True history of the birther movement: Telegraph UK 2011

[Skylar]

Misprints are also corrected when information is re-published.

When they are found. Show us when Acton & Dystel found the mistake.....with evidence. They changed their website in 2007. Which is a rather strong indication of when they found the mistake.

If you have better evidence, present it.

Logic suggests he gave them information to Goderich himself.

Nope. As it makes no sense. There were half a dozen well known articles about Obama before the pamphlet in such publications as the NY Times, LA Times, Boston Globe, Chicago Herald and Vanity Fair. And whenever Obama's birth is cited, its Hawaii.

Obama's own autobiography which came after the pamphlet cited Hawaii.

The State of Hawaii affirms Obama was born in Hawaii. As did numerous news sources after the pamphlet.

When dozens of sources cite Hawaii....and one obscure pamphlet cites somewhere else, a mistake is the most logical conclusion. Especially when the person that put the pamphlet together affirms it was a mistake and that Obama never told her he was born in Kenya.

Your conclusion is thus wildly illogical and contradicted by overwhelming evidence. But then you're a birther. So....what can we expect?

 

[Steve_McGarrett]

There are two problems here. First, it is industry standard procedure for an author to provide their own bio. After all, they are the writer, and who knows them better than themselves. And even Miriam herself says that she “edited the text of the bio” and “fact checked it”. Semantics – she never says she wrote it. In fact, on the Dystel & Goderich website, part of the “non fiction submission guidelines” is a “formal narrative bio of the author”.

Nonfiction Proposal Guidelines

The second problem is that it is not just a brochure published in 1991. The same bio was present on the Acton & Dystel and later Dystel & Goderich website starting in 1998. And it stayed there, and was edited during that time. It added that he was was the Junior Democratic Senator from Illinois, and that he was also the Keynote speaker at the 2004 Democratic Convention. It said “born in Kenya” until April of 2007, even though someone was obviously very diligent about updating it to add important new details.

Does anyone believe that Miriam Goderich was just updating all her clients bios for years, without once asking for an approval or asking for permission to make the changes? The answer is no. Do you think that Obama never ONCE looked at his bio in 16 years? The bottom line is he was aware of it and was concerned with keeping is up to date and accurate. He wrote it and maintained the “born in Kenya” until such time as it became important (running for president and having to become a natural born citizen) to have not been born in Kenya. From April 2007 on, he was “born in Hawaii”. Gee, what a coincidence.

June 27, 1998

Sept 1, 2005----Junior senator and keynote speaker added. Still born in Kenya

March 2007.

Wow, July 27, 2007, a miracle happens, after deciding to become a natural born citizen to be able to run for president, he is now all the sudden reborn in Hawaii lol.

 

[Skylar]

[quot

There are two problems here. First, it is industry standard procedure for an author to provide their own bio. After all, they are the writer, and who knows them better than themselves. And even Miriam herself says that she “edited the text of the bio” and “fact checked it”. Semantics – she never says she wrote it. In fact, on the Dystel & Goderich website, part of the “non fiction submission guidelines” is a “formal narrative bio of the author”.

Nonfiction Proposal Guidelines

That's not what your source says.

Finally, there should be a more formal narrative Bio of the author.

Nonfiction Proposal Guidelines

It doesn't say who writes it. And this isn't the same company that represented Obama, but one that was made later.

The second problem is that it is not just a brochure published in 1991. The same bio was present on the Acton & Dystel and later Dystel & Goderich website starting in 1998. And it stayed there, and was edited during that time. It added that he was was the Junior Democratic Senator from Illinois, and that he was also the Keynote speaker at the 2004 Democratic Convention. It said “born in Kenya” until April of 2007, even though someone was obviously very diligent about updating it to add important new details.

Why would they change it if they didn't know of the mistake? Again, this is a pamphlet and web entry so obscure that even breitbart had never heard of it until 2012.

Does anyone believe that Miriam Goderich was just updating all her clients bios for years, without once asking for an approval or asking for permission to make the changes?

Who says she was updating the information. Remember, dip.....Goderich is a PARTNER in the literary agency

1) Why would a partner be updating the website?
2) They wouldn't be 'updating' anything. They'd be cutting and pasting text. Not fact checking it.

You know, like you just did with your claim. You didn't fact check it. You simply cut and paste it. From here;

Obama document fraud | Accidental Patriot

Once again, with Obama's own biography and numerous news articles citing Obama's place of birth as Hawaii....along with the State of Hawaii itself....why would they continue to have Kenya as his place of birth if it wasn't a mistake?

Your narrative doesn't make the slightest sense. But then, you're just cutting and pasting it. So I wouldn't expect you to fact check it.

 

[Syriusly]

From the news reports that brought Barack Obama to the agencies attention in the first place.

You confuse your refusing to accept anyone else's answer with not being given one.

Both Skylar and I have pointed out that the biographical information about Barack Obama was available in national media reports- the same reports which likely brought Barack Obama to their attention.

But what you still haven't provided is any proof for your claims that Barack Obama was the first Birther.

None- nada- zilch-zero.

