To those saying flipping burgers or dunking fries deserves 15.00 per hour...

[depotoo]

He taught you a valuable lesson and it also taught you to appreciate the value of a dollar.

Multi billion dollar corporations in danger if their lowest paid workers get their first raise in ten years

Thank God they have Republicans looking out for them

How curious!

I never expected anyone to be "looking out for me". I learned early that if I wanted something, I needed to work to earn it.

Many of the "cool" kids in school wore Gant shirts. I wore shirts from Woolworth or wherever. I told my folks I wanted a Gant shirt. Dad said fine, get a job and you can buy one. A friend of mine had a newspaper route and he helped me get a route delivering the Miami News in the afternoon. A few weeks later I was able to buy my very own Gant shirt. I was so proud of that shirt. That's personal responsibility.

 

[danielpalos]

No...not our social programs
What led to our love affair with debt was supply side economics

Really? Well if you'd like, I'll show you the pie of our budget, and then you show me what part of that pie had to do with anything supply side. Deal?

Good

Start with the "revenue" portion

What would that have to do with supply side? Supply side worked well BTW. Reagan got us out of a hell of a jam using it.

You mean tripling the debt?

View attachment 164351

Just redistribution of income when the debt increased.

 

[beagle9]

Low skilled workers don't have a choice of whether to be exploited or not
Most will eventually find a higher paying job

Look at a 17 year old worker. He will work for minimum wages while he goes to college to qualify for one of those better paying jobs. Because minimum wage employment pays so poorly, that young worker will be forced to take out loans to pay for that dream of an education
When he graduates, instead of looking to buy a home or getting married, he will be saddled with education debt that those minimum wage jobs used to pay for

These folks are low skilled and they are only worth X because that's what the job pays - if you're looking across the entire city for a "low skill" job and they all pay min wage - then you're only worth that min wage because there's a bunch of low skill workers; their labor isn't worth much.

On the flip side, if you're in Alaska NO ONE pays min wage because we don't have enough peeps to do the work we need done. We have too many open jobs, which means our labor is worth more money.

Supply and demand.

These folks might have to move to a location that /needs/ workers, rather than complaining about low pay when there are a lot of workers. It's still a personal choice, they choose to stay near family/friends whatever, and as a consequence are stuck with their labor being worth low pay. Hell my cousin just did this; he'd come up here to work in construction because it paid way better.

Very true
The lack of higher paying jobs in construction or manufacturing forces college students to accept those minimum wage positions. Their need for summer only employment also limits their choices

So employers are able to get students to work for substandard wages because minimum wage is so low and because of a lack of higher paying temporary jobs

And the employees, accept that pay, even when they have an option to go somewhere else that /needs/ them, and would pay them more. Still "choices we make"

I /chose/ to retire, I do not have the right to bitch that my income is technically below the poverty line. I also chose to not take a bunch of jobs because I wanted to raise my kids. My husband conversely chooses to work two to four jobs at a time; and in fact we picked a smaller house that we can always afford, he works two jobs right now so that we can live in our house and don't need our money on the market to keep it - even when the market fails and we lose damn near everything on the market (see 2008 crash.) It's all about personal choices.

Yes there are personal choices
There are also class choices which our society makes. Are we willing to stand up for low skilled workers and provide them with a wage which allows basic survival, or do we want to use our low skilled workers as a source of cheap labor because they are the least able to defend themselves?

Our society chooses the latter

Class "choices"? No one is using them for cheap labor man, they're being paid based on supply and demand, that's what I was saying. IF there's not enough no-skill or low-skill workers, their labor is worth more. IF there's a bunch of no-skill or low-skilled workers, their labor is worth /less/ because a business can hire the next dude(tte) You cannot mandate the value of no to low skill workers because it's not based on anything except supply and demand in the local sphere. (Again, see my point about Eagle River low pay.) It is not the businesses job to provide a living wage, they are /offering/ a position at X pay, take it or don't, but they are not obligated to pay what you think they "should" - the only "think they should be paid" comes from the other businesses who are competing for the worker's labor.


What you want is price fixing, something that's been despised when businesses do it for ages...

. Supply and Demand without ethics, morals, integrity, Christian values (i.e. what would Jesus do), or anything like that to exist in ones consciousness any longer is a good thing ??, So these attributes are therefore dead on arrival with our business models today ??

You never saw the meaning illustrated in the great timeless movie "A Christmas Carol" eh ?

