Top 8% Own 85%

[Toddsterpatriot]

An economy slows when there is too much inequality.

How do you fix inequality? Higher taxes? More regulation?

Give more power to the workers. We are definitely hurting from the decline of unions. We need to better police companies to stop the collusion. I would actually decrease Corp taxes in return for higher wages and benefits for employees. I think we need to stop importing workers and some well placed tariffs might help. Maybe raise minimum wage, though I prefer the other things mentioned.

Okay, so you institute a tariff and increase minimum wage. Who do you think ultimately pays these increases in prices?

So you grab on two of the options I mentioned? For a tariff I would first put one on services like IT, accounting and CS. Those are jobs that never should have left. Consumers pay for them, but when wages go up they can afford it.

Bottom line is that ultimately, we little people pay for those costs to a company.

Create a tariff on widgets. When I buy a widget, that cost is included, so ultimately, I am paying that tariff--not the company. Tax the rich--tax the businesses!!!! Okay, so we tax the people that make the flooring I plan on buying. Don't you think those taxes are included in that product when I buy it?

That's the way it all works unfortunately, and no law in the world can change that in a free country.

WE NEED CLEANER AIR!!! Okay, so now we have it. How? Because they forced truck manufacturers to put all kinds of pollution crap in these tractors and trucks. We now have to use a product called Diesel Exhaust Fluid, or DEF for short.

DEF is a separate container that squirts this crap into the exhaust pipe to make it burn cleaner. Not only that, but during the Bush years, they forced diesel fuel manufacturers to produce lower sulfur diesel fuel. Until now, diesel fuel was about a dollar a gallon more expensive than gasoline.

Trucks went up in price--about $10,000 more for a newer truck than before those pollution standards came out. And any diesel mechanic can testify that when these trucks have problems, it usually has to do with some pollution gadget going haywire, and these problems happen all the time.

Okay, so we have cleaner air and those big bad transportation companies have to pay for it!!! Wrong. Guess what my employer had to do to cover these additional expenses such as increase costs for diesel fuel, DEF fluid, higher prices for trucks, towing service when these trucks break down all the time, the repair shop to fix all this crap?


That's right, he greatly increased his prices to our customers who make our products. Those customers who make our products increase the cost of those products that you and I buy in the store every time we go shopping.

But what the hell, can't you just smell how much cleaner the air is????

Make it more expensive to import products and the companies will make them here. More jobs here and wages go up.

Make it more expensive to import products and the companies will make them here.
More jobs here and wages go up.

Make goods more expensive and people will have fewer dollars to buy other things.
Fewer jobs here and wages go down.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So who says you have to be part of that tribe?

It's the same old argument about CEO's. If you think CEO's get paid too much money and don't do any work, why don't you become a CEO yourself? Of course the answer is because it's not that easy. It takes a lot of education, a lot of experience, a lot of getting to know politicians, a lot of getting fired from jobs, a lot of packing up your bags and traveling.

I have several people in my family that don't work for anybody. One Uncle (now retired) was a carpenter. Another Uncle ran his own remodeling business. Two of my cousins own their own remodeling business. My one cousin is an artist and runs his own business.

If you really believe that employers are taking advantage of you, then the solution is to simply work for yourself. Take up a construction trade. Learn how to be a plumber, an electrician, a bricklayer. Take courses in HVAC and work for yourself. There are a lot of things you can do besides work for somebody else.

I said nothing about CEO's. I never said it impacted me personally either. You don't read so well. Do you believe that everyone in America can earn 100K if they wanted to?

No, I don't. But it's like my father taught me many years ago. "Ray, anybody can make money; an idiot makes money. But it's less of how much you earn than how much you can keep. Instead of sending your money out to buy silly shit for you, it's better to send your money out to work for you instead."

As always, Dad was correct. I've known very well-to-do people in my life, and regardless of how much they have, it's never enough. Money is an obsession with them. It's the main focus of their life from the time they wake up until the time they go to bed.

The thing is I get in on these types of discussions when I can. What I found is that most of the people that complain about what other people have never made a serious investment in their lives. Oh sure, some may have an IRA from work or something if not a personal one, or they may have bought a house which will increase in value, but none that I've talked to ever made any serious investments in their lives; take every dime they've been able to save and just put it towards growth.

