Trump, Trump supporters, Socialism, and the Economy

[Norman]

Except as the chart I posted shows, that is not happening.

Why are you continuing with the fake news? The so called "QE" is only to put in back some money that was removed.

Tiring with Mac that when some of the fake information he spreads gets corrected, nothing happens. He just pretends that the money printer was howling the whole time as under Obama.

I know. "Fake News". I get it.

Maybe someone else will try to answer.

Not looking good so far, though.
.

This is the real Fed balance sheet Mac.

You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between fake news and real news. Fake news is what you posted, that Fed is printing like never before under Trump... well not completely fake news, this possibly is the first president ever with DECREASING Fed balance sheet.

Mac did not say that the Fed is printing like never before under Trump.

That was his implication...

Mac is fake news.

That is not how I read it. Your knee jerk reaction to defend Trump to your dying breath gets in the way of you being logical or reasonable.

Mac said that hundreds of billions of dollars are poured into the system.

This has not happened under Trump, it is fake news.

 

[pknopp]

Obama did the only thing he could do: He stood back as the Fed pumped $4.5T into markets.

That was digging us out of a catastrophe. This is happening in a non-recessionary period, something Keynes himself would have opposed.
.

Except as the chart I posted shows, that is not happening.

Why are you continuing with the fake news? The so called "QE" is only to put in back some money that was removed.

Tiring with Mac that when some of the fake information he spreads gets corrected, nothing happens. He just pretends that the money printer was howling the whole time as under Obama.

I know. "Fake News". I get it.

Maybe someone else will try to answer.

Not looking good so far, though.
.

This is the real Fed balance sheet Mac.

You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between fake news and real news. Fake news is what you posted, that Fed is printing like never before under Trump... well not completely fake news, this possibly is the first president ever with DECREASING Fed balance sheet.

Mac did not say that the Fed is printing like never before under Trump.

That was his implication...

Mac is fake news. What clearly happened is he saw one of those stories about the FED expanding its balance sheet and unfortunately has no sense of proportions. Then you look at the real data and it looks different than what CNN or whatever he read proclaims.

Your graph shows it is expanding. Your argument is "no, it's only expanding to what it was".

First, that is not sustainable and second, you are assuming it's going to stop.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Cutting the Federal government in 1/2 and stop paying welfare to shitfucks who sit on the lazy liberal butts. It isnt a revenue problem, it is a government spending problem.

Well, Trump sure as hell is not going to do that.

This year we are taking in the largest tax revenues ever. Liberal policies are spending 1 trillion more. 1 trillion dollars gets paid to the War on Poverty. Stop paying for that endless war, the budget is balanced.

It is not just Liberal policies, both parties are big spending parties, neither have any desire to cut spending, the only disagreement is where the money should be spent.

 

[Norman]

Except as the chart I posted shows, that is not happening.

Why are you continuing with the fake news? The so called "QE" is only to put in back some money that was removed.

Tiring with Mac that when some of the fake information he spreads gets corrected, nothing happens. He just pretends that the money printer was howling the whole time as under Obama.

I know. "Fake News". I get it.

Maybe someone else will try to answer.

Not looking good so far, though.
.

This is the real Fed balance sheet Mac.

You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between fake news and real news. Fake news is what you posted, that Fed is printing like never before under Trump... well not completely fake news, this possibly is the first president ever with DECREASING Fed balance sheet.

Mac did not say that the Fed is printing like never before under Trump.

That was his implication...

Mac is fake news. What clearly happened is he saw one of those stories about the FED expanding its balance sheet and unfortunately has no sense of proportions. Then you look at the real data and it looks different than what CNN or whatever he read proclaims.

Your graph shows it is expanding. Your argument is "no, it's only expanding to what it was".

First, that is not sustainable and second, you are assuming it's going to stop.

The graph shows that it has decreased under Trump, even with the newest "QE".

 

[pknopp]

I know. "Fake News". I get it.

Maybe someone else will try to answer.

Not looking good so far, though.
.

This is the real Fed balance sheet Mac.

You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between fake news and real news. Fake news is what you posted, that Fed is printing like never before under Trump... well not completely fake news, this possibly is the first president ever with DECREASING Fed balance sheet.

Mac did not say that the Fed is printing like never before under Trump.

That was his implication...

Mac is fake news.

That is not how I read it. Your knee jerk reaction to defend Trump to your dying breath gets in the way of you being logical or reasonable.

Mac said that hundreds of billions of dollars are poured into the system.

This has not happened under Trump, it is fake news.

The Fed is pumping $160 billion PER DAY into US banks — this hasn't happened since 2008

 

[occupied]

Trump says it's good so it's good. That is the entirety of current conservative ideology.

