Trump, Trump supporters, Socialism, and the Economy

[Norman]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?.

You forgot to mention deregulation … how convenient.

REAL NEWS: Trump economy is unbeatable.

FAKE NEWS: This is because of Fed, and not because of Trump winning.

Trump is possibly the first president ever during whom money printer was turned off.

Once Trump wins in 2020 the deficit will get fixed, even more winning.

Which is why these threads fail. The OP begins with a straw man argument and challenges everyone else to keep it clean & civil. We truly live in bizarre times. Another poster on this thread once argued that comparisons between Trump and Obama are unfair because Trump has been treated "so well" by the Fed. Of course, when the truth was posted, the jig was up. The Fed rate began to rise virtually the day Trump won the election and JFTR, look where the rate was for virtually all of Obama's 2 terms:

I mentioned the three main drivers. You can add to them if you'd like.

The point remains, and you avoided it.

How convenient.
.

When you post something factually incorrect and get pointed out on it, you should own up to it and not play the usual deflection game and go on as if nothing happened.

 

[imawhosure]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.

DIFFERENCE-------------> anytime the Fed wants to, it can stop the greasing. Under Socialism, you create government programs for the masses that you can NEVER rescind!

 

[22lcidw]

Trump says it's good so it's good. That is the entirety of current conservative ideology.

So when the Progs take over and they say it, it is quite different.

 

[Mac1958]

That's not socialism.
C'mon, 58. You know better that that!

I fully agree that it isn't. I don't spray the word "socialism" around like the talk radio Trumpsters, any more than I spray around the word "racism" around like the Regressive Lefties do.

I'm just pointing out the obvious fact that Trumpsters are crowing over an economy being driven by actions they were so vehemently against just FOUR YEARS AGO.
.

 

[edthecynic]

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least,

Outstandingly FAKE you mean. Tramp's BLS is doing what he accused Obama of doing!
The number of employed actually went DOWN by 89,000 and the unemployed ROSE by 139,000. Don't take my word for it, check the actual DATA for employed and unemployed here: Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted
rather than the FAKE REPORT Tramp released, and notice the very last column, Change from last month, they are ALL blank!!!!! They were never left blank before!

 

[P@triot]

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

I can explain it. Two of your three “factors” (government spending) aren’t actually factors at all. It’s more pure bullshit from you. If they were factors, Venezuela would be the #1 economy in the world right now - instead of so destitute that they eat stray dogs and toilet paper is the number one item on the black market.

So you were right on one thing: your thread instantly “degenerated” into platitudes because your dumb ass started it with the platitude the government spending is the holy grail of economic prosperity.

 

[P@triot]

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least,

Outstandingly FAKE you mean.

Nobody dons their little tinfoil hat quite like cousin Eddie!

 

[Mac1958]

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

I can explain it. Two of your three “factors” (government spending) aren’t actually factors at all. It’s more pure bullshit from you. If they were factors, Venezuela would be the #1 economy in the world right now - instead of so destitute that they eat stray dogs and toilet paper is the number one item on the black market.

So you were right on one thing: your thread instantly “degenerated” into platitudes because your dumb ass started it with the platitude the government spending is the holy grail of economic prosperity.

So you're saying that a massive increase in government spending and Fed intervention are not stimulative?

Is that what I'm seeing?
.

 

[blackhawk]

First I don't support the Fed still pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system that was necessary after the big meltdown of 2008 I don't believe it still is today. My main objection to socialism is it takes power and choice away from the people and gives it to the government the more power the government gets the more it wants historically this has never worked out well for the people.

A civil, reasonable response. Thank you.

What this moment may show us is that economies are not binary - all government or no government. There's a point of equilibrium that must be met at any given time, for any given situation, and we have to keep our minds open to it.
.

I don't disagree that government has it's role in things even the economy but it needs to know that role and understand what it's capable of doing and what it's not. This is an over simplified example but when I see how bad it messed up something like the Iowa cacuss it makes me seriously ask do I want this same enity taking over healthcare.

 

[P@triot]

How will deficits get fixed?

By ridding the United States of the ignorant “tax and spend” leftists. Until then, it won’t get fixed.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

That's not socialism.
C'mon, 58. You know better that that!

I fully agree that it isn't. I don't spray the word "socialism" around like the talk radio Trumpsters, any more than I spray around the word "racism" around like the Regressive Lefties do.

I'm just pointing out the obvious fact that Trumpsters are crowing over an economy being driven by actions they were so vehemently against just FOUR YEARS AGO.
.

You know my theory.

The mere promise or hope of business-friendly tax policy and hope of deregulation are two HUGE factors above and beyond any government redirecting or money printing.

Government spending is no different than any other type of spending. The only difference is the government took that money at the point of a gun. Of course spending money in the economy stimulates the economy. Ijust believe it's unfair for the government to steal it from some people who earned it and spend it on somebody else who didn't earn it.

Government should encourage spending rather than doing the spending on behalf of the owner of said money via taxation.

.

 

[Mac1958]

First I don't support the Fed still pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system that was necessary after the big meltdown of 2008 I don't believe it still is today. My main objection to socialism is it takes power and choice away from the people and gives it to the government the more power the government gets the more it wants historically this has never worked out well for the people.

