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The school is following the guidelines of the APA and ACA. All students must follow these standards. Ms Keeton is no exception.
The issue is not about the right of religious students to hold whatever beliefs they have, but over the right of a professional degree program to enforce requirements that are rooted in a sense of the field's needs and a commitment to equity.
This is about behaviors that are appropriate or not appropriate within counseling. The university's policies are consistent with the ethics code of the American Counseling Association. The university's counseling programs couldn't keep its accreditation while ignoring the code.
Keeton knew the university's curricular goal of teaching students to counsel without imposing their personal values on their clients by setting up boundaries so as not to be judgmental.
In case you do not understand the school is not the APA.
And I highly doubt that the written curriculum for the school stated anything at all about having to discard one's faith prior to graduation nor I am sure did it state anything at all about not imposing one's personal values on their client by setting up boundaries so as not to be judgmental. Although, anyone that wanted to be a counselor would know that is inappropriate and would not attempt to do so.
I hate to say it, but the fact is that despite you and Coyote insisting repeatedly throughout these threads, there is not a shred of evidence that Ms. Keeton would not provide very professional counseling to anyone.
You two can continue to insist that this is the case, but you have not proven it to be so.
She has no business openly espousing her Christian values in a counseling session with a gay or lesbian client.
She want's to proselytize in a counseling session. People don't go to counseling sessions to be converted to Christianity.
She never said she would espouse her faith upon others.
Again, you can keep repeating this inaccurate statement that she plans on proselytizing but the only people you will convince are people that have not and will not read the articles.
Immie
The counseling program abides by both the ACA and the APA guidelines. Ms Keeton's own words tell the true story.
She said she could not affirm a gay or lesbian's lifestyle. A client does not go to see a counselor to be condemned as wrong for who he or she happens to love.
In case you do not understand the school is not the APA.
And I highly doubt that the written curriculum for the school stated anything at all about having to discard one's faith prior to graduation nor I am sure did it state anything at all about not imposing one's personal values on their client by setting up boundaries so as not to be judgmental. Although, anyone that wanted to be a counselor would know that is inappropriate and would not attempt to do so.
I hate to say it, but the fact is that despite you and Coyote insisting repeatedly throughout these threads, there is not a shred of evidence that Ms. Keeton would not provide very professional counseling to anyone.
You two can continue to insist that this is the case, but you have not proven it to be so.
She never said she would espouse her faith upon others.
Again, you can keep repeating this inaccurate statement that she plans on proselytizing but the only people you will convince are people that have not and will not read the articles.
Immie
The counseling program abides by both the ACA and the APA guidelines. Ms Keeton's own words tell the true story.
She said she could not affirm a gay or lesbian's lifestyle. A client does not go to see a counselor to be condemned as wrong for who he or she happens to love.
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE SHE WANTS TO PROSELYTIZE IN COUNSELING SESSIONS?
There is none. You are therefore lying.
She was asked to "approve" of homosexual lifestyle. Who else in that program has been required to do that? If nobody has, it's discrimination based upon her religion.
The counseling program abides by both the ACA and the APA guidelines. Ms Keeton's own words tell the true story.
She said she could not affirm a gay or lesbian's lifestyle. A client does not go to see a counselor to be condemned as wrong for who he or she happens to love.
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE SHE WANTS TO PROSELYTIZE IN COUNSELING SESSIONS?
There is none. You are therefore lying.
She was asked to "approve" of homosexual lifestyle. Who else in that program has been required to do that? If nobody has, it's discrimination based upon her religion.
Read her own words.
"My Christian moral views are not just about me. I think the Bibles teaching is true for all people, and it shows the right way
to live. I believe the Bibles teaching applies to all people on who they are and how they should act, not just to
me. From that, I see that some behaviors are not moral or positive."
Her professor responds:
"What is the issue is if you believe your personal beliefs and values should be the same beliefs and values for all people. This is the
unethical partapplying your own personal beliefs and values on other people and not truly accepting that others can have different beliefs and values that are
equally valid as your own."
It is equally valid for a gay or lesbian person who feel they are as moral and positive as the next person.
Miss Keeton believes that other people should act in accordance with her moral values. That belief contradicts the principles contained in the American Counseling
Association and American School Counselor Association Code of Ethics.
