Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Yes, I don't want a high degree of socialism, I don't want Bernie in there. I'm a capitalist.I’m against socialism for the exact things you’re posting about here. It’s not sustainable.I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.
Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.
While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.
The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.
Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.
So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.
Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.
By your own admission you are acknowledging this reality. Although I think you meant it to be a pro socialism post but I’ll play along for a bit.
Of the three issues you brought up which one would you like to see reversed first?
Raise taxes.
Reign in the FED.
Cut spending.
Massive government spending isn't only done in a Socialist state.Correct! And we're nowhere near that.I think you need to look up what socialism means.I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.
Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.
While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.
The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.
Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.
So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.
Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.
Socialism is the government takeover of energy, food production, and the eventual elimination of private ownership of businesses.
Socialism isn't free stuff. That's just the hook that people fall for to get Socialism in place.
Why do Trumpsters keep screaming it?
And are you going to respond to my question?
.
Consumer debt is what really drives growth in the economy. A whole lot of people are taking on debt at record levels. Taking on debt requires people to be confident that they will be able to pay it off for years into the future. That takes faith.Faith in the economy and American capitalism must be maintained at any cost. That is the only economic philosophy at work right now.Obama did the only thing he could do: He stood back as the Fed pumped $4.5T into markets.Actually the process is, talk radio says it's good, then Trump says it's good, then the Trumpsters say it's good.
Any issue. Any topic. Doesn't matter.
.
Sadly Obama supporters defended him inflating the economy in the same way Trump is.
That was digging us out of a catastrophe. This is happening in a non-recessionary period, something Keynes himself would have opposed.
.
Faith in the economy is long gone.
I know I'm not going to get an informed, honest opinion from you. You've made that clear. Again.When I start threads like this and ask questions like this, a little part of me always wonders if I've missed something, and if someone will be able to completely blow my premise out of the water.
So far, that's not happening. "Fake News" appears to be the Borg's response.
.
Deflection is always your response.
The money printers have been turned off under Trump, that is the fact.
Better question is why you always go out of your way to see anything related to Trump in a negative light.
Yes, I don't want a high degree of socialism, I don't want Bernie in there. I'm a capitalist.I’m against socialism for the exact things you’re posting about here. It’s not sustainable.I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.
Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.
While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.
The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.
Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.
So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.
Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.
By your own admission you are acknowledging this reality. Although I think you meant it to be a pro socialism post but I’ll play along for a bit.
Of the three issues you brought up which one would you like to see reversed first?
Raise taxes.
Reign in the FED.
Cut spending.
And yes, the three solutions you provide would be correct.
The point is, the crowing about a good economy being driven (at least in part) by what many on the Right call "socialism".
I hope this period will open a few eyes to the obvious, that the economy is not binary, it's about a proper equilibrium.
.
.
I know I'm not going to get an informed, honest opinion from you. You've made that clear. Again.When I start threads like this and ask questions like this, a little part of me always wonders if I've missed something, and if someone will be able to completely blow my premise out of the water.
So far, that's not happening. "Fake News" appears to be the Borg's response.
.
Deflection is always your response.
The money printers have been turned off under Trump, that is the fact.
Better question is why you always go out of your way to see anything related to Trump in a negative light.
The leg-humping really isn't necessary.
.
I didn't read your post because, like the Trumpsters, you didn't directly address the question.So you didn't click on the link to the actual data, no surprise there!When I start threads like this and ask questions like this, a little part of me always wonders if I've missed something, and if someone will be able to completely blow my premise out of the water.
So far, that's not happening. "Fake News" appears to be the Borg's response.
.
Prove my NUMBERS wrong before you pat yourself on the back!
One of your drivers - "the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system" - has been shown to be a strawman yet you ignore that and continue to drift blithely into the haze. The economy is in balance which is the job of the Fed. Our increasing productivity - the real economic driver - requires increased money supply. If inflation shows its head the Fed will tighten as they did the moment Trump was elected.I mentioned the three main drivers. You can add to them if you'd like.You forgot to mention deregulation … how convenient.I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.
Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.
While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.
The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.
Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.
So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.
Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?.
Which is why these threads fail. The OP begins with a straw man argument and challenges everyone else to keep it clean & civil. We truly live in bizarre times. Another poster on this thread once argued that comparisons between Trump and Obama are unfair because Trump has been treated "so well" by the Fed. Of course, when the truth was posted, the jig was up. The Fed rate began to rise virtually the day Trump won the election and JFTR, look where the rate was for virtually all of Obama's 2 terms:REAL NEWS: Trump economy is unbeatable.