Actually the process is, talk radio says it's good, then Trump says it's good, then the Trumpsters say it's good.

Any issue. Any topic. Doesn't matter.
.

Sadly Obama supporters defended him inflating the economy in the same way Trump is.

Obama did the only thing he could do: He stood back as the Fed pumped $4.5T into markets.

That was digging us out of a catastrophe. This is happening in a non-recessionary period, something Keynes himself would have opposed.
.

Faith in the economy and American capitalism must be maintained at any cost. That is the only economic philosophy at work right now.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Cutting the Federal government in 1/2 and stop paying welfare to shitfucks who sit on the lazy liberal butts. It isnt a revenue problem, it is a government spending problem.

Well, Trump sure as hell is not going to do that.

This year we are taking in the largest tax revenues ever. Liberal policies are spending 1 trillion more. 1 trillion dollars gets paid to the War on Poverty. Stop paying for that endless war, the budget is balanced.

It is not just Liberal policies, both parties are big spending parties, neither have any desire to cut spending, the only disagreement is where the money should be spent.

Have to take back the house, and when Nan from San Fransicko gives up the gavel, you will see spending cuts...

 

[pknopp]

I know. "Fake News". I get it.

Maybe someone else will try to answer.

Not looking good so far, though.
.

This is the real Fed balance sheet Mac.

You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between fake news and real news. Fake news is what you posted, that Fed is printing like never before under Trump... well not completely fake news, this possibly is the first president ever with DECREASING Fed balance sheet.

Mac did not say that the Fed is printing like never before under Trump.

That was his implication...

Mac is fake news. What clearly happened is he saw one of those stories about the FED expanding its balance sheet and unfortunately has no sense of proportions. Then you look at the real data and it looks different than what CNN or whatever he read proclaims.

Your graph shows it is expanding. Your argument is "no, it's only expanding to what it was".

First, that is not sustainable and second, you are assuming it's going to stop.

The graph shows that it has decreased under Trump, even with the newest "QE".

It shows it is increasing.

 

[blackhawk]

First I don't support the Fed still pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system that was necessary after the big meltdown of 2008 I don't believe it still is today. My main objection to socialism is it takes power and choice away from the people and gives it to the government the more power the government gets the more it wants historically this has never worked out well for the people.

 

[pknopp]

Trump says it's good so it's good. That is the entirety of current conservative ideology.

Actually the process is, talk radio says it's good, then Trump says it's good, then the Trumpsters say it's good.

Any issue. Any topic. Doesn't matter.
.

Sadly Obama supporters defended him inflating the economy in the same way Trump is.

Obama did the only thing he could do: He stood back as the Fed pumped $4.5T into markets.

That was digging us out of a catastrophe. This is happening in a non-recessionary period, something Keynes himself would have opposed.
.

Faith in the economy and American capitalism must be maintained at any cost. That is the only economic philosophy at work right now.

Faith in the economy is long gone.

 

[pknopp]

Cutting the Federal government in 1/2 and stop paying welfare to shitfucks who sit on the lazy liberal butts. It isnt a revenue problem, it is a government spending problem.

Well, Trump sure as hell is not going to do that.

This year we are taking in the largest tax revenues ever. Liberal policies are spending 1 trillion more. 1 trillion dollars gets paid to the War on Poverty. Stop paying for that endless war, the budget is balanced.

It is not just Liberal policies, both parties are big spending parties, neither have any desire to cut spending, the only disagreement is where the money should be spent.

Have to take back the house, and when Nan from San Fransicko gives up the gavel, you will see spending cuts...

The (R)'s had the House and Senate under Trump. We saw more debt.

 

[Norman]

This is the real Fed balance sheet Mac.

You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between fake news and real news. Fake news is what you posted, that Fed is printing like never before under Trump... well not completely fake news, this possibly is the first president ever with DECREASING Fed balance sheet.

Mac did not say that the Fed is printing like never before under Trump.

That was his implication...

Mac is fake news.

That is not how I read it. Your knee jerk reaction to defend Trump to your dying breath gets in the way of you being logical or reasonable.

Mac said that hundreds of billions of dollars are poured into the system.

This has not happened under Trump, it is fake news.

The Fed is pumping $160 billion PER DAY into US banks — this hasn't happened since 2008

They are reverting the money supply to the level it was at the start of the presidency.

So what...

 

[Mac1958]

First I don't support the Fed still pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system that was necessary after the big meltdown of 2008 I don't believe it still is today. My main objection to socialism is it takes power and choice away from the people and gives it to the government the more power the government gets the more it wants historically this has never worked out well for the people.