Miss Keetons belief that others should follow biblical moral values is unethical: These statements indicate that she thinks certain people should act in accordance
with her moral values, and/or that her beliefs are in some way superior to those of others. The belief that she possesses a special knowledge about the way that
other people should live their lives, and that others need to adopt a similar set of values contradicts the core principles of the American Counseling Association
and American School Counselor Association Codes of Ethics, which define the roles and responsibilities of professional counselors.
In case you do not understand the school is not the APA.
And I highly doubt that the written curriculum for the school stated anything at all about having to discard one's faith prior to graduation nor I am sure did it state anything at all about not imposing one's personal values on their client by setting up boundaries so as not to be judgmental. Although, anyone that wanted to be a counselor would know that is inappropriate and would not attempt to do so.
I hate to say it, but the fact is that despite you and Coyote insisting repeatedly throughout these threads, there is not a shred of evidence that Ms. Keeton would not provide very professional counseling to anyone.
You two can continue to insist that this is the case, but you have not proven it to be so.
She never said she would espouse her faith upon others.
Again, you can keep repeating this inaccurate statement that she plans on proselytizing but the only people you will convince are people that have not and will not read the articles.
Immie
The counseling program abides by both the ACA and the APA guidelines. Ms Keeton's own words tell the true story.
She said she could not affirm a gay or lesbian's lifestyle. A client does not go to see a counselor to be condemned as wrong for who he or she happens to love.
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE SHE WANTS TO PROSELYTIZE IN COUNSELING SESSIONS?
There is none. You are therefore lying.
She was asked to "approve" of homosexual lifestyle. Who else in that program has been required to do that? If nobody has, it's discrimination based upon her religion.
The counseling program abides by both the ACA and the APA guidelines. Ms Keeton's own words tell the true story.
She said she could not affirm a gay or lesbian's lifestyle. A client does not go to see a counselor to be condemned as wrong for who he or she happens to love.
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE SHE WANTS TO PROSELYTIZE IN COUNSELING SESSIONS?
There is none. You are therefore lying.
She was asked to "approve" of homosexual lifestyle. Who else in that program has been required to do that? If nobody has, it's discrimination based upon her religion.
Exactly, and so what if she wants to proselytize. Does the client not have the ability to chose whether or not to come back? Besides, is not the teacher proselytizing his beliefs to the student?
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE SHE WANTS TO PROSELYTIZE IN COUNSELING SESSIONS?
There is none. You are therefore lying.
She was asked to "approve" of homosexual lifestyle. Who else in that program has been required to do that? If nobody has, it's discrimination based upon her religion.
Read her own words.
"My Christian moral views are not just about me. I think the Bible’s teaching is true for all people, and it shows the right way
to live. I believe the Bible’s teaching applies to all people on who they are and how they should act, not just to
me. From that, I see that some behaviors are not moral or positive."
Her professor responds:
"What is the issue is if you believe your personal beliefs and values should be the same beliefs and values for all people. This is the
unethical part—applying your own personal beliefs and values on other people and not truly accepting that others can have different beliefs and values that are
equally valid as your own."
It is equally valid for a gay or lesbian person who feel they are as moral and positive as the next person.
Miss Keeton believes that other people should act in accordance with her moral values. That belief contradicts the principles contained in the American Counseling
Association and American School Counselor Association Code of Ethics.
Miss Keeton’s belief that others should follow biblical moral values is unethical: These statements indicate that she thinks certain people should act in accordance
with her moral values, and/or that her beliefs are in some way superior to those of others. The belief that she possesses a special knowledge about the way that
other people should live their lives, and that others need to adopt a similar set of values contradicts the core principles of the American Counseling Association
and American School Counselor Association Codes of Ethics, which define the roles and responsibilities of professional counselors.
The problem is, the professor is forcing his beliefs on the student. He feels that his beliefs are superior to Ms. Keeton's and that Ms. Keeton must change her beliefs to reflect his.
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE SHE WANTS TO PROSELYTIZE IN COUNSELING SESSIONS?
There is none. You are therefore lying.
She was asked to "approve" of homosexual lifestyle. Who else in that program has been required to do that? If nobody has, it's discrimination based upon her religion.
Exactly, and so what if she wants to proselytize. Does the client not have the ability to chose whether or not to come back? Besides, is not the teacher proselytizing his beliefs to the student?