So if you agree that everyone can't make 100K than your plan of self actualization is really nonsense. You leave quite a large percentage of people out in the cold without prospects. Do you believe people's pay should buy more or less than it did 40 years ago? Shouldn't we, in America, be moving forward and not back? Your anecdotes from dear old dad don't go far enough.

No, not at all.

I remember how people bashed Hillary years ago because she invested $1,000 and turned that into $100,000 in one year. I'm one of the few people that stuck up for her on that story.

Why? Because I used to invest in commodities. What I learned is that those kinds of things happen all the time in that market. I played it for years and enjoyed the hell out of myself.

High risk? You bet. Before you can even open up an account, you need to sign about 20 papers saying you understand the risk.

How much can you make? Well one oil contract could cost you around $5,000. But every time the price of oil changes in your direction by one dollar, you make $1,000. So what if oil goes up by $20.00 a barrel in a half-years time? You do the math.

So how did Hillary do it? When you make money on your commodity, you don't have to sell it in order to access your earnings. You can use it as cash. So let's say that I bought an oil contract and it went up five dollars. I made $5,000. But what I can do is use that money to buy another contract. Now I have two, and it does the same thing. Because I have two oil contracts and it went up by five dollars a barrel, I made $10,000. Now I can buy two more contracts!

This is how Hilary did it and many others in that market. Can this be accomplished by the average working slug? You bet, but again, it's how much you are willing to risk your money.

I remember how people bashed Hillary years ago because she invested $1,000 and turned that into $100,000 in one year. I'm one of the few people that stuck up for her on that story.

It was a payoff. A bribe.

Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Blair have said that they used Robert L. (Red) Bone, the broker who founded the Springdale office of Refco, a Chicago commodities firm, to execute the trades. But Mr. Bone, who worked at Tyson for 13 years until 1973, insisted in several interviews this month that he has no recollection of ever trading for Mrs. Clinton or talking to her about commodities trades.

Hillary Clinton Turned $1,000 Into $99,540, White House Says

The way it worked, they entered a buy and sell order for cattle futures in the morning.
Did it again in the afternoon.
Back in those days, you could enter orders without specifying the customer account on the trade.
When the cattle prices rose by the end of the day, Hillary's account number was placed on the morning buy and the afternoon sell.
When the cattle prices fell by the end of the day, Hillary's account number was placed on the morning sell and the afternoon buy. Do that enough times and even someone with no commodity knowledge and only $1000 in her account can turn it into ~$100,000.
They sometimes gave her losing trades, to make it look more realistic.

The company that bribed her, Refco, was a bunch of crooks.
There is a theory that they might have been compensated by Tyson for the trades they gave her.

If I remember correctly, it was investigated by the Commodities Trade Commission.

What is described here is called Managed Accounts. You (or anybody else for that matter) can buy such an account. You don't have to make any decisions, you don't have to do any research, you don't have to know anything about commodities, you just let the fund managers have at it, and people still make some pretty good returns.

Back to the point: people do make great money all the time if they are willing to risk their savings. The problem as I've seen it is that the people who complain the most about wealthy individuals are those who have never put their money at risk. They didn't invest in stock or commodities, they didn't invest in real estate, they didn't open up their own business. Instead, they sit back and complain about the employers not providing them with what they think is a satisfactory wage or benefits.

Yes, I do work a full-time job, but part-time, I'm a landlord. It takes a lot of work to run this place. I have much more worries than my tenants. They don't have to worry about what to do if water is leaking in through the roof. They don't have to worry if the furnace doesn't work. They don't have to worry if a sink or toilet is clogged or doesn't work properly. That's my problem. They come home to a mowed lawn in the summer or a clean driveway in the winter.

But this time of the month, they approach me with money instead of the other way around. That's the rewards one gets for making such an investment.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I said nothing about CEO's. I never said it impacted me personally either. You don't read so well. Do you believe that everyone in America can earn 100K if they wanted to?

No, I don't. But it's like my father taught me many years ago. "Ray, anybody can make money; an idiot makes money. But it's less of how much you earn than how much you can keep. Instead of sending your money out to buy silly shit for you, it's better to send your money out to work for you instead."

As always, Dad was correct. I've known very well-to-do people in my life, and regardless of how much they have, it's never enough. Money is an obsession with them. It's the main focus of their life from the time they wake up until the time they go to bed.