FAKE NEWS: This is because of Fed, and not because of Trump winning.
Trump is possibly the first president ever during whom money printer was turned off.
Once Trump wins in 2020 the deficit will get fixed, even more winning.
The point remains, and you avoided it.
How convenient.
.
C'mon, 58. I pointed out the flaw. Spending in general boosts the economy, not government spending.Yes, I don't want a high degree of socialism, I don't want Bernie in there. I'm a capitalist.I’m against socialism for the exact things you’re posting about here. It’s not sustainable.I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.
Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.
While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.
The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.
Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.
So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.
Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.
By your own admission you are acknowledging this reality. Although I think you meant it to be a pro socialism post but I’ll play along for a bit.
Of the three issues you brought up which one would you like to see reversed first?
Raise taxes.
Reign in the FED.
Cut spending.
And yes, the three solutions you provide would be correct.
The point is, the crowing about a good economy being driven (at least in part) by what many on the Right call "socialism".
I hope this period will open a few eyes to the obvious, that the economy is not binary, it's about a proper equilibrium.
.
.
Woo … so you never learn. The money supply must keep pace with economic output and according to the FRED graph above, it has done exactly that. Too many dollars cause inflation and we have almost none.You forgot to mention deregulation … how convenient.I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.
Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.
While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.
The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.
Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.
So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.
Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?.
Which is why these threads fail. The OP begins with a straw man argument and challenges everyone else to keep it clean & civil. We truly live in bizarre times. Another poster on this thread once argued that comparisons between Trump and Obama are unfair because Trump has been treated "so well" by the Fed. Of course, when the truth was posted, the jig was up. The Fed rate began to rise virtually the day Trump won the election and JFTR, look where the rate was for virtually all of Obama's 2 terms:REAL NEWS: Trump economy is unbeatable.
FAKE NEWS: This is because of Fed, and not because of Trump winning.
Trump is possibly the first president ever during whom money printer was turned off.
Once Trump wins in 2020 the deficit will get fixed, even more winning.
Why is it that the greatest economy ever still has to pump billions and billions?
Is your argument that this is just the way the economy is now and it's never to stop?
And do you have any idea how silly that "economy stinks" argument sounds at this point? Even "Trump is a mean poppy-head" is more credible.
I guess you didn't "see" the proof I provided.One of your drivers - "the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system" - has been shown to be a strawman yet you ignore that and continue to drift blithely into the haze. The economy is in balance which is the job of the Fed. Our increasing productivity - the real economic driver - requires increased money supply. If inflation shows its head the Fed will tighten as they did the moment Trump was elected.I mentioned the three main drivers. You can add to them if you'd like.You forgot to mention deregulation … how convenient.I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.
Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.
While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.
The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.
Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.
So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.
Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?.
Which is why these threads fail. The OP begins with a straw man argument and challenges everyone else to keep it clean & civil. We truly live in bizarre times. Another poster on this thread once argued that comparisons between Trump and Obama are unfair because Trump has been treated "so well" by the Fed. Of course, when the truth was posted, the jig was up. The Fed rate began to rise virtually the day Trump won the election and JFTR, look where the rate was for virtually all of Obama's 2 terms:REAL NEWS: Trump economy is unbeatable.
FAKE NEWS: This is because of Fed, and not because of Trump winning.
Trump is possibly the first president ever during whom money printer was turned off.
Once Trump wins in 2020 the deficit will get fixed, even more winning.
The point remains, and you avoided it.
How convenient.
.
And more lies.Trump's tax cuts and regulation cuts are socialism now? Please...
Quote me saying that.
At least you guys are consistent - you don't quote, you just make stuff up.
.
You didn’t answer my question. Prioritize the three choices. Which one do you take on first.Yes, I don't want a high degree of socialism, I don't want Bernie in there. I'm a capitalist.I’m against socialism for the exact things you’re posting about here. It’s not sustainable.I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.
Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.
While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.
The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.
Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.
So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.
Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.
By your own admission you are acknowledging this reality. Although I think you meant it to be a pro socialism post but I’ll play along for a bit.
Of the three issues you brought up which one would you like to see reversed first?
Raise taxes.
Reign in the FED.
Cut spending.
And yes, the three solutions you provide would be correct.