Scrooge was the same back then, and he is to this very day just as "real in spirit"as he ever was, but he has now been buried in a sea of deceptive greed tactics in which seeks to cause a nation to forget the very make up of his greedy self created character, in that was a character in which had been intercepted by the spirit of Christmas past in example of. A spirit for whom had finally got him to realize his flaw in character in his life in order for him to try and repent before it was to late in his life. If haven't seen it, then you should because it applies perfectly in meaning, and it never goes out of season.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Nonsense. At Hamburger University, McDonald’s trains you in the art of the Burger so you can work there for life!

I would if I could. What an easy fucking job. Massively ungratifying however.

There’s nothing unsatisfying about making a flawless, juicy, monster of a burger.

Look at that. Pay whoever made that $100 an hour

Makes my arteries harden just looking at it...

Harden with near sexual desire

 

[beagle9]

Lets look at it realistically

A $15 minimum wage will make up for the ten years since minimum wage was last raised and the next ten years until they are raised again

It would also eliminate a lot of jobs either by a reduction in workforce or replacing workers with automation.

What you fail to understand is that when you get a wage increase, it costs your employer more than the cash alone. Insurances go up, their matching contributions to your SS and Medicare contributions go up, it costs them more money for when you're getting paid while not working like vacations and holidays.

You can't sit back and say a dollar an hour raise for an employee will only cost the employer only 40 bucks. It costs much more than that.

. What if an employer can afford the increase ? Would you get mad if they said ok to increasing the minimum wage or baseline pay in order to keep their employees happy, on board with them, and up with at least the cost of living situation in life ?? It's amazing to me how you can assess the situation against the employee side of the equation, but won't speak to the problems created on the employer side of the equation when they do wrong on that side of it all.

So what is there then, this endless supply of human resources to go through out there, and we have companies who figure that they are willing to go through hundreds per year as long as they make a profit the whole time while doing it ??

 

[jon_berzerk]

to be replaced with machines and such

--LOL

perfect burgers every time

You're obviously not much of a burger connoisseur.

A machine will never make a perfect burger.

certainly better then some of the stuff i have received at these joints

 

[Uncensored2008]

View attachment 164037

Even McDonald's acknowledges that their business was intended for children.
Holding businesses that are created with the employment of kids & college students responsible for the poor choices people make in life is wrong. If you're in your mid to late 20's or higher & working for minimum wage you have no one to blame but yourself. You're poor choices should not result in a 10.00 Big Mac or 4 dollar fry.

Kids have been shut out of these jobs by illegal aliens.

it isn't kids working at these jobs anymore. not since rightwignuts crashed the economy last time.

DERP.

You're an idiot, I'll grant you that.

It isn't kids working these jobs since the Communists opened the borders and the illegals took their jobs.

 

[Uncensored2008]

That's not the fault of the employer, that's the fault of Democrat politicians. Employers don't hand out welfare--government hands out welfare.

You and I pay low wage workers because employers won't

Rather see the employer pay reasonable wages than the taxpayer

Which means we should have strict limits on social programs. They should only be given to those who have absolutely no way of supporting themselves. Currently, our government rewards people who don't try, so they stay on the programs as long as possible.

The reason people don't try to better themselves is because of these programs. The solution? Get rid of the programs and let people figure out how to make ends meet themselves.

We do have strict limits on social programs

Wealthy truck drivers do not qualify

Gold in the grill really gives it away..

in south chicago, white guys can buy chicks for 9.00 hr

This isn't about Jillian.

The issue is the $15 minimum wage and the ease at which they are replaced by technology.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Kids have been shut out of these jobs by illegal aliens.

Nonsense. Most kids today are spoiled and think they're too good to work at McDonald's. My guess is that there is a lot of peer pressure from kids whose parents either don't allow them to work because they had to when they were kids or some other wild reason.

Utter bullshit.

Employers won't hire them, because the 35 year old illegal will show up every day and works harder. We have destroyed the ladder of success for American youth.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Lets look at it realistically

A $15 minimum wage will make up for the ten years since minimum wage was last raised and the next ten years until they are raised again

It would also eliminate a lot of jobs either by a reduction in workforce or replacing workers with automation.

What you fail to understand is that when you get a wage increase, it costs your employer more than the cash alone. Insurances go up, their matching contributions to your SS and Medicare contributions go up, it costs them more money for when you're getting paid while not working like vacations and holidays.

You can't sit back and say a dollar an hour raise for an employee will only cost the employer only 40 bucks. It costs much more than that.

. What if an employer can afford the increase ? Would you get mad if they said ok to increasing the minimum wage or baseline pay in order to keep their employees happy, on board with them, and up with at least the cost of living situation in life ?? It's amazing to me how you can assess the situation against the employee side of the equation, but won't speak to the problems created on the employer side of the equation when they do wrong on that side of it all.