The thing is I get in on these types of discussions when I can. What I found is that most of the people that complain about what other people have never made a serious investment in their lives. Oh sure, some may have an IRA from work or something if not a personal one, or they may have bought a house which will increase in value, but none that I've talked to ever made any serious investments in their lives; take every dime they've been able to save and just put it towards growth.

So if you agree that everyone can't make 100K than your plan of self actualization is really nonsense. You leave quite a large percentage of people out in the cold without prospects. Do you believe people's pay should buy more or less than it did 40 years ago? Shouldn't we, in America, be moving forward and not back? Your anecdotes from dear old dad don't go far enough.

No, not at all.

I remember how people bashed Hillary years ago because she invested $1,000 and turned that into $100,000 in one year. I'm one of the few people that stuck up for her on that story.

Why? Because I used to invest in commodities. What I learned is that those kinds of things happen all the time in that market. I played it for years and enjoyed the hell out of myself.

High risk? You bet. Before you can even open up an account, you need to sign about 20 papers saying you understand the risk.

How much can you make? Well one oil contract could cost you around $5,000. But every time the price of oil changes in your direction by one dollar, you make $1,000. So what if oil goes up by $20.00 a barrel in a half-years time? You do the math.

So how did Hillary do it? When you make money on your commodity, you don't have to sell it in order to access your earnings. You can use it as cash. So let's say that I bought an oil contract and it went up five dollars. I made $5,000. But what I can do is use that money to buy another contract. Now I have two, and it does the same thing. Because I have two oil contracts and it went up by five dollars a barrel, I made $10,000. Now I can buy two more contracts!

This is how Hilary did it and many others in that market. Can this be accomplished by the average working slug? You bet, but again, it's how much you are willing to risk your money.

I remember how people bashed Hillary years ago because she invested $1,000 and turned that into $100,000 in one year. I'm one of the few people that stuck up for her on that story.

It was a payoff. A bribe.

Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Blair have said that they used Robert L. (Red) Bone, the broker who founded the Springdale office of Refco, a Chicago commodities firm, to execute the trades. But Mr. Bone, who worked at Tyson for 13 years until 1973, insisted in several interviews this month that he has no recollection of ever trading for Mrs. Clinton or talking to her about commodities trades.

Hillary Clinton Turned $1,000 Into $99,540, White House Says

The way it worked, they entered a buy and sell order for cattle futures in the morning.
Did it again in the afternoon.
Back in those days, you could enter orders without specifying the customer account on the trade.
When the cattle prices rose by the end of the day, Hillary's account number was placed on the morning buy and the afternoon sell.
When the cattle prices fell by the end of the day, Hillary's account number was placed on the morning sell and the afternoon buy. Do that enough times and even someone with no commodity knowledge and only $1000 in her account can turn it into ~$100,000.
They sometimes gave her losing trades, to make it look more realistic.

The company that bribed her, Refco, was a bunch of crooks.
There is a theory that they might have been compensated by Tyson for the trades they gave her.

If I remember correctly, it was investigated by the Commodities Trade Commission.

What is described here is called Managed Accounts. You (or anybody else for that matter) can buy such an account. You don't have to make any decisions, you don't have to do any research, you don't have to know anything about commodities, you just let the fund managers have at it, and people still make some pretty good returns.

Back to the point: people do make great money all the time if they are willing to risk their savings. The problem as I've seen it is that the people who complain the most about wealthy individuals are those who have never put their money at risk. They didn't invest in stock or commodities, they didn't invest in real estate, they didn't open up their own business. Instead, they sit back and complain about the employers not providing them with what they think is a satisfactory wage or benefits.

Yes, I do work a full-time job, but part-time, I'm a landlord. It takes a lot of work to run this place. I have much more worries than my tenants. They don't have to worry about what to do if water is leaking in through the roof. They don't have to worry if the furnace doesn't work. They don't have to worry if a sink or toilet is clogged or doesn't work properly. That's my problem. They come home to a mowed lawn in the summer or a clean driveway in the winter.

But this time of the month, they approach me with money instead of the other way around. That's the rewards one gets for making such an investment.

What is described here is called Managed Accounts.