A civil, reasonable response. Thank you.

What this moment may show us is that economies are not binary - all government or no government. There's a point of equilibrium that must be met at any given time, for any given situation, and we have to keep our minds open to it.
.

 

[pknopp]

First I don't support the Fed still pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system that was necessary after the big meltdown of 2008 I don't believe it still is today. My main objection to socialism is it takes power and choice away from the people and gives it to the government the more power the government gets the more it wants historically this has never worked out well for the people.

It doesn't matter if you support it. It is happening. Who has the power? The one that creates billions out of nothing?

 

[pknopp]

Mac did not say that the Fed is printing like never before under Trump.

That was his implication...

Mac is fake news.

That is not how I read it. Your knee jerk reaction to defend Trump to your dying breath gets in the way of you being logical or reasonable.

Mac said that hundreds of billions of dollars are poured into the system.

This has not happened under Trump, it is fake news.

The Fed is pumping $160 billion PER DAY into US banks — this hasn't happened since 2008

They are reverting the money supply to the level it was at the start of the presidency.

So what...

Who says that's where it stops? If it doesn't are you no longer going to support Trump?

Or are you going to continue to support this massive socialist program?

 

[SAYIT]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?.

You forgot to mention deregulation … how convenient.

REAL NEWS: Trump economy is unbeatable.

FAKE NEWS: This is because of Fed, and not because of Trump winning.

Trump is possibly the first president ever during whom money printer was turned off.

Once Trump wins in 2020 the deficit will get fixed, even more winning.

Which is why these threads fail. The OP begins with a straw man argument and challenges everyone else to keep it clean & civil. We truly live in bizarre times. Another poster on this thread once argued that comparisons between Trump and Obama are unfair because Trump has been treated "so well" by the Fed. Of course, when the truth was posted, the jig was up. The Fed rate began to rise virtually the day Trump won the election and JFTR, look where the rate was for virtually all of Obama's 2 terms:

 

[pknopp]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?.

You forgot to mention deregulation … how convenient.

REAL NEWS: Trump economy is unbeatable.

FAKE NEWS: This is because of Fed, and not because of Trump winning.

Trump is possibly the first president ever during whom money printer was turned off.

Once Trump wins in 2020 the deficit will get fixed, even more winning.

Which is why these threads fail. The OP begins with a straw man argument and challenges everyone else to keep it clean & civil. We truly live in bizarre times. Another poster on this thread once argued that comparisons between Trump and Obama are unfair because Trump has been treated "so well" by the Fed. Of course, when the truth was posted, the jig was up. The Fed rate began to rise virtually the day Trump won the election and JFTR, look where the rate was for virtually all of Obama's 2 terms:

Why is it that the greatest economy ever still has to pump billions and billions?

Is your argument that this is just the way the economy is now and it's never to stop?

 

[Mac1958]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?.

You forgot to mention deregulation … how convenient.

REAL NEWS: Trump economy is unbeatable.

FAKE NEWS: This is because of Fed, and not because of Trump winning.

Trump is possibly the first president ever during whom money printer was turned off.

Once Trump wins in 2020 the deficit will get fixed, even more winning.

Which is why these threads fail. The OP begins with a straw man argument and challenges everyone else to keep it clean & civil. We truly live in bizarre times. Another poster on this thread once argued that comparisons between Trump and Obama are unfair because Trump has been treated "so well" by the Fed. Of course, when the truth was posted, the jig was up. The Fed rate began to rise virtually the day Trump won the election and JFTR, look where the rate was for virtually all of Obama's 2 terms:

I mentioned the three main drivers. You can add to them if you'd like.

The point remains, and you avoided it.

How convenient.
.

 

[occupied]

Trump says it's good so it's good. That is the entirety of current conservative ideology.

Actually the process is, talk radio says it's good, then Trump says it's good, then the Trumpsters say it's good.

Any issue. Any topic. Doesn't matter.
.

Sadly Obama supporters defended him inflating the economy in the same way Trump is.

Obama did the only thing he could do: He stood back as the Fed pumped $4.5T into markets.

That was digging us out of a catastrophe. This is happening in a non-recessionary period, something Keynes himself would have opposed.
.

Faith in the economy and American capitalism must be maintained at any cost. That is the only economic philosophy at work right now.

Faith in the economy is long gone.

Consumer debt is what really drives growth in the economy. A whole lot of people are taking on debt at record levels. Taking on debt requires people to be confident that they will be able to pay it off for years into the future. That takes faith.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.

That's not socialism.

C'mon, 58. You know better than that!

.