So why do you keep making the same lies- over and over......?

Being in the "national media" doesn't answer the question. The national media is huge. You're begging the question still and just having it appear in your hands. Since you aren't talking to the author ...

How do you find it?

The same way Vanity Fair did when they referenced the NY Times article in their 1990 piece about Obama.

Something you insist can't be done. And Venity Fair demonstrates most definitely could be.

Now....the questions that send you screaming like the were carrying a butcher knife:

1) Who claims Obama told them he was born in Kenya?"

2) Why would they have agreed to represent Obama if they didn't know anything about him?

3) Why wouldn't they have read all they could on the man before agreeing to represent him?

You keep running, I'll keep laughing. You're always great for the endorphins!

you raise a good point sky, where did Kenya come from.

Apparently Miriam Goderich got the birth place of Barack Hussein Obama confused with the birth place of Barack Hussein Obama.

Why didn't she say that? Why is it suddenly speculation is OK when you are doing it?

Yep- now we are back to what happens when Kaz demands that we speculate like him- and then when we do- he claims that makes his speculation okay.

 

[Syriusly]

Misprints are also corrected when information is re-published. Acton & Dystel re-published the Obama biography time after time over several years with that detail remaining unchanged. How does that happen? If I had an agent who was misrepresenting my origin of birth, I’d sure as heck let him know about it and make sure the information was corrected. Barack Obama didn’t. Why? Logic suggests he gave them information to Goderich himself.

When did Barack Obama see the mistake?
When did Goderich find out about the mistake?

Again- there is no evidence that anyone was aware of the mistake until Breitbart pointed it out- despite 4 years of Birther 'research' no birther found this obscure brochure- so why do you assume anyone noticed the mistake before Breittbart did?

 

[kaz]

So I'm curious when you keep saying I "lied." Do you know what a lie" is? You think I know that Obama didn't say he was born in Hawaii? I know you think he wasn't because you have Obama's cock so deep in your mouth that it cuts off the air and you lose the ability to think.

But how do you know that I don't believe he said he was born in Kenya? In fact, I know that I do think that.

I'm curious why you keep running from cartoon simple questions like...

Who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

Its been months....and you've never been able to cite a single person backing your silly turd of an argument. You can't even explain why the Literary Agency would have agreed to represent Obama if they knew nothing about him.

I have inside information. What's your evidence that I don't think Obama ever said it?

You have nothing. You can't even name a single person who claims Obama told them he was born in Kenya.

Your argument, as always, is poorly thought through baseless nonsense backed by nothing.

Yes, thinking someone writing a biography about someone would talk to them is "poorly thought through baseless nonsense," you mentioned that.

And per the woman who worked at the Agency in 1991 and put the pamphlet together, Obama never said he was born in Kenya:

This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time," Goderich wrote. "There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more."

Oblirating your batshit conspiracy theory. As you have nothing but your imagination to back your narrative. A narrative that doesn't make the slightest sense.

What you did not mention and you keep running and hiding from is how without talking to authors they would find any of that information.

The same way Vanity Fair did when they cited the NY Times article in their feature about Obama. Something you insist couldn't be done. Yet Vanity Fair did.

Demonstrating that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sigh...again.

Your argument has degenerated into the Literary Agency not knowing a thing about Obama, being completely ignorant of his national media profile, being completely ignorant the numerous articles written about him in the NY Times, LA Times, Vanity Fair, Boston Globe, and Chicago Herald.....nor ever reading anyo f these articles, yes somehow finding Obama and agreeing to represent him.

That's the stupidest fucking argument I've ever heard. Why wouldn't they read up on Obama before agreeing to represent him?

You can't answer and avoid the question like it was on fire. Just like you avoid the same question that broke your argument weeks ago:

Q: Who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

A: No one.

And 'poof'......your little turd of an argument collapses again.

I know you're going to run away and hide again, but let's give it a go one more time. You have a name of an unknown author and a blank piece of paper. Your job is to write a bio about them. How do you go about finding these blurbs you assume describe every author's life. Stop begging the question and assuming they exist and you found them. The question is how do you find them?

Read the numerous newspaper articles written about him. Which I've already demonstrated are accessible with the Vanity Fair piece that referenced the NY Times article.

Now I'll ask you the same question you've run from a dozen times: Why would the Literary Agency have agreed to represent Obama without knowing a thing about him?

Laughing.....keep running, Kaz.

Skylar? Dude? Where did you go?

You posted at 2:45 am.

Yet you can't use your judgment figure out where I might be or what I might be doing in the middle of the night. But bizarrely you expect us to rely on this exact same judgment regarding an obscure bio blurb from 1991 that you know nothing about?

Laughing.....you can't fix stupid.

You just keep evading the same questions. That Vanity fair cited articles about an author isn't an answer.

Of course its an answer. You insist there is no way for the NY Times articles and others to be researched. The Vanity Fair article cites the NY Times article in explicit contradiction of your batshit assumption:

The new president of the Harvard Law Review was somewhat taken aback by the deluge of media coverage that followed hard on the heels of his election. The New York Times ran a “First Black” headline, which probably won’t be the last time that label is affixed to Barack Obama..