Assigning trades at the end of the day isn't a managed account, it's a bribe.

You don't have to make any decisions, you don't have to do any research, you don't have to know anything about commodities, you just let the fund managers have at it

She lied, claimed she got her trading ideas from the Wall Street Journal.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This is really screwed up...and we Americans fight among ourselves over stupid things. All the while the elites are screwing us. When will we wake up and take action?


The Panama Papers offer damning proof of this: increasing concentrations of wealth and power that are free of any constraint (such as taxes) is not just the consequence of centralized money and state power--this inequality is the only possible output of centralized money and state power.

Here is a graphic portrayal of just how concentrated global wealth really is: the top .7% (less than 1%) own 45% of all global wealth, and the top 8% own 85%.

Of Two Minds - The Panama Papers: This Is the Consequence of Centralized Money and Power

Bottom 8% will bitch about anything & everything

 

[Pop23]

I've never quite figured out how someone making more money then me can diminish my happiness?

Maybe it's just me?

Yeah, it is just you. Myopia does that, try to see panoptically.

No, actually the well adjusted can live happily without being overly wealthy.

I'm sorry, my comment wasn't to question your wealth or happiness - even a homeless person living in a tent can be happy. Focus on the word Panoptic, that is, permitting the viewing of all parts or elements of an issue. We can't assume the 92% are all happy with such an outcome.

Why would someone even care why someone else is rich?

I don't get it

Paranoia? Jealousy?

What?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I've never quite figured out how someone making more money then me can diminish my happiness?

Maybe it's just me?

Yeah, it is just you. Myopia does that, try to see panoptically.

No, actually the well adjusted can live happily without being overly wealthy.

I'm sorry, my comment wasn't to question your wealth or happiness - even a homeless person living in a tent can be happy. Focus on the word Panoptic, that is, permitting the viewing of all parts or elements of an issue. We can't assume the 92% are all happy with such an outcome.

Why would someone even care why someone else is rich?

I don't get it

Paranoia? Jealousy?

What?

Lack of self esteem

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I've never quite figured out how someone making more money then me can diminish my happiness?

Maybe it's just me?

Yeah, it is just you. Myopia does that, try to see panoptically.

No, actually the well adjusted can live happily without being overly wealthy.

I'm sorry, my comment wasn't to question your wealth or happiness - even a homeless person living in a tent can be happy. Focus on the word Panoptic, that is, permitting the viewing of all parts or elements of an issue. We can't assume the 92% are all happy with such an outcome.

Why would someone even care why someone else is rich?

I don't get it

Paranoia? Jealousy?

What?

It's the liberal philosophy.

Liberals believe we live in a bubble. In our bubble, there is only so much money. Because there is only so much money, when one has too much, that's the reason others have too little.

This is why they are so focused on what others make instead of what they make. They don't blame themselves for their shortcomings, they blame others. It's much easier that way.

But if there were any truth to their philosophy, then when I ask my boss for a raise, he would tell me he'd love to give me one, but he doesn't have it because the rich have all the money. Or if I went to the bank for a loan. The loan manager would tell me they would lend me money if they had the money to lend, but they don't, the rich have all the money.

This of course never happens, but you can't explain that to a liberal. Money in this country is nearly endless. If you want more money, you simply get more money by working or investing. You will never be denied money because what others have.

As I said earlier, if you take 4/5 of the money from every millionaire and billionaire, it doesn't change my life (or the life of others) one bit. It may make government richer, but certainly not you or I.

 

[Brain357]

Give more power to the workers. We are definitely hurting from the decline of unions. We need to better police companies to stop the collusion. I would actually decrease Corp taxes in return for higher wages and benefits for employees. I think we need to stop importing workers and some well placed tariffs might help. Maybe raise minimum wage, though I prefer the other things mentioned.

Okay, so you institute a tariff and increase minimum wage. Who do you think ultimately pays these increases in prices?

So you grab on two of the options I mentioned? For a tariff I would first put one on services like IT, accounting and CS. Those are jobs that never should have left. Consumers pay for them, but when wages go up they can afford it.

For a tariff I would first put one on services like IT, accounting and CS.

That's an interesting idea. How would you put a tariff on accounting?

Companies buy accounting services in other countries. Those types of services would be taxed.

How? You can't tax a crate of accounting when they pull it off a container ship.

