is not a coward, but a patriot. Of course the prosecutor will have a different opinion and a jury would decide.

Snowden won't be permitted a public trial.

The government will invoke the Classified Information Procedures Act, claiming that Snowden has release classified information and a Public Trial will give him a venue to do more of the same.

I've had a security clearence...CIPA was explained in no uncertain terms.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm02054.htm

 

[Katzndogz]

This topic is mainly directed at those who applaud what Snowden did, but want him to face justice. What single bit of good would turning himself in do? Do you think he will be given a fair trial, or will it be a kangaroo court? Is martyrdom more beneficial than him remaining free? If so, who is it more beneficial to? It might make you feel good, but what about the man who may spend the rest of his life in prison? I can't think of a single benefit of Snowden turning himself in.

What good would come of his arrest and trial? We would show the world a fair trial, notwithstanding your "kangaroo court" comment. In his trial he could testify and explain his motivation - maybe live on TV - and prove to the world he is not a coward, but a patriot. Of course the prosecutor will have a different opinion and a jury would decide.

If Snowden were brought here he would not have a fair trial or any trial. He would have an accident. He would get the same fair trial as an American citizen that alAwlaki, another American citizen got. The same fair trial that al Awlaki's 16 year old son got.

The day of fair trials in America for political prisoners is done.

 

[rightwinger]

This topic is mainly directed at those who applaud what Snowden did, but want him to face justice. What single bit of good would turning himself in do? Do you think he will be given a fair trial, or will it be a kangaroo court? Is martyrdom more beneficial than him remaining free? If so, who is it more beneficial to? It might make you feel good, but what about the man who may spend the rest of his life in prison? I can't think of a single benefit of Snowden turning himself in.

What good would come of his arrest and trial? We would show the world a fair trial, notwithstanding your "kangaroo court" comment. In his trial he could testify and explain his motivation - maybe live on TV - and prove to the world he is not a coward, but a patriot. Of course the prosecutor will have a different opinion and a jury would decide.

If Snowden were brought here he would not have a fair trial or any trial. He would have an accident. He would get the same fair trial as an American citizen that alAwlaki, another American citizen got. The same fair trial that al Awlaki's 16 year old son got.

The day of fair trials in America for political prisoners is done.

LOL.......tell us about those drones again

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This topic is mainly directed at those who applaud what Snowden did, but want him to face justice. What single bit of good would turning himself in do? Do you think he will be given a fair trial, or will it be a kangaroo court? Is martyrdom more beneficial than him remaining free? If so, who is it more beneficial to? It might make you feel good, but what about the man who may spend the rest of his life in prison? I can't think of a single benefit of Snowden turning himself in.

IF he broke the law he must face justice. He nor you get to decide if what he did was wrong in the eyes of the law, only a jury does. Like it or not that's how we roll and until you change the laws he must abide by them just like you or me.

And for the record HE IS A COWARD. I was facing 5 to 15 years in prisin AFTER conviction and the judge continued my bail despite conviction while I waited for an open bed. At 17 I didn't run like a coward. At 30 (?) Snowden did.

He is a pussy.

Why does it take courage to "do the right thing" if you're going to run from the possible outcome of your actions?

 

[Missourian]

What good is the Judiciary, when they are denied access to all the facts?

This is from February 2013...

NEW YORK -- The Supreme Court's Tuesday ruling in a case about warrantless wiretapping, Clapper v. Amnesty International USA, could have larger consequences for accountability and post-9/11 counterterrorism measures, including a lawsuit over the government's power to indefinitely detain terrorist suspects.


The court's 5-4 decision held that the journalists and human rights advocates challenging the warrantless wiretapping program first set up under President George W. Bush's administration did not have standing. Justice Samuel Alito wrote that the parties' fear of being surveilled when the U.S. government targets foreign terrorists was "highly speculative."



Supreme Court's Clapper v. Amnesty International Decision Could Affect Indefinite Detention Lawsuit


​

 

[Missourian]

What good is the Judiciary, when they are denied access to all the facts?

This is from February 2013...

NEW YORK -- The Supreme Court's Tuesday ruling in a case about warrantless wiretapping, Clapper v. Amnesty International USA, could have larger consequences for accountability and post-9/11 counterterrorism measures, including a lawsuit over the government's power to indefinitely detain terrorist suspects.


The court's 5-4 decision held that the journalists and human rights advocates challenging the warrantless wiretapping program first set up under President George W. Bush's administration did not have standing. Justice Samuel Alito wrote that the parties' fear of being surveilled when the U.S. government targets foreign terrorists was "highly speculative."



Supreme Court's Clapper v. Amnesty International Decision Could Affect Indefinite Detention Lawsuit


​

Now Hedges v. Obama will be heard with at least more facts, not all facts, but more...thanks to Snowden.

 

[S.J.]

He should not turn himself in, that would be stupid. He may not be a hero but what he did, needed to be done and I'm glad he blew the whistle on the tyrant in the W.H.

 

[laughinReaper]

This topic is mainly directed at those who applaud what Snowden did, but want him to face justice. What single bit of good would turning himself in do? Do you think he will be given a fair trial, or will it be a kangaroo court? Is martyrdom more beneficial than him remaining free? If so, who is it more beneficial to? It might make you feel good, but what about the man who may spend the rest of his life in prison? I can't think of a single benefit of Snowden turning himself in.

Whew! I didn't call him a coward, I called him a traitor. We good?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

He should not turn himself in, that would be stupid. He may not be a hero but what he did, needed to be done and I'm glad he blew the whistle on the tyrant in the W.H.

Don't kid yourself. Most of the tools in DC had no problem with this shit no matter which side they were on. Spying didn't start with Obama and it wont end with him.