The point is, the crowing about a good economy being driven (at least in part) by what many on the Right call "socialism".
I hope this period will open a few eyes to the obvious, that the economy is not binary, it's about a proper equilibrium.
.
.
I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.
Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.
While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.
The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.
Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.
So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.
Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.
I don't know why it matters, since it's a moot point.You didn’t answer my question. Prioritize the three choices. Which one do you take on first.Yes, I don't want a high degree of socialism, I don't want Bernie in there. I'm a capitalist.I’m against socialism for the exact things you’re posting about here. It’s not sustainable.I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.
Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.
While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.
The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.
Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.
So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.
Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.
By your own admission you are acknowledging this reality. Although I think you meant it to be a pro socialism post but I’ll play along for a bit.
Of the three issues you brought up which one would you like to see reversed first?
Raise taxes.
Reign in the FED.
Cut spending.
And yes, the three solutions you provide would be correct.
The point is, the crowing about a good economy being driven (at least in part) by what many on the Right call "socialism".
I hope this period will open a few eyes to the obvious, that the economy is not binary, it's about a proper equilibrium.
.
.
Have to take back the house, and when Nan from San Fransicko gives up the gavel, you will see spending cuts...Cutting the Federal government in 1/2 and stop paying welfare to shitfucks who sit on the lazy liberal butts. It isnt a revenue problem, it is a government spending problem.
Well, Trump sure as hell is not going to do that.
This year we are taking in the largest tax revenues ever. Liberal policies are spending 1 trillion more. 1 trillion dollars gets paid to the War on Poverty. Stop paying for that endless war, the budget is balanced.
It is not just Liberal policies, both parties are big spending parties, neither have any desire to cut spending, the only disagreement is where the money should be spent.
To me it comes down to this government can and does do a lot of things but how many of them do they do in an efficien cost effective way.Sure. A system this huge and complicated needs careful controls and monitoring. At all freaking times. Both business and government are run by people, and we sure have our weaknesses.I don't disagree that government has it's role in things even the economy but it needs to know that role and understand what it's capable of doing and what it's not. This is an over simplified example but when I see how bad it messed up something like the Iowa cacuss it makes me seriously ask do I want this same enity taking over healthcare.A civil, reasonable response. Thank you.First I don't support the Fed still pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system that was necessary after the big meltdown of 2008 I don't believe it still is today. My main objection to socialism is it takes power and choice away from the people and gives it to the government the more power the government gets the more it wants historically this has never worked out well for the people.
What this moment may show us is that economies are not binary - all government or no government. There's a point of equilibrium that must be met at any given time, for any given situation, and we have to keep our minds open to it.
.
.
Yeah, that's another thing: We have to increase government efficiencies. Seems to me we should be placing a high priority on that, but I never see it.To me it comes down to this government can and does do a lot of things but how many of them do they do in an efficien cost effective way.Sure. A system this huge and complicated needs careful controls and monitoring. At all freaking times. Both business and government are run by people, and we sure have our weaknesses.I don't disagree that government has it's role in things even the economy but it needs to know that role and understand what it's capable of doing and what it's not. This is an over simplified example but when I see how bad it messed up something like the Iowa cacuss it makes me seriously ask do I want this same enity taking over healthcare.A civil, reasonable response. Thank you.First I don't support the Fed still pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system that was necessary after the big meltdown of 2008 I don't believe it still is today. My main objection to socialism is it takes power and choice away from the people and gives it to the government the more power the government gets the more it wants historically this has never worked out well for the people.
What this moment may show us is that economies are not binary - all government or no government. There's a point of equilibrium that must be met at any given time, for any given situation, and we have to keep our minds open to it.
.
.
Consumer debt to GDP ratio has been declining for over a decade:Consumer debt is what really drives growth in the economy. A whole lot of people are taking on debt at record levels. Taking on debt requires people to be confident that they will be able to pay it off for years into the future. That takes faith.Faith in the economy and American capitalism must be maintained at any cost. That is the only economic philosophy at work right now.Obama did the only thing he could do: He stood back as the Fed pumped $4.5T into markets.Actually the process is, talk radio says it's good, then Trump says it's good, then the Trumpsters say it's good.
Any issue. Any topic. Doesn't matter.
.
Sadly Obama supporters defended him inflating the economy in the same way Trump is.
That was digging us out of a catastrophe. This is happening in a non-recessionary period, something Keynes himself would have opposed.
.
Faith in the economy is long gone.