Thanks for admitting that Keeton wants to proselytize. She can't in a school counseling position. It's against the ethics of the profession.
The professor is asking Keeton to comply with psychology profession standards. Keeton has said that her Christian ethics mean more to her than complying with the professions requirements.
Her own words indict her. Here's what she has to say:
"My Christian moral views are not just about me. I think the Bible’s teaching is true for all people, and it shows the right way
to live. I believe the Bible’s teaching applies to all people on who they are and how they should act, not just to
me. From that, I see that some behaviors are not moral or positive."
She does not meet the standard of her training program.
She needs to go to Bible College.
Another partisan thread brought to you by Political Chic.
Keep stirrin' it up.
No one here has a professional life? No one here can make the distinction between what you believe and do in your private life, compared to what you do in your professional life?
You folks don't want "tolerance for a different POV". What you want is for science to be uprooted from scientific pursuits to accomodate the irrational beliefs of religious types.
This school has no business graduating a student incompetent to counsel GLBT people and those affected by them. That is the bottom line.
No one here has a professional life? No one here can make the distinction between what you believe and do in your private life, compared to what you do in your professional life?
You folks don't want "tolerance for a different POV". What you want is for science to be uprooted from scientific pursuits to accomodate the irrational beliefs of religious types.
This school has no business graduating a student incompetent to counsel GLBT people and those affected by them. That is the bottom line.
Has she even had any clients yet?Absolutely.
My point is, it's idiotic to required people adhere to publicly support an unproved theory as a condition of receiving a degree in any field. Even the non-scientific and constantly changing field of psychology.
Well then if you want to campaign to change the ethics of the entire counseling field have at it. That's what the Alliance Defense Fund seeks. To make Christianity the ethics of the counseling field. And not just Christianity, but the narrow kind that Ms Keeton practices.
Plenty of Christians love and accept gay people. Keeton does not. What Keeton wants to do would be harmful to gay and lesbian clients.
The ethics of the profession say do no harm.
A.4.a. Avoiding Harm
Counselors act to avoid harming their clients, trainees, and research participants
and to minimize or to remedy unavoidable or unanticipated harm.
So when did Miss Keaton harm her clients?
She didn't.
The counseling program abides by both the ACA and the APA guidelines. Ms Keeton's own words tell the true story.
She said she could not affirm a gay or lesbian's lifestyle. A client does not go to see a counselor to be condemned as wrong for who he or she happens to love.
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE SHE WANTS TO PROSELYTIZE IN COUNSELING SESSIONS?
There is none. You are therefore lying.
She was asked to "approve" of homosexual lifestyle. Who else in that program has been required to do that? If nobody has, it's discrimination based upon her religion.
Exactly, and so what if she wants to proselytize. Does the client not have the ability to chose whether or not to come back? Besides, is not the teacher proselytizing his beliefs to the student?
Exactly, and so what if she wants to proselytize. Does the client not have the ability to chose whether or not to come back? Besides, is not the teacher proselytizing his beliefs to the student?
Thanks for admitting that Keeton wants to proselytize. She can't in a school counseling position. It's against the ethics of the profession.
Thanks for admitting that you are okay with proselytizing as long as it isn't a Christian doing it.
No one here has a professional life? No one here can make the distinction between what you believe and do in your private life, compared to what you do in your professional life?
You folks don't want "tolerance for a different POV". What you want is for science to be uprooted from scientific pursuits to accomodate the irrational beliefs of religious types.
This school has no business graduating a student incompetent to counsel GLBT people and those affected by them. That is the bottom line.
So if she believes in the wrong ideology she's not gonna get a job?
Seems a bit unfair don't you think?
Whatever happened to equality and freedom from religious persecution?
Has she even had any clients yet?Well then if you want to campaign to change the ethics of the entire counseling field have at it. That's what the Alliance Defense Fund seeks. To make Christianity the ethics of the counseling field. And not just Christianity, but the narrow kind that Ms Keeton practices.
Plenty of Christians love and accept gay people. Keeton does not. What Keeton wants to do would be harmful to gay and lesbian clients.
The ethics of the profession say do no harm.
A.4.a. Avoiding Harm
Counselors act to avoid harming their clients, trainees, and research participants
and to minimize or to remedy unavoidable or unanticipated harm.
So when did Miss Keaton harm her clients?
She didn't.