Harvard Law Reviewed

If the NY Times article couldn't be researched.....how did Vanity Fair manage the task? I've provided irrefutable evidence that the article could be referenced and found. You have to prove that it couldn't have been found by the literary agency.

And you can't. Leaving your latest conspiracy in the same pile of horseshit as your last. Oh, and speaking of evading the same questions:

1) Who claims that Obama said he was born in Kenya?

2) Why would the literary agency agreed to represent Obama if they didn't know anything about him?

3) Why wouldn't the Literary agency read anything they could get their hands on regarding Obama before agreeing to represent him?

Keep running. Your rout only makes me giggle.

Oh cut the crap and address the question. Saying the NY Times could be researched is just an empty, sweeping statement.

It was incredibly difficult to do research like that then. I actually did it and I don't have any idea how you'd search for blurbs in papers on unknown authors. So you're talking to someone unlike yourself, someone who knows what they are talking about.

I have no idea how in 1991 you would find blurbs on unknown authors. Tell me since you're claiming they did. I did research then, finding stories was incredibly tedious and no one was indexing unknown people in the paper. So straight up, statue to panda, I'm asking how you'd do it. It's your chance to school me

 

[kaz]

Again, dim witted moron, you keep saying where the references are. that isn't the question. The question is how in 1991 you find them. You really are just flat out stupid, you can't even comprehend the question

Repeatedly answered- just a partisan idiot like you won't accept anything other than your own fantasy.

How would I find them- as I have said before:

• If I were Miriam Goodrich, I would find them in the New York Times- since she lived in the NY area- which would have brought Barack Obama to her attention in the first place.
• If I were Miriam Goodrich, I would find them in Columbia Today, since she got her Master's degree at Columbia, would get the alumni magazine, and which would have brought Barack Obama to her attention in the first place.
• If I was looking for additional information I would go to the New York Central Library and do basic research- I went to college in the 1980's- and even then there were indexes of articles on people- but the first place I would have looked at was "Who's Who in America".
• And if I was a literary agent who really wanted to know about all of the press on a person I would have contacted a press clipping service- which is what people did before the internet

Meanwhile- where is your evidence that Barack Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya

Day 11- and wait for Kaz to stop lying about Barack Obama continues.

Let's focus on your first bullet. How would you find it in the NY Times?

It's 1991, I give you a name. How would you find any articles about them in the NY Times?

Let's focus on my last point:

Where is your evidence that Barack Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya

Sure. It was in his biography. Now focus on my last point:

Save the person that put the 90 word bio blurb together affirms that Obama never told he her he as born in Kenya:

This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time," Goderich wrote. "There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more."

So who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

Its been *weeks*. And you've never been able to cite a single person who backs up your bullshit. Its just you......citing yourself.

And you're nobody.

It's 1991, I give you a name. How would you find any articles about them in the NY Times?

The same way that Vanity Fair did when they cited the NY Times article in VF's 1990 feature on Obama.

The new president of the Harvard Law Review was somewhat taken aback by the deluge of media coverage that followed hard on the heels of his election. The New York Times ran a “First Black” headline, which probably won’t be the last time that label is affixed to Barack Obama.

You insist this can't be done. Vanity Fair irrefutably did it. Demonstrating once again.....you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

You know vanity fair didn't talk to Obama how? Did they do a vague, non specific statement like the Miriam one you swallow too?

 

[kaz]

LOL, "obfuscate," where did you hear that one? It's the biggest word I've ever seen you use.

What was unclear about my question? My question was how you people know that I actually believe Obama didn't say that since you are saying when I say he told his publisher that he was born in Kenya it's a "lie." For a little girl with a big word, what about that question is unclear to you?

I think of Kaz now when I watch this movie...

Yes, thinking that someone writing a biology about someone would talk to them. Obviously I'm lying when I say I think that.

So I notice you didn't answer the question Skylar keeps hiding from too. You sit down to write a bio about someone. It's 1991. They are unknown other than possibly some blurbs which could be spread across the country. How do you find them without talking to the author? How do you even know if you find a blurb it's about that specific person not someone with the same name? The claim you're backing is that it was their usual process, not just one for Barack Bin Laden Obama. I mean Barack Hussein Obama

Seawytch? Where'd you go? Seawytch?

Kaz, you dance, you dodge, but in the end, you are nothing but birther light. You think President Obama told someone he was born in Kenya, despite that individual saying unequivocally, that he did not. Are you sure you're not supporting Trump? You sound just like his fans.

LOL, you ignore my question then say I "dodge." Let me help you, here's the question you didn't answer while you said I was dodging:

You sit down to write a bio about someone. It's 1991. They are unknown other than possibly some blurbs which could be spread across the country. How do you find them without talking to the author?

You read the newspaper articles about him, duh.

And Trump supporters say Obama lied and said he was born in Kenya but he was actually born in Hawaii. I haven't heard that, link?

You do.