A Corp knows how much they spend on those services. That amount would be taxed just like profits.

 

[Brain357]

Give more power to the workers. We are definitely hurting from the decline of unions. We need to better police companies to stop the collusion. I would actually decrease Corp taxes in return for higher wages and benefits for employees. I think we need to stop importing workers and some well placed tariffs might help. Maybe raise minimum wage, though I prefer the other things mentioned.

Okay, so you institute a tariff and increase minimum wage. Who do you think ultimately pays these increases in prices?

So you grab on two of the options I mentioned? For a tariff I would first put one on services like IT, accounting and CS. Those are jobs that never should have left. Consumers pay for them, but when wages go up they can afford it.

Bottom line is that ultimately, we little people pay for those costs to a company.

Create a tariff on widgets. When I buy a widget, that cost is included, so ultimately, I am paying that tariff--not the company. Tax the rich--tax the businesses!!!! Okay, so we tax the people that make the flooring I plan on buying. Don't you think those taxes are included in that product when I buy it?

That's the way it all works unfortunately, and no law in the world can change that in a free country.

WE NEED CLEANER AIR!!! Okay, so now we have it. How? Because they forced truck manufacturers to put all kinds of pollution crap in these tractors and trucks. We now have to use a product called Diesel Exhaust Fluid, or DEF for short.

DEF is a separate container that squirts this crap into the exhaust pipe to make it burn cleaner. Not only that, but during the Bush years, they forced diesel fuel manufacturers to produce lower sulfur diesel fuel. Until now, diesel fuel was about a dollar a gallon more expensive than gasoline.

Trucks went up in price--about $10,000 more for a newer truck than before those pollution standards came out. And any diesel mechanic can testify that when these trucks have problems, it usually has to do with some pollution gadget going haywire, and these problems happen all the time.

Okay, so we have cleaner air and those big bad transportation companies have to pay for it!!! Wrong. Guess what my employer had to do to cover these additional expenses such as increase costs for diesel fuel, DEF fluid, higher prices for trucks, towing service when these trucks break down all the time, the repair shop to fix all this crap?


That's right, he greatly increased his prices to our customers who make our products. Those customers who make our products increase the cost of those products that you and I buy in the store every time we go shopping.

But what the hell, can't you just smell how much cleaner the air is????

Make it more expensive to import products and the companies will make them here. More jobs here and wages go up.

Make it more expensive to import products and the companies will make them here.
More jobs here and wages go up.

Make goods more expensive and people will have fewer dollars to buy other things.
Fewer jobs here and wages go down.

Moving manufacturing here created jobs.

 

[ZackB]

Somebody created and earned the wealth that exists. It sure as hell was not created by the government or the 92%.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Okay, so you institute a tariff and increase minimum wage. Who do you think ultimately pays these increases in prices?

So you grab on two of the options I mentioned? For a tariff I would first put one on services like IT, accounting and CS. Those are jobs that never should have left. Consumers pay for them, but when wages go up they can afford it.

Bottom line is that ultimately, we little people pay for those costs to a company.

Create a tariff on widgets. When I buy a widget, that cost is included, so ultimately, I am paying that tariff--not the company. Tax the rich--tax the businesses!!!! Okay, so we tax the people that make the flooring I plan on buying. Don't you think those taxes are included in that product when I buy it?

That's the way it all works unfortunately, and no law in the world can change that in a free country.

WE NEED CLEANER AIR!!! Okay, so now we have it. How? Because they forced truck manufacturers to put all kinds of pollution crap in these tractors and trucks. We now have to use a product called Diesel Exhaust Fluid, or DEF for short.

DEF is a separate container that squirts this crap into the exhaust pipe to make it burn cleaner. Not only that, but during the Bush years, they forced diesel fuel manufacturers to produce lower sulfur diesel fuel. Until now, diesel fuel was about a dollar a gallon more expensive than gasoline.

Trucks went up in price--about $10,000 more for a newer truck than before those pollution standards came out. And any diesel mechanic can testify that when these trucks have problems, it usually has to do with some pollution gadget going haywire, and these problems happen all the time.

Okay, so we have cleaner air and those big bad transportation companies have to pay for it!!! Wrong. Guess what my employer had to do to cover these additional expenses such as increase costs for diesel fuel, DEF fluid, higher prices for trucks, towing service when these trucks break down all the time, the repair shop to fix all this crap?


