Trump thinks he can change the Constitution via EO

[Harpy Eagle]

Actually the exact opposite is true. I hope he tries to subvert the Constitution before the midterm. Manna from Heaven

I respectfully disagree. His base is so far gone they will NOT wake up if he tries to subvert the Constitution. They will continue to applaud because....MAGA!

------------------------------------------- Trump can't subvert the Constitution with an EO . Trump is just getting his thinking out in the public and signaling more actions after the Election . Its just a signal to his Deplorables Bode . [imo]

This isn't subverting the Constitution.

ok then, Obama could have nullified the 2nd amendment.

Trump isn't talking about repealing the 14th amendment.

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


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[ptbw forever]

I respectfully disagree. His base is so far gone they will NOT wake up if he tries to subvert the Constitution. They will continue to applaud because....MAGA!

------------------------------------------- Trump can't subvert the Constitution with an EO . Trump is just getting his thinking out in the public and signaling more actions after the Election . Its just a signal to his Deplorables Bode . [imo]

This isn't subverting the Constitution.

ok then, Obama could have nullified the 2nd amendment.

Trump isn't talking about repealing the 14th amendment.

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

No moron.

The 14th amendment has long since served its purpose and Ted Kennedy's stunt in the 60s doesn't change that.

 

[danielpalos]

nobody takes the right wing seriously about the law, Constitutional or otherwise.

Only voters in 30 states who entrusted us with confirming 2 new SCOTUS justices...ouch!

lol. even more reason to not take the right wing seriously. it requires an amendment.

Do something about it, stop losing elections.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage; and, unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, is being advanced on the left.

The left is advancing a plan for failure?

failure of what? higher paid labor pays more in taxes and creates more in demand. we have a First World economy. it is not inexpensive.

employers should not rely on cheap labor in a first world economy.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


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everything for the general warfare instead of the general welfare from the right wing.

Trump to end anchor babies, so much for Dem's plans to collude with Mexico to undermine US elections Trump just bitch slapped the left again. Good job Trump

No surprise you would be the biggest cheerleader for ignoring the Constitution. It has never meant much to you


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[Flash]

 

[ColonelAngus]

I just love how Trump makes the LEFT clutch their pearls on a daily basis.

 

[dudmuck]

------------------------------------------- Trump can't subvert the Constitution with an EO . Trump is just getting his thinking out in the public and signaling more actions after the Election . Its just a signal to his Deplorables Bode . [imo]

This isn't subverting the Constitution.

ok then, Obama could have nullified the 2nd amendment.

Trump isn't talking about repealing the 14th amendment.

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

No moron.

The 14th amendment has long since served its purpose and Ted Kennedy's stunt in the 60s doesn't change that.

We can then ignore the 2nd amendment, yay.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

No it isn't Moon Bat because the Heller and McDonald cases put the confusion about the meaning of well regulated and the silliness about the militia to rest.

The courts have also ruled on the interpretation of the Citizenship Clause:

"The fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. ... To hold that the fourteenth amendment of the constitution excludes from citizenship the children born in the United States of citizens or subjects of other countries, would be to deny citizenship to thousands of persons of English, Scotch, Irish, German, or other European parentage, who have always been considered and treated as citizens of the United States. -- United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898)
​

See also, Plyler v. Doe (1982):

"Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States.” ... No plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment ‘ jurisdiction’ can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful."
​

Both quotes taken from this article on the 14th amendment written by a Trump appointee to the 5th circuit court of appeals.

​

Nope. The 14th Amendment has been misinterpreted to include children of illegals. It's original intent was to grant citizenship to freed slaves in a counter move to head of Democrats attempts to maintain slavery in the South.

This isn't true either. The application of the amendment to immigrants was discussed at the time it was written, see for example quoted passages in this post, also taken from the above article.

All legal matters can be revisited by The Court.

 

[ptbw forever]

This isn't subverting the Constitution.

ok then, Obama could have nullified the 2nd amendment.

Trump isn't talking about repealing the 14th amendment.

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


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No moron.

The 14th amendment has long since served its purpose and Ted Kennedy's stunt in the 60s doesn't change that.

We can then ignore the 2nd amendment, yay.

No, idiot.

The 2nd amendment says that the citizens should be allowed to have arms to defend themselves.

The 14th amendment says that slaves are citizens. We no longer have slaves, therefore the 14th amendment is as irrelevant as the 18th amendment.

 

[well named]

All legal matters can be revisited by The Court.

Sure, interpreting the constitution is the court's job. But the principle of stare decisis is obviously important, otherwise why even have constitutional law? The entire purpose of the enterprise is that we believe it's valuable to have laws which are not subject to simple legislative or executive branch whims, but require a weightier process to amend. They give stability to society, and round off some of the rougher edges of our political process. I think all of us have reasons to believe this is a useful feature of our political system, and reasons to be wary of undermining it.

In any case, it's a bedrock constitutional principle. It's very unlikely that the court will allow 100+ years of precedent on the 14th amendment to be overturned by an executive order, for the same reason that it's unlikely that even a liberal supreme court would effectively overturn the 2nd amendment by reinterpreting it. There's not really much ambiguity in the meaning of the citizenship clause.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

All legal matters can be revisited by The Court.

Sure, interpreting the constitution is the court's job. But the principle of stare decisis is obviously important, otherwise why even have constitutional law? The entire purpose of the enterprise is that we believe it's valuable to have laws which are not subject to simple legislative or executive branch whims, but require a weightier process to amend. They give stability to society, and round off some of the rougher edges of our political process. I think all of us have reasons to believe this is a useful feature of our political system, and reasons to be wary of undermining it.