Begging the question. My question was how do you find those articles. No one was indexing references to unknown people then. So how did you find those articles without the author to tell you what to look for?

 

[kaz]

Wow, Queen Elizabeth, so the British people think I lied that he said he was born in Kenya? Why would the British Empire care about that since your people have no such rule and a bunch of British Monarchs were in fact born outside Britain?

Do tell, I love culture and history ..

Since your post has nothing to do with mine- I will just respond with my post again- since it is as accurate as before:

Kaz- So far the only lie we have clearly identified is your lie that Barack Obama said he was born in Kenya

Yet you have not even a theory of who else would make up that he was born in Kenya and put it in his bio without talking to him. All you have so far is it magically appeared and a flamingly incompetent researcher didn't bother to do her job and fact check a 90 word bio.

Do you imagine frequently that words just appear on paper and all humans have to do is fact check them? And since her own story is she flat out doesn't do her job, why would we believe her? I've never noticed any particular affinity for truth either lazy or incompetent people have. In fact it's generally the reverse

I don't need a 'theory' to explain how someone made a mistake. I see people make mistakes every day.

You say we can't believe Goodrich- who actually knows the facts- and then you make up a story about Barack Obama telling her that he was born in Kenya.

Why would we believe you? You have demonstrated over and over and over that you are fine with ignoring the facts and posting your own fantasy as a fact.

She didn't make a "mistake," fact checking was her job and she didn't fact a 90 word bio for basic facts. Why would be believe a self admitted idiot incompetent? And she didn't even say he didn't tell anyone at the firm, just he didn't tell some unnamed group of people she called "us." And she didn't say who did say he was born in Kenya. It was an explanation you could drive several trucks through. Why did she do that if he was innocent?

She said she did. She knows what happened- all you know is what she has told you. Everything else is the product of your fertile imagination.

You keep demanding that everyone else join in on your fantasy.

But it keeps coming back to this- there is absolutely no evidence that Barack Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya

And the only evidence we have is that he didn't tell Miriam Goodrich that he was born in Kenya

So if they know "anything about him" then they don't need to ask him any questions. Got it.

You realize you just stepped into a trap though of your own making. So he didn't tell them he was born in Kenya when they were writing his bio. They asked him when they hired him. I'll stipulate to that, it still makes him the first birther

Laughing......nope. You did.

As your entire argument is predicated on the Literary Agency never reading any of the numerous articles about Obama in the NY Times, the LA Times, Vanity Fair, the Chicago Herald and others ....nor even being aware they exist. Nor having the slightest clue about his national media profile.

That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. Nor does it make the slightest sense.

Um....how would they have learned of Obama, who lived in Chicago.....while they're in NY? Why would they have agreed to represent Obama if they didn't know anything about him? Why wouldn't they have read all they could on the man before agreeing to represent him?

Laughing......you've painted yourself into a corner, Kaz. As your argument is bone stupid. And you know it.

You said that before, he wasn't interviewed about his background later, he was interviewed about it up front. He lied about Kenya when they hired him, not when they wrote the bio. That works, I already told you that. So we have established he was the original birther, just as I said

You pulling your pet theory out of your ass doesn't establish anything other than you pull crap out of your ass and call it a fact.

Here is a fact:

"There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii."

Here is a lie:

Kaz: So we have established he was the original birther, just as I said

That's not a "fact" that is a statement, and an intentionally ambiguous one

And you 'know' it was 'intentionally ambiguous' how?

From the same source that told you that Barack Obama told the publisher he was born in Kenya?

LOL

Here is a fact- this is a statement by a person who has first hand knowledge of what happened

"There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii."

Here is a lie- by someone who has no first hand knowledge, and is just claiming his fantasy is a fact.

Kaz: So we have established he was the original birther, just as I said

Nowhere did she say who wrote that he was born in Kenya, all she said was it was a "fact checking error." Did it appear out of the air?

She also never said he didn't tell anyone at the firm. She said he didn't tell "us." To you, "us" is just you. How do you know she didn't mean it that way too?

 

[kaz]

Again, dim witted moron, you keep saying where the references are. that isn't the question. The question is how in 1991 you find them. You really are just flat out stupid, you can't even comprehend the question

Repeatedly answered- just a partisan idiot like you won't accept anything other than your own fantasy.

How would I find them- as I have said before:

• If I were Miriam Goodrich, I would find them in the New York Times- since she lived in the NY area- which would have brought Barack Obama to her attention in the first place.
• If I were Miriam Goodrich, I would find them in Columbia Today, since she got her Master's degree at Columbia, would get the alumni magazine, and which would have brought Barack Obama to her attention in the first place.
• If I was looking for additional information I would go to the New York Central Library and do basic research- I went to college in the 1980's- and even then there were indexes of articles on people- but the first place I would have looked at was "Who's Who in America".
• And if I was a literary agent who really wanted to know about all of the press on a person I would have contacted a press clipping service- which is what people did before the internet

Meanwhile- where is your evidence that Barack Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya

Day 11- and wait for Kaz to stop lying about Barack Obama continues.

Let's focus on your first bullet. How would you find it in the NY Times?