That's right, he greatly increased his prices to our customers who make our products. Those customers who make our products increase the cost of those products that you and I buy in the store every time we go shopping.

But what the hell, can't you just smell how much cleaner the air is????

Make it more expensive to import products and the companies will make them here. More jobs here and wages go up.

Make it more expensive to import products and the companies will make them here.
More jobs here and wages go up.

Make goods more expensive and people will have fewer dollars to buy other things.
Fewer jobs here and wages go down.

Moving manufacturing here created jobs.

Sure. And raising prices here destroys jobs.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I've never quite figured out how someone making more money then me can diminish my happiness?

Maybe it's just me?

Yeah, it is just you. Myopia does that, try to see panoptically.

No, actually the well adjusted can live happily without being overly wealthy.

I'm sorry, my comment wasn't to question your wealth or happiness - even a homeless person living in a tent can be happy. Focus on the word Panoptic, that is, permitting the viewing of all parts or elements of an issue. We can't assume the 92% are all happy with such an outcome.

Why would someone even care why someone else is rich?

I don't get it

Paranoia? Jealousy?

What?

1. CU v. FEC, CU v. McCutcheon and their impact on elections.
2. The extortion of votes from members of Congress
3. Koch Brothers annual meeting in Palm Springs
4. Plutocracy

I don't give a damn how great is the wealth of another, I do care how they use their resources.

 

[Skull Pilot]

OK so you just said anyone can improve their lot in life by making more money then you say they can't because some rich guy is not allowing them to get paid more

The rich guys are working hard to hold everyone else down. That isn't good for an economy.

The rich guys don't have the ability to hold anybody down. No rich people ever held me down, I wonder why you and not me?

I already posted several examples of large corps illegally suppressing wages.

And that does not stop you or anyone else from making more money whenever you want
Besides you do realize that settlement was a pittance to those companies and they most likely setlled not because of any guilt but that taking the issue to trial would have cost orders of magnitude more

They didn't get rich throwing away millions. They were guilty and got caught, I'm sure most don't get caught.

They settled so we really don't know what they did now do we?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The "system" is rigged, for the wealthiest to stay the wealthiest... if you can not recognize this, then you are blind, and willfully ignorant.

One of the greatest things about being in a country like this is you can be anybody you want.

If you don't need much, are lazy, and don't care about your future, you can not work and be poor.

If you have more ambition, you can be middle-class. That means you have to go go work everyday however. You probably need a skill or trade to get by, but it can be done.

If you want to live better than middle-class, then you need to open up your own business, get an advanced education, and work night and day.

And of course, if you want to be wealthy, you must do some of the things above and more, such as invest every spare dollar and dime you have. You will need to give up all those extras and focus on money only. You need to educate yourself on the stock market, real estate, the commodities market, foreign markets and so on.

But it's all up to the individual and you have to start very early in life.

Completely naive and poorly thought out. While everyone can certainly improve their lot in life, it's ridiculous to think that everyone has an equal opportunity to earn even an above average level of success let alone make it into the highest percentiles. There simply aren't enough high paying positions for that to even be possible. The idea that if people only worked hard and were diligent enough, they too could hit it big is foolish. The higher the income the more exclusive the club becomes. Why is that? Because everyone can't be a chief, the world needs Indians and a lot of them. I'm fine with that dynamic. It's the way the Indians are treated, often times unfairly and for the benefit of the chiefs, that is the problem.

So who says you have to be part of that tribe?

It's the same old argument about CEO's. If you think CEO's get paid too much money and don't do any work, why don't you become a CEO yourself? Of course the answer is because it's not that easy. It takes a lot of education, a lot of experience, a lot of getting to know politicians, a lot of getting fired from jobs, a lot of packing up your bags and traveling.

I have several people in my family that don't work for anybody. One Uncle (now retired) was a carpenter. Another Uncle ran his own remodeling business. Two of my cousins own their own remodeling business. My one cousin is an artist and runs his own business.

If you really believe that employers are taking advantage of you, then the solution is to simply work for yourself. Take up a construction trade. Learn how to be a plumber, an electrician, a bricklayer. Take courses in HVAC and work for yourself. There are a lot of things you can do besides work for somebody else.