A civil, reasonable response. Thank you.

What this moment may show us is that economies are not binary - all government or no government. There's a point of equilibrium that must be met at any given time, for any given situation, and we have to keep our minds open to it.
.

I don't disagree that government has it's role in things even the economy but it needs to know that role and understand what it's capable of doing and what it's not. This is an over simplified example but when I see how bad it messed up something like the Iowa cacuss it makes me seriously ask do I want this same enity taking over healthcare.

Sure. A system this huge and complicated needs careful controls and monitoring. At all freaking times. Both business and government are run by people, and we sure have our weaknesses.
.

 

[SAYIT]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?.

You forgot to mention deregulation … how convenient.

REAL NEWS: Trump economy is unbeatable.

FAKE NEWS: This is because of Fed, and not because of Trump winning.

Trump is possibly the first president ever during whom money printer was turned off.

Once Trump wins in 2020 the deficit will get fixed, even more winning.

Which is why these threads fail. The OP begins with a straw man argument and challenges everyone else to keep it clean & civil. We truly live in bizarre times. Another poster on this thread once argued that comparisons between Trump and Obama are unfair because Trump has been treated "so well" by the Fed. Of course, when the truth was posted, the jig was up. The Fed rate began to rise virtually the day Trump won the election and JFTR, look where the rate was for virtually all of Obama's 2 terms:

Why is it that the greatest economy ever still has to pump billions and billions?

Is your argument that this is just the way the economy is now and it's never to stop?

Woo … so you never learn. The money supply must keep pace with economic output and according to the FRED graph above, it has done exactly that. Too many dollars cause inflation and we have almost none.

And do you have any idea how silly that "economy stinks" argument sounds at this point? Even "Trump is a mean poppy-head" is more credible.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.

I’m against socialism for the exact things you’re posting about here. It’s not sustainable.

By your own admission you are acknowledging this reality. Although I think you meant it to be a pro socialism post but I’ll play along for a bit.

Of the three issues you brought up which one would you like to see reversed first?

Raise taxes.
Reign in the FED.
Cut spending.

 

[SAYIT]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?.

You forgot to mention deregulation … how convenient.

REAL NEWS: Trump economy is unbeatable.

FAKE NEWS: This is because of Fed, and not because of Trump winning.

Trump is possibly the first president ever during whom money printer was turned off.

Once Trump wins in 2020 the deficit will get fixed, even more winning.

Which is why these threads fail. The OP begins with a straw man argument and challenges everyone else to keep it clean & civil. We truly live in bizarre times. Another poster on this thread once argued that comparisons between Trump and Obama are unfair because Trump has been treated "so well" by the Fed. Of course, when the truth was posted, the jig was up. The Fed rate began to rise virtually the day Trump won the election and JFTR, look where the rate was for virtually all of Obama's 2 terms:

I mentioned the three main drivers. You can add to them if you'd like.

The point remains, and you avoided it.

How convenient.
.

When you post something factually incorrect and get pointed out on it, you should own up to it and not play the usual deflection game and go on as if nothing happened.

But that's what they do. Just minutes ago PKNopp posted "Why is it that the greatest economy ever still has to pump billions and billions" as if that straw man has not been exposed. They are like unthinking broken records or even Rainman … "Thirteen minutes to Judge Wapner and The People's Court."

 

[Mac1958]

When I start threads like this and ask questions like this, a little part of me always wonders if I've missed something, and if someone will be able to completely blow my premise out of the water.

So far, that's not happening. "Fake News" appears to be the Borg's response.
.

 

[edthecynic]

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least,

Outstandingly FAKE you mean.

Nobody dons their little tinfoil hat quite like cousin Eddie!

You obviously didn't click on the data link I provided, and YOU edited out, and did the math yourself since the BLS didn't do it this time knowing Trumpists are to lazy and ignorant to do simple arithmetic!
So here are the actual numbers from the actual data rather than the FAKE REPORT:
Employed Dec 158,803,000
Employed Jan 158,714,000
A DECREASE of 89,000 in the total number employed.
Unemployed Dec 5,753,000
Unemployed Jan 5,892,000
An INCREASE of 139,000
The link you deleted to check the numbers:
Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

When I start threads like this and ask questions like this, a little part of me always wonders if I've missed something, and if someone will be able to completely blow my premise out of the water.

So far, that's not happening. "Fake News" appears to be the Borg's response.
.

You don't agree that general spending, regardless of whether it's government spending or private spending, is a huge boost to the economy?

 

[edthecynic]

When I start threads like this and ask questions like this, a little part of me always wonders if I've missed something, and if someone will be able to completely blow my premise out of the water.

So far, that's not happening. "Fake News" appears to be the Borg's response.
.

So you didn't click on the link to the actual data, no surprise there!
Prove my NUMBERS wrong before you pat yourself on the back!

 

[Norman]

When I start threads like this and ask questions like this, a little part of me always wonders if I've missed something, and if someone will be able to completely blow my premise out of the water.

So far, that's not happening. "Fake News" appears to be the Borg's response.
.

Deflection is always your response.

The money printers have been turned off under Trump, that is the fact.

Better question is why you always go out of your way to see anything related to Trump in a negative light.