It's 1991, I give you a name. How would you find any articles about them in the NY Times?

Let's focus on my last point:

Where is your evidence that Barack Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya

Sure. It was in his biography. Now focus on my last point:

No- Barack Obama's biography notes that he was born in Hawaii

"Dreams from My Father" 1995-mentions a couple times that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

And?

 

[kaz]

Laughing......nope. You did.

As your entire argument is predicated on the Literary Agency never reading any of the numerous articles about Obama in the NY Times, the LA Times, Vanity Fair, the Chicago Herald and others ....nor even being aware they exist. Nor having the slightest clue about his national media profile.

That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. Nor does it make the slightest sense.

Um....how would they have learned of Obama, who lived in Chicago.....while they're in NY? Why would they have agreed to represent Obama if they didn't know anything about him? Why wouldn't they have read all they could on the man before agreeing to represent him?

Laughing......you've painted yourself into a corner, Kaz. As your argument is bone stupid. And you know it.

You said that before, he wasn't interviewed about his background later, he was interviewed about it up front. He lied about Kenya when they hired him, not when they wrote the bio. That works, I already told you that. So we have established he was the original birther, just as I said

You pulling your pet theory out of your ass doesn't establish anything other than you pull crap out of your ass and call it a fact.

Here is a fact:

"There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii."

Here is a lie:

Kaz: So we have established he was the original birther, just as I said

Yup. Kaz is a liar. He can't back any of his claims with evidence. And he knows it. All while being contradicted by overwhelming evidence. And of course, his entire narrative is just bone stupid.

As why would the Literary Agency have agreed to represent Obama if they knew nothing about him? How would they even know he existed?

Its the stupidest fucking argument I've ever heard. And the birthers have produced some stunningly stupid arguments.

Yes, I think when you write a bio about someone you talk to them, you think you do it without talking to them.

I think if you're writing one of dozens of 90 word bio blurbs in a hurry, you just look at articles on the topic. Its far quicker and easier than scheduling an interview.

And since Miriam Goderich has already affirmed that Obama never told her he was born in Kenya......your entire narrative is your imagination. So....

Who claims Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

Why would the literary agency agree to represent Obama if they didn't know a thing about him?

And why would wouldn't the literary agency have read all they could on Obama before agreeing to represent him?

Keep running. If your claims had merit.....you wouldn't have to run.

Where anyone was born is one of the most basic facts in any bio. It's also one of the most difficult to find without ... asking the author.

One of my daughters moved from her birth State of Maryland when she was two. The other left her birth State of New York when she was 1 1/2 ... months ... old. And you were going to find that how?

I was working on my masters degrees during that time and doing a lot of research for my papers. It was incredibly tedious. I have no idea how you'd have found that then. Obviously neither do you

 

[Steve_McGarrett]

There is only one at for me to get to the bottom of this, talk to Goderich myself. I will attempt to contact her and get to the bottom of this and get the real truth out of her.

 

[kaz]

Wouldn't that be enough to make my claim that Kaz is a racist 'truish'- you know- like Kaz keeps claiming about President Obama?

Bye bye

 

[kaz]

Again, dim witted moron, you keep saying where the references are. that isn't the question. The question is how in 1991 you find them. You really are just flat out stupid, you can't even comprehend the question

Repeatedly answered- just a partisan idiot like you won't accept anything other than your own fantasy.

How would I find them- as I have said before:

• If I were Miriam Goodrich, I would find them in the New York Times- since she lived in the NY area- which would have brought Barack Obama to her attention in the first place.
• If I were Miriam Goodrich, I would find them in Columbia Today, since she got her Master's degree at Columbia, would get the alumni magazine, and which would have brought Barack Obama to her attention in the first place.
• If I was looking for additional information I would go to the New York Central Library and do basic research- I went to college in the 1980's- and even then there were indexes of articles on people- but the first place I would have looked at was "Who's Who in America".
• And if I was a literary agent who really wanted to know about all of the press on a person I would have contacted a press clipping service- which is what people did before the internet

Meanwhile- where is your evidence that Barack Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya

Day 11- and wait for Kaz to stop lying about Barack Obama continues.

Let's focus on your first bullet. How would you find it in the NY Times?

It's 1991, I give you a name. How would you find any articles about them in the NY Times?

The same way that Vanity Fair did when they cited the NY Times article about Obama in VF's 1990 piece about Obama.

Something you insist couldn't be done. Something Vanity Fair demonstrated most definitely could.

So...who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

Why would the literary agency agree to represent obama if they didn't know a thing about him?

Why wouldn't the literary agency have read all they could about the man before agreeing to represent him?

Keep running. You've got no answers. And we both know it

I'm glad you know what I think, thanks for letting me know.

I certainly know what sends you running:


Who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

Why would the literary agency agree to represent obama if they didn't know a thing about him?

Why wouldn't the literary agency have read all they could about the man before agreeing to represent him?

Tuck your tail back between those quivering haunches......and keep running. As neither your desperate rout nor the questions are going anywhere.

Vanity Fair could have done what I said, asked him.