That simple yet wages are stagnant. Think we are a country of idiots, or is it not that easy?

So if you want higher wages, make yourself worth more money to employers. If you believe all employers are offering substandard wages, then work for yourself. Buy a couple of lawnmowers, a trailer and hook it up to your SUV and mow lawns for a living.

These whiners could never work for themselves because then they'd have no one to blame for their failures

 

[Skull Pilot]

The system was not designed for average working folk to get ahead. Capitalists are those with a lot of money. Capitalism is about the wealthy. Did your economics teacher not teach you this?

I could show you a way that any family could in just a couple generations be wealthy
Or how 200 a month could make you wealthy

BUt you probably don't want to hear it because you think some rich guy is stopping you

 

[Skull Pilot]

What's slowing our economy are the illegals and foreigners that come here and work for lower wages. What's slowing our economy is that we have over 93 million Americans of working age that are not working nor looking for a job. What's slowing our economy is government and their regulations. But the biggest thing slowing down our economy is that we consumers will not support American workers. We will buy the cheapest of just about anything to save a buck.

Wages are stagnant, of course people are cheap. An economy slows when there is too much inequality.

An economy slows when there is too much inequality.

How do you fix inequality? Higher taxes? More regulation?

Give more power to the workers. We are definitely hurting from the decline of unions. We need to better police companies to stop the collusion. I would actually decrease Corp taxes in return for higher wages and benefits for employees. I think we need to stop importing workers and some well placed tariffs might help. Maybe raise minimum wage, though I prefer the other things mentioned.

We are definitely hurting from the decline of unions.

Unions are the worst. We need to outlaw government unions.

I think we need to stop importing workers and some well placed tariffs might help.

Boot 15 million illegals, wages will rise. Unemployment will tank.
Tariffs just help the connected. Like the Fanjul family benefits from sugar tariffs.

Maybe raise minimum wage,

Boot the illegals, enforce E-Verify, companies would have to pay more than the minimum to get workers.

Unions the worst? You must be joking. The decline in unions has only been bad for us.

It's only been bad for mediocre workers who now don;t get their unwarranted raises and protection from being shit canned

 

[Skull Pilot]

The "system" is rigged, for the wealthiest to stay the wealthiest... if you can not recognize this, then you are blind, and willfully ignorant.

One of the greatest things about being in a country like this is you can be anybody you want.

If you don't need much, are lazy, and don't care about your future, you can not work and be poor.

If you have more ambition, you can be middle-class. That means you have to go go work everyday however. You probably need a skill or trade to get by, but it can be done.

If you want to live better than middle-class, then you need to open up your own business, get an advanced education, and work night and day.

And of course, if you want to be wealthy, you must do some of the things above and more, such as invest every spare dollar and dime you have. You will need to give up all those extras and focus on money only. You need to educate yourself on the stock market, real estate, the commodities market, foreign markets and so on.

But it's all up to the individual and you have to start very early in life.

Completely naive and poorly thought out. While everyone can certainly improve their lot in life, it's ridiculous to think that everyone has an equal opportunity to earn even an above average level of success let alone make it into the highest percentiles. There simply aren't enough high paying positions for that to even be possible. The idea that if people only worked hard and were diligent enough, they too could hit it big is foolish. The higher the income the more exclusive the club becomes. Why is that? Because everyone can't be a chief, the world needs Indians and a lot of them. I'm fine with that dynamic. It's the way the Indians are treated, often times unfairly and for the benefit of the chiefs, that is the problem.

So who says you have to be part of that tribe?

It's the same old argument about CEO's. If you think CEO's get paid too much money and don't do any work, why don't you become a CEO yourself? Of course the answer is because it's not that easy. It takes a lot of education, a lot of experience, a lot of getting to know politicians, a lot of getting fired from jobs, a lot of packing up your bags and traveling.

I have several people in my family that don't work for anybody. One Uncle (now retired) was a carpenter. Another Uncle ran his own remodeling business. Two of my cousins own their own remodeling business. My one cousin is an artist and runs his own business.

If you really believe that employers are taking advantage of you, then the solution is to simply work for yourself. Take up a construction trade. Learn how to be a plumber, an electrician, a bricklayer. Take courses in HVAC and work for yourself. There are a lot of things you can do besides work for somebody else.