So what is there then, this endless supply of human resources to go through out there, and we have companies who figure that they are willing to go through hundreds per year as long as they make a profit the whole time while doing it ??

Not all companies are the same; particularly small businesses.

Many small businesses operate at the verge of closing. They survive week to week and often the employer pays his employees before himself.

So an across the board minimum wage increase would not only close down those places, but prevent new small business start-ups. It's just not a good idea because as it is, most small businesses fail anyway. They don't need help in failing more.

 

[BrokeLoser]

View attachment 164037

Even McDonald's acknowledges that their business was intended for children.
Holding businesses that are created with the employment of kids & college students responsible for the poor choices people make in life is wrong. If you're in your mid to late 20's or higher & working for minimum wage you have no one to blame but yourself. You're poor choices should not result in a 10.00 Big Mac or 4 dollar fry.

Cool message and all...but funny how they couldn't dare use a model with blonde hair and blue eyes in their ad campaign.
You wouldn't dare want to depict a true all American...NOPE, not in AMERICA.

So only blue eyed blondes are American?

How would you BEST describe the "All American Girl"?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

View attachment 164037

Even McDonald's acknowledges that their business was intended for children.
Holding businesses that are created with the employment of kids & college students responsible for the poor choices people make in life is wrong. If you're in your mid to late 20's or higher & working for minimum wage you have no one to blame but yourself. You're poor choices should not result in a 10.00 Big Mac or 4 dollar fry.

Cool message and all...but funny how they couldn't dare use a model with blonde hair and blue eyes in their ad campaign.
You wouldn't dare want to depict a true all American...NOPE, not in AMERICA.

So only blue eyed blondes are American?

How would you BEST describe the "All American Girl"?

 

[JoeB131]

Do you hear me whining that I'm making minimum wage?

No, we hear you whining you can't get health insurance. The thing is, you blame Obama and not your boss.

 

[JoeB131]

Why shouldn't they?

If you want a new car, you may be putting yourself in debt for the next five years.
If you want a new home, you may be putting yourself in debt for the next 30 years.
If you open up your own business, you may be putting yourself in debt the next ten years.

Things you really want (or really believe will help you) in life often put us into debt.

Houses and cars are tangible. What your are really going for in a university degree is a piece of paper.

Nobody should have to go in as much debt as they would for a house for a fucking piece of paper.

 

[JoeB131]

What we're doing now seems to be working okay. But like I said, the problem isn't minimum wage, the problem is discouraging people from doing better. Raise that wage and you give them more discouragement.

Hey, maybe everyone doesn't want to spend their life in the rat race "trying to do better'. Maybe some people are just happy flipping burgers.

I wouldn't be, but a lot of people are.

They should make a living wage doing it.

Like I said earlier, it's the domino effect depending on how much more you raise it.

Take Rightwinger for instance. He said we should make minimum 15 dollars an hour. Do you think I'm going to drive a truck for a little more than that? I'm going to want more money.....lots more money.

Okay, but why do you think they'll give it to you?

They won't even give you health insurance.

If I don't get it, I'll quit and take one of those minimum wage jobs. It would be worth the cut in pay to rid myself of the responsibilities and risks I do have with my job. After all, driving is one of the top ten deadliest jobs in the United States; more deadly than being a police officer or fireman. If I get into a serious accident, I could end up spending the next ten years or so of my life in prison for involuntary manslaughter.

Who needs it? I'll go sweep floors at Walmart and not have to worry about piloting a 75,000 lbs vehicle in snowstorms anymore.

And they would easily find someone to replace you, that's the thing.

Before they get a machine to do it.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah? Well the wealthiest nation in the world is now 20 trillion in debt--much of that because of our social programs.

Uh, probably has to do more with our bloated Military Industrial Complex.

That and it goes up every time we cut taxes on the rich for growth that never shows up.

 

[JoeB131]

What does an actor, athlete, musician do that can't be replicated?

Put asses in seats.

If I go to a Roger Waters concert, it's because I want to hear Roger Waters, not "some guy who can remember all the Lyrics to Roger's songs".

Shit, I can go to a Pink Floyd themed Karaoke night and hear that.

Companies pay the least they can for employees be they the toilet scrubbers or CEO's. You watch way too many movies. People (stockholders) don't invest hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars with a company who hires flunkies to run their business. It's a sure recipe for failure.

yet they tripled the salary for McDonald's CEO despite the company continuing to decline in sales and closing stores.

Sears is run by a complete asshole who has run down their business. They'll be out of business by the end of next year. Yet no one is going to sack this guy, who is getting rich selling off the assets.