That would have made them *aware* of the article. But not what it said. They cited the NY Times article.

You insist that this was something that couldn't be done in 1991. That there was no way to research articles, that the literary agency that represented Obama was neither aware nor had ever read any of the numerous articles about Obama in the NY Times, the LA Times, the Chicago Herald, Boston Globe or Vanity Fair.

Which is the stupidest fucking argument I've ever heard. Prove any of your batshit. As I've already demonstated that news articles were accessible.....as Vanity Fair irrefutably did exactly that. And it makes no sense. Why would they have agreed to represent Obama if they didn't know a damn thing about him?

How would they have even learned of Obama?

You can't say. So you flee. And I laugh. See how your rout works?

There is one possible source of his publisher saying he was born in Kenya, you can't say who besides him did that. And Miriam didn't cop to it, she just said she didn't "fact check" it

 

[kaz]

Being in the "national media" doesn't answer the question. The national media is huge. You're begging the question still and just having it appear in your hands. Since you aren't talking to the author ...

How do you find it?

The same way Vanity Fair did when they referenced the NY Times article in their 1990 piece about Obama.

Something you insist can't be done. And Venity Fair demonstrates most definitely could be.

Now....the questions that send you screaming like the were carrying a butcher knife:

1) Who claims Obama told them he was born in Kenya?"

2) Why would they have agreed to represent Obama if they didn't know anything about him?

3) Why wouldn't they have read all they could on the man before agreeing to represent him?

You keep running, I'll keep laughing. You're always great for the endorphins!

you raise a good point sky, where did Kenya come from.

Apparently Miriam Goderich got the birth place of Barack Hussein Obama confused with the birth place of Barack Hussein Obama.

Why didn't she say that? Why is it suddenly speculation is OK when you are doing it?

Because I'm not contradicting her, claiming that I know better. My speculation fits her account perfectly.

Yours doesn't. You say Obama said he was born in Kenya. Miriam Goderich explicitly contradicts you:

This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time," Goderich wrote. "There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more."

But you know better, huh? You've even invented an elaborate backstory, backed by jack shit.

So who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

You keep running from this cartoon simple question. And we both know the answer: No one. If your argument had merit, you wouldn't have to run.

Actually, no, Miriam didn't contradict anything I said. And she didn't substantiate what you said. That's why she made the vague statement, so she couldn't be caught in a lie

 

[Skylar]

I'm curious why you keep running from cartoon simple questions like...

Who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

Its been months....and you've never been able to cite a single person backing your silly turd of an argument. You can't even explain why the Literary Agency would have agreed to represent Obama if they knew nothing about him.

You have nothing. You can't even name a single person who claims Obama told them he was born in Kenya.

Your argument, as always, is poorly thought through baseless nonsense backed by nothing.

Yes, thinking someone writing a biography about someone would talk to them is "poorly thought through baseless nonsense," you mentioned that.

And per the woman who worked at the Agency in 1991 and put the pamphlet together, Obama never said he was born in Kenya:

This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time," Goderich wrote. "There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more."

Oblirating your batshit conspiracy theory. As you have nothing but your imagination to back your narrative. A narrative that doesn't make the slightest sense.

What you did not mention and you keep running and hiding from is how without talking to authors they would find any of that information.

The same way Vanity Fair did when they cited the NY Times article in their feature about Obama. Something you insist couldn't be done. Yet Vanity Fair did.

Demonstrating that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sigh...again.

Your argument has degenerated into the Literary Agency not knowing a thing about Obama, being completely ignorant of his national media profile, being completely ignorant the numerous articles written about him in the NY Times, LA Times, Vanity Fair, Boston Globe, and Chicago Herald.....nor ever reading anyo f these articles, yes somehow finding Obama and agreeing to represent him.

That's the stupidest fucking argument I've ever heard. Why wouldn't they read up on Obama before agreeing to represent him?

You can't answer and avoid the question like it was on fire. Just like you avoid the same question that broke your argument weeks ago:

Q: Who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

A: No one.

And 'poof'......your little turd of an argument collapses again.

I know you're going to run away and hide again, but let's give it a go one more time. You have a name of an unknown author and a blank piece of paper. Your job is to write a bio about them. How do you go about finding these blurbs you assume describe every author's life. Stop begging the question and assuming they exist and you found them. The question is how do you find them?

Read the numerous newspaper articles written about him. Which I've already demonstrated are accessible with the Vanity Fair piece that referenced the NY Times article.

Now I'll ask you the same question you've run from a dozen times: Why would the Literary Agency have agreed to represent Obama without knowing a thing about him?

Laughing.....keep running, Kaz.

Skylar? Dude? Where did you go?

You posted at 2:45 am.

Yet you can't use your judgment figure out where I might be or what I might be doing in the middle of the night. But bizarrely you expect us to rely on this exact same judgment regarding an obscure bio blurb from 1991 that you know nothing about?

Laughing.....you can't fix stupid.

You just keep evading the same questions. That Vanity fair cited articles about an author isn't an answer.