In any case, it's a bedrock constitutional principle. It's very unlikely that the court will allow 100+ years of precedent on the 14th amendment to be overturned by an executive order, for the same reason that it's unlikely that even a liberal supreme court would effectively overturn the 2nd amendment by reinterpreting it. There's not really much ambiguity in the meaning of the citizenship clause.

Stare decisis is indeed important, but it does not shackle the Court.

Of course the Court would not permit such a change via Executive Order. However, the matter can be revisited, and the original intent as expressed in the text can be analyzed and if found necessary be reiterated, as occurred in DC v. Heller.

The Constitution is not difficult to read for those with a modicum of education. Ambiguity generally develops over political aims.

 

[dudmuck]

ok then, Obama could have nullified the 2nd amendment.

Trump isn't talking about repealing the 14th amendment.

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


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No moron.

The 14th amendment has long since served its purpose and Ted Kennedy's stunt in the 60s doesn't change that.

We can then ignore the 2nd amendment, yay.

No, idiot.

The 2nd amendment says that the citizens should be allowed to have arms to defend themselves.

The 14th amendment says that slaves are citizens. We no longer have slaves, therefore the 14th amendment is as irrelevant as the 18th amendment.

The executive branch doesnt have authority of judicial branch: United States v. Wong Kim Ark

 

[Harpy Eagle]

------------------------------------------- Trump can't subvert the Constitution with an EO . Trump is just getting his thinking out in the public and signaling more actions after the Election . Its just a signal to his Deplorables Bode . [imo]

This isn't subverting the Constitution.

ok then, Obama could have nullified the 2nd amendment.

Trump isn't talking about repealing the 14th amendment.

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

No moron.

The 14th amendment has long since served its purpose and Ted Kennedy's stunt in the 60s doesn't change that.

Then it should be repealed, Ignoring it is not the correct solution.

 

[ptbw forever]

This isn't subverting the Constitution.

ok then, Obama could have nullified the 2nd amendment.

Trump isn't talking about repealing the 14th amendment.

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

No moron.

The 14th amendment has long since served its purpose and Ted Kennedy's stunt in the 60s doesn't change that.

Then it should be repealed, Ignoring it is not the correct solution.

He is not ignoring it because there is nothing to ignore.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

No, idiot.

The 2nd amendment says that the citizens should be allowed to have arms to defend themselves.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Nothing about defending themselves. It is remarkable how often you are wrong, in fact of all the things we have discussions about, you have never been right, not even once.

The 14th amendment says that slaves are citizens. We no longer have slaves, therefore the 14th amendment is as irrelevant as the 18th amendment.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Nothing about slaves, you are wrong yet again. Your track record is perfect! Good job.

You should be pushing for the 2nd to go away, there is no way that you utopia you described happens with guns present in society.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

ok then, Obama could have nullified the 2nd amendment.

Trump isn't talking about repealing the 14th amendment.

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

No moron.

The 14th amendment has long since served its purpose and Ted Kennedy's stunt in the 60s doesn't change that.

Then it should be repealed, Ignoring it is not the correct solution.

He is not ignoring it because there is nothing to ignore.

Yes, yes, there is.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

[ptbw forever]

Trump isn't talking about repealing the 14th amendment.

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

No moron.

The 14th amendment has long since served its purpose and Ted Kennedy's stunt in the 60s doesn't change that.

Then it should be repealed, Ignoring it is not the correct solution.

He is not ignoring it because there is nothing to ignore.

Yes, yes, there is.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

That was created fucking centuries ago before any modern technology to give the slaves official citizenship and to a lesser extent, the Native Americans.

To say that this applies to the kids of squatters today is more than insane.

Read the fucking 18th amendment and tell me that there is something there that we have to abide by as well.

 

[bodecea]

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


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No moron.

The 14th amendment has long since served its purpose and Ted Kennedy's stunt in the 60s doesn't change that.

Then it should be repealed, Ignoring it is not the correct solution.

He is not ignoring it because there is nothing to ignore.

Yes, yes, there is.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

That was created fucking centuries ago before any modern technology to give the slaves official citizenship and to a lesser extent, the Native Americans.

To say that this applies to the kids of squatters today is more than insane.

Read the fucking 18th amendment and tell me that there is something there that we have to abide by as well.

I guess you didn't get the word about the 18th Amendment.

 

[bodecea]

------------------------------------------- Trump can't subvert the Constitution with an EO . Trump is just getting his thinking out in the public and signaling more actions after the Election . Its just a signal to his Deplorables Bode . [imo]

This isn't subverting the Constitution.

ok then, Obama could have nullified the 2nd amendment.

Trump isn't talking about repealing the 14th amendment.

Just ignoring it, which is far worse.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

No moron.

The 14th amendment has long since served its purpose and Ted Kennedy's stunt in the 60s doesn't change that.

Are you asserting that the 14th Amendment has an expiration date?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

That was created fucking centuries ago before any modern technology to give the slaves official citizenship and to a lesser extent, the Native Americans.

To say that this applies to the kids of squatters today is more than insane.

Read the fucking 18th amendment and tell me that there is something there that we have to abide by as well.

It was created 79 years after the 2nd, so if age is what matters, you should be pushing for the 13 before it to be ignored as well.



The 18th amendment was repealed by the 21st Amendment to the Constitution.

That is what should happen to the 14th if you feel it is no longer valid.

You cannot just pick and choose which ones you want to ignore on any given day.