Let's say you and I both own widget factories. We both want to see more sales. So you find a CEO with a great success history, but he wants 10 million to work for you. Now if you hire him, there is a good chance that 10 mill will turn to 20 mill in new sales. Is he worth the money?

No, absolutely fucking not. You see, this is the problem with our corporate culture. CEO's have vastly inflated opinions of themselves, and basically have conned the rest of us into believing it.

A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes that he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts, "Excuse me. Can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man below says, "Yes. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees north latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees west longitude.

"You must be an engineer" says the balloonist.

"I am", replies the man. "How did you know?"

"Well..." says the balloonist. "Everything you told be was technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information and the fact is I am still lost."

The man below says, "You must be a CEO"

"I am", replies the balloonist. "How did you know?"

"Well..." says the man. "You don't know where you are, or where you are going. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met but now it is somehow
my fault."

 

[JoeB131]

But let's say you don't think like that; anybody can do his job, so you hire a CEO for about one million a year. In the meantime, I find out about your rejection and I hire that CEO for 10 million a year, and then we take away your business and you have to close down.

Except the CEO isn't really that important. Jesus Christ, I've never met a CEO who wasn't full of himself, never met one who even knew what we did on a day to day basis.

Companies work well only if the employees are motivated and committed. The Japanese and Germans get this. Their CEO's don't make anything near what ours make, but their work forces are more unionized, and better motivated, and better educated than ours are.

But dun, der, Cleetus I don't dun der need to learn nothin' from dem der fur-hen-nurs.

 

[depotoo]

Why? Because they choose to not better themselves, you think others should pick up their slack when they can’t afford it, because of their lack of ambition. That employer worked his butt off to be able to afford his franchise, works his butt off to be able to keep it open, and he has no responsibility to carry the water for an employee that won’t even put in the effort to do more than flip a burger. If they want more, then they better do more.

What we're doing now seems to be working okay. But like I said, the problem isn't minimum wage, the problem is discouraging people from doing better. Raise that wage and you give them more discouragement.

Hey, maybe everyone doesn't want to spend their life in the rat race "trying to do better'. Maybe some people are just happy flipping burgers.

I wouldn't be, but a lot of people are.

They should make a living wage doing it.

Like I said earlier, it's the domino effect depending on how much more you raise it.

Take Rightwinger for instance. He said we should make minimum 15 dollars an hour. Do you think I'm going to drive a truck for a little more than that? I'm going to want more money.....lots more money.

Okay, but why do you think they'll give it to you?

They won't even give you health insurance.

If I don't get it, I'll quit and take one of those minimum wage jobs. It would be worth the cut in pay to rid myself of the responsibilities and risks I do have with my job. After all, driving is one of the top ten deadliest jobs in the United States; more deadly than being a police officer or fireman. If I get into a serious accident, I could end up spending the next ten years or so of my life in prison for involuntary manslaughter.

Who needs it? I'll go sweep floors at Walmart and not have to worry about piloting a 75,000 lbs vehicle in snowstorms anymore.

And they would easily find someone to replace you, that's the thing.

Before they get a machine to do it.

 

[Humorme]

View attachment 164037

Even McDonald's acknowledges that their business was intended for children.
Holding businesses that are created with the employment of kids & college students responsible for the poor choices people make in life is wrong. If you're in your mid to late 20's or higher & working for minimum wage you have no one to blame but yourself. You're poor choices should not result in a 10.00 Big Mac or 4 dollar fry.

I'm a Johnny Come Lately to your thread; however, before seeing what others said, I wanted to give my .02 cents worth

I see both sides of this.

McDonalds should be mostly kids and younger people, displaced workers, etc. That still does not mean that Mickey Ds should not pay their help. I remember hearing about the walk-outs and workers saying that their pay increases could be accomplished with a mere 15 cents per meal increase. The REAL reason, IMO, that MickeyDs wouldn't do that is that they won't raise the cost of a meal without putting more money into stockholders pockets.

Unfortunately in America people who merely invest think that they should be entitled to an increase every time the price of a meal goes up. Meanwhile the people who give up their nights, week-ends and holidays have to subsist on meager wages that would send a ditch digger on strike.

I've heard the arguments before. If you want a better job... Spare me. Some people are mentally and / or emotionally challenged and won't be graduating from Harvard or Yale. It really bothers me that the rich sit on their ass, drawing big salaries, and wailing about having to pay their workers for working. MickeyDs will soon be automated and then you can choose to be loyal to their artery clogging, calorie laden, heart stopping burgers or start living a healthy lifestyle.

Personally, I'm leaning toward a boycott.