Of course its an answer. You insist there is no way for the NY Times articles and others to be researched. The Vanity Fair article cites the NY Times article in explicit contradiction of your batshit assumption:

The new president of the Harvard Law Review was somewhat taken aback by the deluge of media coverage that followed hard on the heels of his election. The New York Times ran a “First Black” headline, which probably won’t be the last time that label is affixed to Barack Obama..

Harvard Law Reviewed

If the NY Times article couldn't be researched.....how did Vanity Fair manage the task? I've provided irrefutable evidence that the article could be referenced and found. You have to prove that it couldn't have been found by the literary agency.

And you can't. Leaving your latest conspiracy in the same pile of horseshit as your last. Oh, and speaking of evading the same questions:

1) Who claims that Obama said he was born in Kenya?

2) Why would the literary agency agreed to represent Obama if they didn't know anything about him?

3) Why wouldn't the Literary agency read anything they could get their hands on regarding Obama before agreeing to represent him?

Keep running. Your rout only makes me giggle.

Oh cut the crap and address the question. Saying the NY Times could be researched is just an empty, sweeping statement.

Its an explicit contradiction of your assumption. I've demonstrated that the NY Times could be researched in 1991. With citations.

Now you prove that the literary agency couldn't have researched any of the numerous articles on Obama. And that they didn't have any knowledge of the NY Times, LA Times, Chicago Herald, Vanity Fair or Boston Globe articles. Nor any knowledge of Obama's national media profile before agreeing to represent him.

And explain why the literary agency would have represented Obama if they didn't know a thing about him.

And explain why the literary agency wouldn't have read everything they could get their hands on regarding Obama before agreeing to represent him.

And lastly, tell us who claims Obama told them he was born in Kenya.

You can't. You're done.

It was incredibly difficult to do research like that then.

Says you, backed by jack shit. And you're a known liar.

Show us the evidence. As I've demonstrated that the articles were accessible. You've got nothing but a batshit conspiracy backed by your imagination.

 

[Skylar]

Repeatedly answered- just a partisan idiot like you won't accept anything other than your own fantasy.

How would I find them- as I have said before:

• If I were Miriam Goodrich, I would find them in the New York Times- since she lived in the NY area- which would have brought Barack Obama to her attention in the first place.
• If I were Miriam Goodrich, I would find them in Columbia Today, since she got her Master's degree at Columbia, would get the alumni magazine, and which would have brought Barack Obama to her attention in the first place.
• If I was looking for additional information I would go to the New York Central Library and do basic research- I went to college in the 1980's- and even then there were indexes of articles on people- but the first place I would have looked at was "Who's Who in America".
• And if I was a literary agent who really wanted to know about all of the press on a person I would have contacted a press clipping service- which is what people did before the internet

Meanwhile- where is your evidence that Barack Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya

Day 11- and wait for Kaz to stop lying about Barack Obama continues.

Let's focus on your first bullet. How would you find it in the NY Times?

It's 1991, I give you a name. How would you find any articles about them in the NY Times?

The same way that Vanity Fair did when they cited the NY Times article about Obama in VF's 1990 piece about Obama.

Something you insist couldn't be done. Something Vanity Fair demonstrated most definitely could.

So...who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

Why would the literary agency agree to represent obama if they didn't know a thing about him?

Why wouldn't the literary agency have read all they could about the man before agreeing to represent him?

Keep running. You've got no answers. And we both know it

I'm glad you know what I think, thanks for letting me know.

I certainly know what sends you running:


Who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

Why would the literary agency agree to represent obama if they didn't know a thing about him?

Why wouldn't the literary agency have read all they could about the man before agreeing to represent him?

Tuck your tail back between those quivering haunches......and keep running. As neither your desperate rout nor the questions are going anywhere.

Vanity Fair could have done what I said, asked him.

That would have made them *aware* of the article. But not what it said. They cited the NY Times article.

You insist that this was something that couldn't be done in 1991. That there was no way to research articles, that the literary agency that represented Obama was neither aware nor had ever read any of the numerous articles about Obama in the NY Times, the LA Times, the Chicago Herald, Boston Globe or Vanity Fair.

Which is the stupidest fucking argument I've ever heard. Prove any of your batshit. As I've already demonstated that news articles were accessible.....as Vanity Fair irrefutably did exactly that. And it makes no sense. Why would they have agreed to represent Obama if they didn't know a damn thing about him?

How would they have even learned of Obama?

You can't say. So you flee. And I laugh. See how your rout works?

There is one possible source of his publisher saying he was born in Kenya, you can't say who besides him did that. And Miriam didn't cop to it, she just said she didn't "fact check" it

She said it was a simple mistake and that Obama never said he was born in Kenya. Remember, you can paraphrase her all you like. Any one here can just the actual quote:

This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time," Goderich wrote. "There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more."

And your little turd of a conspiracy is flushed.

What else have you got?

 

[Skylar]

Since your post has nothing to do with mine- I will just respond with my post again- since it is as accurate as before:

Kaz- So far the only lie we have clearly identified is your lie that Barack Obama said he was born in Kenya

Yet you have not even a theory of who else would make up that he was born in Kenya and put it in his bio without talking to him. All you have so far is it magically appeared and a flamingly incompetent researcher didn't bother to do her job and fact check a 90 word bio.