I said nothing about CEO's. I never said it impacted me personally either. You don't read so well. Do you believe that everyone in America can earn 100K if they wanted to?

Maybe but I do know that anyone can earn more money starting tomorrow if they want

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can give me the stats you want. I think our system is the best out there bar none. But I also am well versed on the fallacies that

1). If you are willing to work hard and sacrifice you can be wealthy....UNTRUE. A lot of people have very strong work ethics....they are barely making it.

2) you can become wealthy starting at the bottom. TRUE. But only a miniscule percentage...less than 1 percent will do that.

3). It takes a lot of money to make a lot of money...TRUE...VERY TRUE

4). I remember my dad many moons ago telling me if you can simply survive this mess that's the american dream. TRUE.

5) capitalism is based on those who have acquired much wealth. I
INDISPUTABLE.

It does not take a lot of money to make a lot of money

If you and your spouse save just 200 a month each by the time you retire you'll have a lot of money (to the tune of 1 million plus)

If you got together with other members of your family and started a trust and all contributed 200 a month each in 2 generations your family would be extremely wealthy

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Okay, so you institute a tariff and increase minimum wage. Who do you think ultimately pays these increases in prices?

So you grab on two of the options I mentioned? For a tariff I would first put one on services like IT, accounting and CS. Those are jobs that never should have left. Consumers pay for them, but when wages go up they can afford it.

Bottom line is that ultimately, we little people pay for those costs to a company.

Create a tariff on widgets. When I buy a widget, that cost is included, so ultimately, I am paying that tariff--not the company. Tax the rich--tax the businesses!!!! Okay, so we tax the people that make the flooring I plan on buying. Don't you think those taxes are included in that product when I buy it?

That's the way it all works unfortunately, and no law in the world can change that in a free country.

WE NEED CLEANER AIR!!! Okay, so now we have it. How? Because they forced truck manufacturers to put all kinds of pollution crap in these tractors and trucks. We now have to use a product called Diesel Exhaust Fluid, or DEF for short.

DEF is a separate container that squirts this crap into the exhaust pipe to make it burn cleaner. Not only that, but during the Bush years, they forced diesel fuel manufacturers to produce lower sulfur diesel fuel. Until now, diesel fuel was about a dollar a gallon more expensive than gasoline.

Trucks went up in price--about $10,000 more for a newer truck than before those pollution standards came out. And any diesel mechanic can testify that when these trucks have problems, it usually has to do with some pollution gadget going haywire, and these problems happen all the time.

Okay, so we have cleaner air and those big bad transportation companies have to pay for it!!! Wrong. Guess what my employer had to do to cover these additional expenses such as increase costs for diesel fuel, DEF fluid, higher prices for trucks, towing service when these trucks break down all the time, the repair shop to fix all this crap?


That's right, he greatly increased his prices to our customers who make our products. Those customers who make our products increase the cost of those products that you and I buy in the store every time we go shopping.

But what the hell, can't you just smell how much cleaner the air is????

Make it more expensive to import products and the companies will make them here. More jobs here and wages go up.

Make it more expensive to import products and the companies will make them here.
More jobs here and wages go up.

Make goods more expensive and people will have fewer dollars to buy other things.
Fewer jobs here and wages go down.

Moving manufacturing here created jobs.

If you really believe that moving manufacturing back here creates jobs, then first you have to ask yourself why they moved away in the first place. If you can answer yourself that riddle, then what we need to do is take steps to make it more inviting for manufacturing to move back here.

If you do any research, don't read what the politicians have to say about it, read what the business owners have to say about it. Politicians won't give you a clue.

 

[Brain357]

The rich guys are working hard to hold everyone else down. That isn't good for an economy.

The rich guys don't have the ability to hold anybody down. No rich people ever held me down, I wonder why you and not me?

I already posted several examples of large corps illegally suppressing wages.

And that does not stop you or anyone else from making more money whenever you want
Besides you do realize that settlement was a pittance to those companies and they most likely setlled not because of any guilt but that taking the issue to trial would have cost orders of magnitude more

They didn't get rich throwing away millions. They were guilty and got caught, I'm sure most don't get caught.

They settled so we really don't know what they did now do we?

We know they were guilty.