Do you imagine frequently that words just appear on paper and all humans have to do is fact check them? And since her own story is she flat out doesn't do her job, why would we believe her? I've never noticed any particular affinity for truth either lazy or incompetent people have. In fact it's generally the reverse

I don't need a 'theory' to explain how someone made a mistake. I see people make mistakes every day.

You say we can't believe Goodrich- who actually knows the facts- and then you make up a story about Barack Obama telling her that he was born in Kenya.

Why would we believe you? You have demonstrated over and over and over that you are fine with ignoring the facts and posting your own fantasy as a fact.

She didn't make a "mistake," fact checking was her job and she didn't fact a 90 word bio for basic facts. Why would be believe a self admitted idiot incompetent? And she didn't even say he didn't tell anyone at the firm, just he didn't tell some unnamed group of people she called "us." And she didn't say who did say he was born in Kenya. It was an explanation you could drive several trucks through. Why did she do that if he was innocent?

She said she did. She knows what happened- all you know is what she has told you. Everything else is the product of your fertile imagination.

You keep demanding that everyone else join in on your fantasy.

But it keeps coming back to this- there is absolutely no evidence that Barack Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya

And the only evidence we have is that he didn't tell Miriam Goodrich that he was born in Kenya

Laughing......nope. You did.

As your entire argument is predicated on the Literary Agency never reading any of the numerous articles about Obama in the NY Times, the LA Times, Vanity Fair, the Chicago Herald and others ....nor even being aware they exist. Nor having the slightest clue about his national media profile.

That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. Nor does it make the slightest sense.

Um....how would they have learned of Obama, who lived in Chicago.....while they're in NY? Why would they have agreed to represent Obama if they didn't know anything about him? Why wouldn't they have read all they could on the man before agreeing to represent him?

Laughing......you've painted yourself into a corner, Kaz. As your argument is bone stupid. And you know it.

You said that before, he wasn't interviewed about his background later, he was interviewed about it up front. He lied about Kenya when they hired him, not when they wrote the bio. That works, I already told you that. So we have established he was the original birther, just as I said

You pulling your pet theory out of your ass doesn't establish anything other than you pull crap out of your ass and call it a fact.

Here is a fact:

"There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii."

Here is a lie:

Kaz: So we have established he was the original birther, just as I said

That's not a "fact" that is a statement, and an intentionally ambiguous one

And you 'know' it was 'intentionally ambiguous' how?

From the same source that told you that Barack Obama told the publisher he was born in Kenya?

LOL

Here is a fact- this is a statement by a person who has first hand knowledge of what happened

"There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii."

Here is a lie- by someone who has no first hand knowledge, and is just claiming his fantasy is a fact.

Kaz: So we have established he was the original birther, just as I said

Nowhere did she say who wrote that he was born in Kenya, all she said was it was a "fact checking error." Did it appear out of the air?

She said it was a simple mistake 'by me'. And that Obama never said he was born in Kenya.

You try so hard to paraphrase your way out the corner you've painted yourself in. And her quote just destroys your horseshit every time:

This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time," Goderich wrote. "There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more."

And you've got jack shit to contradict anything she's said. Just you....citing your imagination.

And you're still nobody.

 

[Skylar]

So......time for you to run squealing, Kaz:

Who claims that Obama told them he was born in Kenya?

Why would the literary agency agree to represent obama if they didn't know a thing about him?

Why wouldn't the literary agency have read all they could about the man before agreeing to represent him?

 

[Seawytch]

From the news reports that brought Barack Obama to the agencies attention in the first place.

You confuse your refusing to accept anyone else's answer with not being given one.

Both Skylar and I have pointed out that the biographical information about Barack Obama was available in national media reports- the same reports which likely brought Barack Obama to their attention.

But what you still haven't provided is any proof for your claims that Barack Obama was the first Birther.

None- nada- zilch-zero.

So why do you keep making the same lies- over and over......?

Being in the "national media" doesn't answer the question. The national media is huge. You're begging the question still and just having it appear in your hands. Since you aren't talking to the author ...

How do you find it?

The same way Vanity Fair did when they referenced the NY Times article in their 1990 piece about Obama.

Something you insist can't be done. And Venity Fair demonstrates most definitely could be.

Now....the questions that send you screaming like the were carrying a butcher knife:

1) Who claims Obama told them he was born in Kenya?"

2) Why would they have agreed to represent Obama if they didn't know anything about him?

3) Why wouldn't they have read all they could on the man before agreeing to represent him?

You keep running, I'll keep laughing. You're always great for the endorphins!

you raise a good point sky, where did Kenya come from.

Apparently Miriam Goderich got the birth place of Barack Hussein Obama confused with the birth place of Barack Hussein Obama.

Why didn't she say that? Why is it suddenly speculation is OK when you are doing it?

Occam's razor. One is plausible, the other birther nonsense.